Escape to the Movies: Red State

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Kevin Smith has admitted he's just about done making movies and would rather have a radio gig/podcasts. He likes telling stories and the stories he wants. So, Bob doesn't need to worry about it. Smith will be done making movies soon enough if that's what Bob wants him to do.

(All the info is from Unmasked with Ron Bennington: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBLUJUeTlcg)

Bob, the only time I've ever seen the Thomas Transformer is in a review of it by Ashens, from what I gather, the toy is only sold in the UK store chain, Poundland. Apparently it fall's apart the second you put it together.

Why do Americans make conservative states red, and liberal ones blue?

the action part of the movie sucks more than it should do.
most of it is someone pointing a gun out the window and shooting but we never see what they are shooting at. except a brief cut once or twice showing a cop geting shot and the scene is like 30mins long.

also the movie lost its way before this action scene, i think it did it when they find a load of guns in that room because it looses its hostel style survival horror plot

god im so disapointed.
the shit hit the fan on this one. literally!!! the movie is a mess.

The Gentleman:

therockdemon:
i really hope that bob reviews a good movie next time, it's not like there isn't any out there

Like...?

On topic (kind of): It looks like someone found the Venture Brothers clips...

"Shore Leave would have this sh*t sorted out in ten minutes tops"

Damn straight he would.

A want a Shore Leave ultra violence revenge movie, co-staring the Alchemist.

Oh, I thought the "Red" in the title meaned blood or violence...
Nice review Bob!

Finally, a movie about the most horrifying monster of all... Christianity!

MBE:
Holy cow! Moviebob surprised the heck out of me. I was 100% sure that Moviebob was going to LOOOOOVE Saint Kevin Smith's "Red State". It has everything a Leftist propaganda film needs.... The villains are non-Democrat Christian heterosexual psychotic murderers who have to be "pacified" by Dear Leader's stormtroopers.

Oh shut up. Nobody wants to hear your ridiculous ad hominems.

A wise man once said:

MOVIES

ARE

WEIRD!!

Red Rum:
Finally, a movie about the most horrifying monster of all... Christianity!

At least christians don't threaten to kill you for writing books or actually kills you for making a movie about their religion...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and blame weed. Because someone has to.

Seriously, look at all those free living bohemian types, where there is a big crossover with the anti-establishment "weed isn't a dangerous drug". And then 10-20 years later there they are, crazy as fuck. Smith is joining the ranks of Lucas, the Wachowski Brothers and many other artists who have completely lost it.

I get it, weed has been oversold in such works as "Reefer Madness" but that's become a straw-man, I don't think weed is good for the long term mental health of artists. And it's subtle, the effect.

I am very much against medicating for ANYTHING, I've seen too many people who start trying to use chemicals to guide their lives and ended up taking them where they didn't want to go.

Apologies

Jennacide:
I really do wonder what's going on with Smith. Clerks 2 was great, but was surrounded by juvenile or piss poor movies by him for the past 8 years.

uberhippy:

(ps, get friends & have a 'the Room / Danny Wiseau appreciation night' and laugh thy selves to tears!!)

It's Tommy Wiseau. Denny was the completely pointless creeper that liked to watch Johnny get it on.

Either way, yes. Everyone should at least attempt to watch The Room. Not everyone will appreciate it, but goddam if it isn't a gem of complete shit in how absurdly bad it is.

-------------
Apologies, I was actually talking to a friend at the time about the room and the pointlessness of Denny and just named-mixed-up-thing.

But indeed, I'd wager most of the cast are pointless and could have been ommitted.. Or for what its worth I'd just love to see Tommy do a 2-hour, one man show of the room,, utter brilliance.

(must also Point out that Birdemic, also a must watch, as well as its honest-to-god sequal, 'Birdemic II: The Resurection'!(different director/cast tho :( ))

Oh come on, you can review crap like this and not Senna?!

Give me a break, review the damned documentary already!

Any 'Big-picture' fans notice that once again bob has reverted to his toned-down broklyn accent??
Too bad,

fix-the-spade:
Oh come on, you can review crap like this and not Senna?!

Give me a break, review the damned documentary already!

I'm pretty sure that the Escapist decides what he watches, and though I indeed do think Senna was a Great film,, I guess its not main stream and/or of nerd-interest enough to merit a review on the site..

MovieBob:

What the hell is going on?

No joke, I actually watched this movie last night, and my response is about on par with yours, Moviebob.

Except that I'm not really willing to defend it, and at the same time, I am. I think it's a movie that isn't the worst, but it's not as bad as you are saying it is. Of course, I've maybe seen two new movies all year, and reviews are opinion, so, I'll take that with a grain of salt.

It's a polarizing picture, and the sad thing is, if you said you loved it, I could see why, and if you hated it, I could say why.

If nothing else, the very end is probably brilliant (not the lead up to the end, I was as disappointed as you were), but the very end, at least Kevin Smith imparts some kind of wisdom that I think we all should follow when we think of the WBC today. (Funny to mention, the last line in the movie is spoken by Smith, and it's still has some wisdom behind it, whether it applies to the resolve or Kevin's career, even).

It's sadly average.

I disappoints me that Bob didn't at least touch on how Kevin Smith is calling this his last movie as he's planning to retire after this one.

@ 2:17

I would actually like to know what you think about Smith "retiring," Bob.

I actually saw Red State when Kevin Smith premiered it in Radio City Music hall. I enjoyed it quite a bit, but the audience was horrendous. I never thought I'd literally be in a sea of dicks in my life, but I guess anything can happen.

OT: I thought the point of Red State was that even though the country is run by colossal assholes, we shouldn't have qualms about them busting into a religious nut's compound and just wiping that blemish from our social order. Can't say I disagree.

Personally i love smithdom, i will admit its not for everybody and generally only really connects with those who enjoy a stoner making comedies, actions, and now horror.
Smith has repeatedly said that this movie is really three movies, a horny teenager sex pursuit, a cult who believes that they are doing the lords work, and a standoff. so bob got those points right. smith generally does not do satire and again here does not. smith is a storyteller and often doesn't need it to be about anything. hell if anyone knows his next movie is based on a hockey song and he's splitting that into two films.
I think to understand his films, you should listen to smodcast, specifically the one with him and mosier because that is him at his most candid.
he's well aware he's a niche market, and often seeks from studios not to give him a huge budget or big stars. however people like hanging with him and thus wanna work with him, so he usually can. the selling to himself if you listen to the smodcast was premeditated. he was talking about releasing it himself long before he took it to the bidding war for the rights, and there actually was legitimate interest but smith felt that they were trying to hard. smith goes under what he calls harvey's method which is to advertise to the people who wanna watch a smith film and not the general crowd because he knows his market is small.
generally i like these reviews because i can on some points agree, however after hearing it in its entirity its clear movie bob is not a smith fan, and so it makes sense he would not like the movie. But having been lucky enough to see the movie i will say it is worth your time if you enjoy smith films, if not then to each his own.

Another film with religious nutjobs. I'm not directly offended, but as a Christian (and a fairly liberal one), I worry that future generations will start to base all understanding of religion on these kinds of films: "Religious people are misguided people whose beliefs will quickly change from wrong to plain dangerous".

I understand that having good guys corrupted - for example, Christians, who are supposed to be kind, open hearted people, being aggressive and unreasonable - adds to the shock and awe of films, and that this is the basis of the entire film, but recently, it's moving past that and starting to hit close to home. I will call upon Sunshine as evidence - a really tense, good film, but a guy tries to kill them because "God told him to". It was really unneccessary, and I am sure there are more appropriate ways of forwarding the plot.

EDIT (22:30 GMT): Actually, pubbing has made quite a good point that the whole thing may have been ironic, as a way of drawing attention to the overblown cartoon evil guys so people stop and think "Yeah, people aren't really like that". I just worry they won't.

How long until we get Movie Bob's list of movies to use as a how not to make a movie?

MBE:
Holy cow! Moviebob surprised the heck out of me. I was 100% sure that Moviebob was going to LOOOOOVE Saint Kevin Smith's "Red State". It has everything a Leftist propaganda film needs.... The villains are non-Democrat Christian heterosexual psychotic murderers who have to be "pacified" by Dear Leader's stormtroopers.

I know Moviebob's opinions are the opposite of most people -- see his glowing reviews of box office bombs "Sucker Punch" and "Thor" for examples -- but who would have thought that Moviebob would have an opinion that would agree with normal people!

Of course, this means that "Red State" will get glowing reviews from the MSM and that "Red State" will win the Academy Award for Best Picture next year.

Considering the "Saw" and "Hostel" movie sequels are getting into double digits, I'm sure we'll have more "Red State" movies as we get closer to Election Day.

First, Thor? I wouldn't call a Domestic Total Gross of $181,030,624 a 'box office bomb'.

Second, Red State has been widely panned. Go look at Rotten Tomatoes: 38%, rotten. Don't think it'll be in the running for an Oscar, particularly given the shenanigans that Kevin Smith pulled in the 'release' to the movie.

OT: I actually enjoyed the Hell out of 'Red State'. I think a big part of that was that a friend DVR'd it, and didn't tell me a thing about it before having me watch it. Didn't know it was a Kevin Smith movie until after I watched it. Didn't know what it was about.

Yes, I'm saying that knowing it's a Kevin Smith film will certainly color your opinion of it.

The two points about which I will agree with Bob are: now that I think of it, he should've used a gay protagonist, but

(Also, they specify why the three high school kids got bagged-- they wanted to 'lay with a woman in the manner of beasts, which is offensive to the Lord and makes them Sodomites.' And remember, homosexuals are considered Sodomites as well, by the bible's definition.)

The second thing: the receding action with Goodman just explaining what happened was rather ham-handed. It could've been done more gracefully, for sure.

Other than that, I disagree with Bob almost categorically. Especially in regards to the 'point'. Life often doesn't have a point. And I think that- more than anything- was the point of 'Red State': both sides have good elements; both sides have bad elements; and this whole damn thing called 'Life' is more than half-way to batshit crazy.

My take? Red State is a decent way to spend a couple of hours. It'll make you think, some of the acting is really inspired, and it'll throw some curveballs your way. Just go into it without expectations. Is it a movie with a Life-altering message? No, unless you need to be told that Life makes very little sense most of the time.

I had no intention of seeing this before this video, but now I'm really fucking curious. Thanks, MovieBob.

It's ironic that I was watching a video (on youtube) filmed from one of his talks and he was saying he would never ever make an action movie, that an action movie by him would be just some guys talking, etc.

Now he makes a movie that's at least one third action. Maybe he should have sticked to just guys talking?

Jennacide:
Either way, yes. Everyone should at least attempt to watch The Room. Not everyone will appreciate it, but goddam if it isn't a gem of complete shit in how absurdly bad it is.

To summarize The Room for people who don't know:

Make a movie.
Get someone who can't act to play the lead. (Not that anyone else is much better.)
Get someone who can't direct to direct.
Get someone who can't even speak the language properly to write the script.
MAKE THEM THE SAME PERSON!

Undead Dragon King:
Nice map of the 2008 presidential election at the end, Bob. Of course America is exactly the same political landscape today as it was 3 years ago.

I'm so glad someone else noticed that, I saw that map and thought 'hm... there's something off about that...'

OT: I had no illusions that this wasn't going to be a good movie, however it is interesting that Smith chose to name the movie 'Red State' instead of a more honest title to the script. Something about taking extremism to a murderous level, I don't think of those things very well, I'm just making the observation.

Last week I mentioned this movie in the comments this week there's a review. I feel powerful. The movie's pretty good, though. Don't let "professional" opinions get in the way of a potentially enjoyable 90 minutes. This review was more from the perspective of "I just watched the latest movie by this crazy and crummy director who wants to make a political statement," rather "I just saw this movie." It works. The horror movie stuff is a pretty solid horror movie (they explain why they are murdering the "not gay" teenagers right in the scene shown in the video), the action stuff is intentionally jarring yet intriguing, and the ending was... meh. However, I was not bored at any point. I'm always happy to see Damian Young get work.

Well maybe it best he says he's going to retire after his next film.

Guess what ...

Kevin Smith announced his early retirement following a Sundance Film Festival screening of the film Red State, offering to make one more film before leaving filmmaking all together. [67] Journalist Chris Lee chronicled the events leading up to the decision, citing industry observers and anonymous sources "familiar with Smith's inner circle", saying:

"After a 19-month run of provocative antics-a headline-grabbing Twitter outburst against Southwest Airlines, the ritual badmouthing of journalists and critics, a blustery film-festival soliloquy, and the lingering "I'm really gonna do this, man" threat that he will retire from filmmaking after his next feature-many industry observers are wondering if Smith has lost the plot. Worse, those close to the writer-director say his marijuana consumption and categorization of every person in his sphere into friendly or enemy camps, combined with a tendency to sequester himself inside an echo chamber, have resulted in a kind of epic self-sabotage and may have driven him to wash his hands of the film business."[68]

Treblaine:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and blame weed. Because someone has to.

Seriously, look at all those free living bohemian types, where there is a big crossover with the anti-establishment "weed isn't a dangerous drug". And then 10-20 years later there they are, crazy as fuck. Smith is joining the ranks of Lucas, the Wachowski Brothers and many other artists who have completely lost it.

I get it, weed has been oversold in such works as "Reefer Madness" but that's become a straw-man, I don't think weed is good for the long term mental health of artists. And it's subtle, the effect.

I am very much against medicating for ANYTHING, I've seen too many people who start trying to use chemicals to guide their lives and ended up taking them where they didn't want to go.

He wrote this script before he started smoking weed. If you listen to his podcasts though, it does seem like he might be developing a problem. He bursts into tears a lot, and I've heard him throw a few temper tantrums on his morning show like when the dog barks or youtube doesn't work. He used to be sarcastic and laid back, now he's really emo. On the flip side, it makes some of his podcasts insanely funny sometimes. He's either really high or really low - even though he's almost always high. It's sad because he got Jay off of drugs and he's sharper and funnier than he's ever been.

solidstatemind:

My take? Red State is a decent way to spend a couple of hours. It'll make you think, some of the acting is really inspired, and it'll throw some curveballs your way. Just go into it without expectations. Is it a movie with a Life-altering message? No, unless you need to be told that Life makes very little sense most of the time.

What this guy said. I think he's aping the non-message message of Coen Bros films. He doesn't get it quite right, but I see what he was going for. Maybe. Anyways, he's outright said on twitter that he put a bunch of little references to Coen stuff in the movie and that's why he also wanted John Goodman in it. (Why yes, I am a fanboy regurgitating information. There are other podcasts on his site that are way better than his. Mohr Stories and TESD are excellent.)

Funny you didn't want to review movies like Warrior or Contagion (both getting great reviews), yet thought some Kevin Smith movie that hasn't even hit wide release would be a better option.

zelda2fanboy:

Treblaine:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and blame weed. Because someone has to.

Seriously, look at all those free living bohemian types, where there is a big crossover with the anti-establishment "weed isn't a dangerous drug". And then 10-20 years later there they are, crazy as fuck. Smith is joining the ranks of Lucas, the Wachowski Brothers and many other artists who have completely lost it.

I get it, weed has been oversold in such works as "Reefer Madness" but that's become a straw-man, I don't think weed is good for the long term mental health of artists. And it's subtle, the effect.

I am very much against medicating for ANYTHING, I've seen too many people who start trying to use chemicals to guide their lives and ended up taking them where they didn't want to go.

He wrote this script before he started smoking weed. If you listen to his podcasts though, it does seem like he might be developing a problem. He bursts into tears a lot, and I've heard him throw a few temper tantrums on his morning show like when the dog barks or youtube doesn't work. He used to be sarcastic and laid back, now he's really emo. On the flip side, it makes some of his podcasts insanely funny sometimes. He's either really high or really low - even though he's almost always high. It's sad because he got Jay off of drugs and he's sharper and funnier than he's ever been.

Doesn't sound good. If I was him I'd quit cannabis for good. Because he's been getting worse, he's definitely losing grip on that i-don't-know-what that keeps us glued to planet earth, mentally.

Then again, I don't know how much he is smoking now, nor exactly how much he used to smoke at the height of his career. I just don't want to wait for the 20-year studies on the mental effects of cannabis, like my grandfather's generation waited for confirmation of the "proven link" between smoking and cancer. It was too late for him.

Weed should be a rare treat, NOT something that should be consumed in any way habitually. Not even monthly. I'm talking birthdays or distant reunions.

DragonLord Seth:
Congratulations, you've...
been...
TROLLED!
You've been trolled!
troll troll troll trooooooooolll

I don't get it. Are you saying Bob actually thinks the movie is good and made a negative review just to incence us (which doesn't seem likely, since people defending the movie seem to be slightly outnumbered in the comments, even if you don't count the Thomas the Transformer videos) or that Kevin Smith deliberately made a bad movie with a viewpoint diehard liberals would agree it with the precise intent of challenging preconceptions?

Or are you just trolling?

Kanlic:
OT: I thought the point of Red State was that even though the country is run by colossal assholes, we shouldn't have qualms about them busting into a religious nut's compound and just wiping that blemish from our social order. Can't say I disagree.

So you're saying that it's OK for evil politicians to take away the rights of people, as long as you don't personally agree with them?

Can't say I agree.

Were a lot of you guys going to see Red State until Movie Bob said it sucked? Really? If you want to see it, just go fucking see it. I saw Don't be Afraid of the Dark, and it sucked, but I didn't regret seeing it. Listen, Bob's reviews are just his opinion. I've agreed and disagreed with his opinions. He said it sucked. Fine. I'm still going to see it. Maybe I'm just colored because I've heard of Red State from Kevin Smith's side, as I love listening to all his podcasts. Still, I take Bob's opinion under advisement, but I'm still going to see it.

pubbing:

Therumancer:
Hmmm, well I've been reading very mixed things about this movie. I can't say that Kevin Smith has really failed because a lot of people seem to like it for some reason. Personally I'm probably not going to see it to be honest.

I think the lack of a clear "message" is supposed to kind of be the point. As I understand things Kevin Smith is trying to comment on perceptions, and the way the media sways them to an extent. I think the whole thing where the movie is shot in a way that it seems like your supposd to be cheering for the evil scumbag cultists, but you really can't do it, is kind of the point. To put it in the context of Waco, people will sit there and criticize the FBI for the "botched" handling of the case, but really you can't sit there and say that they should have just walked away and let David Koresh do whatever the heck he wanted to do. In a "big picture" kind of way you have to weigh the pros and cons, of certain things, killing children is never good, but when an organization like the "Branch Davidians", or the group from "Red State" has an influance outside of what they do internally (enough to get attention) the risk of losing those children becomes the lesser evil. Shadowy orders aside, is it really better to just have the FBI walk away and let them do whatever they want to do? Not to mention the message is sends that all a whack job needs to do is keep some kids in their compound and nobody will bug them.

The inflammatory title aside, I think a big part of the issue is that a lot of people were expecting a very clear cut "conservatives are bad, liberals are good" message, and really that isn't what this movie is trying to say, it's not based around a single clear message or idealogy and is criticizing groups like the Westboro church, but also the left wing media (indirectly) and pressures, and sort of supporting a fairly right wing take on hardcore law enforcement when needed.

Of course this is all based on what I've heard, I admit I have not seen the movie, but this is what I have been able to piece together.

Honestly, I'm hardly the liberal Kevin Smith seems to be in most of his work, but it would be nice if he went back towards his older style.

I think liberals should get some conservative friends that way we can have real discussions about issues and get past the propaganda.

While your suggestion is admirable, I'd like to explain why it's practically impossible.

After 9/11, Liberals, who were opposed to invading and occupying Iraq, were told that if we didn't support Bush, we were Saddam's best friend. We were called anti-American. We were told that we were aiding and abetting the terrorists.

I will never, ever forget that, and to top it off, we were right that Saddam didn't have anything to with 9/11, that he wasn't a threat to America, and he didn't have WMD's. Iraq will go down as one of the worst military operations in our history.

I haven't seen anyone on the conservative side apologize for the disgusting rhetoric and the way we were treated.

I can't speak for all Liberals, but I know a lot of them that feel the same way.

Treblaine:

Doesn't sound good. If I was him I'd quit cannabis for good. Because he's been getting worse, he's definitely losing grip on that i-don't-know-what that keeps us glued to planet earth, mentally.

Then again, I don't know how much he is smoking now, nor exactly how much he used to smoke at the height of his career. I just don't want to wait for the 20-year studies on the mental effects of cannabis, like my grandfather's generation waited for confirmation of the "proven link" between smoking and cancer. It was too late for him.

Weed should be a rare treat, NOT something that should be consumed in any way habitually. Not even monthly. I'm talking birthdays or distant reunions.

He never smoked weed before Zack and Miri "bombed" at the box office and sent him into a depression (yet it grossed more money than any of his other movies). He's been preaching about pot like it's a miracle lifestyle choice ever since, saying he gets stoned multiple times a day. On Mohr Stories many episodes back, Jay Mohr and his manager were trying to figure out just what the hell happened to once great black comics like Martin Lawrence and Dave Chappelle. The manager said he didn't think it was money or fame or bad luck. It just boiled down to the long term effects of drugs, altering brain chemistry and creating/exacerbating psychological problems like depression and bipolar disorder when they weren't present before.

It's a little troubling for a long time fan, even though he really hasn't had any apparent problems yet. But the stuff he says like "Worry is just paying interest on a loan that never comes due" and the general attitude of "it doesn't matter if you think my movies suck because I'm going to retire soon anyways" don't exactly paint the picture of a guy who values himself very much. I'm probably just projecting because I myself am a self hating loser, but still. The man is talented and he puts himself down constantly, almost to silence someone else who isn't there. The guy used to defend himself, justify his opinions, and school people with his quick wit. Like I said though, he's still really funny even (and especially when) stoned. I guess I'll enjoy it while it lasts, but it's getting old.

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