Extra Punctuation: What Human Revolution Got Wrong

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I loved this game but the boss fights are horrible especially if you were trying not to kill anyone and have no decent guns.

The end for me was horrible it was all vague about the state of the world when I would have preferred a little bit about Adam himself what he did after or if anything happened but I strongly suspect DLC.

artanis_neravar:

Grouchy Imp:
Pretty much. The character development does tend to funnel the player somewhat, but it is possible to make a specialized Jensen if the player is particularly bloody minded about it. My (and a lot of other peoples') first character panned out as Yahtzee said, but I have since gone back and done pure combat and pure stealth runs.

Also, the boss fights were totally (and I mean totally) fucking pointless. A character geared for stealth will be ripped a new one by even the weakest boss, but a character built for combat will destroy each boss in literally seconds (max level Typhoon, two volleys per boss). Seriously, try it. The balance (or lack thereof) is appalling.

And Reason 5 eliminates the need for Reasons 1-4.

Stabby Joe:
The first boss fight was a good example of their poor implementation since the "non-guns" approach was just throwing barrels... not quite fitting for the non-lethal character either.

Even with these flaws, Human Revolution is still one of the more refreshing games recently. Does that excuse them? No, far from it. But I can still see usual trend of people coming here who take one or two things Yahtzee says about a game and declare it bad regardless of not playing it.

For the first two bosses, you can just stun gun then to the face somewhere between 6 and 10 times and they die without being able to move.

But you still have to unload on them, stun or regular gun.

They said all geniuses are a little crazy and Yahtzee is the embodiment of that statement. Everything he says is true and makes sense yet he make short vids where he talks really fast. :)

1)Regarding the boss fights, I think it's the biggest failure in Human Revolution. In terms of gameplay it lacks tactic, in terms of story it lacks....well....story! Metal gear games remained one of the few games with great bosses.

2)One have to actually play and BEAT the game before they can see the flaws in Human revolutions melee and pre-cooked cut scene; What seems to be cool the first few times will seem like a drag when you're 1hour in. In addition the cut scene makes it impossible to jump over roof tops because they'll cut you half way and show you a slow, anger inducing animation.

3)4)5) agreed with everything.

I agree with that. But i liked DE:HR regardless. And i liked DE, which had loads of negatives as well, but i guess people overlook all of them. Thats nostalgia for you.

I couldn't agree with you more on this article Yahtzee and here's why.

I have had a certain plan at the beginning of the game where I would decide to go full guns blazing lethal without any hacking or nothing whatsoever and I got my ass handed to me.Then after noticing that investing in hacking augs would literally make praxis kits fall from the sky,I decided to start power gaming and hacking everything in sight.It might of been boring and dull,but the reward was very appreciated.By the end of the game I managed to have 90% of my augs filled up apart from the cloaking device and some feet upgrades,just because I decided to read all the Ebooks and hack everything even though I had a code for it.

Even if the game showed you multiple ways of reaching your destination,it still encourages you to go back and try another path which leads to more xp/loot along the way.

The game has it's flaws,but it is a good title as a prequel to Deus Ex.I do wonder,however,which path will they take with the ending after credits.Since it is a prequel after well,we should all know.Will they try to remake Deus Ex 1 or go a different way? Time will tell.

I agree with Yahtzee 100% about the first point. The boss fights were my biggest complaint about the game. I was more miffed about actually having to fight in them rather than them having no significance to me but still, it is a valid point.

Lack of melee weapons never bothered me. I did though, enjoy being able to silently and instantly take down enemies as opposed to having to stun-baton them for 3 seconds. I would say though that I missed hunting around in crates for ammo although I didn't feel that not being able to took away from the experience for me.

I also didn't feel that the reduced specialization bothered me at all either. By the end of each Deus Ex I had a character that was quite sneaky and hacky and was reasonably competent in a fight. The only difference really was that in the original you specialize by weapon type whereas in DX3 you just specialize in combat in general. I think that they made up for it though with the improved weapon-upgrade system though. You generally won't be carrying around more than 2 good weapons at any given time anyways. Plus, the addition of a hacking minigame and the improved stealth made it feel (to me anyways) that there were *more* specialization options given that you actually could make a character who was designed to go through the game without being seen.

As for the disappointing endings, yeah sure. I agree with Yahtzee here too. I suspect that this was more of a "omg we're out of budget/time" issue than actual bad game design. I find it somewhat hard to believe that a game which got so many things so right would be so far off the mark for something so big.

thenamelessloser:

ZippyDSMlee:

Roganzar:
Yes all of Yahtzee's points are valid. These are definitely areas the Devs got it wrong when the made the game. However I still really like this game.

The augs are better developed than the AI, yet he is not bashing the AI.

You either didn't play the first Deus Ex or only skimmed the article. Yahtzee is talking about things that Deus Ex 3 got worse than Deus ex One. The AI in Deus Ex was terrible at times probably worse than Deus Ex 3. The specialization of augs/skills was definitely something missing from Deus Ex 3 which was in the first one.

HA the AI in DX1 is sharper and less dumb than what you have in DX:HR and IW had slightly better AI as well, now DX:HR's AI can fight but thats abotu all they can do..

nyysjan:
On one thing i disagreed with Yahtzee, to me, Deus Ex has aged amazingly well.
Decade from launch, and i can still install it on my computer, and play it with same amount of enjoyment i did ten years ago (well, some frustration with having to fiddle with it to make it run on windows 7 and widescreen, but other than that, awesome all the way), sure, i know the story and most, if not all, of the secrets, but gameplay still stands on it's own, story is still good and characters are relatable, all the things i want from a game are there.
There are very few games i can say that about.

You can't objectively say something has aged well when your vision is coloured with nostalgia. A true test for aging is putting it into the hands of a completely new player and seeing how it holds up to them. If they can make concessions for the graphics being outdated and genuinely still find the game fun, then you can say it has aged well.

I preferred Human revolution to the original deus ex... Am I the only one?

Eisenfaust:
i'm also slightly concerned about the psychic super-hobo after you return to detroit...

"you will all suffer a grey sickness!"
"it will come on the backs of 12 kings" etc

WHY CAN A HOBO PREDICT THE FUTURE?! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?!

clearly the illuminati and the majestic 12 are slipping IF A RANDOM HOBO KNOWS ALL YOUR PLANS, DAMMIT!

bah! as much as it's highly probably it's just a salute to it's predecessor but WHY?! what does this mean for the continuity? bah!

It wouldn't surprise if the Illuminati got him to do that, simply because people would dismiss him as a raving lunatic.

Kurai Angelo:

nyysjan:
On one thing i disagreed with Yahtzee, to me, Deus Ex has aged amazingly well.
Decade from launch, and i can still install it on my computer, and play it with same amount of enjoyment i did ten years ago (well, some frustration with having to fiddle with it to make it run on windows 7 and widescreen, but other than that, awesome all the way), sure, i know the story and most, if not all, of the secrets, but gameplay still stands on it's own, story is still good and characters are relatable, all the things i want from a game are there.
There are very few games i can say that about.

You can't objectively say something has aged well when your vision is coloured with nostalgia. A true test for aging is putting it into the hands of a completely new player and seeing how it holds up to them. If they can make concessions for the graphics being outdated and genuinely still find the game fun, then you can say it has aged well.

Well, I only got it this last June, and I think it's kickin' rad.

Question! Completely unrelated to the article itself, but I want to know at what part of the game does Adam lose his shirt and is running around bleeding? I never saw that part. Or did he use a scene from the DLC that will be coming out?

I can related to number 3 and number 1. I never thought I'd need to be able to jump up on buses, but by the end of the game I had maxed out my stealth and hacking, so I figured why not. I never had to resort to full combat though, except on that one part where you return to China.
And I still don't entirely understand the bosses' motivation either. Namir's final words sounded like they were supposed to make him tragic, but that's hard to do when we know nothing about him. And the woman--why does Adam say that he'll think about saving her? That drives me nuts, because he then just stands there and watches her bleed to death. And don't say he was being sarcastic, because he always talks in the same way. I feel like we were supposed to be given a choice--especially since she looks up at you with almost pleading eyes--but they took it out at the last moment. It would have been a good way to flush out the bosses better if you saved her.

I actually didn't mind the boss fights that much, but that's probably because I don't really see the appeal in playing a non-lethal character, especially since there are no non-lethal sniper rifles in Deus Ex. Besides, all of them can be easily killed by either placing mines at their spawn point, bringing a turret or just spamming Typhoon, so it's not like you really have to fight them directly.

I guess my real problems with HR were the gameplay and the story.
While the gameplay worked very well, there was just barely any variety to keep things interesting for very long. There are just three different kinds of guards and if you're playing stealth there might as well be just one.
I'm not asking for the aliens or Half-Life rejects the original introduced (hell no), but how about melee focused enemies that can break your stupid one-hit-instant-kill attack? Enemies that can see through your cloak? Enemies that are immune to tranqs? See and shoot through walls?
By the middle of the game there were so many ways to completely break it: Enhanced vision + laser rifle, Typhoon spamming, the cloak; some enemies to counter that would have been nice.

The story was pretty good for the most part, but it really failed as a prequel.
If you preordered the game Jensen interacts with exactly one character from the original, the only character we learn anything new about is Manderley before he joined Unatco. That's it, really; like 3 other characters are also name dropped, but we learn nothing relevant except that they were indeed alive in 2027. We don't learn anything about Unatco's founding, nothing about DeBeer or the other Illuminati, nothing about anything that leads up to DE.

I had a few other issues, mostly in the story department, but those two problems are what made HR - while still a pretty good game - ultimately a disappointment for me. Phew, good thing this EP came up; since I'm fairly late to the party I didn't know where else to whine.

I keep hearing about how plentiful Praxis points are. I'm just starting the Montreal-media level, and I've at MOST found 3 kits in all the game. The rest were purchased, or gained through XP. I am finding that I am not abundant with my points.

"every player eventually becomes the same thing"

For me, the biggest problem of the game. When I started playing my plan was not use stealth, because all the wankers of the world are playing this way I was already tired of it before start playing. Read this thread and see how everything is "I did different, I did stealth!"
BUT it's impossible play this game outside the stealth template. It's not a game break problem, you can have a stealth focused RPG but the original Deus Ex allow a lot of different approaches. Damn, 11 years have passed for God sake!

*ahem*....

Seriously, that was kinda dickish. There really is no reason to do that when people still declare interest in it.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Extra Punctuation: What Human Revolution Got Wrong

Yahtzee lists five reasons why the original Deus Ex was better.

Read Full Article

Yes, totally. We are like a hive mind, I posted literally the same thing on the DEHR official boards ^_^

Well, the endings problem can't be avoided, that's the problem with prequel games. You already know how things are going to turn out because you know what happened in the next game in the series, nothing you can decide can alter those fundemental developments.

This is one of the reasons why I'm none to fond of prequels in general.

I agree, but HR is a damn fine game, and all but the endings are easily forgiveable.

@nyysjan: Same here! As of now I have only finished the first level of the original, but I love it! Screw Killzone, Resistance, and other graphicly taxing games, games like this are the greats.

AgentBJ09:
2.5 - Lack of food vendors - Did anyone else besides me find it agonizing how long you would play certain missions with only ONE energy cell powered in this damn game? Why didn't the food vendors in Hangsha, Detriot, or any other hub sell actual food since energy bars restore those cells? Yes, I know LIMB clinics did this, but in Deus Ex 1, you could also stumble upon plenty of ammo and restoration items with just some basic scouting.

Or how about the fact that there's vending machines all over the place, credits in my wallet but I can't buy anything out of them? Seriously, the first moments of the game where I wanted to recharge a battery and moved my reticule over a vending machine hoping to buy something and all I got was the option to move it, I was dumbfounded.

Other than little things like that, and yes, the boss fights (I'm on Yelena right now, hardest difficulty, first play through with a mostly stealth character and am getting repetitiously fucked in a bad way by her), I think the game is very good. (I kind of feel like I will have to get lucky with Yelena or I will have to restart. Which might not be a bad thing. We always make mistakes in character building on our first attempts in game)

Kurai Angelo:

nyysjan:
On one thing i disagreed with Yahtzee, to me, Deus Ex has aged amazingly well.
Decade from launch, and i can still install it on my computer, and play it with same amount of enjoyment i did ten years ago (well, some frustration with having to fiddle with it to make it run on windows 7 and widescreen, but other than that, awesome all the way), sure, i know the story and most, if not all, of the secrets, but gameplay still stands on it's own, story is still good and characters are relatable, all the things i want from a game are there.
There are very few games i can say that about.

You can't objectively say something has aged well when your vision is coloured with nostalgia. A true test for aging is putting it into the hands of a completely new player and seeing how it holds up to them. If they can make concessions for the graphics being outdated and genuinely still find the game fun, then you can say it has aged well.

I first played it 2011 and it kicked ass. It's still one of my favourite games. I think we're done here.

Mmmmm.... Sex Orgies...

I mean... what?

I want to be JC the heavy weapon dude, or JC the ninja, or JC the fleeing coward! I want to feel like God in what my skills are invested in, and shit in everything else. In HR, I just feel slightly above average in everything, which makes it a bit boring.

I had to look up the boss fight names while trying to find a walkthrough for the second one. I had absolutely no idea what her name was, or why she was there. Besides some brief foreshadowing about how feared she is, I knew nothing about her besides how angry she made me.
All of which really shocked me when it came to the final boss and I saw the options available, including a "Get out of Boss Fight free" card if you did well in the dialogue persuasion earlier.

With Resistance 3 and Serious Sam 3 both including hammers, hopefully the melee weapon is on its way back. The melee combat overall in Resistance felt really visceral to me, but once you get the sledgehammer it's just another story. Hopefully it makes people realise how much fun they can be.

Truly-A-Lie:
I had to look up the boss fight names while trying to find a walkthrough for the second one. I had absolutely no idea what her name was, or why she was there. Besides some brief foreshadowing about how feared she is, I knew nothing about her besides how angry she made me.
All of which really shocked me when it came to the final boss and I saw the options available, including a "Get out of Boss Fight free" card if you did well in the dialogue persuasion earlier.

With Resistance 3 and Serious Sam 3 both including hammers, hopefully the melee weapon is on its way back. The melee combat overall in Resistance felt really visceral to me, but once you get the sledgehammer it's just another story. Hopefully it makes people realise how much fun they can be.

I can't tell you how much fun it is smashing the faces of Grims.

Ew. Just... Ew.

Seriously, you sound like an old man. "Back in my day, Dexus Es was a deeper and more engrossing experience with, better bosses and weapons!" I think yahtzee is officially a retro gamer.

You think Yahtzee would've included these complaints in his review? He only had two whole videos to talk about this.

trollpwner:

Kurai Angelo:

nyysjan:
On one thing i disagreed with Yahtzee, to me, Deus Ex has aged amazingly well.
Decade from launch, and i can still install it on my computer, and play it with same amount of enjoyment i did ten years ago (well, some frustration with having to fiddle with it to make it run on windows 7 and widescreen, but other than that, awesome all the way), sure, i know the story and most, if not all, of the secrets, but gameplay still stands on it's own, story is still good and characters are relatable, all the things i want from a game are there.
There are very few games i can say that about.

You can't objectively say something has aged well when your vision is coloured with nostalgia. A true test for aging is putting it into the hands of a completely new player and seeing how it holds up to them. If they can make concessions for the graphics being outdated and genuinely still find the game fun, then you can say it has aged well.

I first played it 2011 and it kicked ass. It's still one of my favourite games. I think we're done here.

As long as you mute it during the cutscenes.

That voice acting. x.x

Where HR shines over DX, (I love both, and DX 1 is better), is the dialogue and theme. David Sarif is a more interesting character to me than Bob Page.

The character seems more personally motivated in this game than DX1.

thenamelessloser:

Babitz:
For me it goes like this:

Deus Ex = Unreal Tournament + System Shock + Thief + whatever else they could also squeeze in
Deus Ex: Human Revolution = Gears of War + Metal Gear Solid

The original has much more interactivity. I remember going to Paul's apartment where I could pick up all of his dishes and throw them at strangers. In UNATCO I could move "wet floor" signs. Yes, it doesn't make any change in gameplay, but it was immersive and fun to redecorate my office with random shit and whatnot. In HR every item you can interact with is there for a purpose, be it hiding a vent or the ability to throw it at an enemy. Yeah, you could flush the toilets which felt as a homage to the original, not really as some immersive sim mechanic.

Oh and yes, I absolutely loved how shitty you were with guns depending on your skills. The health system is also the best I've seen.
HR felt in certain ways more like IW rather than the original. Actually, IW had more gameplay versatility than HR.

Face it, it's true: they just don't make them like that anymore. ;_;

Deus Ex 3 was actualy Rainbow Six Vegas + splinter cell games and/or metal gears solid (not sure about the stealth parts as much)

Just play the Rainbow Six Vegas 1 or 2 demo. Basically very similar FPS style to Deus Ex. First person but third person in cover. To me in a sense Deus Ex 1 was a combination of the FPS and stealth games at a time with a little bi to of an RPG and Deus Ex 3 is the same thing but for a different time/generation of gamers/games.

I agree and that's basically what I've stated as well. Both games were influenced by the best / most popular first person games of the time.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
Extra Punctuation: What Human Revolution Got Wrong

Yahtzee lists five reasons why the original Deus Ex was better.

Read Full Article

As we continue trying to great one big "hyper-genre" that incorporates the "best" of each incorporated genre, we're completely missing the point of each. Add to this that companies try to do so using rock-bottom staffing (and thus sub-par workmanship), and the problem only gets bigger.

RPGs were entirely about divergent character development. You start out as John Gray Plainman, unknown jerk. As you play the game, you grow and develop as a character. You make choices, you take a variety of paths. And at the end, you're a clearly-defined character with strengths and weaknesses particular to the path you've chosen. Other players? Completely different characters.

The drawback? You've got to create a game world with enough stuff going on that each different iteration of John can find things to enjoy. John-the-Sharpshooter needs sharp things to shoot. John-the-Baker needs cakes to bake. John-the-Goat-Fondler needs a better name and hobby. Your world is forced to have depth and variety, and that takes a fair amount of extra work.

Now games are entirely too convergent. You start off John Gray Plainman, you branch out a little bit in the middle (Instead of killing things with a bat, you're killing them with a gun. Specialization!)... but eventually, you're John Bloody Superman. Because we only felt like writing one type of ending, so we want to make sure you'll have the necessary skills by that point.

We used to have a hundred trains going from Point A to one of a hundred Points B. Now we have ten trains going from Point A to a single Point B along parallel-but-slightly-different tracks. That's not roleplaying, and these are not choices--it's like reading the menu at a restaurant that features nothing but three dozen different colors of the same hamburger.

While I agree with your points, my biggest gripe is that the storytelling is as subtle as a sledgehammer in the face. There are no plot surprises. I'd just have expected a little bit better here and there.

The worst bit to me - *MILD SPOILER ALERT* - was that there was no way to indicate to the game that you'd figured out VERY EASILY that the bartender in The Hive was, in fact, the guy you were looking for. Instead my character was acting all surprised, and in that moment it's not *my* character any longer, it's an idiot I have to watch stumbling through the world as if he was lobotomized.

Excellent points -- burst out laughing at the end. ^^

I agree with the ending machine. An ending should be a result of the sum of all choices, or at least, if it's going to be made like it was, to give a deeper insight on every possibility during the last mission to make the player evaluate what does he wants to do, rather than making the player do the Pepsi Challenge...

Around this time, I only hear 'WAAAAAAHGH THE OLDER GAMES WERE BETTER!!!! WAAAAAAAHGH NEW GAMES ARE SHIT!" from him.

The only FPS I've ever played is Team Fortress 2 (let's all laugh at the FPS noob in the corner! A hur hur hur), and even THAT had melee weapons. In fact, melee weapons were pretty useful if used correctly, and sometimes the only way to kill a dude right up in your face is to hit him with a trenching shovel. How is it that game understands that melee has uses even in a shooter, yet a Deus Ex title doesn't?

Well, HR does have some melee, just as takedowns. Takedowns that cost energy to perform. Maybe I fell asleep and missed the lecture on melee vs armed combat, but isn't the underlying point of melee weapons that you don't need ammo or energy to use them?

And what is with the game just allowing you to beef yourself up in every area? Maybe I WANT to specialize, so that my hard choices with what points I spend on what actually has weight! That they actually mean something!

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