Critical Miss: Sexism and/or Racism

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Nice one!

I'm sure I've seen that que many a time, but generally walk past it and carry on to the pub

The problem is that sexism and racism are accusations that are by and large used because they are good for rabble rousing and carry political weight. If you ignore them, or try and deal with such accusations entirely rationally, they can taint whatever they are thrown at.

The reason why this is an issue is that sexism and racism are dead as mainstream phenomenas, you see it only on the fringes of society. Mainstream society has however not yet come to grips with this as they were big issues, and despite virtually nobody being racist or sexist everyone still seems to somehow think that there are lots of these people around, and that by being tolerant they are part of some kind of elite minority. This is why HUGE media blitzes and such take place when such accusations are made, with tons of people rallying behind the issue, but nothing there, or no substantial representation of the other side, because there is actually nobody there to seriously act as opposition. Right now such accusations exist to harness this "power" in order to garner attention/five minutes of fame, or to rally people for political purposes against some enemy that doesn't actually exist. For the most part racism and sexism in modern American society occupy the same role as the non-existant monsters in the old move "The Village", with some fringe freak occasionally trotted out (much like a dude in a creature suit) just long enough to keep this valuable social tool viable and the illusion alive.

Racism and sexism also provide a conveinent tool for people to blame their own failings on. If your a minority you can blame "whitey" in a nebulous sense without having to actually make much in the way of specific accusations. For a woman they can blame sexism and how it's all the men keeping them down. It's easier than to face the reality of one's limitations, or the hard work of having to fit in with society. Blaming an omnipresent, nebulous enemy is the ultimate excuse. For the most part today someone who invokes racism or sexism is in a similar boat to a sadistic seriel killer saying "well, society made me do this", it's just that in this case society has yet to catch up to reality.

As a result, accusations of sexism and racism need to be vigorously shut down and persecuted much like happened to actual sexism and racism, with just as much ruthless, sadisttic, enthusiasm as groups of racists like the KKK have been treated. It falls to the people who see these accusations for what they are to carry the torch until the rest of society catches up. With time I hope to see things get to the point where someone who cries "racism" is treated the same way as someone yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theater, or dealt with with as much predjudice as someone giving a speech about inherant racial superiority/inferiority.

In short, I more or less disagree with the point of this paticular strip, if anything I think the response to such accusations are not extreme enough, largely because the people making the accusations have yet to face any real repurcussions for their actions, officially or not.

jawakiller:
Damn you to hell!

Racism. Sexism... I don't see the problem. If everyone just got over themselves and developed a sense of humor this world could actually be kinda cool.

Oh my god! He just said fag! Quick, fetch me my sword of righteousness!

What?! He called that woman a female? Why would he do something so evil! Another must burn!

That's what everyone sounds like. Not kidding. Fucking losers.

And the comic was hilarious. Just in case you were wondering.

This, I gotta disagree with. Not everyone has to conform to your sense of humor, or a set sense of humor for everyone to get along. Not everyone finds the things we find funny. I'm sure there are things you don't find funny. If a random stranger came up to you and called you stupid, chances are you'll get miffed at them.

Therumancer:
Racism and sexism also provide a conveinent tool for people to blame their own failings on. If your a minority you can blame "whitey" in a nebulous sense without having to actually make much in the way of specific accusations. For a woman they can blame sexism and how it's all the men keeping them down. It's easier than to face the reality of one's limitations, or the hard work of having to fit in with society. Blaming an omnipresent, nebulous enemy is the ultimate excuse. For the most part today someone who invokes racism or sexism is in a similar boat to a sadistic seriel killer saying "well, society made me do this", it's just that in this case society has yet to catch up to reality.

As a result, accusations of sexism and racism need to be vigorously shut down and persecuted much like happened to actual sexism and racism, with just as much ruthless, sadisttic, enthusiasm as groups of racists like the KKK have been treated. It falls to the people who see these accusations for what they are to carry the torch until the rest of society catches up. With time I hope to see things get to the point where someone who cries "racism" is treated the same way as someone yelling "Fire" in a crowded movie theater, or dealt with with as much predjudice as someone giving a speech about inherant racial superiority/inferiority.

But I gotta wholeheartedly disagree with the post qouted directly above. For one thing, you pretty much said that it's minorities and women who are the one complaining, because they are usually the ones with the fallings. For one thing, white men can also blame minorities and/or women to compensate for their failings as well. It works both ways, and is seen somewhat often. Because racism and sexism exists, and it effects everyone. It isn't about minorities/women blaming everyhing on whites. That's not what racism means. Don't get me wrong, you will find plenty of minorities blaming mcuh on "whitey". I see i plenty of times. But one trip through the internet will tell you that it sorta goes both ways. I gotta roll my eyes whenever I run into a "black people suck, because they blame everything on whites, that's why they fail" posts. Racism doesn't always have to be blunt, in fyour face, KKK crap to be considered racism.

Part of the problem is that people seem to think that racism is a dead issue, and only those that talk about it are at fault. No. Racism and sexism exists very much today. On BOTH ends of the field. However, that does not mean that every issue in the world is about racism/sexism. I do think things are far too PC. Unfortunately, I also see people use tjhe "You're being too PC" card used whenever they want to claim something ill of women/minorities/majorities/whatever. Example:

A:"I think asians are filthy bastards"
B:"Please, shut up, ya moron"
A:"ZOMG CENSUSHIP! UR BEIN 2 PC!!!11!"

Which ironically is what that comic was about, heh.

But about the Dead Island "controversy", I don't think it was a huge deal, at all. However, I'm grown and mature enough to realize that it shouldn't have happend. That "feminist whore" comment had nothing to do with the game at all. It was something directly from the devs, which can make people feel uncomfortable. Duke Nukem is pretty sexist, but at least that's in character (doesn't make his game any less sucky, however. Wocka Wocka!). This...was not part of character. Sorta like a comedian who stops making jokes and starts getting serious. When it comes to comedy or fiction in general, it's sort of like a pact between the comedian and the audience, in that everything that he/she says will be part of a joke. We get that, and can laugh with them. However, the second it stops being a joke, is when that pact falters. Sorta like that incident with Kramer. It was all fun and games till he started getting serious. Ignoring the fact that he wasn't funny to begin with.

jawakiller:
Damn you to hell!

Racism. Sexism... I don't see the problem. If everyone just got over themselves and developed a sense of humor this world could actually be kinda cool.

Oh my god! He just said fag! Quick, fetch me my sword of righteousness!

What?! He called that woman a female? Why would he do something so evil! Another must burn!

That's what everyone sounds like. Not kidding. Fucking losers.

And the comic was hilarious. Just in case you were wondering.

Basically this! Everyone now a days is a hypocritical, over-zealous, self-righteous prick willing to put themselves up on a pedestal and attack others for cracking a few jokes based off of sexism or stereotypes.

Offensive? Yes, but they act like the person making such jokes holds those beliefs.

Well I'll just leave this to Noob's opinion now.

image

Still feel like being a knee-jerking, overly-sensitive hypocrite now?

Madara XIII:
Basically this! Everyone now a days is a hypocritical, over-zealous, self-righteous prick willing to put themselves up on a pedestal and attack others for cracking a few jokes based off of sexism or stereotypes.

Offensive? Yes, but they act like the person making such jokes holds those beliefs.

Well I'll just leave this to Noob's opinion now.

image

Still feel like being a knee-jerking, overly-sensitive hypocrite now?

That's the thing. If it's all in the sense of being a joke, then I'm all for it. When it's clear to the audience that it's a joke, then cool. When it ain't, then...

simple64:
[
But I gotta wholeheartedly disagree with the post qouted directly above. For one thing, you pretty much said that it's minorities and women who are the one complaining, because they are usually the ones with the fallings. For one thing, white men can also blame minorities and/or women to compensate for their failings as well. It works both ways, and is seen somewhat often. Because racism and sexism exists, and it effects everyone. It isn't about minorities/women blaming everyhing on whites. That's not what racism means. Don't get me wrong, you will find plenty of minorities blaming mcuh on "whitey". I see i plenty of times. But one trip through the internet will tell you that it sorta goes both ways. I gotta roll my eyes whenever I run into a "black people suck, because they blame everything on whites, that's why they fail" posts. Racism doesn't always have to be blunt, in fyour face, KKK crap to be considered racism.

Part of the problem is that people seem to think that racism is a dead issue, and only those that talk about it are at fault. No. Racism and sexism exists very much today. On BOTH ends of the field. However, that does not mean that every issue in the world is about racism/sexism. I do think things are far too PC. Unfortunately, I also see people use tjhe "You're being too PC" card used whenever they want to claim something ill of women/minorities/majorities/whatever. Example:

A:"I think asians are filthy bastards"
B:"Please, shut up, ya moron"
A:"ZOMG CENSUSHIP! UR BEIN 2 PC!!!11!"

Which ironically is what that comic was about, heh.

But about the Dead Island "controversy", I don't think it was a huge deal, at all. However, I'm grown and mature enough to realize that it shouldn't have happend. That "feminist whore" comment had nothing to do with the game at all. It was something directly from the devs, which can make people feel uncomfortable. Duke Nukem is pretty sexist, but at least that's in character (doesn't make his game any less sucky, however. Wocka Wocka!). This...was not part of character. Sorta like a comedian who stops making jokes and starts getting serious. When it comes to comedy or fiction in general, it's sort of like a pact between the comedian and the audience, in that everything that he/she says will be part of a joke. We get that, and can laugh with them. However, the second it stops being a joke, is when that pact falters. Sorta like that incident with Kramer. It was all fun and games till he started getting serious. Ignoring the fact that he wasn't funny to begin with.

Actually to be racist or sexist you have to believe in the inherant inferiority or superiority of one group of people compared to another (or compared to all others).

Mostly what you see today is people being judged not by their race of gender, but by their behavior. The problem with things like "political correctness" is that it causes problems to continue by preventing issues from being addressed. In the US in paticular we have a problem where tolerance has gotten to the point where minorities are not assimilating into American society as they are supposed to, and rather creating opposing counter-cultures that bring about a lot of the problems. The issue are things like say "Chinatown districts" where people who come into the US insist on living like they are in China, don't adapt to the rest of the culture, and might not even bother to learn the language, then when they cause problems due to not fitting in or themselves being offensive try and act like the majority are the bad guys. The same can be said (on various topics) about a lot of situations.

See, the thing is that where racism doesn't really exist as a mainstream phenomena, cultural conflict does, as do the people who use the boogieman of racism to reinforce those cultural divides for political purposes. The mainstream is not discriminating against minorities or women, but do have to deal with things like affirmitive action and political correctness which doesn't help assimilation and keeps the style of conflict we actually see going. The fastest way to piss someone off is to give someone else who intentionally doesn't want to even try to fit in special rights, and/or define them as being beyond criticism for their behavior.

In general your arguements come down to what in college they called the "Invisible Knapsack Theory" which has been rather solidly debunked. The "Invisible Knapsack" is the idea that there is this giant knapsack full of things that the majority takes for granted that minorities do not posses and thus form racism. Such as the simple fact that a member of the majority can ask to see the person in charge, and the odds greatly favor it being someone from their own ethnicity, and so on.

The reason why that theory has been trashed as a bunch of liberal bunk, is simply because minority groups by their very nature are outnumbered, so the odds are always going to be against them in any society where they are a minority group. This applies to everything from the people running society, to intitutions like the media and pop culture.

In general most "invisible knapsack" arguements are made using a single race in comparison to the majority, and overlook the sheer number of minorities out there. If you argue for more blacks, what about asians, hispanics, and all these other groups? You can't have one of everything in every media production or administration system. In any society where there is say one boss, the odds are going to greatly favor it's going to be from the majority. In any media production the cast is largely going to be made up of those representing the majority, and similar things. It's an impractical theory with no real connection to reality.

The point here is that there really aren't any racists in the mainstream, or any problems here, other than the have nots always argueing they should have more, and using anything to justify that position, with race or sex simply being a popular excuse. Nebulously blaming society for bigotry, or even narrowing it down to say a large company or whatever, is a way of getting attention without making much in the way of specific accusations (as in, this person is a racist, and he did this) because really there no racism involved. To find a real racist or sexist you really have to dig, and those people are rarely going to be in any kind of position of power or authority because of those same beliefs having made them pariahs.

Discussing things in a calm and collective manner on an Internet forum? You must be mad!

OutrageousEmu:

The_root_of_all_evil:
It's actually quite annoying. When there's a valid point there about how something ISN'T actually sexist/racist/petist/treeist and your local petulant douchebag agrees with you and says they should go back to the kitchen/their own country/the vet/the match-maker.

Can we just have an -ist for lame idea big mouths?

(That doesn't include me, of course)

Thats the term for it. People Who Act Like You But Do Not Include You Because You Don't Want To Think Of Yourself That Way. Or PWALYBDNIYBYDWTTOYTTies

Don't like the look of that word, looks too much like Welsh.

Some of you really seem to be missing the point.

canadamus_prime:
Discussing things in a calm and collective manner on an Internet forum? You must be mad!

Heh, I thought the exact same thing when I saw Therumancer's post on my inbox.

But on to the topic. As I don't really wanna quote all that, I'll address it here.

I've heard of the invisible knapsack theory. I have to disagree that it applies to what I was saying. My main point is that yes, racism does exist, and not in such small, insurmountable numbers. Just because it isn't in your face doesn't mean much. I also see too many people getting judged -or should I say, prejudged- off the bat because of their race. You see a woman, and you instantly think she isn't capable of the same duty as a man, and thats ignoring jobs based on physical labor. I do not think the issue is of cultural barriers.

I have to agree that said cultural barriers exist, for the exact reasons that you stated. Admittedly, there is no set lifestyle in America that you must conform too, that is the beauty of America. You can come here from India and not expect to loss you Indian values. You can move from China and not have to lose your Chinese customs. In theory (emphasis on that word, "theory") you can come as an immigrant, and not have to change yourself to be considered an American (you just can't be President). However, you cannot come here expecting things to run the way it was in your home country. You may be able to beat women in the country of Ihatewomannia, but oncer you come here, that women beating is over. Some people cannot adjust to the rules and the way others live, and expect the rules to conform to how they once lived.

That said, I do not think we are debating an issue of cultural barriers, as we can both agree it exist. Your first sentence in your post described the definition of racism/sexism. That also applies to how things going on now. For example, this post that I have quoted

Therumancer:
Racism and sexism also provide a conveinent tool for people to blame their own failings on. If your a minority you can blame "whitey" in a nebulous sense without having to actually make much in the way of specific accusations. For a woman they can blame sexism and how it's all the men keeping them down. It's easier than to face the reality of one's limitations, or the hard work of having to fit in with society.

You quoted minorites and women for blaming whites and men, respectivley, for not being able to deal with their problems. You blamed those two groups, specifically. I'm not calling you a racist or anything of the sort, but those two groups were singled out. There are plenty of whites who blame minorities for things not going their way. There are plenty of men who blame women in the office for every problem, not owning up to the fact that they may be a problem. For example, some people may say crap like "guy A got the job over me (guy B) because of affirmative action!" (I should point out that I do not support affirmative action, but this is neither the time nor the place). It isn't possible that guy A got the job over guy B...because he earned it? Things like that do exist, and it applies to everyone, from a black woman blaming a white guy to a white guy blaming an indian man.

This was fun, but I don't really wanna bog this thread with such heavy debate over things that doesn't entirely have to do with the thread. As in, I don't really wanna derail a thread, so I'll agree to disagree here. Unless the thread really gets derailed to the point that we can discuss this with no prob.

I forgot to mention one crucial thing in my post!

A big prblem with racism/sexism that I forgot to mention...is that it gets thrown around far, faaar too often. There can be legitimate cases of such, but the term gets thrown about disrespectfully to, as you said, excuse laziness and fallings of an individual. This "feminist whore" thing, while techincally sexist, isn't a reason to cry sexism to me. It IS a reason to cry immaturaty. THAT is my issue with this. It was a childish thing to do that had nothing to do with the game, even if it was in debug mode, because we do have the right to dig around there. After all, isn't that how modders make mods?

Seriously, I don't know. I'm asking.

Oh dear god, Therumancer is here? I thought I would never see him again since I stopped going to the Palladium boards.

But yeah, there might still be racism and sexism issues, but it's still wrong to engage in identity politics. At worst, only go after those who actively do racist things, not treating all straight white men as "part of the problem."

If a person really believes in equality, they will abandon identity politics and seek Instrumentality as well.

canadamus_prime:
Discussing things in a calm and collective manner on an Internet forum? You must be mad!

Madness?

image

We here on the Escapist always discuss things rationally and politely. Now pick yourself up and let's start this conversation over again.

The right way this time.

wow...... this put a great big ole smile on my face!!

Someone make this a PSA and distribute it as often as video game commercials.

This needs to be heard.

Brilliant, brilliant.

It's even worse when people accuse games of being violent. "I've been playing violent games since I was eight and it didn't make me a bit more aggressive, so shut the fuck up or I'll slice off your head with barbed wire and shove it up your ass until your stomach bursts!"

Vault Citizen:

Mark D. Stroyer:
I wholly support forum ques.

But where'd it come from this time?

Possibly the "joke" someone put in a piece of Dead Island coding, calling a female character a feminist whore in code for a skill that would do extra damage against male zombies.

lol. I heard the first part but not the Male Zombies part.

OT: Whenever a game I like is accused of such thing's I just ignore it lol. Same went with RE5. when everyone freaked about it being racist all I thought "YAY Zombie killing time!"

If I had a buck for every thread I've seen that does exactly this, I'd have enough to finance a feminist game development studio.

...yeahh always my signal to avoid forums when certain moments arise loll

Grey Carter:
Some of you really seem to be missing the point.

You put 'Sexism' in the title. As far as the universal laws of internet advocacy go, they're right on target.

Therumancer:

The point here is that there really aren't any racists in the mainstream, or any problems here, other than the have nots always argueing they should have more, and using anything to justify that position, with race or sex simply being a popular excuse.

Racism is the belief that race or ethnicity means can make you inferior or inferior, just based on whose vagina you crawled out of.

That happens.

Are you telling me, with a straight face, that it doesn't? I get what you're saying with the cultural clashes and the behavioural groups, but when I sit behind a bus driver and he tells me cheerfully that asians are really little more than animals (when the person he's not stopping for goes by 'Dazza' and has never used a chopstick), I'm pretty sure that's him believing he's better than somebody because of their race.

And if you don't think that attitude is mainstream, I want to live where you do.

Therumancer:

The point here is that there really aren't any racists in the mainstream, or any problems here, other than the have nots always argueing they should have more, and using anything to justify that position, with race or sex simply being a popular excuse.

The problem with this claim is that, to use the Dead Island example as an excuse, there is no "failing" to justify this point, nothing that the Dead Island creators have that the people pointing out that referring to a character as a "Feminist whore" is inappropriate does not. The have/have not dichotomy between those claiming sexism/racism and those who stand accused of it simply does not apply. Just as it does not apply when it comes to issues such as one that has arisen in own home country, complaints that there are too many Asian students attending college. Technically, the Asians in that scenario are the "haves", but they are also the ones being discriminated against in these writings. It is, purely and simply, bigotry.

You also fail to address with this dichotomy something I've encountered quite often as a woman in a traditionally male-dominated profession: white males using "political correctness" to justify their own failings. I.e., whinging about discrimination and sexism when a woman/minority is hired, even though that woman/minority was more qualified. It makes them feel better to cry about quotas and reverse racism (even when applying to companies/schools that have none) when they fail to make the cut, yet see that any woman/minority did. Clearly, it must have been affimative action. Clearly. In my own personal experience I've been the receiving end of this ire for receiving sought-after internship positions, and obviously this had me very concerned, so I asked my supervisors if this was true - they laughed and told me that my GPA was much, much higher than the men who were complaining.

Yet, they continue to tell this story (read: lie) over and over again to friends, coworkers, on social networking sites... and no one ever seems to question it. Of course I only got the position because I'm a girl! Of course!

Frankly, so long as your idea of persecuting those who cry racism/sexism when it doesn't apply applies equally to those crying "reverse racism" and "misandry" when they don't apply, I am all for it. We should start it today.

"Frankly, so long as your idea of persecuting those who cry racism/sexism when it doesn't apply applies equally to those crying "reverse racism" and "misandry" when they don't apply, I am all for it. We should start it today."

AMEN SISTER!

The_root_of_all_evil:
It's actually quite annoying. When there's a valid point there about how something ISN'T actually sexist/racist/petist/treeist and your local petulant douchebag agrees with you and says they should go back to the kitchen/their own country/the vet/the match-maker.

Can we just have an -ist for lame idea big mouths?

(That doesn't include me, of course)

I love it when I have to facepalm and say "pelase don't help me."

I won't touch this with a 10 foot pole.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Jack Dee is one of my favourite comedians.

My wife is a big fan of Jo Brand who's quite possibly the most hilarious female comedienne i've seen while managing to be completely sexist towards men.

One of her best lines "I'm happily married ..... not sure about my husband".

Sarah Millican also has her moments but is still hilarious.

I don't think you can accuse comedians of actual sexism and/or racism unless you take comedy far too seriously which is the exact opposite of what comedy should be viewed as.

I'll use Frankie Boyle as an example. Some of the material he uses is so tongue in cheek yet it's still just comedy. He has the shock value because he uses jokes nobody else would touch, even Chubby Brown avoids most of the material Frankie uses. Yet he's constantly in the shit for one comment or another despite the fact he's only saying it for a giggle.

Some people just take things far too seriously.

That reminds me, are any of you lady folk single? =P

There sure has been an unapologetic flow of honking from civil rights groups on games that portray minorities and genders in a less than favorable light, but then again these are the same people who just want to push their stories out there into the public light, and this is the only means through which they can accomplish that. So in a weird way, the people they're calling out are spreading awareness of the topic. How thin the line is between enemy and benefactor.

Is it just me, or did the punchline fly right over the head of an alarming amount of people?

Personally, I only take offense if something outright makes a sexist/racist comment. If it is being done as a joke, just let it the frak be, getting bent up over a joke, be it mean or poorly conceived, is just childish no matter what stance you try to take with it. It's like the idiot balloon that popped over RE5, just because "white guy is killing black guys". And everyone ignored the whole fact they were zombies/infected. Of course, that village part was pushing things, but even still the crap that hit fans over that games was just mind numbing.

Then of course you have the ever going arguement of "sexy female characters" in games as being sexist. To some extent, it is sexist to make all potentially likable females in a game sex objects, but unfortunately "sex sells" as the saying goes. It can't really be fought. Of course then you get the foolish arguement that "women don't objectify men", which is bogus. Both sexes are equally guilty of objectifying the other. It may be true that men held more power over women in many cultures in the past, but that hardly excuses the double-standard of "We can act goofy about guys, but make a remark about women and get ready to have your throat slit."

Agreed. Just. Agreed.

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