No Right Answer: Worst Father Ever

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Can someone explain to me how Ozai 'supposed to be evil' counts as points in his favor for being a better father?

He had to be CONVINCED not to kill his kid, and then he still made the attempt later.

How does that win out over simple neglect/oafishness?

Firefilm:
Worst Father Ever

The boys force Dan to edit an episode all about Anime. This has resulted in Dan refusing to pick a winner. Go on our twitter, post on our boards, and mail us seductive pictures to choose the winner on this week's debate between Ozai and Goku for worst father ever.

Watch Video

Chris wins Goku is a way worse father, here's why.

Ozai is an evil bastard, but when his son called out his bad tactics he "only" scarred him for life and banished him from his home. if it was anyone else who called him out, they would have been dead like that* (I snapped my fingers, you couldn't hear it)

Goku is the selfless savior of the world and the entire universe many times over, and is only neglectful to his sons and wife. And to top it all off he gave Cell a sensu bean before Gohan fought with him. What kind of a father is that? A bad one, no, the worst one.

Out of the two I'd say Goku but worst father in Anime is the Shinigami from Soul Eater.
In the manga his son is trapped by a new enemy and being tortured only to later come. So to plan a rescue operation him and his closest colleagues decide to have a party and invite girls from the local hostess club to serve them booze.
even better is the fan theory that Death the Kid (The son of the Shinigami) was trapped for a full year and there was a slight timeskip in the manga, to justify the more mature look to all the main character.
So in the time the Shinigami is doing nothing, Kid is tortured physically (he didn't mind though) and psychologically only to eventually come face to face with a Ctuhulu-like monster due to his own insanity.
Good job, Mr. Death

Okay, I'll contend that Goku is not "father of the year". He's certainly not a great dad. But, he does have a lot of world saving to get done, so that's probably part of it. I'm certain Superman would be a horrible father, too. Just think about it. Moviebob even did an episode about why Superman should be single. Just extend that to why he should never have children.

Anyway, my vote is definitely for Ozai. He not only scarred and banished his own eldest child and son, but have you seen Azula? She's a psychopath! There's no way you can't blame that on her father. He favored her from an early age and pretty much let her get away with anything. He even sent his daughter to arrest his son (start of season 2). I could write a novel on how many screwed up things he has done to both his kids.

emeraldrafael:

While I'll agree with most of what you said, I feel one small thing needs to be addressed. You say that Gohan spared Cell. He didn't. Gohan was not trying to give Cell a chance to make amends. Hell, even Goku wanted Gohan to kill Cell. Gohan made the choice to NOT kill Cell because he wanted to make Cell suffer.
Here's the page from manga reader. (sorry the quality isn't better on this one)
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3061-2/dragon-ball/chapter-412.html

And in case you're wondering why Gohan would have such an uncharacteristic moment as this, it's actually quite easy. The Super Saiyan form is a form of anger and rage. Even Goku had trouble maintaining his composure, at first. The initial transformation generally requires a great deal of anger, which is one problem. But it's been stated that they all become more aggressive, angry, and even spiteful in their Super Saiyan states. That includes Goku and Gohan.

Just trying to maintain a level of factual accuracy.
I know way too much about this series...

newwiseman:

emeraldrafael:

Aprilgold:
... *why there aren't any Female saiyans* ... Seriously, the only thing I don't approve of is him dying to go train when there were other options, like, I don't know, GUNS FOR GODS SAKE!

Isnt Pan a saiyan? and I could have swore that Vegeta's daughter (bulla?) is one.

Plus theres an entire planet of them, and I saw a few females. There was even one in bardock (gokus father)'s crew. Now are there any Female super saiyans, i have no idea. I think only Pan would be, but I might be wrong.

Also, guns against who? A gun didnt work agaisnt Raditz, and havent been shown to work on any of the people that came to earth to destroy it (though oddly swords do), so I wouldnt imaginea gun is a good idea.

Because Toriyama, along with being racist, is sexist. He stated females can't be super sayians in an interview. *edit oh and they all died with the planet Vegeta, but ya Pan is a quarter and Bulla is half. That is if you follow the GT canon.

Where did you hear that? As I heard it, Toriyama has said that only those that are half saiyan or more can become Super Saiyans. In other words, Pan can not be a Super Saiyan, but Bra/Bulla technically could. However, she doesn't fight and is more of a spoiled brat, kinda like Bulma. Therefore, she doesn't have the strenght required. I believe it's been stated that Saiyans need a certain minimum power to even be able to become Super Saiyans or their body won't be able to handle the stress of the transformation. Also, Saiyans have to have pure hearts to become Super Saiyans. Goku is pure good and Vegeta was pure evil. I doubt Bra/Bulla could count as either. And finally the Super Saiyan form can only be achieved by a true need. You can't simply want it. Like when Goku became a Super Saiyan after Frieza killed Krillin. Something else I doubt Bra/Bulla would ever have occur as she's more a shopper than a fighter.

Rappletek:
your both wrong, Darth vader.. anime sucks
(so does star wars a little bit)

This. Who cares if he came around just in time to die. He still murders a whole bunch of children and his daughter's home planet.

Ozai is worse, at least Goku's a nice guy (toward the rest of the world)...

As Goku is a personal hero of mine, I'm resisting the urge to rage on you for even considering him as a candidate for this. Instead I'll just point out that you've ignored at least two time skips that occurred during the series during which time Goku was at home with his wife and kids. 3 if you want to count the 5 year gap between the original series and Dragon Ball Z.

Saltyk:
...

emeraldrafael:
snip

While I'll agree with most of what you said, I feel one small thing needs to be addressed. You say that Gohan spared Cell. He didn't. Gohan was not trying to give Cell a chance to make amends. Hell, even Goku wanted Gohan to kill Cell. Gohan made the choice to NOT kill Cell because he wanted to make Cell suffer.
Here's the page from manga reader. (sorry the quality isn't better on this one)
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3061-2/dragon-ball/chapter-412.html

And in case you're wondering why Gohan would have such an uncharacteristic moment as this, it's actually quite easy. The Super Saiyan form is a form of anger and rage. Even Goku had trouble maintaining his composure, at first. The initial transformation generally requires a great deal of anger, which is one problem. But it's been stated that they all become more aggressive, angry, and even spiteful in their Super Saiyan states. That includes Goku and Gohan.

Just trying to maintain a level of factual accuracy.
I know way too much about this series...

...

Oh, sorry. Its been a while since I watched the show. But i think i was spot on with most of it. aside from him sparing cell. at least on the personality level.

emeraldrafael:

Saltyk:
...

emeraldrafael:
snip

While I'll agree with most of what you said, I feel one small thing needs to be addressed. You say that Gohan spared Cell. He didn't. Gohan was not trying to give Cell a chance to make amends. Hell, even Goku wanted Gohan to kill Cell. Gohan made the choice to NOT kill Cell because he wanted to make Cell suffer.
Here's the page from manga reader. (sorry the quality isn't better on this one)
http://www.mangareader.net/105-3061-2/dragon-ball/chapter-412.html

And in case you're wondering why Gohan would have such an uncharacteristic moment as this, it's actually quite easy. The Super Saiyan form is a form of anger and rage. Even Goku had trouble maintaining his composure, at first. The initial transformation generally requires a great deal of anger, which is one problem. But it's been stated that they all become more aggressive, angry, and even spiteful in their Super Saiyan states. That includes Goku and Gohan.

Just trying to maintain a level of factual accuracy.
I know way too much about this series...

...

Oh, sorry. Its been a while since I watched the show. But i think i was spot on with most of it. aside from him sparing cell. at least on the personality level.

No worries. I only know because with all the DBZ themed things out there, like Team Four Star's Dragonball Z Abridged, I got interested to watch a few old episodes. I had completely forgotten that Gohan wanted to make Cell suffer as well. It kinda shocked me. Also, checked the manga and it is definitely canon. I got curious as to why and found the wiki. Gotta love the internet!

Goku. But in his defense, he kind of tries to help Gohan even though he's horrible at it. He only has good intentions, but that of an oblivious 5-year-old. Sure Ozai's a dick, but you kind of have to be in his position.

Goku is fucking terrible as a father, but Ozai wins. He is WILLING to hurt Zuko, Goku just wants to knock him down.

Dragonball Z is the best anime ever by the way. Couldn't help the fanboyism, sorry.

I like dan, he doesn't like anime. but if i had to pick between either of these characters, i'd pick ozai. at least goku was a nice person at heart. if my dad scorched my face, kicked me out of the house, and was essentially hitler going world conquest, i'd fuckin kill him.

if i was a embarrassed to be around my dad 24/7 cuz he's pretty eccentric, i wouldn't mind a little distance. but i don't see why goku making gohan fight is a problem. if i was a sayain and i had a son, i'd make sure i'd raise my son like a proper sayain making sure he has the ability to do super power shit. it's like the spartans and their sons;

Leonidas-"what a glorious day for combat, so what are you up to my son? readying for battle?"
his son-"i'm gonna be a famous singer and i'll one day sing for all of greece!"
Leonidas-" =_= i am dissapoint".

ozai's son, i forget their wierd anime names, was being raised the way ozai wanted him to, and then BAM, face melter fuck u out the door. i'd be fucking pissed.

Goku is definitely the worst father. For all the reasons stated before this post.

Ozai is bad, but not goku bad.

Ozai...why is this even a debate?
Ozai tries to kill Zuko multiple times.
He's made of "the stuff guys need" ads.("the stuff guys need" ads = Pure Evil)

Goku on the other hand saves the World multiple times...which saves his son.
Sure he's stupid and nearly get kills Gohon killed a few times, but he always made decisions to save the world and those whom he loves.

Another note:
Saiyans are commonly 'abandoned' at birth and sent off to other planets to wipe out all life.
It's part of Saiyan culture to grow up without parents.

They are both pretty bad fathers...but Ozai is Definitely worse.

Btw:
Both of these shows are my favorite 'anime'.
Though I'm not sure Avatar counts as an anime...sure it has heavy influences from Japanese anime...
but I still think it's anime style and not true anime.

Screw Dan, ATLA is a very good show, irrespective of whether it's anime or not, and his dismissal of it out of hand speaks poorly of him.

But yeah, Ozai goes out of his way to be a dick while Goku is just negligent.

Oh man, this was one of the best episodes yet. Even Dan really shined. Too bad he shirked his judge duties.

I'll refrain from answering, since it's hard to tell which is worse, criminally oblivious, or just criminal.

DarkRyter:
Also, Avatar ain't Japanese. Not anime. Not like it matters, though.

restoshammyman:
"anime is dumb". sorry to break it to ya. avatar is not anime. it was made by Nickelodeon

Eabus:
1. Anime is from Japan, avatar is not from Japan so it is anime-ish

GoWithDAFro:
1. Avatar is not anime. seriously.

http://www.answers.com/topic/anime

Anime is a style. Thus the country a show was made in makes no difference in whether it can be considered anime or not; what matters is whether the style of the show is consistent with the anime style (which Avatar is fairly consistent with).

OT: Gendou Ikari has to be the worst anime father ever, but between these two...I think I'd say Goku. Ozai was a dick to Zuko, but he spoiled Azula like many normal fathers might, so he demonstrated that he *does* understand the concept of (comparatively) normal parenting. Goku consistently put all of his children in some sort of danger, mostly involving pitting them against foes they had no business fighting against. Sure he died for his family a few times, but that's partially because of the Dragon Balls, and partially because he's an idiot and can't strategize outside of "Imma fight this dude by punching. Hopefully it works" and "I can't beat this dude by punching so Imma die and take him out with me. Hopefully it works."

Also I think endangering your kids without even being cognicent of the fact that you're doing it is worse than purposefully doing it, because knowing that it's happening at least allows for the possiblity to change things; if you don't know/think that anything wrong's going on, then nothing will change.

Ozai.

End of story.

gotta go with Ozai on this

Ozai

Ya Goku was negligent but Ozai was a dick on purpose, I dont think Goku realized what he was doing.

Definitely Ozai. Goku at least tries to be a good father. He's just an idiot.

Oh Dan, give in to the anime. The anime is good.

Sometimes.

And yeah, definitely Ozai. Goku may not be around a lot, but he's still pretty awesome. Ozai is just a dick. :(

Given all of the facts presented, I would have to declare the winner to be...

Dan.

Gotta go with Ozai. Don't forget, when Zuko was to be hunted as a traitor, the bastard sent his own sister to kill him. How's that for messed up?

Plus, you know, he was voiced by Mark Hamill. So win win for Ozai: The Pheonix King.

Ozai was definitely the worse father. While Goku really wasn't around very much for Gohan's childhood, everything he did was still for the sake of Gohan and the rest of his family and friends. In many cases, if Goku had not done what he did, Gohan would have fallen into a far worse fate.

Contrast this to Ozai, who basically treated his son as an enemy the moment Zuko lifted a finger in criticism. Kyle made a far better point in that while Goku's absence may have ended up putting Gohan into some perilous situations, Ozai drove Zuko away, with the consequence of Zuko defecting to the other side willingly to spite him. Now THAT's some bad parenting!

while Goku is kind of neglectful of his son, he has good intentions.
Ozai however, is a monster he pourposely SCARRED AND BANISHED HIS OWN SON! for what? independant thinking?

I'd say that people who do wrong intentionally are worse than those who do wrong unintentially.

I don't know Dragon Ball Z, so that's the main reason I pick Ozai.

Rarhnor:

Ozai, while incredibly mean and downright evil to his own son, takes care of his other child Azula. Sure, Ozai is a bad father to Zuko, but not to Azula whom gets pandering and encouragement from him.

I'm afraid I don't agree that Ozai is a good father even to Azula. He doesn't care about her either, he uses her because he knows he can.
The only reason Ozai pays any attention to Azula at all, is because she is a Firebending prodigy, something he can use for political and military ends.
So , while his wife was making sure their son was getting any love at all (Ozai wasn't going to waste time on a son that he had no use for), Ozai decided to "pick up the slack" where Azula was concerned, by encouraging her manipulativeness and cruelty.
This way, she was loyal to him (as far as she's concerned he's the oly one who "cared" about her: i.e. paid attention to her) and she grew up to be an excellent strategist, political schemer, and a Firebending master, who did everything Ozai told her to do.

Come on people.

Ozai burned his son's face!
That's beyond reasoning!

Sure goku might send his (very capable) son into battle, but that's because Gohan kicks major ass!

Zuko is a little frightened kid that got fucked by his dad in every possible way, neglect, abuse, banishment, attempted murder.

Ozai sucks!

(And everyone here (that loves DBZ) wished Goku was their father anyway, no matter how small his attention span is)

They are both bad but Ozai burned part of his sons face off then threw him out so I have to go for Ozai

Gendo Ikari...seriously, why wasn't he in the choices?
I now pronounce you both guilty! Of not using the obvious!
Sentence: DEATH! BY GENDOWNED!!!

I'm gonna have to vote Team Dan on this one. I would ask "who cares?" on this. But only so I could point and laugh at everyone who raises their hand.

Much as I think Ozai's a dick for scarring and abandoning Zuko in one fell swoop, I gotta give this one to Goku. Seriously, his own son chose an alien, Goku's WORST ENEMY before the Saiyan Saga, over him on multiple occasions. That's really saying something, right there.

Ozai,

Goku means well. He's really just kind of socailly retarded. Social escapades simply asides in between big battles and anybody he emotionally scarred in the process was not intentional. [Involuntary Manslaughter Dad]

Ozai knew what he was doing. He had no tolerance for his less-than-perfect son Zuko and acted accordingly. [Murder 1 Dad]

I'm voting goku.

You guys should let the audience vote more.

Definitely Dan should he ever have children. :P

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