Unskippable: Metroid: Other M Part 1

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sumanai:
Seriously, watch the videos that Warachia linked to.

I did. The guy lost his argument (when referencing Fusion) very early on when he said "and from this we can extrapolate that Samus..." and the rest is unimportant. See, that's what HE got out of examining her actions. But about 2 dozen other interpretations of her actions are possible at least, and he refused to see that possibility. He ignored the values he didn't want and projected the values that he wanted to believe about her and let that define her since there were no contradictory insights into her character given (until OM.) That's the same mistake all of those people made, they did not accept the possibility that they were just wrong about Samus' motivations and personality. And that possibility was always there. And Fusion (as much as everyone is pointing to it as the "defining" game) was no different, it always leaves that kind of values judgment to the player. There's always another reason she could have been making the choices she did. Prime is irrelevant in judging Samus character in OM, it happens after OM and therefore any personality it assigns her could have come after any learning experiences she may have had in OM or afterword. And by the way, there's nothing wrong with making those kind of value judgments about undefined characters, people do it all the time. The folly is finding fault with the storyteller when you find out you were wrong about the personality you projected on a blank slate character. I didn't imagine Samus as such a potentially flawed and emotionally scarred character, but then again I didn't whine and cry when I found out she was. Ultimately when a previously un-defined character is finally given a personality and backstory, one is left with 2 choices. Enjoy the story for what it is (and hope it gets better as it goes along as I have,) or pack it up and go home. If someone doesn't like Metroid anymore because they can't respect or identify with Samus I don't have a problem with that. It kills immersion when you can't identify with a character, that's why videogames are so full of silent protagonists. But finding fault with the story team for somehow "not getting the character right" when they were the first ones to define her character... that's pretty ridiculous. Despite other problems that they had with the storytelling (the framing device for removing Samus powerups and the pushing the "baby" symbolism so hard a 6 year old could understand it) one thing they couldn't get wrong was Samus' character. They were the first to define it in such detail that the player could not define it themselves any way they wanted. Maybe they shouldn't have, and just should have left her a blank slate. But I won't blame them for trying something different. Choosing not to innovate in any way would have denied us the entire Prime series and leads to the kind of thinking that produces "Game X" "numbered sequel" X's Revenge. We see far too much of that these days.

Kyrian007:

sumanai:
Seriously, watch the videos that Warachia linked to.

I did. The guy lost his argument (when referencing Fusion) very early on when he said "and from this we can extrapolate that Samus..." and the rest is unimportant.

Okay, that's not true AT ALL. Logical extrapolation from existing and observable actions does NOT become nullified simply because it takes a smidgen of brain power to make the connection.

As the Extra Credits guys stated, "Actions" are what define a character, and we've had nearly 10 Metroid games where Samus has been defined chiefly by her actions. The problem that arises is that these actions don't sync up with the personality and actions demonstrated in Other M.

Kyrian007:
See, that's what HE got out of examining her actions. But about 2 dozen other interpretations of her actions are possible at least, and he refused to see that possibility. He ignored the values he didn't want and projected the values that he wanted to believe about her and let that define her since there were no contradictory insights into her character given (until OM.)

Again, I disagree. If Samus had had, perhaps, just one solitary game from the NES, I might be inclined to agree with you, but time and time and time again, Samus has been developed and fleshed out, beyond just her dialogue and characterization in Fusion.

It is not projection to say that Samus committed genocide against the Metroid race, it is not opinion to say Samus voluntarily chose a profession of isolation and danger, it is not open to discussion whether or not she's saved entire races of creatures, killed Ridley multiple times, and blew up entire planets in her wake, it is not conjecture to say Samus has endured many of these ordeals with strength, virtue, courage, intelligence, and sheer determination. Those are not open to debate; those are FACTS, facts which are reinforced from Metroid to Metroid Prime to Prime 2 to Prime 3 to Metroid 2 to Super Metroid to Fusion.

Other M is FULL of contradictions to how Samus behaves. Ever play Zero Mission? Ever fight Ridley? How did Samus look when Ridley attacked her? Bear in mind, this was when she was extremely young, and canonically this was her first mission and first time battling Ridley.
image
Yeah, that doesn't look ANYTHING like a Samus that's about to curl up into a ball, have a minute-long freakout hissy fit, and freeze up in fear while begging for help. That expression says so much more than a minute-long monologue; it is one of resolution, shock, anger, defiance... it is NOT one of helplessness, crippling fear, or being intimidated.

Why do you think the very phrase "actions speak LOUDER than words" exists? If Samus says "Adam is worth respecting and following" and yet Adam does nothing to warrant this, Adam's actions speak louder than Samus's words.

Kyrian007:
That's the same mistake all of those people made, they did not accept the possibility that they were just wrong about Samus' motivations and personality. And that possibility was always there. And Fusion (as much as everyone is pointing to it as the "defining" game) was no different, it always leaves that kind of values judgment to the player. There's always another reason she could have been making the choices she did.

Again, certain behavior don't make SENSE with Samus's new personality (such as the Zero Mission scene above). I think YOU'RE the one looking too deeply into the possibility that over 25 years of character development, which nearly every Metroid fan was in agreement about, are suddenly thrown out the window with the release of one new game because we've all been mistaken and Samus was a timid little submissive dimwit this whole time.

And many things in Fusion are NOT left "to the judgment of the player". Samus outright STATES she is "someone who dislikes taking orders"; that is a character-defining trait established in Fusion, yet in Other M she bends over backwards like a trained seal to do anything and everything Adam commands her to do, when he commands her to do it, to the point of, well, burning alive for no good reason in the lava level because he didn't tell her to PROTECT herself. That's a HUGE contradiction.

Then look at the contradictions between how your own ALLIES treat her. In Metroid Prime 3, in the military, she is respected. Soldiers come up to her and go "Wow! It's an honor to meet you!" and "You're THE Samus Aran? No way!". The game even ends with the commander in charge (hey hey! A male authority figure who gives you commands!... but his commands make SENSE!) giving Samus a very respectful and grateful salute.

Now look at Other M; she's treated like a child running with scissors. Nobody trusts her. She gets picked on, talked down to, verbally and physically abused, and even at the very, very end of the game, she gets intimidated and mocked by the military doofus that shows up. That does NOT sync up with the way Samus was treated by the military in prior games.

But, even if you're right (and I don't believe you are), and we all were wrong, and this is the "real" Samus... well, then it's not an improvement in the slightest. Rather, as a girl gamer with barely a single strong female game heroine to relate to and admire, it's an enormous and regressive step back that paints Samus as a stupid Bella Swan that's in dire need of male acceptance while struggling with mommy issues and needing brave, swarthy men to keep saving her when she starts acting hysterical. So even if this was the very first game to come out, and Samus had no prior characterization, the personality they saddled her with is derisively, if unintentionally, sexist, demeaning, unlikeable, annoying, and dis-empowering, and that's regardless of gender. People would say Master Chief lost his balls if he did the same thing.

Kyrian007:
Prime is irrelevant in judging Samus character in OM, it happens after OM and therefore any personality it assigns her could have come after any learning experiences she may have had in OM or afterword.

Once again, this is incorrect. The Prime Trilogy takes place between Metroid 1 and Metroid 2, which themselves take place before Super Metroid, Fusion, and, of course, Other M. That was confirmed in the Metroid timeline in my Prime trilogy game, as well as by both Nintendo and Retro Studios, so, well, that means you have two options now.

1) Take the Prime games into consideration, which hurts your arguments that she learned from Other M to become the more mature person you JUST admitted she became in the Prime games...

or

2) Throw out the Prime games entirely, because their depiction of Samus and the views others have of her does not correlate to Other M's portrayals.

Kyrian007:
And by the way, there's nothing wrong with making those kind of value judgments about undefined characters, people do it all the time. The folly is finding fault with the storyteller when you find out you were wrong about the personality you projected on a blank slate character.

We've been over this. She was not a blank slate character. She had an actively established and explored personality in several of these past games preceding Other M. Watch the Extra Credits episode for more examples.

Kyrian007:
I didn't imagine Samus as such a potentially flawed and emotionally scarred character, but then again I didn't whine and cry when I found out she was.

Then you obviously were clueless about Samus as a character. I wouldn't cry and whine if Batman suddenly started wearing Wonder Womans's outfit and lady's make-up due to psychological trauma from his parent's death years ago, not if I had no idea who Batman was. But, well, Batman as a character is very much established, and fans would most CERTAINLY whine and cry about it because they DO know Batman's past, and a twist like that would not be widely accepted. Samus, once again, WAS defined in prior games, and these alterations should be criticized and addressed.

Kyrian007:
Ultimately when a previously un-defined character...

We've been over this... saying she was undefined is untrue and shows you either didn't play enough Metroid games or didn't pay close enough attention.

Kyrian007:
...is finally given a personality and backstory, one is left with 2 choices. Enjoy the story for what it is (and hope it gets better as it goes along as I have,) or pack it up and go home.

So, are you seriously telling me Metroid fans have two choices? Like it, or shut up and go away? You must not do much creative work, because that's the WORST way to handle feedback. If people had done that, they would have murdered the Devil May Cry series when DMC2 came out, sucked horribly, and people demanded a return of the more beloved Dante and gameplay for DMC3. When Twisted Metal went sour with TM3&TM4, fans complained bitterly, and the series returned to its successful, critically acclaimed roots with Twisted Metal Black. When Mortal Kombat went on a tailspin with terrible games, they rebounded with the newest game, to high critical and commercial success, under the motto, even, of "give the fans what they've been asking for."

If you love a brand, as I do, and love a character, such as Samus, keeping silent or pretending to like it is the WORST thing to do. As someone that adores Metroid, adores Samus, and respects Nintendo, I would say it's actually our duty to inform them directly about how we feel.

And I have. I've e-mailed them. I told them precisely what I did, and did not, like. After all, the creator of the game asked as much of me. The creator, Yoshio Sakamoto, flat-out ASKED for feedback. Your advice (enjoy it or move on) goes contrary to his wishes.

Kyrian007:
If someone doesn't like Metroid anymore because they can't respect or identify with Samus I don't have a problem with that. It kills immersion when you can't identify with a character, that's why videogames are so full of silent protagonists.

I would actually say the era of the silent protagonist is nearly gone. I can almost count on one hand all the "silent" protagonists we have left (Gordan Freeman, some Halo heroes, Link), but nearly everyone else in this modern gaming age is voiced or given personalities. The reason we continue to play games like Gears of War, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, etc., is because you can STILL identify and relate to certain characters, even if they have expressive personalities.

Again, I'm a woman... 99% of all video games star male characters. Does that mean I can't relate to Solid Snake, or immerse myself as Cloud in Final Fantasy VII, or understand and enjoy playing as a hyper-macho Gears of War meathead? Can a man never enjoy or understand a Tomb Raider game because Lara Croft is female, with a British voice, and a background different from their own?

Kyrian007:
But finding fault with the story team for somehow "not getting the character right" when they were the first ones to define her character... that's pretty ridiculous.

So's claiming that Other M was the first one to define her character. Seriously, play more Metroid games. There exists more than Other M. Refresh your memory about certain events if you have, or at least pay attention to the story between blasting monsters. Just because the games didn't have 2 hours of cutscenes and the gameplay was king did not mean the story, and Samus's character, was non-existent.

Kyrian007:
Despite other problems that they had with the storytelling (the framing device for removing Samus powerups and the pushing the "baby" symbolism so hard a 6 year old could understand it) one thing they couldn't get wrong was Samus' character.

And yet, they did. Oh, boy did they ever.

Kyrian007:
They were the first to define it in such detail that the player could not define it themselves any way they wanted.

Again, that was never the problem. She's been defined very clearly in the past in a way that players can't define certain details for themselves (such as "I dislike taking orders")and we were more than okay with that. It's the contradictions and regressive treatment she received that upset most of us.

Kyrian007:
Maybe they shouldn't have, and just should have left her a blank slate.

She wasn't a blank slate.

Kyrian007:
But I won't blame them for trying something different. Choosing not to innovate in any way would have denied us the entire Prime series and leads to the kind of thinking that produces "Game X" "numbered sequel" X's Revenge. We see far too much of that these days.

I only partially agree. I AM a game designer as my chosen profession, and innovation is the lifeblood of the industry. But there's also such a thing as reasonable innovation and unnecessary alterations.

See, for all that Prime did differently, the guts of the game are near identical to Super Metroid. The music, sound effects, non-linear exploration, puzzles, powers, enemies, upgrades, and atmosphere are pure Metroid. The way the game is played is exactly the same as Super Metroid, just from a first-person perspective. Was it a gamble? Yes, but Metroid fans such as myself enjoyed the game because it was still everything we wanted from a Metroid game. Our fears that it would become an action-driven shooter game that shunned exploration, self-discovery, speed running, and puzzle-solving were proven unfounded.

Guess what Other M is? An action-driven shooter game that shunned exploration, self-discover, speed running, and puzzle-solving in favor of a catastrophically bad narrative, bloated cutscenes, arbitrary linearity (complete with pointless dead ends and hair-pulling, pace-killing pixel-hunts), and that blasted authorization system that robbed any self of self-empowerment or reward from the game (earning a suit feature or power is always more rewarding than having some guy restrict them then give them to you piece-meal when he FEELS like it).

Sure, making a game that looks, sounds, feels, and plays unlike any Metroid game in the past is a gamble. But it was also a stupid gamble. They tossed out the things people loved, things even MODERN games took inspiration from (you'd better believe Batman: Arkham Asylum followed the Metroid formula to a fault). That's like going to Vegas to the roulette table and betting your life savings all on black. Yes, it's a gamble. Yes, that boldness is commendable. No, it's still a stupid, stupid thing to do.

Ultimately, you just echo everything Movie Bob has said in the past, and his entire argument hinges on the fact that he believes, as you seem to, that Samus has no prior characterization, that she was a blank slate, and that Other M was the bold, innovative attempt to fill the void, and thus SOMETHING is better than NOTHING.

I don't believe that. I, like others, don't believe ANY character development is better than little to none, just as I also don't believe that Samus lacked character development in the past nor that she lacked an established personality. Several people have countered and deconfirmed that misinformed perception, from the Extra Credits people, to the Elephant in the Room article, to the Heavens to Bob rebuff, to even the Prime guys at Retro Studios (who had some amazing interviews about how hard they worked to show off Samus's personality through body language, clever cutscenes, and gameplay).

image
This woman, this strong, smart, capable, amiable, powerful, independent, confident warrior woman with a zest for life and a penchant for doing the impossible, as has been established in prior games... this woman does not exist in Other M. And the gaming world is the lesser for her absence.

Trishbot:
Okay, that's not true AT ALL. Logical extrapolation from existing and observable actions does NOT become nullified simply because it takes a smidgen of brain power to make the connection.

As the Extra Credits guys stated, "Actions" are what define a character, and we've had nearly 10 Metroid games where Samus has been defined chiefly by her actions. The problem that arises is that these actions don't sync up with the personality and actions demonstrated in Other M.

It wasn't at all my point that it was invalidated because it took thought to come to that conclusion. He was wrong because he refused to acknowledge that other intrepretations of those judged actions were also valid.

Trishbot:
Again, I disagree. If Samus had had, perhaps, just one solitary game from the NES, I might be inclined to agree with you, but time and time and time again, Samus has been developed and fleshed out, beyond just her dialogue and characterization in Fusion.

It is not projection to say that Samus committed genocide against the Metroid race, it is not opinion to say Samus voluntarily chose a profession of isolation and danger, it is not open to discussion whether or not she's saved entire races of creatures, killed Ridley multiple times, and blew up entire planets in her wake, it is not conjecture to say Samus has endured many of these ordeals with strength, virtue, courage, intelligence, and sheer determination. Those are not open to debate; those are FACTS, facts which are reinforced from Metroid to Metroid Prime to Prime 2 to Prime 3 to Metroid 2 to Super Metroid to Fusion.

It is indeed not projection to say Samus has committed genocide, chose to become a bounty hunter, saved lives, killed Ridley, and blew up planets. It is projection to assign any motivation for doing those things (saving self-preservation) to Samus. That's where anyone's interpretation is as good as everyone else. I'm also of the belief that Samus shows remarkable strength and courage in having accomplished the things she did. But I'm not arrogant enough to proclaim that Samus is those things and nothing more and no one else who may have a different opinion based upon an interepretation of her actions is immediately wrong.

Trishbot:
Again, certain behavior don't make SENSE with Samus's new personality (such as the Zero Mission scene above). I think YOU'RE the one looking too deeply into the possibility that over 25 years of character development, which nearly every Metroid fan was in agreement about, are suddenly thrown out the window with the release of one new game because we've all been mistaken and Samus was a timid little submissive dimwit this whole time.

I'll just say I find there is a wider middle ground between finding out Samus isn't an emotionless robot and dismissing her as a "submissive dimwit" than everyone seems to believe. It is possible for someone to have emotions and potential psychological weaknesses (or in other words, be human) without being a "timid dimwit."

Trishbot:
And many things in Fusion are NOT left "to the judgment of the player". Samus outright STATES she is "someone who dislikes taking orders"; that is a character-defining trait established in Fusion, yet in Other M she bends over backwards like a trained seal to do anything and everything Adam commands her to do, when he commands her to do it, to the point of, well, burning alive for no good reason in the lava level because he didn't tell her to PROTECT herself. That's a HUGE contradiction.

Too much is made about this framing device choice. It wasn't the best way to handle providing reason for exploration in the game, no. But how many more times can they get away with the "trip and broke my powerups even though I'm getting shot at and smashed up for hours in a row later and never break my powerups then, tee hee" method that is popular in the rest of the series? And the lava room? She took a little damage (oh no, she doesn't do that in every other room in the game) got to the next room, used the freakin REGENERATING health (a feature I actually DID hate) and moved on. It literally took a few seconds to get thru this one part of the game that so many people focus so much hate on. If this actually gave anyone any trouble getting thru the game... be a better gamer, it was a cakewalk.

Trishbot:
Then look at the contradictions between how your own ALLIES treat her. In Metroid Prime 3, in the military, she is respected. Soldiers come up to her and go "Wow! It's an honor to meet you!" and "You're THE Samus Aran? No way!".

This and the other complaint about the timeline. I stand corrected, I really did think prime came later and I was wrong.

Trishbot:
Now look at Other M; she's treated like a child running with scissors. Nobody trusts her. She gets picked on, talked down to, verbally and physically abused, and even at the very, very end of the game, she gets intimidated and mocked by the military doofus that shows up. That does NOT sync up with the way Samus was treated by the military in prior games.

To be fair, she did just blow up a planet. Trust issues and "running with scissors" kid gloves could be understandable. Picked on and talked down to? Other than Adam that stuff rolled right off of her, and we'll get to that.

Trishbot:
But, even if you're right (and I don't believe you are), and we all were wrong, and this is the "real" Samus... well, then it's not an improvement in the slightest. Rather, as a girl gamer with barely a single strong female game heroine to relate to and admire, it's an enormous and regressive step back that paints Samus as a stupid Bella Swan that's in dire need of male acceptance while struggling with mommy issues and needing brave, swarthy men to keep saving her when she starts acting hysterical. So even if this was the very first game to come out, and Samus had no prior characterization, the personality they saddled her with is derisively, if unintentionally, sexist, demeaning, unlikeable, annoying, and dis-empowering, and that's regardless of gender. People would say Master Chief lost his balls if he did the same thing.

Just because someone suffers from some abandonment issues that doesn't justify "dire need of male acceptance while struggling with mommy issues and needing brave, swarthy men to keep saving her when she starts acting hysterical." Having respect and regard for someone who was an authority figure in your life isn't a weakness just because that person happens to be of a different gender. Maybe it's just that I'm a guy, but I didn't read any of the "sexist, demenaning, and dis-empowering stuff into any of the storyline. And I don't play Halo (well, the first one a little) but if Master Chief retired and then showed regard for and fell into old patterns of taking orders from a female higher ranked space marine, while on a mission that she was in charge of, no I wouldn't have a problem with it. Sadly, some guys would. But they are sexist, chauvinistic idiots. I don't mean to imply that the reverse is true, but I can't help it if someone would draw that conclusion.

Trishbot:
We've been over this. She was not a blank slate character. She had an actively established and explored personality in several of these past games preceding Other M. Watch the Extra Credits episode for more examples.

I have. I still have yet to see any example where someone is not projecting the values they want onto her character in any of the other games. I remain unconvinced that she is not a blank slate.

Trishbot:
Then you obviously were clueless about Samus as a character. I wouldn't cry and whine if Batman suddenly started wearing Wonder Womans's outfit and lady's make-up due to psychological trauma from his parent's death years ago, not if I had no idea who Batman was. But, well, Batman as a character is very much established, and fans would most CERTAINLY whine and cry about it because they DO know Batman's past, and a twist like that would not be widely accepted. Samus, once again, WAS defined in prior games, and these alterations should be criticized and addressed.

Of course I was clueless about her as a character. No one had defined it yet. Batman is a bad example, never was a blank slate (well perhaps early on in detective comics before they went into his story, but I haven't read those.) But if a comic writer wanted to transvestite the caped crusader, I'd probably laugh because that's kind of funny. I don't have as much invested in Batman as you obviously do about Samus. But yeah the fans would cry. But he isn't a blank slate.

Trishbot:
So, are you seriously telling me Metroid fans have two choices? Like it, or shut up and go away? You must not do much creative work, because that's the WORST way to handle feedback. If people had done that, they would have murdered the Devil May Cry series when DMC2 came out, sucked horribly, and people demanded a return of the more beloved Dante and gameplay for DMC3. When Twisted Metal went sour with TM3&TM4, fans complained bitterly, and the series returned to its successful, critically acclaimed roots with Twisted Metal Black. When Mortal Kombat went on a tailspin with terrible games, they rebounded with the newest game, to high critical and commercial success, under the motto, even, of "give the fans what they've been asking for."

Maybe that's just where I'm different. I DID give up DMC after 2 and MK after 3. And Twisted Metal? Played 2, hated 3 (like everyone else) but thought I'd try again with Black and made a mistake, way worse than 2. TMB was terrible, TM is dead to me. I very rarely give a series a second chance after making a bad decision. There are so many other games it doesn't bother me to give up a series. Plenty of other games I can play. That's one of the reasons I've been surprised at all the OM hate, I'm usually the first one to totally give up on a series after a bad game.

Trishbot:
If you love a brand, as I do, and love a character, such as Samus, keeping silent or pretending to like it is the WORST thing to do. As someone that adores Metroid, adores Samus, and respects Nintendo, I would say it's actually our duty to inform them directly about how we feel.

And I have. I've e-mailed them. I told them precisely what I did, and did not, like. After all, the creator of the game asked as much of me. The creator, Yoshio Sakamoto, flat-out ASKED for feedback.

I'm glad you did let them know how you feel. But if they were to screw up a series I really like (say Zelda or Metal Gear) I would let them know by abandoning the series and giving my money to another developer. There are plenty out there. That's my feedback.

Trishbot:
I would actually say the era of the silent protagonist is nearly gone. I can almost count on one hand all the "silent" protagonists we have left (Gordan Freeman, some Halo heroes, Link), but nearly everyone else in this modern gaming age is voiced or given personalities. The reason we continue to play games like Gears of War, God of War, Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy, etc., is because you can STILL identify and relate to certain characters, even if they have expressive personalities.

Very true.

Trishbot:
Again, I'm a woman... 99% of all video games star male characters. Does that mean I can't relate to Solid Snake, or immerse myself as Cloud in Final Fantasy VII, or understand and enjoy playing as a hyper-macho Gears of War meathead? Can a man never enjoy or understand a Tomb Raider game because Lara Croft is female, with a British voice, and a background different from their own?

Uhh yeah. I do. I had fun playing Other M and even though there were problems with the story I didn't hate it. But unfortunately I can't come up with many more games I have played with female player characters. Final Fantsy, I loved several of the female characters and identified with things like Quistis' un-requited feelings and respected Tifa for her toughness and Yuna for her resolve. There really should be more examples of strong women in videogames, I won't disagree with that. And conversely I'm sure there are things about Snake you can respect and relate to. I wish I had more examples of female characters I respected, but I'll stand by Samus. I don't feel much different about her now that her character has been defined. I just see more of the things she's overcome in her life.

Trishbot:
So's claiming that Other M was the first one to define her character. Seriously, play more Metroid games. There exists more than Other M. Refresh your memory about certain events if you have, or at least pay attention to the story between blasting monsters. Just because the games didn't have 2 hours of cutscenes and the gameplay was king did not mean the story, and Samus's character, was non-existent.

I did play them all. I drew conclusions about her character and made projections of character on Samus as did everyone else (even though several different interpretations were possible because of lack of backstory.) I loved those games. But just because my imagination was filling in the blanks in the story, I didn't automatically dismiss the other people who may have seen it and her a little differently.

Trishbot:
See, for all that Prime did differently, the guts of the game are near identical to Super Metroid. The music, sound effects, non-linear exploration, puzzles, powers, enemies, upgrades, and atmosphere are pure Metroid. The way the game is played is exactly the same as Super Metroid, just from a first-person perspective. Was it a gamble? Yes, but Metroid fans such as myself enjoyed the game because it was still everything we wanted from a Metroid game.

Yeah, prime was great.

Trishbot:
Guess what Other M is? An action-driven shooter game that shunned exploration, self-discover, speed running, and puzzle-solving in favor of a catastrophically bad narrative, bloated cutscenes, arbitrary linearity (complete with pointless dead ends and hair-pulling, pace-killing pixel-hunts), and that blasted authorization system that robbed any self of self-empowerment or reward from the game (earning a suit feature or power is always more rewarding than having some guy restrict them then give them to you piece-meal when he FEELS like it).

Let's take this one-by one.
Shuns exploration. - Regenerating health was more responsible for this than any other reason.
Bad narrative. - What do you want, Hemmingway? Its a video game.
Bloated Cutscenes. - Yeah, too much and not spread out enough. The game was too short anyway. Add more game and spread out the cutscene it would have been better.
Dead ends and pixel hunts. - Pixel hunts? Didn't slow me down any. Those were easy. Dead ends? You never hit a dead end in a Metroid game... play more of them.
Authorization system. - Yeah a bad choice for a framing device. Tried something different and it didn't work.

None of those things were a dealbreaker for me.

I find it interesting that you said I made things personal and had the gall to be presumptuous, when you keep calling everyone who complained about the characterization delusional.

ace_of_something:
Wait, it's zeb-es? I always thought it was zeebz too.

It will always be Zeebz to me.

Trishbot:

I don't believe that. I, like others, don't believe ANY character development is better than little to none, just as I also don't believe that Samus lacked character development in the past nor that she lacked an established personality. Several people have countered and deconfirmed that misinformed perception, from the Extra Credits people, to the Elephant in the Room article, to the Heavens to Bob rebuff, to even the Prime guys at Retro Studios (who had some amazing interviews about how hard they worked to show off Samus's personality through body language, clever cutscenes, and gameplay).

Here's a problem with this, Retro Studios has shown that they have no idea what they were doing with the Prime games. Not only do the games conflict with each other but they all screw up the canon to the point that one could easily mistake them for separate off shoot canon.

In the Metroid canon, its made clear that Galactic Federation is fully capable of taking care of itself. Retro Studios acts as if the GF would implode if Samus wasn't there personally wimp everybody's bum.

Case in point, the canon manga clearly shows the GF police force using energy weapons but because RS couldn't actually come up with a good scenario for the troopers in Echos getting wiped out they just opted to give them incredibly ineffective solid rounds.

Another good example is the fact that RS gave Samus an urban myth status after she's already become the most popular and successful Hunter the GF as ever known. To make it worse, the manga shows that Samus saved the president of the GF live on intergalactic cable so how do you justify that?

There being Space Pirates out in the open on Tallon IV was a big ass plot hole that's never been explained. RS has even made it worse with one of their retcons.

And from what I understand the Space Pirate organization hasn't even remotely recovered form the galactic bet down the Federation combined forces dealt them surrounding the events of original Metroid game by the time Fusion rolls around. So why in hell are they strong enough to attack them like they did in Corruption?

Plus, Prime 2 and 3 completely ignore how the suit works.

Trishbot:
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This woman, this strong, smart, capable, amiable, powerful, independent, confident warrior woman with a zest for life and a penchant for doing the impossible, as has been established in prior games... this woman does not exist in Other M. And the gaming world is the lesser for her absence.

Except that's you talking out of your ass. Everbody can have good and bad days, and Samus was having a bad day like Batman after he loses a Robin kind of bad day.

Another thing, why doesn't anyone care that Nintendo royally screwed up Link in the last couple of games?

Mike Cass:

Here's a problem with this, Retro Studios has shown that they have no idea what they were doing with the Prime games. Not only do the games conflict with each other but they all screw up the canon to the point that one could easily mistake them for separate off shoot canon.

Strange how you blame Retro Studios for certain game conflicts when, from the interviews I've read (specifically a rather lengthy one at IGN), they talk about how series creator Yoshio Sakatmoto oversaw their games and had to approve any and all of their story drafts. In fact, it was Yoshio Sakamoto that forced them to utterly change their original plans for Metroid Prime 3, which was going to just be about Samus doing her job as a bounty hunter and going off into space to hunt the deadliest criminals the universe possessed, but they were told they weren't allowed to have Samus do "bounty hunting" in her games.

Mike Cass:

In the Metroid canon, its made clear that Galactic Federation is fully capable of taking care of itself. Retro Studios acts as if the GF would implode if Samus wasn't there personally wimp everybody's bum.

That seems like a bit of a stretch for many reasons. One, the Galactic Federation does pretty good on their own during certain scenes, especially in Metroid Prime 3, while many non-Retro games show the Galactic Federation in a very poor light as well, particularly in Fusion and Other M. How many Galactic Federation officers survived in Other M? Just one. Anthony. And we thought he was dead (and he should have been). If the Galactic Federation didn't need Samus help, then why did the Galactic Federation personally contact Samus in a variety of non-Retro games, ranging from Zero Mission to Fusion? They knew she could get the job done, they knew she was the best they could get, and they knew she'd be an asset to their missions. If they DIDN'T need her help, and they were genuinely capable of taking care of themselves, why ask her to get involved in Zero Mission, Metroid II, Other M, and Fusion?

Mike Cass:

Case in point, the canon manga clearly shows the GF police force using energy weapons but because RS couldn't actually come up with a good scenario for the troopers in Echos getting wiped out they just opted to give them incredibly ineffective solid rounds.

Lol. Did you play Other M? The GF soldiers used SOLID ROUNDS in that game too, quite early on too. And did you play Echoes recently? The live rounds those soldiers were using were doing a very good job at killing the Ing monsters. They only lost due to the sheer overwhelming numbers of Ing attacking them. This is a world where solid rounds still have a place, and have always had a place, right alongside beam weaponry. Hell, in Echoes, they're using beam weaponry against the pirates in space before using solid rounds on ground... probably because solid rounds are faster, consume less energy, and don't overheat as frequently... something that would be preferable when you're surrounded on all sides by hordes of enemy. BOTH types of ammo exist in this universe in MANY different games, even the non-Retro ones.

Mike Cass:

Another good example is the fact that RS gave Samus an urban myth status after she's already become the most popular and successful Hunter the GF as ever known. To make it worse, the manga shows that Samus saved the president of the GF live on intergalactic cable so how do you justify that?

The validity of a seldom read, Japanese-only manga with gaping plot holes of its own even without Retro's games notwithstanding, you do realize the Prime games occur at the very beginning of Samus's adventures, right? The Prime series occurs just after Metroid 1 and before Metroid 2, where Samus is on the rise in prominence, her acts of heroism are just now sending shockwaves through both the GF and the Space Pirate organizations. She's not an "urban legend", but she's not common knowledge either. When you drop down on Tallon IV in Prime and go to the pirate base, they know exactly who you are... and they're freaking the hell out of their minds because they know what "the Hunter" can do to them. They saw it first hand in Zero Mission.

Mike Cass:

There being Space Pirates out in the open on Tallon IV was a big ass plot hole that's never been explained. RS has even made it worse with one of their retcons.

Again, all story elements are approved by Yoshio Sakamoto and Nintendo. Secondly, the Space Pirates were not "out in the open" and Samus herself had to FIND their headquarters. That's part of the plot in the game. She's alarmed to discover they were there and that they've been secretly building bases, smuggling weapons, and doing experiments in caves and bases throughout the planet. Tallon IV, if you recall by the scan logs in the game, was considered a "dead planet" once the Chozo had either died out or migrated from it, and it held no value to the GF. The Space Pirates moved in during the absence, only for Prime 1 to have Samus discover them and route them out once again. I see no plot hole or contradictions anymore than I see Metroid Fusion having a huge plot hole due to the presence of the SA-X parasites suddenly appearing, something that you'd think the Chozo would've mentioned to her at some point.

Mike Cass:

And from what I understand the Space Pirate organization hasn't even remotely recovered form the galactic bet down the Federation combined forces dealt them surrounding the events of original Metroid game by the time Fusion rolls around. So why in hell are they strong enough to attack them like they did in Corruption?

That was actually explained. For starters, the Space Pirates lost a major headquarters in Metroid 1... but that was NOT their entire organization. Not even half of it. That's like saying the Sith Empire was doomed once the Death Star blew up, but rather The Empire Strikes Back shows that, while a setback, the Empire was much larger and powerful than initially realized and had the means to get revenge in a big, big way. The Space Pirates aren't some scavenger gang; they're a large, powerful organization that's been enduring in every last single Metroid game as a massive threat. Ridley himself keeps coming back, usually due to the pirates themselves rebuilding/resurrecting him. I think you sold the Space Pirates short. They've been a threat since the first game and they're still a huge threat in the last game, Fusion.

Mike Cass:

Plus, Prime 2 and 3 completely ignore how the suit works.

You mean the magic suit that Samus magically earned through a mystical Chozo spirit test in Zero Mission that somehow is effective only if Samus woke up on the right side of the bed and doesn't freak out in a war-like situation and that can magically absorb the abilities of ancient artifacts and alien technology left to her on obscure planets by various alien cultures and currently-existing Federation technology?

I fail to see how they ignored "how the suit works". Does the suit protect her? Yep. Can it adapt and absorb new powers and abilities? Yep. Can she go into morph ball mode and plant bombs? Yep. Does she have the vast majority of her trademark abilities and powers? Yep. If anything, I'd say I prefer their portrayal of her sci-fi suit of armor as something functional, rather than a rather shoddy Sailor Moon-esque magic transformation outfit that appears on her if she thinks about it REALLY HARD (and that somehow gives her missiles in Other M too).

Trishbot:
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This woman, this strong, smart, capable, amiable, powerful, independent, confident warrior woman with a zest for life and a penchant for doing the impossible, as has been established in prior games... this woman does not exist in Other M. And the gaming world is the lesser for her absence.

Mike Cass:

Except that's you talking out of your ass. Everbody can have good and bad days, and Samus was having a bad day like Batman after he loses a Robin kind of bad day.

Are you really comparing Samus to Batman when Joker killed Robin? Because I read that story. Batman never broke down crying in hysterics or fear at the sight of the Joker. Quite the contrary; in that story, Batman is driven to get revenge to such a rage-inducing degree that he quite nearly breaks his vow never to kill. He was sad, yes, but it didn't impede his ability to BE BATMAN; quite the opposite; Robin's death by the Joker drove him to become a far more lethal, focused, and driven hero.

Or, here, let's pick a more recent example: Arkham City. Batman's having a bad day in that game too. He's poisoned; dying even. Loved ones of his die in that game. He's getting beat up, tortured even, and is overwhelmed trying to keep things under control, let alone stay alive. He's having a bad day. Does he sit at home, cry about it, and whine about how Alfred doesn't respect him or that he misses his daddy? Hell no. He mans up, puts on the cowl, and punches villains in the face all the way to the credits, doing his job like a pro.

In Other M, Samus's frailty and insecurity nearly gets her friends KILLED.

Here's the thing; while it's realistic to have a bad day, most people would rather play as the hero being a damn HERO and NOT playing a game where the hero is having "a bad day" that drags the character and the whole game down. When I play a Batman game, I want to feel like a badass justice of the night, terrorizing criminals and rising up against overwhelming odds with confidence and courage. Arkham City is full of those moments; he tells Robin to get out of his way; Oracle and Alfred crack jokes about how he'll pick the "suicidal" route into a building, knowing full well he'll be just fine. When they express concern for him, he shrugs it off and marches on... even when it's obvious he's physically at his limits and is hanging on by a wish and prayer.

Samus should be Batman for the player. Empower me. Make me feel brave. Make me feel strong. Make me feel smart and talented and full of confidence, control, authority, power, and ability. Other M, in particular, did NONE of that and instead stripped away control, overruled my desires, impeded my progress, and put up enough barriers, physical and emotional, that I could not help but be detached from the heroine I have adored for 25 years.

Mike Cass:

Another thing, why doesn't anyone care that Nintendo royally screwed up Link in the last couple of games?

That's literally the very first time I've ever heard anyone say Nintendo "screwed up" Link in the past few Zelda games. Literally. I've read dozens of reports to the contrary, talking about how amazing and expressive Skyward Sword's Link is, how charming and timeless the Wind Waker-esque Link has become, how Twilight Princess gave us a believable Link that truly grows as a characters and rises to the occasion to protect his friends. Link, in every incarnation, is always brave, always courageous, always enduring, always noble, always kind, always intelligent, always talented, always dependable, always trustworthy, always determined, and always victorious as the hero that Hyrule (or Holodrum, or Labrynna, or Termina, or Koholint Island) needs him to be. How have they "screwed that up"?

In the end, I know Other M has its defenders and those that genuinely liked it; I'm not one of them. I know many who are, and I know just as many who aren't. The game was divisive and it was divisive for a reason, just as Final Fantasy XIII and The 3rd Birthday were.

I was enough a fan of Samus Aran that I dedicated my life to making video games and making games with a strong female protagonist just as she was. There were far too few female role models in games for me growing up, and Samus was one of the best. The Samus of Other M is not that woman, and I'm sorry if you can't see or understand why I feel that way. Were I a single voice of protest, that might be something, but there is a strong collective of people who felt that Samus was mishandled in Other M, and an overwhelmingly positive reception for how Samus was treated in the Prime games, so while dissenting opinions exist, the outrage from many shouldn't be ignored, and valid points of contention can and should be addressed by whoever handles a Metroid game going forward.

I want to be a hero again, one that is fearless in the face of danger, one who is strong in the face of adversity, one who is enduring in the face of setbacks, one who is resolute in her own convictions and refuses to back down when pressured. I want a Samus that looks Ridley in the eye and rushes into battle to protect others from him; I want a Samus that doesn't shy away when a fat GF officer tries to intimidate her; I want a Samus that does question retarded orders from a man that is genuinely unfit to lead a marching band, let alone an army; I want a Samus that earns her powers, not one that submits herself to unnecessary limitations. I want to grow, not regress, to challenge, not submit, to fight, not cry, to go into suicidal situations and emerge victorious, not get shot in the back and told to stay behind where it's safe. I want to deliver the finishing blow to my enemies. I want to be the one saving others, not being save. If I were to complain, it would be about how the blood on my visor is obscuring my vision, not dwell on Twilight-quality boy problems and daddy issues. I want to go in, kick alien ass, and get the job done like a pro; not have every thing I do get second-guessed, mocked, belittled, and demeaned. I want to wear awesome battle suits full of awesome powers and abilities, not a spandex leotard in f***ing high heels. I want to be Batman in Space. I want to be Samus Aran.

I do not want to be a vapid, big-boobed, blonde airhead that needs permission to tie her shoes.

I don't ask for the unreasonable. I ask for what existed in Metroid games for over 25 years, a quarter of a century. Surely that's not too much for a woman to ask for.

Trishbot:
Strange how you blame Retro Studios for certain game conflicts when, from the interviews I've read (specifically a rather lengthy one at IGN), they talk about how series creator Yoshio Sakatmoto oversaw their games and had to approve any and all of their story drafts.

Except that doesn't mean that he approved every single thing that they put into the games. From what I understand he was only hands on during the first one and after that it was some other guy that was working directly with them.

Trishbot:
In fact, it was Yoshio Sakamoto that forced them to utterly change their original plans for Metroid Prime 3, which was going to just be about Samus doing her job as a bounty hunter and going off into space to hunt the deadliest criminals the universe possessed, but they were told they weren't allowed to have Samus do "bounty hunting" in her games.

Which doesn't change the fact that they manged screw things up on their own. If you're going to blame Sakamoto for that then you might as well blame him for the comments Retro Studios made in their Trilogy video interview.

The reasons why that idea was shot down is that Samus picked bounty hunting as a means to an end not simply to make money and that she doesn't pick her missions like they were going to do.

Trishbot:
That seems like a bit of a stretch for many reasons. One, the Galactic Federation does pretty good on their own during certain scenes, especially in Metroid Prime 3, while many non-Retro games show the Galactic Federation in a very poor light as well, particularly in Fusion and Other M. How many Galactic Federation officers survived in Other M? Just one. Anthony. And we thought he was dead (and he should have been).

There was no GF troopers in Fusion and there's nothing to suggest that there were any on BSL at any point. And even if they were there are you really going to try to compare the X to Space Pirate grunt species?

In Other M they didn't survive was because they getting shot in the back or if they ran into something that could kill Samus such as Ridley or MB and even then it was suggested that they were taken by surprise. When we look at the scene were the troopers are fighting the "super" Space Pirates at the end of the game and take note that none of them die. Heck, there's even one that was clearly knocked down that was totally fine given the fact that he shown getting up.

Trishbot:
If the Galactic Federation didn't need Samus help, then why did the Galactic Federation personally contact Samus in a variety of non-Retro games, ranging from Zero Mission to Fusion? They knew she could get the job done, they knew she was the best they could get, and they knew she'd be an asset to their missions. If they DIDN'T need her help, and they were genuinely capable of taking care of themselves, why ask her to get involved in Zero Mission, Metroid II, Other M, and Fusion?

Except there's a difference between getting help when you need it and getting somebody to do all your work for you which is how it is in the Retro games. In Zero Mission Samus is selected because she is best suited for the mission as she's been genetically modified to survive on the plant she grew up on. Fusion made it clear that she was selected not because she was the only one that could possibly do anything but because she was closest. And in Other M, the GF told her to go **** herself at the beginning of the game because they understood that she wouldn't be up to killing more baby Metroids.

Trishbot:
Lol. Did you play Other M? The GF soldiers used SOLID ROUNDS in that game too, quite early on too.

The only reason solid rounds were being used in Other M was because they were being used in Echoes.

Trishbot:
And did you play Echoes recently? The live rounds those soldiers were using were doing a very good job at killing the Ing monsters. They only lost due to the sheer overwhelming numbers of Ing attacking them.

The thing is that they shouldn't have lost at all.

Trishbot:
This is a world where solid rounds still have a place, and have always had a place, right alongside beam weaponry. Hell, in Echoes, they're using beam weaponry against the pirates in space before using solid rounds on ground... probably because solid rounds are faster, consume less energy, and don't overheat as frequently... something that would be preferable when you're surrounded on all sides by hordes of enemy. BOTH types of ammo exist in this universe in MANY different games, even the non-Retro ones.

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Look at that people using energy weapons on the ground.

Trishbot:
The validity of a seldom read, Japanese-only manga with gaping plot holes of its own even without Retro's games notwithstanding, you do realize the Prime games occur at the very beginning of Samus's adventures, right? The Prime series occurs just after Metroid 1 and before Metroid 2, where Samus is on the rise in prominence, her acts of heroism are just now sending shockwaves through both the GF and the Space Pirate organizations. She's not an "urban legend", but she's not common knowledge either. When you drop down on Tallon IV in Prime and go to the pirate base, they know exactly who you are... and they're freaking the hell out of their minds because they know what "the Hunter" can do to them. They saw it first hand in Zero Mission.

The problem with this argument is that Samus is already reached that level before Zero Mission or reached it because of the mission she was on during that game. So they should have already know who she was this is the reason Retro dropped the idea in MP3. Plus your argument against the manga is racist.

Trishbot:
Again, all story elements are approved by Yoshio Sakamoto and Nintendo.

And again they had a lot more leeway then you're giving them credit for.

Trishbot:
Secondly, the Space Pirates were not "out in the open" and Samus herself had to FIND their headquarters. That's part of the plot in the game.

That doesn't change the fact that their activities could have easily been seen form space.

Trishbot:
She's alarmed to discover they were there and that they've been secretly building bases, smuggling weapons, and doing experiments in caves and bases throughout the planet.

Samus doesn't show any emotion in Prime. The closest she gets in is when she takes off her helmet at the end of the game and even that's up for debate.

Trishbot:
Tallon IV, if you recall by the scan logs in the game, was considered a "dead planet" once the Chozo had either died out or migrated from it, and it held no value to the GF.

But they still would have they still would have searched it given what system its in. When you clear out an enemy base you search the neighboring area to make sure they can't just waltz back in. At lest with Zebes there's the fact that the Space Pirates were deep underground and the plant is a living hell unlike Tallon IV which is described as paradise.

Trishbot:
The Space Pirates moved in during the absence, only for Prime 1 to have Samus discover them and route them out once again.

They were already there during Zero Mission.

Trishbot:
I see no plot hole or contradictions anymore than I see Metroid Fusion having a huge plot hole due to the presence of the SA-X parasites suddenly appearing, something that you'd think the Chozo would've mentioned to her at some point.

The fact that the Space Pirates were broken during ZM makes MP3 a plot hole. Plus it was made clear that the Chozo didn't want anyone to know about the X unlike phazon in which the ones on the plant decided to not tell their fellow Chozo about for no reason what so ever. Also, the Chozo plans for the Metroids was interrupted before they could finish them.

Trishbot:
That was actually explained. For starters, the Space Pirates lost a major headquarters in Metroid 1... but that was NOT their entire organization. Not even half of it. That's like saying the Sith Empire was doomed once the Death Star blew up, but rather The Empire Strikes Back shows that, while a setback, the Empire was much larger and powerful than initially realized and had the means to get revenge in a big, big way. The Space Pirates aren't some scavenger gang; they're a large, powerful organization that's been enduring in every last single Metroid game as a massive threat. Ridley himself keeps coming back, usually due to the pirates themselves rebuilding/resurrecting him. I think you sold the Space Pirates short. They've been a threat since the first game and they're still a huge threat in the last game, Fusion.

Except I'm saying that they lost more then one base during that time. The interview I'm remembering clearly calls them remnants in Fusion meaning that they lost more then one base.

Trishbot:
You mean the magic suit that Samus magically earned through a mystical Chozo spirit test in Zero Mission that somehow is effective only if Samus woke up on the right side of the bed and doesn't freak out in a war-like situation and that can magically absorb the abilities of ancient artifacts and alien technology left to her on obscure planets by various alien cultures and currently-existing Federation technology?

No, she doesn't gain a suit in ZM.

Trishbot:
I fail to see how they ignored "how the suit works". Does the suit protect her? Yep. Can it adapt and absorb new powers and abilities? Yep. Can she go into morph ball mode and plant bombs? Yep. Does she have the vast majority of her trademark abilities and powers? Yep. If anything, I'd say I prefer their portrayal of her sci-fi suit of armor as something functional, rather than a rather shoddy Sailor Moon-esque magic transformation outfit that appears on her if she thinks about it REALLY HARD (and that somehow gives her missiles in Other M too).

Retro's depiction wasn't remotely functional at all. Sakamoto's actually works using the mind which is why it stress is an issue plus its organic which makes it a lot more interesting then a lump of metal that breaks every time somebody sneezes at it.

Trishbot:
Are you really comparing Samus to Batman when Joker killed Robin? Because I read that story. Batman never broke down crying in hysterics or fear at the sight of the Joker. Quite the contrary; in that story, Batman is driven to get revenge to such a rage-inducing degree that he quite nearly breaks his vow never to kill. He was sad, yes, but it didn't impede his ability to BE BATMAN; quite the opposite; Robin's death by the Joker drove him to become a far more lethal, focused, and driven hero.

So driven that Tim Drake had to become his partner to keep him form going over the edge. Then there's the way he acted when Tim left him and how well he took Stephanie Brown's 'death'. But I find it funny that you claim to have read the manga and try to say that Samus was reacting in fear not reliving the death of her family.

Trishbot:
Or, here, let's pick a more recent example: Arkham City. Batman's having a bad day in that game too. He's poisoned; dying even. Loved ones of his die in that game. He's getting beat up, tortured even, and is overwhelmed trying to keep things under control, let alone stay alive. He's having a bad day. Does he sit at home, cry about it, and whine about how Alfred doesn't respect him or that he misses his daddy? Hell no. He mans up, puts on the cowl, and punches villains in the face all the way to the credits, doing his job like a pro.

Two big problems here: 1) He tried to drop his job the moment Talia was in troble and only did what was needed because Alfred made him do it. 2) Arkham City's story was handled worse then Other M's.

Trishbot:
In Other M, Samus's frailty and insecurity nearly gets her friends KILLED.

Trishbot:
Here's the thing; while it's realistic to have a bad day, most people would rather play as the hero being a damn HERO and NOT playing a game where the hero is having "a bad day" that drags the character and the whole game down. When I play a Batman game, I want to feel like a badass justice of the night, terrorizing criminals and rising up against overwhelming odds with confidence and courage. Arkham City is full of those moments; he tells Robin to get out of his way; Oracle and Alfred crack jokes about how he'll pick the "suicidal" route into a building, knowing full well he'll be just fine. When they express concern for him, he shrugs it off and marches on... even when it's obvious he's physically at his limits and is hanging on by a wish and prayer.

But that has nothing to do with the argument and no, Arkham City is full of Batman being a Marty Stue which a lot of fans hate.

Trishbot:
Samus should be Batman for the player. Empower me. Make me feel brave. Make me feel strong. Make me feel smart and talented and full of confidence, control, authority, power, and ability. Other M, in particular, did NONE of that and instead stripped away control, overruled my desires, impeded my progress, and put up enough barriers, physical and emotional, that I could not help but be detached from the heroine I have adored for 25 years.

For someone that you adored so much that you've ignored everything about her.

Trishbot:
That's literally the very first time I've ever heard anyone say Nintendo "screwed up" Link in the past few Zelda games.

That just shows how detached from reality you are. For the most part, Link hasn't felt like he belongs in his own series let alone feel like he's supposed to.

Trishbot:
Literally. I've read dozens of reports to the contrary, talking about how amazing and expressive Skyward Sword's Link is, how charming and timeless the Wind Waker-esque Link has become, how Twilight Princess gave us a believable Link that truly grows as a characters and rises to the occasion to protect his friends. Link, in every incarnation, is always brave, always courageous, always enduring, always noble, always kind, always intelligent, always talented, always dependable, always trustworthy, always determined, and always victorious as the hero that Hyrule (or Holodrum, or Labrynna, or Termina, or Koholint Island) needs him to be. How have they "screwed that up"?

First off, for Link to be a believable character he has to actually feel like he part of that world which he doesn't. Hylians are all supposed to have a curtain level of magical, psychic and physical powers which are all completely ignored because they want to shove multiple Links into the series. More over Nintendo is actually trying to blame Link for their own mistakes. The plot of Skyward Sword is that Link is incapable of doing good unless he's being manipulated into doing so and that he must have his hand held all the way.

Trishbot:
In the end, I know Other M has its defenders and those that genuinely liked it; I'm not one of them. I know many who are, and I know just as many who aren't. The game was divisive and it was divisive for a reason, just as Final Fantasy XIII and The 3rd Birthday were.

Its divisive because people formed misshaped ideas about a character in their minds. The fact that the game was rushed doesn't help the matter.

Trishbot:
I was enough a fan of Samus Aran that I dedicated my life to making video games and making games with a strong female protagonist just as she was. There were far too few female role models in games for me growing up, and Samus was one of the best. The Samus of Other M is not that woman, and I'm sorry if you can't see or understand why I feel that way. Were I a single voice of protest, that might be something, but there is a strong collective of people who felt that Samus was mishandled in Other M, and an overwhelmingly positive reception for how Samus was treated in the Prime games, so while dissenting opinions exist, the outrage from many shouldn't be ignored, and valid points of contention can and should be addressed by whoever handles a Metroid game going forward.

You feel sorry for me, you dare to say that when its clear that you have no understanding as to what you're talking? How was Samus treated well in the Prime games? Was it when she blankly stares at Ridley in the first game? Or how she doesn't actually try to fix her armor after it gets damaged or contact any of her people at all but rather decides to stroll around Tallon IV? Or how she decides that she needs to ignore all the threats to her life so she could shoot the sky in Echos? Or could you possibly mean that moment were Samus does nothing to try stop Dark Samus form infecting everybody at the beginning of Corruption? No, I bet you're thinking how Samus doesn't activate the Gravity function of her suit because of Dane's order to find shielding and how she land on Phaaze instead of blowing it up from space like an obedient little dog.

Trishbot:
I want to be a hero again, one that is fearless in the face of danger, one who is strong in the face of adversity, one who is enduring in the face of setbacks, one who is resolute in her own convictions and refuses to back down when pressured. I want a Samus that looks Ridley in the eye and rushes into battle to protect others from him; I want a Samus that doesn't shy away when a fat GF officer tries to intimidate her;

What? How can anyone think that Adam was fat or that he was trying to intimidate her.

Trishbot:
I want a Samus that does question retarded orders from a man that is genuinely unfit to lead a marching band, let alone an army;

Funny you didn't have a problem when it was happening in MP3 because you just described Dane to a T.

Trishbot:
I want a Samus that earns her powers, not one that submits herself to unnecessary limitations.

Right, because letting the suit blow up her mind is totally cool.

Trishbot:
I want to grow, not regress, to challenge, not submit, to fight, not cry, to go into suicidal situations and emerge victorious, not get shot in the back and told to stay behind where it's safe. I want to deliver the finishing blow to my enemies. I want to be the one saving others, not being save. If I were to complain, it would be about how the blood on my visor is obscuring my vision, not dwell on Twilight-quality boy problems and daddy issues. I want to go in, kick alien ass, and get the job done like a pro; not have every thing I do get second-guessed, mocked, belittled, and demeaned. I want to wear awesome battle suits full of awesome powers and abilities, not a spandex leotard in f***ing high heels. I want to be Batman in Space. I want to be Samus Aran.

No, what you want to be is a Mery Sue. You're no better then the people that claim the only way Samus can be strong is if she hates all men.

Trishbot:
I do not want to be a vapid, big-boobed, blonde airhead that needs permission to tie her shoes.

Except Samus was nothing like in Other M unlike MP3 where she's exactly like that.

Trishbot:
I don't ask for the unreasonable. I ask for what existed in Metroid games for over 25 years, a quarter of a century. Surely that's not too much for a woman to ask for.

Except these are ideas that you formed are completely disconnected form reality. In most games Samus is depicted as a machine in that she never gives out any kind of real reaction to anything at all. The only times she's not shown in that way are the manga, Fusion and Other M and all of them never have the way you claim that they do.

I just hope you never pick up a copy of Oh My Goddess because your **** storm about a super powered woman that actually like to clean and cook would never end.

This games dialog is so bad, it practically makes fun of itself. It is painful to listen to. I really don't blame Team Ninja for this. We all know how TN handles games. I blame Nintendo for selling out the franchise. It would be amazing if Nintendo put a little less energy into "redefining" console gaming systems, and put that creative effort into creating new IP's.

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