Jimquisition: Used Games Have A Right To Exist

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Used Games Have A Right To Exist

Publishers would have you believe that used games are the biggest threat to the games industry. Even gamers will sympathize with these huge companies and equate the used market with piracy. Unlike piracy, however, used games have plenty of right to exist and are not the demonic entity others make them out to be. Jim Sterling, naturally, has the band-aid of reality to plaster over your fantasy cuts.

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Thank you Jim for speaking the truth. It ticks me off that people say that I am as bad as people who PIRATE just because I LEGALLY sell my games and buy used games. Am I a bad person if I freaking sell my car to someone after I buy it?

I have to say, most of the points in the video have been said before a thousand times over.
Also, curse you for using "You're not Alone!" as a background. That particular tune always makes me tear up like a little bitch.

Best episode yet Jim! It's just sad that so many people need this spelled out to them. The hypocrisy of publishers, crushing all sense of fair business in their path like the tyrants they are, and then turning round whenever we buy a used game and whimpering like schoolgirls "It's not fair! What about wickle old me?"

Fuck. That.

It is a shame people don't realize they're being fucked over by DLC and online codes. When the game is bought brand new that is all the publisher is entitled to not one cent more.

Easily the best episode of Jimquisition yet. I've not always agreed with Jim, but this Used Game trilogy is bang on the mark. Can't wait for the final instalment.

Also, excellent excellent choice with the Final Fantasy IX music. I noticed Jesters Of The Moon in prior episodes, but it seems that the entire Jimquisition sountrack comes from FFIx. And that makes me so happy I could squeal like a little girl...

When I saw the Bullfrog logo, I got a little depressed. Then I thought of what EA did to Origin Systems and I cried a little.

On topic: This whole episode was irrelevant to me, as I'm mostly a PC gamer and the industry managed to shut down the used game market there a long time ago.

Also, where I'm from, it's an infraction to put money into someone else's parking meter. Big Bro gets more money from tickets than from the meters.

I Agree.

Also, what was that mech game at around 4:50. Looked pretty good.

I like how jim has actually turned from making rather useless points to actually ones of real value. The guys at extra credits are still doing it better, but it's good to have someone else actually chipping in things of worth

bravo jim! bravo!

Croc of shit indeed. Publishers need to stop selling uncomplete games and then charge again for the rest to the game or like capcom, release a the game multiple times *cough*SFIV/SVC3*cough*

Terrible terrible argument. "I can waste as much money as I want on crap games, thereby encouraging publisher to keep making even worse games, because I can turn around and resell them to some other sucker who will also hate it. It doesn't matter how bad games get because of the lemming-like churn of money to be made off cycle bad games around the toilet of current gaming."

Show a little self-control and don't give publishers your money for games you hate and you won't need to be able to resell them to to the next poor sod.

But don't cry because you're too stupid to recognize crap after being sold it repeatedly. And don't blame the publishers for thinking that what you really want is more of the same crap you've resold time and time again. They can't hear you over the piles of your money they're busy counting.

I;m only against Used games, When they are sold through the same retail store that sells the real thing.

If you want to buy used games it should be through craigslist,Ebay, or a cashconverters(not sure of the american equivilant(or if there is one))

This way there isn't that checkout conversion that everyone who has been in a gamestop or EB hates. of "You can get the used copy 5 dollars cheaper" Being able to have a last ditch attempt to divert a customer that was going to buy the new copy to a used is the biggest issue in my mind.

If you remove used games from the gamestores that sell them, you put the onus on the customer to go and find a copy(even if it means Gamestop were to open a used game's shop chain) seperate it from the new purchases.

And while i have no conclusive evidence to back up this claim. I expect that when someone buys a used game even if they were going to buy it new, the fact that it's a used copy means it is much more likely to be sold back to the same place it was just bought from.

The fact is that everyday people can make far more than Gamestop will ever give them for their used titles, and at the same time gamers can get a reasonable price instead of the minimum amount gamestop believe needs to be taken off the title to make it appealing to buy

Catchy Slogan:
I Agree.

Also, what was that mech game at around 4:50. Looked pretty good.

If you're talking about the multiplayer matches with the armored jetpacks, I think that was Killzone 3. Not entirely sure, because I never spent too much time actually playing the multiplayer, but it looked like it to me.

OT: Thank you, Jim, I agree with everything said in this episode. I don't want to say any more because I don't feel like getting into an argument with any anti-used-games people.

I'm a PC gamer and digital distribution is now the consumer model for PC Gaming. Unofficially, but the corporate suits can go fuck themselves up the ass because retail tells only a fraction of the story.

Your arguments really drive home the sorry state that retail has become in lieu of the war waged by publishers and retailers. Fortunately this model will die out and I hope that digital distribution follows the example set by Steam. It will be interesting to see whether or not the next console generation will be able to adequately take advantage of digital distribution and in a way that provides optimum value for customers and profit-turnover for publishers and developers (mainly developers).

I also have to wonder how Cloud Gaming will impact on the industry, as its model is becoming more and more popular and I see this as another retail killer. Cloud Gaming could possibly be the shape of things to come.

Another point worthy of note is that law-making in regards to the business of computer gaming is a largely untested area and more needs to be done to address the sheer Fuckery (with a capital fucking 'F') that the publishers are putting customers through these days. There simply has not been enough legal scrutiny of the industry outside of ideological-driven politicking of pseudo humanitarians, who only care about their political agendas and not so much about the amorphous 'the children' descriptor.

I would predict, that if there were to be another VG industry crash, it would be in large part due to publishers chocking the industry through its consumer policies.

*Edit*

What I would really like to see in terms of distribution models, is one where developers launch their titles from their own server network. I believe Frictional did this with Amnesia, by having the game downloadable from their main site. It was also on Steam, but I think it highlights quite a bit more flexibility than traditional publishing models.

Oh and JIM.

As i know you play PC games, the fact is that if we make a purchase that is shit, we do have to keep it for ever.

It's why Pirate-to-Demo is so fucking prevailent. Especially when the developers refuse to release a proper demo(either before or on release).

I dodged a bullet with Homefront because i got hands on my brothers copy before i was going to buy it.

although ironically due to a steam sale i now own the thing anyway since it essentially came free with the other THQ games in the sales Pack

Yes publisher wants more profit and to make more and more money to always have exponential growth... That's the capitalistic idea... They,re just applying what's good for their wallets. Buying used games isn't just questionning the industry, there's more to it behind it (an ideology maybe ?).

My only issue is with your lighting, you need to get some curtains.

cpt blackamar:
I like how jim has actually turned from making rather useless points to actually ones of real value. The guys at extra credits are still doing it better, but it's good to have someone else actually chipping in things of worth

No they're not, they just talk fluff and wrap a pretty bow on games being ultra important to society. Jim Sterling does not. He's blunt. This industry needs more Jim Sterlings. While a lot of people, like the EC team, try to justify video games as contemporary pieces of art, once in a while (refreshingly), there are those who just commentate on games without speculation.

Catchy Slogan:
I Agree.

Also, what was that mech game at around 4:50. Looked pretty good.

Killzone 3. The Mech and the Jetpacks are available in Multiplayer. Pretty fun game.

And I will say, thank god for Jim Sterling. Keep laying on the vitriol man!

0_0 That online space thing is brilliant. I hadn't considered that. It makes perfect sense, so why the hell are they able to pull the wool over our eyes like that?!

That being said, I've always been for used games. I don't see a problem with it, seeing as (as you said) someone bought the game new already.

Plus, if you like it, you might end up buying the next game/other games by that publisher new.

Also, Steam offers its own method to help consumers who can't/won't shell out tons of money: Frequent sales that sometimes become insanely good (2$ for Alpha protocol? 7$ for Borderlands and all DLC? YES. PLEASE).

If i buy a game, its mine. I own it. Its my property and i can do what i want with it. Same as cds, dvds, cars and anything else i buy. But isnt it funny only game companies bitch about it and not car companies or anything else.

Also if i couldnt buy second hand games or rent games, then i just wouldnt buy certain titles.

You know, the only really good examples Jim presented were pretty much all focused on one company, EA. Focusing on a single company, no matter how big of assholes they are, doesn't make a good argument. And the focus is that used games aren't as bad as piracy. Well... duh. Even if they say otherwise, even companies that say it is realize it's not. It may be as bad for the company to some degree, perhaps even worse due to it being something completely legal, therefore there's nothing to deter people from buying used.

The example given about DLC released on the first day I do agree with. That's complete BS. What they should have done is made the online not require an online pass and instead made it so anyone who purchased the game new got all those extra suits and such that you didn't need.

I also agree with the argument against the fact that publishers are trying to screw over their customers by saying they don't have the right to do what they'd like with their products (such as Sony claiming that, when you purchase the PS3, you're really only purchasing a license to use it, at least I think it was Sony who said that).

Then again, these are businesses. They have to do whatever they can to make as much money as they possibly can. For them, it's not about the 'art' or making the perfect game, it's about making as much money as possible. And there's nothing wrong with that in my opinion. Without that attitude, they likely wouldn't stay in business long.

Anyways, I digressed. One problem I'm seeing with the series is that it only looks at one side without even acknowledging the other sides argument unless it's simply to call them complete crap then barely expanding on why they're crap other then because he says so. That doesn't make for a good argument. I know this is an opinion-based series, but it's still a problem in my opinion.

Personally, I'd be more willing to buy games new instead of used if a) They weren't so expensive and b) less of them were complete shit.

Disappointed by the lack of swords this week...

I'll confess that I don't have any sources to back this statement up, so someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you ask "aren't they making enough money already?" you make it sound like most publishers are greedy bastards sitting on piles of money, trying to suck you dry every chance they get. But the last thing I heard was that the only publisher who was turning a profit was Activision (and that was before they pulled the plug on Guitar Hero). I'm not saying their ways of making gamers pay more for their games aren't assy, I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.

LOVING this mini-series to far! My exact sentiments Jim! I really hope someone listens to this. I.E. PUBLISHERS!

gphjr14:
It is a shame people don't realize they're being fucked over by DLC and online codes. When the game is bought brand new that is all the publisher is entitled to not one cent more.

Oh, i know i'm getting screwed over, the PROBLEM IS, if i like the game enough, I want the DLC. It's not as huge a deal for me persay, I don't game nearly as much as I used too, and so far, I'd say in the last 2 years, there have been like, maybe 6 games i liked enough to get DLC for. Mass Effects (both), Civ 5... CoH booster packs... That... accually may be it... less then I though, oh and Deus Ex in Oct. Mass 3 when it comes out... can't think of anything else that's got my eye...

So, I know i'm getting screwed... and a part of me kind of cares, but, I'm willing to endure it for games I really like. It's a vice. I don't give people a hard way to go when they blow there money on ciggerets, lotto tickets, or other "vices" they have that is, more or less, a total waste of money, because they enjoy it, and it isn't my place to judge.

I will say this about the video. I've always kind of been on the fence about used games. NEVER figured them in the same ball park as pirates, but, was always sympitic to developers over the lost revenue, but, this video is kind of swaying me. Jim, god forbid, made some decent points. I suppose what sours ME to used games is the fact i feel gamestop in general kind of screws over the kids with there prices, and, only shave off what, maybe 5 bucks off newer used games? I think that's borderline taking advantage of the poor kids who don't know anybetter, but, eh, it is a way from them to afford a different game they might not have gotten otherwise...

*shrug*

Food for thought anyways, nice ep.

Hitchmeister:
Terrible terrible argument. "I can waste as much money as I want on crap games, thereby encouraging publisher to keep making even worse games, because I can turn around and resell them to some other sucker who will also hate it. It doesn't matter how bad games get because of the lemming-like churn of money to be made off cycle bad games around the toilet of current gaming."

Show a little self-control and don't give publishers your money for games you hate and you won't need to be able to resell them to to the next poor sod.

But don't cry because you're too stupid to recognize crap after being sold it repeatedly. And don't blame the publishers for thinking that what you really want is more of the same crap you've resold time and time again. They can't hear you over the piles of your money they're busy counting.

Hey, it happens. When it does, it's like a last line of defense. If I enjoy a game, there's no way I'm going to sell it back. However when something turns out to be utter shit, hell yes I'm going to flip it and make more game purchases. Used games are the rare instance where shitty games can actually help the industry.

Kapol:
You know, the only really good examples Jim presented were pretty much all focused on one company, EA.

I think for the sake of keeping the video to a manageable and punchy length, it is quite necessary to focus on one particular player on the field. And not without merit: EA is arguably the biggest proponent of ethically questionable consumer policies.

I'm in agreed with all the points made Jim, and here's something for those who still defend the publishers and alike. If the offered 'free' DLC and alike from a new purchase isn't enough to make someone want to buy a game, then that's their fault not the buyer's. Stop trying to defend those who will go to lenghts to wring you dry of all you money and probably don't give a damn about you. Also let others be smart with their money if they want.

I like used games because after finishing or not using a game for however long, I can get rid of it without feeling like it's been wasted. I can get games that lack demons and see if I like them without having to lose £40-£50, on something I may not like. Also it lets me get a really old game that I missed out on.

Still Life:

Kapol:
You know, the only really good examples Jim presented were pretty much all focused on one company, EA.

I think for the sake of keeping the video to a manageable and punchy length, it is quite necessary to focus on one particular player on the field. And not without merit: EA is arguably the biggest proponent of ethically questionable consumer policies.

I can understand that to a degree, but most of the video seemed a bit rambly to me, and more examples could have easily been included. It just seems a bit silly to focus on easily the worst company and then say that ALL companies are guilty of doing the same sort of horrible things.

Littaly:
I'll confess that I don't have any sources to back this statement up, so someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you ask "aren't they making enough money already?" you make it sound like most publishers are greedy bastards sitting on piles of money, trying to suck you dry every chance they get. But the last thing I heard was that the only publisher who was turning a profit was Activision (and that was before they pulled the plug on Guitar Hero). I'm not saying their ways of making gamers pay more for their games aren't assy, I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.

Okay, I'll bite. You're wrong, very wrong. I could post several more, but here's EA's June quarter profits: http://www.vgchartz.com/article/87355/ea-profits-221m-in-the-june-2011-quarter-on-999m-in-revenue/

Hitchmeister:
Terrible terrible argument. "I can waste as much money as I want on crap games, thereby encouraging publisher to keep making even worse games, because I can turn around and resell them to some other sucker who will also hate it. It doesn't matter how bad games get because of the lemming-like churn of money to be made off cycle bad games around the toilet of current gaming."

Show a little self-control and don't give publishers your money for games you hate and you won't need to be able to resell them to to the next poor sod.

But don't cry because you're too stupid to recognize crap after being sold it repeatedly. And don't blame the publishers for thinking that what you really want is more of the same crap you've resold time and time again. They can't hear you over the piles of your money they're busy counting.

The problem with your argument is that quality is subjective. For example, Uncharted 2, all the reviews are "OMG!OMG!OMG!OMG!OMG!" and the demo was ok. So I bought the game and dude, get bored really fast. I traded the game with a cousin who love it and now can't wait to play the Uncharted 3. See, buy a game don't destroy the industry, dislike a game don't make it a crap and second hand marketing don't kill the franchise.

Littaly:
I'll confess that I don't have any sources to back this statement up, so someone, please correct me if I'm wrong. But when you ask "aren't they making enough money already?" you make it sound like most publishers are greedy bastards sitting on piles of money, trying to suck you dry every chance they get. But the last thing I heard was that the only publisher who was turning a profit was Activision (and that was before they pulled the plug on Guitar Hero). I'm not saying their ways of making gamers pay more for their games aren't assy, I hate them too, but a company is a company, you can't expect them to sit and do nothing when they're losing money.

I have a hard time beliving Activision was the ONLY company to make money... I'd need a source to belive that... but I do understand that not all game publishers are greedy basterds. And if used games ARE hurting there proft margens, they do need to do something about it, they just need better stragities. The stuff they are pulling off now, just pisses off there fan base, and doesn't really do much to battle the REAL enemy, gamestop and the like. Not US. But then, what they can do besides what they are, i'm not sure. I don't have an answer to that question... *shrug* Again, a reason i tend to be on the fence about this issue. I can kind of see some merit to both arguments.

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