The Big Picture: Gender Games

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Every so often, I and Moviebob align in opinions.
This is one of those times.
As someone who aspires to be a writer, either for video games or for regular novels, one of my biggest problems is portraying female characters. From test reads of what I'm working on right now, I'm doing a decent job at it, maybe because I force myself to try and keep in mind personality and motive over gender, sexuality or appearance.
Granted I don't visually design girls in any way, but now that I've started viewing everything from the perspective of a creator, rather than just a spectator, I started getting bothered by EXACTLY what Bob is saying, and it's making me dislike games I used to love.
Great Show Bob! We agree on something perfectly at last!
(Oh forgot to mention, still in high school, so yeah that's what I meant by "Aspiring")


So it's not about the skimpy outfits per se, but how they are posed in said outfits....

Perhaps I have too much testosterone, but could someone provide an example of the difference?

The character's pose communicates more about them than what they're wearing does (although the outfit can still be important).

Take the new Tomb Raider designs that have been put out: whilst she's still wearing a vest-top and has some great cleavage, her facial expressions and poses are what you're more drawn too. The tits aren't the centre of attention.

Compare that to the Underworld box art where they've literally cut her head out of the picture to maximise her tits and short-shorts.

OT: Considering the majority of opinions that are put out on the majority of relationship threads on this website, waiting for gamers to stop acting like women are evil is going to take a while.

Which I wouldn't have a problem with, except we're replacing the fearless adventurer with the frightened college student in a horror movie.

The big problem I think isn't so much sexy or pose, but how women are portrayed in games period.

Did anyone else notice a majority of the examples Bob posted were from fighting games? Games where characterization is crammed into 3 minutes of ass kicking, or outside the fight in bio blurbs which few people read or care about. Not a whole lot of room for character development. If most folks have to look up Mai on wiki to get the gist of the character, it's cause she yet another female character in a sea of fighting rosters.

But hey it's not Bobs fault, if you look out side fighting games, you pretty much get a sausage fest. Though fighting games don't exactly have equal rosters themselves, most end up looking pretty hotdogged, that is to say you'll end up with more hotdogs to a pack then you will buns.

Female characters more often then not serve as love interests to be avenged, rescued, lamented over, or back ground characters who sole purpose seems to be to make the game less homoerotic.

Female Leads are a bit of rarity, most gals are lucky to get one game that manages to be successful. While others might be part of rotating cast of characters like some franchise time share. As it stands there's really only two gals that have carried their respective franchise throughout, Samus Aran and Lara Croft. Both who have been "reinvented" to be more vulnerable. I'm not saying that vulnerable female characters are a bad thing, but does it have to be those two? The Lady Croft and Samus I fell in love with did run around and lose there shit every time something scary happens.

Anyway what we need are more gals in the foreground in games, ones that have character, and can be the star of the games themselves. We're getting there, but we're no where near the level of say comic books, which have a whole slew of female led teams, female teams and female lead characters.

And while we're on that subject where the hell is my Wonder Woman video game? Aquaman gets a game but not the Amazon Princess herself? Whats up with that?

Thank you, Moviebob, for putting it into words so well. (I should probably state, however, that many of the posts in this thread are...well, about what I'd expect.)

Or maybe make a female character that you don't want to fuck? Just a thought. Maybe have an actual person who happens to be female, and not an object of sexual desire?

In some people's opinion, that apparently defeats the entire purpose of the character being female to begin with. (Hell, I've heard people whining about the female characters in Rift.)

The real question, as far as I'm concerned, is whether or not so much of the market should be catering so heavily to that particular segment.

I reiterate: I LOVE YOU, MAN <3 Thank you for spreading awareness.

I think it all starts with language, especially with the whole industry only wanting to target their product to heterosexual, teenage boys instead of anyone else. It demonizes everyone who are and everything that is stereotypically, and I use that word lightly, feminine (ex: homosexual teenage boys, transgender people, and women). For instance, "lady gamers" sound just as ridiculous as "lady reader" or a "lady writer" or a "lady dancer". By referring to male gamers as just "gamers", you exclude an entire demographic. Women can be gamers too. They're gamers.

Another example would be the usage of "fag" when playing Call of Duty. I get all kinds of troglodytes using the word and it degrades homosexual men typically thought to be feminine (but aren't; there are homosexual men who are the most masculine people I know). That kind of language has to stop, especially if you don't mean it the way it sounds.


Well there's some studies, but sadly I'm gonna have to put those squarely in the "numbers may not lie, but I don't believe it anyway." category. Where are all these girl gamers? 42% of game players are women? Are they talking GAMES games or are they talking FACEBOOK/ZYNGA games? Because my eyes don't deceive me. Go to any game store you'd like to name and hang around for a day and survey how many women come in to buy games (for themselves) and how many males do. I didn't bother looking up "video game demographic information" because casual observation, the basis of scientific inquiry, tells me a different story blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Sorry, but I'm not convinced. At all.

If companies just want to turn a profit, then they should be investing in the same bejeweled/angry birds ventures that you offhandedly dismiss - these are the games that have the highest investment-profit ratios compared to trip-A titles.

What's your point? Economics rule? Social incentives don't matter? We shouldn't have any consumer conscience? Only cater to your target market (counter-example - look at your profile pic)? Moar Sex and violence?

Because you've said a whole lot of nothing so far. Maybe you just need to play more Orgasm Simulator - you need the link again, bro?


I agree and those changes would be most welcome. I do think though that if you reform the system (add female programmers such) , you will see an increase in games that focus less on sexuality. At the same time though i believe you will see little decrease in sexuality in gaming as it stands today. Sex has a very heavy influence in all arts.

I do believe I said "MOAR SEX PLZ"

and I meant it. Keep it "coming."

If you guys need a good facepalm look at this


90% of these anime/pony loving morons don't know what characterises a strong woman/or person in general (even if you leave the sexualization out of the argument, cringeworthy to say the least)

I feel the need to come back to this Video, mainly because I was so offended by it.

I used to think "Wow bob's a pretty smart guy,"
But now, I see him for what he really is: a Mangina.
Somehow, you feel the need to put down all us "gamers (read: men)
for liking the female form, then you come up with this ridicules argument about poses. Anyway, other people have already stated the MANY flaws with this video, the only thing that disappoints me is how many people AGREED with this crap.

Here's for you bob:

I used to like your stuff, but now I want nothing to do with it. No more. You are pathetic bob.

Oh, yes. How dare he call us possessers of the Y-chromosome out?! We must never forgive him! It's our right to stare at cleavage to our heart's content, and calling us out on it is verboten, and an obvious attempt at taking away what makes us real men!

Well, with my poor attempt at sarcasm out of the way... No, MovieBob is not being pathetic here, he is proposing his points, and I can agree with most of them. At least they are more cohesive than that disgusting link you have provided. It is filth that does not belong in a time that wishes itself to be enlightened and progressive.

This is not an assault upon your person. This is not some part of a massive conspiracy to undermine your rights. It is simply MovieBob explaining his view on why genderrolls in a game is offputting to some. And also a request for the gaming community in general to stop rushing to man the trenches at the very murmur of gender equality. One that haven't been heeded here, obviously...

Furthermore, explain to me why half of our species' population's wish for equal rights is a threat to you.

Is it bad that I could barely pick up on the feelings of those poses?

I suspect that it is considered improper of me to add to a thread this old, but I really, really, really had to say that by George, Bob, you can be amazing.

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