The Other Mrs. Doctor Who

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The Other Mrs. Doctor Who

If Romana could've gotten busy in the TARDIS, she might've stuck around longer.

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You said that this article had spoilers for the Wedding of River song but I can't actually see any.

Another good article, it is nice to see someone writing Doctor Who content (and the fact that you are a Doctor Who fan does make you that much cooler). I've always been a fan of River Song and the fact that she can (and does) show him up is my favourite part of her character. The best example of this is in the episode when he keeps getting annoyed that she is making corrections to his flying of the Tardis.

It's well known that Mr. Baker...rather liked the ladies. There's serious hints that there was a relationship between him and Leela, for example.

And then there's Tegan Jovanka and 5, Perpugilliam Brown and 6, and very obviously Sarah Jane/4, Rose/10-11.

But given Fred was President of Gallifrey before the war, I think she did rather well away from the Renegade. Especially as it's the same post that the Doctor turned down in The Deadly Assassin.

And Susan? The original Doctor's grand-daughter?

I don't think he's ever been chaste, more chased.

Vault Citizen:
You said that this article had spoilers for the Wedding of River song but I can't actually see any.

Another good article, it is nice to see someone writing Doctor Who content (and the fact that you are a Doctor Who fan does make you that much cooler). I've always been a fan of River Song and the fact that she can (and does) show him up is my favourite part of her character. The best example of this is in the episode when he keeps getting annoyed that she is making corrections to his flying of the Tardis.

There's one at the very end. Minor, and kind of obvious, given the title of the episode, but still. I hate to catch people unawares and diminish their enjoyment of the show at all.

The_root_of_all_evil:
It's well known that Mr. Baker...rather liked the ladies. There's serious hints that there was a relationship between him and Leela, for example.

And then there's Tegan Jovanka and 5, Perpugilliam Brown and 6, and very obviously Sarah Jane/4, Rose/10-11.

But given Fred was President of Gallifrey before the war, I think she did rather well away from the Renegade. Especially as it's the same post that the Doctor turned down in The Deadly Assassin.

And Susan? The original Doctor's grand-daughter?

I don't think he's ever been chaste, more chased.

Susan may have called him "grandfather," but it wasn't taken as being literal.

Also, are you saying that the actor had a way with the ladies, or the character? Because if it's the latter, I have to completely disagree.

Susan Arendt:

Vault Citizen:
You said that this article had spoilers for the Wedding of River song but I can't actually see any.

Another good article, it is nice to see someone writing Doctor Who content (and the fact that you are a Doctor Who fan does make you that much cooler). I've always been a fan of River Song and the fact that she can (and does) show him up is my favourite part of her character. The best example of this is in the episode when he keeps getting annoyed that she is making corrections to his flying of the Tardis.

There's one at the very end. Minor, and kind of obvious, given the title of the episode, but still. I hate to catch people unawares and diminish their enjoyment of the show at all.

I just saw the sentence in question. I somehow missed it when reading the article, sorry.

River Song / Melody Pond is interesting but now that we know how her story starts & ends and why she is allowed to walk out of prison without being put into a higher security area; I just don't see how Moffat will make her a more interesting character. Especially while maintaining the "they meet in reverse order" story structure.

I'm more interested in what Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter, has been up to. She wasn't thought up by Moffat, Stephen Greenhorn has that honor, but he has said that he would be interested in her getting her own spin-off or at the very least making a reappearance in the show. Considering how the Doctor is supposed to be dead and all it would make a great launching point next season for him to happen across her, whom he believes is dead. Especially when you consider how he's left Rory and Amy on their own for so long.

Susan Arendt:

Also, are you saying that the actor had a way with the ladies, or the character? Because if it's the latter, I have to completely disagree.

A bit from column A, a bit from column B. And I forgot about Dr. Grace Holloway and 8. Certainly something going on there.

1,2,7 were more paternal. 3...I think there was a May/December with Jo Grant - that's certainly hinted at in the acting.
Tom Baker was certain there was something going on with Leela ("That fur bikini, you know"), and the rest haven't been as forthcoming.

Given Romana 2 IRL ended up with Richard "I am the Lord of Atheism" Dawkins though, I think Romana got the better deal.

newwiseman:
River Song / Melody Pond is interesting but now that we know how her story starts & ends and why she is allowed to walk out of prison without being put into a higher security area; I just don't see how Moffat will make her a more interesting character. Especially while maintaining the "they meet in reverse order" story structure.

I'm more interested in what Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter, has been up to. She wasn't thought up by Moffat, Stephen Greenhorn has that honor, but he has said that he would be interested in her getting her own spin-off or at the very least making a reappearance in the show. Considering how the Doctor is supposed to be dead and all it would make a great launching point next season for him to happen across her, whom he believes is dead. Especially when you consider how he's left Rory and Amy on their own for so long.

Speaking of story arcs getting brushed aside, that's an absolutely sterling example.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Susan Arendt:

Also, are you saying that the actor had a way with the ladies, or the character? Because if it's the latter, I have to completely disagree.

A bit from column A, a bit from column B. And I forgot about Dr. Grace Holloway and 8. Certainly something going on there.

1,2,7 were more paternal. 3...I think there was a May/December with Jo Grant - that's certainly hinted at in the acting.
Tom Baker was certain there was something going on with Leela ("That fur bikini, you know"), and the rest haven't been as forthcoming.

Given Romana 2 IRL ended up with Richard "I am the Lord of Atheism" Dawkins though, I think Romana got the better deal.

Sorry, but I simply don't agree on that at all. (Well, the Doc shagging the help, not the Richard Dawkins thing. Don't even know who that is. :))

Perhaps other folks can chime in on whether or not they see the Classic Docs as chaste or not?

"7, really?"
"8 for you honey"
"Stop it"
"Make me"
"Yeah well maybe I will!"

*from the other side of the room*
"Is this really important flirting?"

Yeah, I enjoy River's flirting with Smith mainly because he flirts back. And since we still don't know the full story of their true relationship with each other, it makes it all the more fun.

Edit: I agree with root that there was something going on between Grace Holloway and 8 on screen. I haven't seen enough old Who episodes to make a informed opinion on anything else but Leela running around in a leather skin tight clothing is asking for trouble from a male designated driver!

Since I've only watched since Christopher Ecclestone, and since Billie Piper is smoking hot (hellooo Secret Diary...), it rather irks me when he gets flirty with someone else.

And River is really quite annoying.

Susan Arendt:

Sorry, but I simply don't agree on that at all. (Well, the Doc shagging the help,

This is where I think there's a real problem with the whole "unreality" situation.

I don't think he "shagged" them.

I do think he was "intimate" with them.

Given alien physiology, there's still quite a distinction.

And certainly not all...but if he can "love", then he can surely "lust".

And 4 was certainly lusty.

But, of course, then we're into the 9/Jack/Rose triangle...because 9 was definitely flirting with both. Or the 10/Master 'ship.

It'd be honestly easier looking at whether Homer Simpson and Maude Flanders ever thought about it.

Edit: Editing Y U NO WORK QUICK?

Susan Arendt:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Susan Arendt:

Also, are you saying that the actor had a way with the ladies, or the character? Because if it's the latter, I have to completely disagree.

A bit from column A, a bit from column B. And I forgot about Dr. Grace Holloway and 8. Certainly something going on there.

1,2,7 were more paternal. 3...I think there was a May/December with Jo Grant - that's certainly hinted at in the acting.
Tom Baker was certain there was something going on with Leela ("That fur bikini, you know"), and the rest haven't been as forthcoming.

Given Romana 2 IRL ended up with Richard "I am the Lord of Atheism" Dawkins though, I think Romana got the better deal.

Sorry, but I simply don't agree on that at all. (Well, the Doc shagging the help, not the Richard Dawkins thing. Don't even know who that is. :))

Perhaps other folks can chime in on whether or not they see the Classic Docs as chaste or not?

I've seen a fair amount of Classic Who and I can't say any of the Doctor's previous incarnations ever showed any form of sexual/romantic interest towards the companions until David Tennant and Rose. It's probably more to do with our own perceptions of the characters, given the fact that the females were there simply as eye candy for the viewers.

Or maybe I just watch these things with a fair too innocent eye. Either way, I think so long as the Doctor continues to be bemused by the prospect of romantic relationships, this particular theme will be fine ("She wants to take you out for texting and scones" is a perfect example of how the Doctor just doesn't get it.) I have no problem with other characters trying to force themselves upon him, to a certain extent, but should he respond in kind, I think my childhood shall be ruined forever. Something about it just feels wrong, like a trusted guardian abusing the children...

Susan Arendt:

Vault Citizen:
You said that this article had spoilers for the Wedding of River song but I can't actually see any.

Another good article, it is nice to see someone writing Doctor Who content (and the fact that you are a Doctor Who fan does make you that much cooler). I've always been a fan of River Song and the fact that she can (and does) show him up is my favourite part of her character. The best example of this is in the episode when he keeps getting annoyed that she is making corrections to his flying of the Tardis.

There's one at the very end. Minor, and kind of obvious, given the title of the episode, but still. I hate to catch people unawares and diminish their enjoyment of the show at all.

The_root_of_all_evil:
It's well known that Mr. Baker...rather liked the ladies. There's serious hints that there was a relationship between him and Leela, for example.

And then there's Tegan Jovanka and 5, Perpugilliam Brown and 6, and very obviously Sarah Jane/4, Rose/10-11.

But given Fred was President of Gallifrey before the war, I think she did rather well away from the Renegade. Especially as it's the same post that the Doctor turned down in The Deadly Assassin.

And Susan? The original Doctor's grand-daughter?

I don't think he's ever been chaste, more chased.

Susan may have called him "grandfather," but it wasn't taken as being literal.

I think she was supposed to be his Granddaughter, If only because she mentions to rose that he was a dad once and later clarifies that it was all taken away from him in the Time War. Along with refusing to answer Amy's questions about him having children.

Proverbial Jon:

Susan Arendt:

The_root_of_all_evil:

A bit from column A, a bit from column B. And I forgot about Dr. Grace Holloway and 8. Certainly something going on there.

1,2,7 were more paternal. 3...I think there was a May/December with Jo Grant - that's certainly hinted at in the acting.
Tom Baker was certain there was something going on with Leela ("That fur bikini, you know"), and the rest haven't been as forthcoming.

Given Romana 2 IRL ended up with Richard "I am the Lord of Atheism" Dawkins though, I think Romana got the better deal.

Sorry, but I simply don't agree on that at all. (Well, the Doc shagging the help, not the Richard Dawkins thing. Don't even know who that is. :))

Perhaps other folks can chime in on whether or not they see the Classic Docs as chaste or not?

I've seen a fair amount of Classic Who and I can't say any of the Doctor's previous incarnations ever showed any form of sexual/romantic interest towards the companions until David Tennant and Rose. It's probably more to do with our own perceptions of the characters, given the fact that the females were there simply as eye candy for the viewers.

Or maybe I just watch these things with a fair too innocent eye. Either way, I think so long as the Doctor continues to be bemused by the prospect of romantic relationships, this particular theme will be fine ("She wants to take you out for texting and scones" is a perfect example of how the Doctor just doesn't get it.) I have no problem with other characters trying to force themselves upon him, to a certain extent, but should he respond in kind, I think my childhood shall be ruined forever. Something about it just feels wrong, like a trusted guardian abusing the children...

That's why I quite like the notion of him and River. Him and one of the other companions? No, because he's in a superior position to them. They need him to save their lives, so him pushing his affections on them would be a bit...ick. But River can take care of herself quite well, thank you very much, so if they do come together, it's on equal footing. Quite fun, that.

I'm with you, though - I don't think the Doctor was ever portrayed as a sexual (or romantic) being until Tennant.

Proverbial Jon:

I've seen a fair amount of Classic Who and I can't say any of the Doctor's previous incarnations ever showed any form of sexual/romantic interest towards the companions until David Tennant and Rose.

In my defence:

No sexual tension there?

(It's a subjective thing, so I won't go off on one if you say no :) )

Equally,

or,

Tegan's is especially poignant, given Amy's departure as well. "No more bloodshed"

Susan Arendt:

newwiseman:
River Song / Melody Pond is interesting but now that we know how her story starts & ends and why she is allowed to walk out of prison without being put into a higher security area; I just don't see how Moffat will make her a more interesting character. Especially while maintaining the "they meet in reverse order" story structure.

I'm more interested in what Jenny, the Doctor's Daughter, has been up to. She wasn't thought up by Moffat, Stephen Greenhorn has that honor, but he has said that he would be interested in her getting her own spin-off or at the very least making a reappearance in the show. Considering how the Doctor is supposed to be dead and all it would make a great launching point next season for him to happen across her, whom he believes is dead. Especially when you consider how he's left Rory and Amy on their own for so long.

Speaking of story arcs getting brushed aside, that's an absolutely sterling example.

Yep,

I also would have liked it to be explained in The End of Time that the Time Lord/Lady who keeps appearing to Wilfred Mott, Donna's Grandfather, is Susan the doctors Grand Daughter and first companion. But noticing stuff like that is what being a nerd is for.

TimeLord:
"7, really?"
"8 for you honey"
"Stop it"
"Make me"
"Yeah well maybe I will!"

*from the other side of the room*
"Is this really important flirting?"

Yeah, I enjoy River's flirting with Smith mainly because he flirts back. And since we still don't know the full story of their true relationship with each other, it makes it all the more fun.

It kinda hampers the effectiveness of the character that we already know how she dies.

artanis_neravar:

Susan Arendt:

Vault Citizen:
You said that this article had spoilers for the Wedding of River song but I can't actually see any.

Another good article, it is nice to see someone writing Doctor Who content (and the fact that you are a Doctor Who fan does make you that much cooler). I've always been a fan of River Song and the fact that she can (and does) show him up is my favourite part of her character. The best example of this is in the episode when he keeps getting annoyed that she is making corrections to his flying of the Tardis.

There's one at the very end. Minor, and kind of obvious, given the title of the episode, but still. I hate to catch people unawares and diminish their enjoyment of the show at all.

The_root_of_all_evil:
It's well known that Mr. Baker...rather liked the ladies. There's serious hints that there was a relationship between him and Leela, for example.

And then there's Tegan Jovanka and 5, Perpugilliam Brown and 6, and very obviously Sarah Jane/4, Rose/10-11.

But given Fred was President of Gallifrey before the war, I think she did rather well away from the Renegade. Especially as it's the same post that the Doctor turned down in The Deadly Assassin.

And Susan? The original Doctor's grand-daughter?

I don't think he's ever been chaste, more chased.

Susan may have called him "grandfather," but it wasn't taken as being literal.

I think she was supposed to be his Granddaughter, If only because she mentions to rose that he was a dad once and later clarifies that it was all taken away from him in the Time War. Along with refusing to answer Amy's questions about him having children.

Originally she wasn't going to be his grand daughter but the writers didn't think it was appropriate for an old guy and a young woman to be living together if they weren't related.

Well, I've only seen a few here and there of the old series, and getting better bit by bit, but I think I would attribute what I've seen mostly to the actor flirting with the girls rather than the Doctor flirting with them. And considering the change in times, where nowadays we're not as afraid to show a more committed character onscreen, the potential for intimacy is much higher. But then, that's a character thing. A character like Rose would be more content with the intimacy factor, being a much more emotional character than, let's say River Song. River is a much more physical and carefree character, and wouldn't let something like a little biology or rules stand in the way of her fun.

From what I've seen of Romana and Sarah Jane, however (and it's not much, I'll admit), both of them either seek to be the Doctor's equal rather than his love, in any form. And while yeah, they might seek a physical relationship once the emotional is present (which they probably would), the logical side of them might get in the way. Trying to be the Doctor's equal means having to fight with that ego, and that's no small thing.

And while he might avoid it, the Doctor certainly knows what to do--even if it's been awhile.

Insightful as always Susan! And I really must watch more of the original series. o.o

Susan Arendt:
Perhaps other folks can chime in on whether or not they see the Classic Docs as chaste or not?

I always thought that the 4th Doctor and Romana v2 were in the sack together. That change in dynamic you mentioned - where they seemed to become equals, and the banter started. To me, that rang of how one speaks with his or her lover.

I realize a lot of that comes from the fact that the actors were in the sack, but the writers (and the writing) seemed to reflect that and imply it as well. You don't talk to your students like that - you don't talk to your friends like that either.

Well, unless they're friends with benefits.

The_root_of_all_evil:

In my defence:

No sexual tension there?

(It's a subjective thing, so I won't go off on one if you say no :) )

Curious, I've seen all of those farewells and their episodes previously but never has it seemed like sexual tension to me. Poignant indeed, as you say, but nothing beyond that. I guess I've just never had that mindset, for me it's always just been two good friends parting.

I must say Tegan has always been a favourite of mine and her farewell both surprised and delighted me, it was so wonderfully sudden and unexpected and yet still completely Tegan.

Susan Arendt:
This Doctor can get laid.

Well that's a rather crude way of putting it Susan, but I suppose you're right.
My Doctor Who experience started with the New Who, so maybe I don't notice it as much. My first Doctor Who thing that I ever really sat down and watched was a marathon of those Specials that followed Series 4 except for End of Time. I've tried to go back and watch the Classic Who, but the Canadian Netflix's selection is extremely limited.

Anyway personally I feel that River was a more intriguing character back when we barely knew anything about her. It's kinda like what Yahtzee once said about mysteries losing all their appeal the instant you explain them.

Doctor, Doctor,
Gimme the news
I got a
Bad case of lovin' you

The_root_of_all_evil:
In my defence:
-snip-

Man I need to go back and watch more of the old series.
Is it wrong that I'll always see Peter Davison as Tristan Farnon instead of the 5th doctor?

And, I love the Doctor and River when they start flirting. It's always so well written by Steven Moffat. That incredible man.

newwiseman:

I also would have liked it to be explained in The End of Time that the Time Lord/Lady who keeps appearing to Wilfred Mott, Donna's Grandfather, is Susan the doctors Grand Daughter and first companion. But noticing stuff like that is what being a nerd is for.

waitwaitwut

Is that just a theory of yours or has there been some indication that that's who she was? I was under the impression that that character had been purposefully left unexplained.

Ser Imp:
Doctor, Doctor,
Gimme the news
I got a
Bad case of lovin' you

The_root_of_all_evil:
In my defence:
-snip-

Man I need to go back and watch more of the old series.
Is it wrong that I'll always see Peter Davison as Tristan Farnon instead of the 5th doctor?

Nope I watched him in All Creatures grunt and smell before he was in Dr Who. I remember wondering when Siegfried Farnon was going to turn up in the tardis

I'll be honest, I find River Song rather grating so I didn't take this marriage as good news. And I'm still not sure how well something so immutable would fit with the whole regeneration thing. It feels weird having the Doctor married when we know that Chris E, or DT's doctors probably wouldn't have the same sort of feelings

Ah, Lalla Ward. Always had a smile that could melt my heart. Shame I can't find the video interview to go with it, but this transcript of Lalla recounting her first chat with Patrick Stewart is quite amusing. How times change!

Susan Arendt:
The Other Mrs. Doctor Who

If Romana could've gotten busy in the TARDIS, she might've stuck around longer.

Read Full Article

Great article. I'm just disappointed how the River Song story arc turned out. I think it would have been much better if she had been a Time Lady from The Doctor's past that he didn't recognize. It would have fit much better and been more believable than human + human + (In the TARDIS) = Time Lord baby.

And with the talk of story arcs, it isn't really a story arc yet, but at the end of the episode "The End of Time(Part 2)", Wilfred asks The Doctor who the old lady was that kept appearing to him, and also showed her face to The Doctor before he shot the bridge/gateway machine. In that scene, after that question is asked, we see The Doctor look up and over at Donna in the background and doesn't answer the question, just continues with giving Wilf the lottery ticket present for Donna.

That to me means that the old lady was Donna, but that is a really bizarre idea. It makes me wonder, if the old lady was Donna, then how did she end up on Gallifrey in the Time War. I think it would be very interesting to have couple or three episode arc that deals with how that happened.

She never really threatened his position as de facto leader, despite the fact that she could do just about everything he could (backwards, in heels, no less)

infact she can do a few things better than him, take flying the TARDIS the doctor has been flying it the whole time with the parking brake on.

River Song is the programme's best reason to stop watching. I'm just glad she's out of regenerations, hopefully she'll die soon.

kurupt87:
River Song is the programme's best reason to stop watching. I'm just glad she's out of regenerations, hopefully she'll die soon.

She already died in season four. Time travel is odd like that.

As a recent american convert to the fellowship of the doctor, this column rocks and I will read it frequently. Or not, considering that we just witnessed the season finale.

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