Jimquisition: Dynasty Warriors Is The Citizen Kane Of Gaming

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I've not played Dynasty Warriors since 5 simply because i never know which one to get because there are so many versions. I do, however, pick up every installment of Dynasty Warriors Gundam that finds it's way to the U.K.

A game that mixes a love of Dynasty Warriors and Gundam? I THINK SO!

CrawlingPastaHellion:

CriticKitten:
...

Let's agree to disagree. I think the combat in all the DW games I played is pretty clunky. I like my combat to be fluent and "Devil Kings" surely delivers on that front.

Also, "Devil Kings" wasn't a knock-off of DW, but rather of the "Samurai Warriors" franchise (KOEI had nothing to do with it). But that's really beside the point, since you can argue as well that DW was a knock-off of "Streets of Rage", that in itself wouldn't make DW any less of a game. I know I'm going far here, but really, where does one draw a line? Next we'll be accusing HL to be a Doom-clone.

"Devil Kings" is even simpler than that: it drops the half-assed strategy, simplifies leveling by reducing the stats (still comes out better, there are a lot more special moves) and focuses more on the action. Since that's what mattered to Jim, I thought he should give that game a try and anyone that didn't try it should do too.

Yeah, also I couldn't care less if DW is being praised, that's called a "Bandwagon Argument", "Peer Pressure" or "Appeal to Common Practice". A fallacious argument. I.e.: the fact that DW is being praised does not make it better than "Devil Kings" in itself.

I liked what they tried to do with DW, seriously, mixing an action game and a war-game is a splendid idea. I love both genres. Yet DW suffers in execution and according to me a lot more could be done with that particular idea. Maybe I'd change my mind if I'd play the seventh game, but sadly I don't have a PS3 and I'm not planning on getting one any time soon.

I have no idea what you two are talking about but I just happened to go see the last page of the discussion. Both Samurai Warriors AND Dynasty Warriors were published through Koei by a studio called Omega Force. So a knock-off of Samurai Warriors might as well be a knock-off of Dynasty Warriors as both games were made by the same studio (who everyone mistakenly refers to as Koei).

I'm confused...what actually makes it the Citizen Kane of Gaming?

It was hated when it first came out and is now primarily watched by film students and pretentious snobs who only care about artsy films*?

...I'm not seeing where the simile really comes into play here.

*For what it's worth, I do like Citizen Kane, I'm just not seeing how it relates to Dynasty Warriors.

I'm personally not the biggest fan of Dynasty Warriors, but...

image

THIS. GAME. IS. AWESOME!!!

Hypocrisy? Negligible. The devs and style of the game are the same, but it's set in medieval Europe instead of medieval China, with squad-based ass-kicking and a wonderful variety of enemies. Yes. Please.

Wait. People are agreeing with Jim? Or at least getting the joke? When did that start happening? I though people still disagreed with Jim, here.

Anyway, I haven't played too many Dynasty Warrior games, but I have enjoyed what I have played. I just wish the allies were able to cross the street without requiring you to hold their hands. Often times I found my allies died anytime a semi competent general or commander approached them. So, I would find myself choosing between saving an ally and taking a important point. If I was playing with a friend, this was made easier (we could do both). And that was really my only real complaint. Though, I haven't picked one up in a while. I might have to if they release another good one or an interesting spin off.

does that include gundam warriors?

I Liked Dynasty Warriors back when it was actually trying to make people look like the way the actually were, but then I lost interest when the whole series took every single character, took one personality trait, and turned the dial till it broke, then fucked it.

Then added nothing to the gameplay.

Interesting episode as always.

Dynasty Warriors has been one of my favorite series of games since 4. Though I do prefer the romance of the three kingdom games more for the strategic depth, DW is still damn fun and the music's better.

Kinda amazed though how Koei can but put the same game two or three times a year for a decade and have the concept still be popular. They're sure as hell doing something right.

This is the only episode of this I watched and liked. I am just going to end with this now. I really liked this episode, and I love Dynasty Warriors, so I may watch some more of his stuff now.

I don't know jack all about Citizen Kane(I assume it's a genre defining film) so I can't say anything about the comparison Jim makes, but I did play a couple of Dynasty Warriors games and found them to be fun. They aren't deep and they aren't thought provoking but they do provide fun on a very basic level. Definitely a stress reliever.

... I didn't like the GBA one though.

I was skeptical about the subject but the voice over point convinced me.

I... was also unaware of any public hatred for Dynasty Warriors o.0
Some of my fonder memories of the Xbox/Ps2 were the Dynasty Warriors games, and I'll be picking up 7 once I have some more spare cash on hand.
There IS actually a lot of strategy and depth that you CAN apply to DW, but only to whatever level you want to, in earlier stages either killing mindlessly or being strategic will work, but mindlessly killing gets much harder over time unless you've put some effort into your levels and weapons.

It's also insanely fun to try and play Chaos mode on a level 1 character >.>

-Dragmire-:
... I didn't like the GBA one though.

GBA versions of a game for any other console are almost universally crap :/ exceptions exist, but not a lot.
Wasn't until the DS and PSP that handhelds started to hold ground as full consoles, and not just something to play because there was no other option :P

And once again the whole Escapist community wages civil war with each other with such a simple statement. Gold star. It's not so much of nerd-baiting as it is being actually influenced by it.

As for repetitive gaming, I can pretty much say the gaming generation today is pretty repetitive in its totality that the only ones that add variety and even some "new" things to the table is what I love to play.

I should point out the "Citizen Kane" statement is facetious, used to facilitate the joke at the end involving Yahtzee and Extra Credits. The message of the video is that I like the series and some of the criticism it gets is a bit unfair. It's not really meant to argue that the game is like Citizen Kane. I've said within this very series that I find Citizen Kane comparisons stupid. T'was a bit of that old irony one hears so much about.

Anyway, blown away by the amount of people who came out to say they liked DW too. It makes a change from every other conversation I have where everyone dumps all over it. :-)

Jimothy Sterling:
I should point out the "Citizen Kane" statement is facetious, used to facilitate the joke at the end involving Yahtzee and Extra Credits. The message of the video is that I like the series and some of the criticism it gets is a bit unfair. It's not really meant to argue that the game is like Citizen Kane. I've said within this very series that I find Citizen Kane comparisons stupid. T'was a bit of that old irony one hears so much about.

Anyway, blown away by the amount of people who came out to say they liked DW too. It makes a change from every other conversation I have where everyone dumps all over it. :-)

For you to actually post the irony of the joke means something about the entirety of the Escapist community. I find myself that the community has become quite sensitive these days to any statement they deem false. Or that might not be the case considering how fun it is to debate .-.

actually... I bought like 3 games... just got sick of the restart... my characters were all sooooo powerful... anyhow... God Of War China => Lu bu!!!~

SoulSalmon:

-Dragmire-:
... I didn't like the GBA one though.

GBA versions of a game for any other console are almost universally crap :/ exceptions exist, but not a lot.
Wasn't until the DS and PSP that handhelds started to hold ground as full consoles, and not just something to play because there was no other option :P

Ah, I didn't realize it was a port(or whatever you would call a reimagining of a particular game title to a console/handheld that can't possibly imitate the original game it's based on). I assumed Dynasty Warriors Advanced was as well designed a game as the PS2 ones were (and it looked kind of like Secret of Mana on the back of the box(The actual reason I bought it).

I can't remember the particular PS2 DW games I played as I only rented them and that was years ago but they were a blast. I'll probably look into getting the most recent game once by backlog of games to play shrinks a bit.

Now, I don't have any problems with Dynasty Warriors, but the analogy just doesn't work. Citizen Kane was a masterpiece of direction and unconventional (for the time) storytelling... but it was -boring-.

A better analogy would be that Dynasty Warriors is the Rambo of games. It's entertaining, but not very deep or thoughtful.

Hmmm, well I agree with Jim's points here to an extent, but don't think he goes far enough. He's pretty much saying the same thing in defense of Dynasty Warriors, that I have said in defense of things like turn based RPGs. They might not be to everyone's taste, but there is no reason to insult them because they aren't to yours, and making absurd claims about a series or game genere goes from bad to worse when those claims become popularized by those who parrot them without even realizing how untrue they happen to be.

That said, I have to say that when I was looking at the brawler analogy being made here that the first thing that came to mind was the current "X-men: Destiny" game, which actually seemed to be a lot closer to the old school brawler dynamic than your typical Dynasty Warrior game, and left me, and a lot of other people feeling quite disappointed.

To be honest, I think one of the problems with games like "Dynasty Warriors" is the amount of money they are charging for them. These games are selling for the same, relatively high price, as other games that took more funds and efforts to develop. I think people would receive them better, and be less critical, if the prices were lowered comparitively to the actual production values of the game.

I have gone off before about how price fixing within the industry has lead to an enviroment where you generally pay the same price irregardless of the actual game quality. Without going into the issue of morality, and even the legality, of price fixing (which I have done before), the bottom line is that when you hold a game in one hand that has state of the art graphics, professionally directed FMV video sequences that give Pixar a run for it's money, celebrity voice work, and othet hings... and then say "X-Men Destiny" or "Dynasty Warriors" in the other hand with it's less than state of the art production values and realize that the same price is attached to each... then there is a definate "WTF" reaction, leading to things being judged a lot more harshly than they probably should be. I think games like the "Dynasty Warriors" franchise get slammed largely because of the price point. The thing is though that the criticisms that are parrotted oftentimes begin with professional game reviewers, who are in many cases in an awkward position where even if they somehow haven't been paid off to endorse a product and can actually review one, that certain aspects of criticism like calling a specific group of game producers a bunch of greedy crooks, are out of line. Especially when you consider that in many cases that "greed" might actually be coming from general industry corruption rather than specific publishers, with everyone cooperating in price setting so there won't be a lot of people trying to undercut anyone else and so on.

That's my thoughts on the subject, and I'm keeping it brief rather than going into another long speil on price setting and other industry practices. The bottom line here is that I think there are reasons for the massive criticism of franchises like "Dynasty Warriors" that have little to do with the question of how fun the games might be, and just aren't addressed for professional reasons. See if "Dynasty Warriors" or other brawler-type games like say "X-Men: Destiny" were sold for $20 instead of $60 brand new... well, I doubt you'd get as much criticism. In playing "Destiny" for example I was thinking back to the olllld X-men brawler which saw digital re-release not too long ago, taken as an upgrade of THAT game as opposed to a sequel to the previous "X-Men Legends" games it's pretty good, but in today's market a game of that sort that takes 4-6 hours tops to play through beating the crap out of generic enemies should not be going for $60... and the same thing applies to Dynasty Warriors.

Im glad someone who will get to more people finally said it. DW gets alot of shit by people who never played it. Usually by people who pretend new always means good.

Dynasty Warriors sucks?

WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME THIS?

GRATS JIM! Lets just hope the escapist keeps you. And, ya know... pays you. They seem to have alot of trouble with that. And I love the insanity of this episode. The whole "In your face assbag trolls and haters", hearing it from you, just made my day.

And I also liked this episode as a whole. Dynasty Warriors is a pretty beat up game when it comes to reviews - with most of the reviews criticizing it for things its previous installments did. I will concede, releasing the sheer volume of games they do a year is a bit shitty, especially since the extra games usually just felt like they should be on the main game, but hey - it makes them money.

The button mashing arguement never made sence to me. Most games are button mashers. RPG's, action RPG's, Shooters, Fighters - most of them boil down to Press ___ repeatedly. Sure, you CAN switch weapons, reload, use combos, etc. but if your going to say one game is a button masher, and ignore its larger mechanics, I'll do the same for every other game.

Also, I'm really glad about what you said at the end. Because honestly, I could see you make a compelling episode about WHY it is the citizen cain of gaming. It'd be a stretch, but yeah. You got popular from nerdbaiting, and its looking like its working. Im suprised to yet see a person who said "yeah, it is" (atleast so far, Im just skimming the comments). Usually some of the people, usually the ones that fight you tooth and nail, dont get it... And quite a few others too who agree with the opinion and not realize the satire.

But yeah, thank god for you. Your the only decent thing left on this site.

Hey, DW 2 prompted me to read Three Kingdoms, which in turn caused me to study Sinology, in which I now hold a B.A.

So yeah, I liked that game :)

I understand, I used to buy Dynasty Warriors games after they hit the bargain bin for some dumb-fun co-op. After a while they were just too similar to each other to keep me caring. It started feeling like I was paying to erase my save and start the same game again. Nowadays I prefer to get that kind of dumb co-op fun from Sengoku Basara on the Wii (It's on PS3 too I think). I find it so much more over-the-top than Dynasty Warriors, and the unlockable special moves (Really simple button presses) make it that much more fun to play. You should give it a go if you have the time and money to spare Jim.

I definitely think there's always a place for the fun co-op hack and slash kind of game, even if it's not the most deepest or most memorable experience.

I ALSO LOVE DYNASTY WARRIORS!
Thank God for you Jim- I'm glad to see more Jimquisition

I recommend DW to everyone left and right. Its unlike anything else in gaming. I can't guarantee you'll like it but you need to give it a fair shot to know, right?

The games sell well enough that their price remains high here in Holland (new copies of DW7 are 55 euros at all game stores I frequent). They are almost never returned used and are frequently sold out at various stores (I keep checking, hoping to find a cheaper deal). Despite all the harping you see online about "why are people still playing this?" there's loads of evidence in the real world that people in fact do play the hell out of these games and not just in Asia.

Doesn't mean I don't like more difficult or more thoughtful games, I RPG and X4 and MOBA and Shooter and Fighting Game (?!) my way through my free time as well but DW offers something none of those do so I keep it around.

UrbanCohort:
I'll take your liking Dynasty Warriors and up the ante by declaring a fondness for DW6e.

Yep, that one's fun. Got a platinum trophy on it. I think a lot of people avoided it because of dislike for DW6.

Undead Dragon King:

-- Bladestorm image --
THIS. GAME. IS. AWESOME!!!

And yes, totally agreed. Rumours of a part 2 have been floating around since it came out but we never saw it. Darn shame, it's a real diamond in the rough.

So true..
Played everyone since 3

It's hilarious to see how many people that thinks he's serious when he calls it the Citizen Kane of gaming. It appears that even through video, alot of people completely fail to detect sarcasm and jokes. It's not just a problem with written works. I'm starting to think that it's not the medium that's the problem, but the people.

But... all you did was defend the game on its own merits, not explain why it is the Citizen Kane of gaming. Defending it as good is one thing, defending it as a benchmark that every other serious game will inevitably be compared to it something else entirely, and I didn't see that at all. A second part incoming, perhaps?

Jim Sterling:
Dynasty Warriors Is The Citizen Kane Of Gaming

I thought you said, Jim, that calling games the "Citizen Kane of gaming" was doing a huge disservice to gaming (his first episode on the Escapist)

Ive never heard anyone say a bad thing about Dynasty Warriors. In fact, the only thing I ever heard about it was Rooster Teeths "This is...Dynasty Warriors", and they loved it.

Also, for the most part I like Jims reviews. The bits I dont like are the start and end of the episode, where you can actually see him and hes acting like a knob.

I too love Dynasty Warriors, 3 was the first one I played and gone all the way through (on the PS2/PS3) to DW7, which I love. Te DLC weapons are hilarious

I am more and more confused with this site and its community, lately.

So, debating became a bad thing exactly when? I wasn't warned. The 'sarcastic' comments poking fun at people who disliked the game/columnist/episode are ludicrous at best. Are people really this black-or-white?

About the episode, I liked some of your latest shows, especially the used games ones. This one, regrettably, goes back to the 'average-ranting-videogame-guy' which is old and tired. I really hope a new show comes up that doesn't feel the need to fence with its audience at every turn.

It is a beaten-up persona, Jim.

About DW, I never really managed to enjoy it. Mainly because it IS god-awful repetitive. Yes, trying to achieve 1 Gogolplex Combo hits might be fun for a while, but when you exhaust what little diversity you have, in terms of weapons, attacks and mainly, enemies, it becomes too formulaic to be enjoyable, for my tastes. I drown in catharsis in other titles, such as Pac Man DX or even vanilla Tetris.

I do understand why some like it. But it's not for me.

Very entertaining review. Would definitely give DW a try!

AzrealMaximillion:

Koei has been using that setting since 1985.

The big lump of WW2 games didn't come until the mid-late 90s. I think it's adorable that people keep forgetting that.

Of course, that belies the commonality of shooter titles drenched in identical settings by dishonestly trying to pretend the number of years is more important than the quantity of titles.

But hey, if you really NEED to hide behind that, go for it.

Of course, the rest were still the lies Jim was addressing, so run with the dishonesty, I guess?

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