Jimquisition: Dynasty Warriors Is The Citizen Kane Of Gaming

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Wolfenbarg:
But... all you did was defend the game on its own merits, not explain why it is the Citizen Kane of gaming. Defending it as good is one thing, defending it as a benchmark that every other serious game will inevitably be compared to it something else entirely, and I didn't see that at all. A second part incoming, perhaps?

I'm amazed people are still taking the "Citizen Kane" thing seriously.

pfft it's hardly reasonable to compare it to Citizen Kane. I mean, sure, its good, But it's just a movie.

On the topic of DW, I really want them to expand their 'Kingdoms' installments. I love adding diplomacy, recruitment, more army control, troop upgrades, territory advances etc etc into my hack and slash games.

I like to choose who is king of what kingdom and place their position somewhere then start the campaign with my custom made hero either has Ruler, Vassal or Merc but the game was too simple. Some more features and complex strategy components please :D

Anyway I like how you gave some attention to DW as it doesn't get enough love. oh and I really am not a hack n slash fan while DW is the exception so they must be doing something right.

Well done Jim, you couldn't be more right. Dynasty Warriors 3 was great. Dynasty Warriors 4 was a masterpiece. 5 & 6 tried new things, but failed to capture the greatness of 4, but 7 is like refined DW4 in HD and is INCREDIBLE! Well said Jim... thank Gawd for You.

EverythingIncredible:
My beef with Dynasty Warriors is just that it is repetitive. I think that's what people mean when they say that Dynasty Warriors is a button masher.

Contra is not repetitive. And neither is Super Mario Bros. But I can understand if you like it.

Though, Koei has done not a damn thing to win me over. And I've tried. Oh, how I've tried to get into their style of games. But almost every one of their titles are either sub par or just downright boring.

No, it's not because it's repetitive.
It's because it IS a button masher. :>
An -awesome-, button masher.

But I've been in love with the series since Dynasty warriors 2, so I may be biased.

I hate the "it's good because I can just turn my brain off" argument.

The Transformers movies are kinda like that but in no way are they good movies.

Comparing it to really old arcade games is fine but at this day and age you would forgive us if we expect something more out of our $500 hardware. The only way I would say that DW is good is that if I got it for $4 off the bargain bin. Then yes it would totally worth the money.

Therumancer:

To be honest, I think one of the problems with games like "Dynasty Warriors" is the amount of money they are charging for them. These games are selling for the same, relatively high price, as other games that took more funds and efforts to develop. I think people would receive them better, and be less critical, if the prices were lowered comparitively to the actual production values of the game.

Agreed.

Togs:
Yes Dynasty Warriors is therapeutic, but its still shallow shovelware.

Im definately one of the haters but its not because I dont like the game its because I hate what Koei have done with the series, released the same game year in year out with an everincreasing number of minor but often ridiculous changes.

Isn't that also what has happens with Call of Duty? Oh wait your in WW2 for 1-2-3, Then 4 is modern war, then 5 is WW2 again, then 6 is modern war, then 7 is Vietnam, then 8 is modern war. So that makes it all different right?

I only have two "Warriors" games, Dynasty Warriors 6 Empires & Samurai Warriors 2, and he didn't mention my favourite thing in them: A Civilopedia.

Dynasty Warriors 6 Empires has a huge library of background information about the real War of the Three Kingdoms, as well as the novel. It was expansive enough to get me interested in Chinese history predating the KMT, so there. A dumb button masher made me more intellectually curious about an oft-neglected aspect of history.

Gotta agree.
And Jim did grow on me a bit.

But to DW I prefer it's clone, for lack of a better word, Capcom's Sengoku Basara.

Especially SB3, where they brought in the visual-novel style multiple route progression with different endings.

LostNightRecon:

Isn't that also what has happens with Call of Duty? Oh wait your in WW2 for 1-2-3, Then 4 is modern war, then 5 is WW2 again, then 6 is modern war, then 7 is Vietnam, then 8 is modern war. So that makes it all different right?

Never said it did, Im personally not a fan of CoD for similar reasons (plus I hate shooters).

@05:10 I think we broke him...

Glad to see the show is still going. Would you mind not cashing your check until next Tuesday?

Anyways, LuBu makes DW worth it on his own.

So there are other Dynasty Warriors fans besides me and my brother. I was wondering about that. Someone had to be buying the games besides us but I could never find anyone else who had even heard of the series.

Thank God for Koei.

Oh god the voice acting of dw3 was epic :) Surprised he didn't show one of the games endings which is basically the characters having "fun" and doing silly dances:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7i9MtfuhyA

Haven't really kept up with the series since dw5 which I thought was a big disappointment overall compared to 4 or 3 but good thing about this series is you can quit and come back anytime and be confident the story and characters are more or less how you remember them xD

GeneralFungi:
You went a little insane during this episode Jim. I don't know if I should be calling you a psychiatrist or a priest.

But good episode none-the-less.

I can appreciate a bit of insanity. Between the mad cackle and the kick ass theme song, Jim should be a supervillain.
Let the freak flag fly.

I don't have anything against people liking bad games but it's annoying when they try to convince others it's good. Is he saying that every DW game is good or did he just really like the first one? If they only made one quality DW game a generation, they could be argued to be the Citizen Kane of gaming but with the oversaturation it's more like the Police Academy (okay American Pie for those of you who have no idea what Police Academy is) of gaming. Like any good series/artist, it needs to evolve (just a little) over time or else it becomes overspecialized and bland.

Crap, I thought Mystery Men was hilarious (maybe not as funny as Dynasty Warriors) but I don't ever plan to try and convince someone it was a good movie.

92Sierra:

Meanwhile, Koei has finally listened to me:http://troy-game.com/ I've been saying that they should do this since I first discovered Dynasty Warriors.

I think the game looks like it may have some AI issues from the gameplay video shown, but I enjoyed that the website accepted my date of birth as being in the year 1231

Big love for Gan Ning, And this video has made me actually go and download the MMO

Zachary Amaranth:

AzrealMaximillion:

Koei has been using that setting since 1985.

The big lump of WW2 games didn't come until the mid-late 90s. I think it's adorable that people keep forgetting that.

Of course, that belies the commonality of shooter titles drenched in identical settings by dishonestly trying to pretend the number of years is more important than the quantity of titles.

But hey, if you really NEED to hide behind that, go for it.

Of course, the rest were still the lies Jim was addressing, so run with the dishonesty, I guess?

See, the funny thing is that most shooters aren't in identical settings. Their just the most popular. Yes there is a large quantity of WW2 shooters, but to be honest there are many other FPS games that aren't set in a world war environment. If your going to use FPS games as an example of games that are identical, then I gues you need to go play some BioShock, Metroid Prime, or F.E.A.R.

And even with the quantity of shooters that have the exact same environment, DW is still looked upon as repetitive because of ALL the other features in the game. The combat is weak compared to other hack and slash games.

You see Jim tries to defend the game being a mindless button masher by comparing it to games like: Super Mario because you just mash the jump button at the right time, or Contra because you use the shoot button all the time, or old school beat em ups like Streets of Rage.

The problem with that argument is that he didn't pick a game from the past 15 years to compare it to. That's because you can't without naming games that do what DW does, but infinitely better:
God Hand
Devil May Cry
Bayonetta
MadWorld
God of War
all better games and for good reason. They're all beat em up/hack and slash games but they are in no way as monotonous as Dynasty Warriors. The combat is more diverse, enemies actually have a chance, the games look nicer, the story in the games don't suck nearly as bad, and each series is unique in its own way.

Hell, even Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes (which is just Dynasty Warriors set in Japan) is more fun to play. With actual combo mechanics in the combat, a managable roster of characters that are actually unique to one another, and the fact that it doesn't take slogging through many hours of game filler to beat.

That's why people don't like DW. There are games that are just as "therapeutic" that do what DW does, much better. I just wish that DW was built with the same amount of respect that its spinoffs are. DW:Gundam was actually fun as hell, and so was Fist of The North Star: Ken's Rage.

CriticKitten:
...

Fair enough, you were using an implication, not an equivalence (DW is good -> DW is praised), so I guess I was wrong on that. Good one.

However I still disagree on that whatever it is "Devil Kings" does, DW does better. You never mentioned what exactly DW did better... apart from being "fresh and original". So, please do elaborate. After all your argument is, if I'm not mistaken: DK is a rip-off of DW (irrelevant in itself, since it tells me nothing about the quality of DW as a game nor does it lessen the quality of DK in any way). DW does everything better than DK, therefore DW is a better game.

Panayjon:
...

Man, I'm full of shit today. Gotta see if my logical circuits are still intact. SW was indeed published by KOEI. Gotta check my sources first.

Glad to hear that there are more quisitions to come.
On a side note:
Me and my brother used to play the crap out of the 3rd dynasty warriors both alone and coop. The only reason I never went on in the series was because our PS2 broke around the time of the next one, and we never got our ps2 fixed. I have to get the 7th one now, because watching that gameplay footage made me miss those good old days.
I will have to ask now, what is the difference between 7 and 7 Xtreme legends?

I love the dynasty warriors series. I own all the games since 4. Including Samurai Warriors and Gundam and Empire offshoots. I have at time in the past called it my favorite game. I love rampaging the battlefield and beating the shit out of everything. I'm looking forward to the upcoming Dynasty Warriors One Piece I've heard about.

On a side note... these games have caused me to buy some things I normally wouldn't have. Like the Three Kingdoms novel (and 3 other classic chinese novels) and many Gundam anime series... The games scratch the surface of these realms and caused me to want to learn more.

The Extreme Legends versions are like expansion packs with additional content and sometimes additional characters.

Oh no Jim is mad with power. But then mad with power is a bit more entertaining than mad without power.

Never really got into Dynasty Warriors myself but if they can keep cranking out games like they do then someone has to be buying them.

You like this game? That's cool. You think a bit of mindless violence is fun sometimes? Don't we all.

But trying to say "I like this, leave it alone" is pointless. And always will be. Some people are always going to mindlessly bash games, and you just have to accept that. People have different opinions. You cannot impose your feelings on someone else by telling them. Saying "don't hate the things I like" is just as stupid as saying "don't like this thing I hate". You are, in effect, as bad as the people who troll.

Stop this please Jim. That popularity you've earned is slipping away. Keep this up and you will be cancelled.

2xDouble:
Multiple game commentators commenting on the same games? the madness! the insanity! the sheer butthurtness of it all! bwahahaha!

But seriously...

You know what? I liked Dynasty Warriors. I liked the spinoff Samurai Warriors too. My problem is, the series suffers from "Madden-itis". Its new releases tend to offer very little, other than inconsequential technical upgrades and roster updates. Even Pokemon's essentially stagnant gameplay offers something new with every iteration, and I just don't get that from Koei. Double Dragon, Battletoads, Ninja Turtles, Contra... they all didn't vary much from the formula either, but at least offered new enemy types and challenging new boss fights in the sequels... something more to test the mettle than sheer zombie numbers and unforgiving timers.

If Dynasty Warriors 7 or that curious Dynasty Warriors Gundam thing changed up the formula or added gameplay modes that were actually different in some way, then I apologize, but I haven't seen anything in them or since to justify a new purchase. Nothing worth dropping $60 or more on, when I can get the same experience for free playing Dynasty Warriors 5 or Samurai Warriors 1 through again.

The majority of the innovation comes through the form of its Empire versions.

OT: As much as I loved this video, I have to say that playing on Chaos difficulty with a level one character is definitely not very button-mash friendly.

He always speaks to those we won against when he leans forward and looks into the camera. Kinda makes it hard to stand by his side. Can't help staying there, though :)

Huh...you kinda told me why Dynsaty Warrior is good but not really why its the Citizen kane of gaming

Great work commentators,you made Jim go off the damn deep end.
Also,I think Dynasty Warriors is a good game too,sometimes you do just want to beat shit up.

Okay, yeah, your show has improved. Or maybe I warmed up to you ever since the Square Enix episode. . . or maybe I missed EC in it's downtime, and you're kinda like EC Lite with sociopathic and narcissistic personality disorder for added giggles.

Jim, it's great to see you're sticking around! Great point about games in general really. Most games, even if they are shit, can be appreciated for what they are - some can even be compared to great literary works of art (sometimes).

So than, what are the trashy romance novels of gaming?

Edit: spelling

I love Dynasty Warriors, though I do not agree with your saying that super mario bros and R-type are also button mashers just because you use one button. That was inaccurate. I also wouldn't say the game is a "laugh riot" just because they have a couple joke characters and poor voice acting/writing.

1: This makes me wanna gleefully warm up some of my dusty DW games.
2: Citizen Kane is a poor choice of comparison. Maybe Independence Day or Starship Troopers; only with a fistful of androgynous/effeminate girly men tossed in.

THE CITIZEN KANE THING WAS NOT SERIOUS.

Now that's out the way, yeah I like it too, never really thought to defend it, I mean it is shallow and basic, with little real progression. And? The button mashing defence is an interesting one, I'll take it up and see if I can work it through properly, something about it doesn't sit well with me right now...

Anyway, yes I like DW. I make no lie of it, it is enjoyable to me.

DW7 still sucks balls though. High hopes for that game, parts of it work. Parts of it really, really don't.

NameIsRobertPaulson:

I'mANinja:
The thing that annoys me about DW is the crap load of games they make, with very little changed, it's the problem with games like Madden. I think cutting through throngs of enemies is a blast, and I do like DW games, especially DW: Gundam, but they release to damn many of them. Slow down the release schedule, and think of good features to add, and I will like DW even more.

Read above. The changes they made from 6 to 7 were huge.

Implementation of the Renbu System PROPERLY
Introuction of the actual winners of the war, the Jin, and all the characters that come with that.

A fun mode that isn't story mode, and a unique way to unlock new stuff.

But again, to non-fans, the changes don't appear.

What I mean is normally, for a while they're are no changes, of course, they will end up putting in good, new features, but, there are still points where sequels seem like the same game, I feel there are games in the middle that shouldn't exist, and some that feel like full sequels. You know what? Because of this video, I want to go buy the newest DW, and not the Gundam one...

I love Dynasty Warriors as well for the same reasons, and now am not ashamed of saying it (also, try "Sengoku Basara: Samurai Heroes", it's like Dynasty warriors, but with DevilMayCry humor)

Thank god, for Jim Sterling

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