Jimquisition: Steve Jobs and iOS -- Videogame Related

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Scrumpmonkey:

I don't buy apple products, i object to their business practices, their media choke-holding of negative press, their pricing and most of all their intolerable fanbase BUT i do recogise mobile OS's as the biggest sector of gaming growth.

do you own an ipod ?

Orcus The Ultimate:

Scrumpmonkey:

I don't buy apple products, i object to their business practices, their media choke-holding of negative press, their pricing and most of all their intolerable fanbase BUT i do recogise mobile OS's as the biggest sector of gaming growth.

do you own an ipod ?

I own an MP3 player, not an iPod. An iPod is just a type of mp3 player which has evolved in capability.

Sorry, but those two promotional clips of people playing iPod Touch games says everything about why I can't take those platforms seriously. Where are my buttons? I have to do everything by pressing against a screen with no tactile feedback or tilting the iPod around? No thanks. The worst DS games are the ones that try to be traditional gaming experiences but forego all use of buttons to try and do everything on the touch screen, leaving the game a sloppy mess (both DS Zelda titles come to mind). Also, those screens are small and my thumbs are big, so now that 1/3-1/2 of the screen is blocked, I don't have much left to see at all. I suppose the iPad would help solve this seeing as it's bigger, but that also kills the portability aspect and now it would instead be compared to home consoles which is even more of a laugh than comparing iPod Touches to PSP or 3DS.

Plus, the price. $250 was too much for people to spend to buy a 3DS which has a full backlog of great DS titles and many great games of its own coming soon. It had to drop to $170 to get people's attention. But I'm supposed to pay $200 for an iPod touch that doesn't have room for much else or $300 for one with a reasonable storage capacity just to play stuff like Angry Birds that are also available on browsers? Top it off with Apple's nearly yearly device upgrades that you eventually need to keep playing the latest games ($170 for a 3DS that will last you a good number of years, or $200 for an iPod touch that will be obsolete in a year or two tops while Apple asks you to shell out $300 minimum for the latest and greatest?), and all I see is a fad just waiting to implode on itself while Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony sit back and laugh at it. Mobile gaming pretty much killed facebook gaming (I'm sure people still do it, but when was the last time anyone heard about it) and sooner or later, something will come along and make everyone forget about mobile gaming.

If in 10 years or so, maybe 5, people are still lining up to buy the expensive as hell iPad 20 and the iPod Touch 50 or iPhone 4SJKQWHYCANTWEJUSTHAVEIPHONE5 to play the latest $5 apps, I'll happily admit I was wrong. I really can't see that happening though.

How can people stand using their fingers on touch screen phones? It drives me nuts to see fingerprints on my DS or PSP screens.

PLUS, as bigger game experiences start to decline on consoles because of focus on smaller platforms, it would allow the PC devs to get more creative and have more freedom

That's not an insult to consoles, just saying what could happen for the only platform I currently play on, so don't freak out.

I agree that Steve Jobs and Apple are important to the realm of gaming. Sure I feel they should just stick to mobile gaming but mobile gaming is an important part of gaming and if anything that gets released on a mobile platform is good enough, it turns up on a home console. Case in point Angry Birds and Plants Vs. Zombies, both originally mobile games and now hits on the home consoles as well as the iOS. Chances are we'll see Infinity Blade on XBLA in the near future too.

All video games are time wasters and sure you may hate Angry Birds but take it from me, a gamer with 21 years of experience... Angry Birds isn't an easy game. That game is worthy of NES famed difficulty, especially when going for 3 stars. I like mobile games because I can actually play them while I'm out and about. I'd never take my 3DS or PSP out and about because of swapping games on the move and those thing are expensive! At least a smartphone or an iPod has multiple functions and is easier to carry around.

It's a shame the world lost a genius like Jobs while millions of morons still live and trade racial and homophobic slurrs in online games.

If I'm not mistaken Steve Jobs also designed the first Break Out game when he was younger.

Oh I would give you my iPad 2 Jim, oh wait I don't have one...

As is very typical after watching Jimquisition, I want to say, "Yeah, but-"

Is IBM a "gaming company" of the likes of Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft as well because of all the gaming people have done on what used to be called "IBM PC compatibles"?

Yes, you can play a ton of games on your iPhone or iPad or iPod Touch. But they aren't Apple games. I honestly don't even know if Apple makes games of their own, at least beyond the kind of Solitaire and Mahjong tile games that typically come with a new computer. I do know they aren't responsible for Angry Birds (Roxio), or Cut The Rope (Chillingo) or Fruit Ninja (Half Brick). None of the games I've see people playing came from Apple itself; correct me if I'm wrong.

Likewise, even Sterling can't say with a straight face that the "virtual d-pad" solutions work well all, or even the majority, of the time. It's a "dancing bear" situation- it's not amazing that it dances well, just that it does so at all. While that remians the case, the consoles are going to continue to have a place that the i-Line just isn't going to intrude upon. We'll see how Sony's Xperia does in bridging the gap.

In short, all kudos to Apple for making some remarkable pieces of hardware, and for designing interfaces that people want to create games on, and finding ways of making those games readily available for people. But even while it isn't accurate to say that Apple has nothing to do with games, it isn't accurate to put it along side Nintendo, Sony, Microsoft, or even Sega, either: these companies make both hardware and software, and understand games on a level that I see little evidence Apple does.

Infinity Quest "packed" with content.

Yes I laughed, but I guess you can get off with that statement because very little people will actually play that game.

trollpwner:
Isn't this what yahtzee said in his iPhone game review about a year back? Just sayin'....

No! You'll prompt him to do a video about how Tap Tap Revenge is the Avatar of gaming.

I can appreciate that most people just play iOS games, and I can't say I blame them. But, for me, and nearly all "hardcore" gamers we like something beefier. I personally don't feel right playing a system unless I feel like I could bludgeon someone to death with the peripherals.

I didn't even know there was actual hate for the mobile games. I feel so out of the know. 0_o

This said, *all* I could think of while Jim was listing his (good) points was: "Dude....Those games look *addicting* to play. WHAT ARE THEY?!" <--Yep. I'm so simple: If it plays awesome, I'm not gonna be first in line to deny it that. lol

If the iphone wasnt updated nearly every week and had a non contract top up tarrif as I dont use my mobile much ild buy one myself to play all those fantastic CAVE iphone ports like Espgaluda 2 and Deathsmiles.

I'm in complete agreement with Jim. My iPod touch has gotten the folks addicted to Angry Birds, and they've just recently graduated to Doctor Mario: Online Rx. I'm not expecting them to whip out PS3 controllers and to duke it out on Crysis 2 anytime soon, but the fact that they at least got a foot in the door of the gaming scene is a major thing, in my perception.

Simply put, I wouldn't be able to see my mother cream my father on Level 30, with the pills set to Fast, if it weren't for Steve Jobs' almost accidental foray into gaming.

Oh, and don't forget this one simple truth: Halo started as a Mac demo. Apple did indeed once have its eyes set on making the iMac out to be some kind of gaming solution. It obviously didn't happen, but the very fact that we got *this* close to blasting the Covenant with a one-button mouse speaks volumes about Apple's rightfully-earned place in the industry.

Jim Sterling:
Snip

More than that, Steve Jobs was a major force on Atari back in the day, being the man who made the circuit board for the original Breakout.

I do have problems for the Iphone as a platform, but that is just because the Android I found to be a much better phone and has more games free. However, I don't deny that the Iphone is a major competatior and the days of consoles are now numbered.

It makes me laugh to see the same type of console fans who get up in arms if anyone says that consoles dumbing down gaming, being the same people who complain about mobiles dumbing down gaming, without a touch of irony.

MrDeckard:
Microsoft has the majority of PC gaming,

Explain this to me again. I don't remember the last time a brought a Microsoft game on the PC. Also Microsoft don't get royalties for PC games. All they have is the O/S and therefore a big lever in directing PC gaming, but that's about it....

Eh, much as it doesn't apply to me, I don't disagree on any particular point. iOS essentially brings flash games to a mobile device, just with a much less precise input method. Nothing wrong with that... but I'm not giving up my mouse, or paying extra money to play these things.

I guess mobile gaming and music devices have never really appealed to me, though. I game at home, I listen to music at home or in my car (and my car stereo has my MP3 collection onboard). When I'm out and about, I don't need or want games or music to come with me... because I'm busy.

Still, that's just me, and I'm a rare dinosaur of a case. Apple is gaming related, and in my opinion, they've done more for it than any of those others mentioned in recent years.
Not that much of worth has seen the light of day in recent years... at least in this dinosaur's opinion.

Holly I have forgot about "Bomb Jack" Bloody hell????
Am I really that old ,crap.
And Apple bla bla bla ,bla bla ,bla and so on.
Do I have Apple devices no?
Why not?
To expensive to me.
Entertaining show as ever Jim S..
Mobile games are here to stay, no matter the Platform they on so live whit it.

And did you get your IPAd 2?

A good episode and one that is very pertinent to gaming, as much as it could just be written off as a rant. Gaming on iOS (I'd include Android too) could be the way forward. I personally think that dedicated gaming handhelds are gradually going to be inched out of the marketplace. iOS games provide the ultimate in portability, which is surely what handheld gaming is all about. The idea of taking a game like Mass Effect or Uncharted with you on an uber-powerful handheld (the Vita, I know) is appealing, but in reality they aren't games suited for situations where you really want "mobile" gaming, like being stuck on a cramped train, waiting for a friend to show up, passing the time on a lunch break etc.

Purpose made handhelds are now in an awkward position. They must have big, impressive, games to showcase their abilities in order to justify their existence against iOS etc. At the same time though, I think these types of games will only highlight how inferior playing a title on a handheld is compared to the home-console counterpart. Just think about all the virtually direct PS2 to PSP ports, and how dismal they were compared to their bigger brothers. iOS games at least generally have no pretense of being anything other than quick drop-in, drop-out fun.

ph0b0s123:

MrDeckard:
Microsoft has the majority of PC gaming,

All they have is the O/S and therefore a big lever in directing PC gaming

This is what I meant. I could have been much more clear. Thanks.

All this talk of Steve Jobs and no Honorable mention to dennis ritchie.

This makes me a sad developer.

I didn't actually know there were people complaining about Steve Jobs not being game related. Maybe not AAA game related but it is game related to a degree. The only thing I can say against iPod games like this is that if the industry goes grow it may face proper problems with shovelware. As long as it stays fairly indie and big companies stay doing AAA stuff it will do fine but we don't really need companies doing too much like that on it yet.

iOS is coming into its own as a gaming platform and should definitely be considered a force to be reckoned with in the near future... and, to be honest, that really frightens me. I hate the idea of having to play games on a touch screen. It works really well for some control schemes, but I can't ever see myself playing Halo with one. Just really hoping that this doesn't spell the end for console gaming.

Sgt. Sykes:
snip

Seriously guys - HTC, Nokia, whatever, is it so hard to make a iOS/Android/Windows phone with a friggn' D-pad and at least two buttons? Seriously? We had such phones and accessories back in 2003 if not earlier, dammit.

iPhone is not the future of phones. Friggin KEYPAD is. Nor is it a future of mobile games. BRING BACK NOKIA NGAGE!

You mean like so?

image

My girlfriend has one and it's quite good, on android, plays some ps1 games. Only complaint would be low battery life.

cookyy2k:
You mean like so?

My girlfriend has one and it's quite good, on android, plays some ps1 games. Only complaint would be low battery life.

I know about this thing, just forgot to mention it. That's why I named HTC and Nokia specifically and not SE. Samsung is definitely not the one to innovate in this area (they only copycat Apple). It's funny that SE phones are made by HTC.

Still, I don't think this is the ideal form factor. It's big and thin, thus the ergonomics suffers and due to the huge display, the battery life is crap. Something like Ngage is the way to go IMHO. I don't know about other people, but I like my phones small and such that they can work for at least two days. That means no big display.

Not really a big fan of casual/ indie games, but to each their own I guess.

Just don't say everyone should get more gaming platforms, like the iOS.

Sgt. Sykes:

cookyy2k:
You mean like so?

My girlfriend has one and it's quite good, on android, plays some ps1 games. Only complaint would be low battery life.

I know about this thing, just forgot to mention it. That's why I named HTC and Nokia specifically and not SE. Samsung is definitely not the one to innovate in this area (they only copycat Apple). It's funny that SE phones are made by HTC.

Still, I don't think this is the ideal form factor. It's big and thin, thus the ergonomics suffers and due to the huge display, the battery life is crap. Something like Ngage is the way to go IMHO. I don't know about other people, but I like my phones small and such that they can work for at least two days. That means no big display.

I get what you're saying, I just didn't know if you knew about such a devise. I myself just have a small touch screen phone. They don't lend themselves to console style gaming, but they do to other styles of gaming. I think the way gaming took off came as a surprise to the manufacturers of these devises and we'll start to see phones with more and more features for gaming similar to the xperia play. This is still a new area after all. When gaming was young how many devises from now popular gaming companies failed outright, was quite a few.

Daystar Clarion:
...or any other game that essentially exists to kill time while on the bus or train...

And this is where my mind goes every time I hear someone trying to convince me that an iPod/Pad is a real gaming device. I've got a few really neat games on my HTC, but given the choice between my PSP/DSi or my phone, I'll got with the former everytime. If I'm on the loo or lying in bed and struggling to sleep, a few rounds of paper toss or tower defence is nice; but it's hardly something I'd go out of my way to play.

They're time wasters, little bite sized bits of entertainment inbetween my preferred activities of the day.

Azure-Supernova:

Daystar Clarion:
...or any other game that essentially exists to kill time while on the bus or train...

And this is where my mind goes every time I hear someone trying to convince me that an iPod/Pad is a real gaming device. I've got a few really neat games on my HTC, but given the choice between my PSP/DSi or my phone, I'll got with the former everytime. If I'm on the loo or lying in bed and struggling to sleep, a few rounds of paper toss or tower defence is nice; but it's hardly something I'd go out of my way to play.

They're time wasters, little bite sized bits of entertainment inbetween my preferred activities of the day.

Indeed. I certainly wouldn't pay for the privlege of playing what essentially boils down to flash games.

They're not all like that, of course, but there isn't really enough there for me to consider it a serious gaming format.

Scrumpmonkey:

Orcus The Ultimate:

Scrumpmonkey:

I don't buy apple products, i object to their business practices, their media choke-holding of negative press, their pricing and most of all their intolerable fanbase BUT i do recogise mobile OS's as the biggest sector of gaming growth.

do you own an ipod ?

I own an MP3 player, not an iPod. An iPod is just a type of mp3 player which has evolved in capability.

The temptation must be hard though...

I have literally not ever heard any say anything even similar to "iphone products arent related to games"...I wonder who it is that Jim talks to, that says that kind of thing and is always taking the piss out of Dynasty Warriors...

Exterminas:
This is the second time he used the "A classic game is like that, so this current game/future game, which is essentially like that, has to be good too"-Argument. The first time being with dysnasty Warrior.

And frankly, I consider this argument to be rubish. Dances with Wolves is a classical movie. Yet Avatar recieved Flogging for ripping of the story. Why was Avatar a succesful movie nontherless? Because it had innovation in other areas.

We can not judge the future/present by measuring it with the standards of the distant past. That's not how a medium evolves.

So does a game like Angry Birds not have innovation over an older game like Scorched Earth? Does Angry birds not for example have better graphics? Better physics? More tactile control scheme? More humour?

I think the point Jim's trying to make is that people often consider these games invalid because they compare them to more mainstream titles that cost 60 dollars. But if a style of game was valid as a "game" 20 years ago, why is it no longer valid as a game today?

I gotta admit that there were some impressive looking games on that video. Especially considering they could be played on an iPod/iPhone/iPad. While I don't see Apple getting into the console market, I'm certain their handheld devices will be seeing plenty of use among gamers, and non-gamers, for a long time to come.

wooty:
I've been watching this from the start and ONLY just realized that the background song is Jesters of the Moon!

I'm now off to beat myself over the head with my Princess Garnet model as penance

Is that the name of that song? I knew it was off FFIX (without referencing the credits) and I'm pretty sure I know what city it plays in. The one with the car tournament and the auction house, if memory serves. But I didn't know the name. Thanks for that.

TrevHead:
If the iphone wasnt updated nearly every week and had a non contract top up tarrif as I dont use my mobile much ild buy one myself to play all those fantastic CAVE iphone ports like Espgaluda 2 and Deathsmiles.

The iPhone is only updated about once a year, this last update was after 16 months (most thought that was too long). However if you don't want a contract, you could always get an iPod Touch, works just like an iPhone with out the phone part and it has no contract.

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