Jimquisition: Steve Jobs and iOS -- Videogame Related

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AJey:

brainslurper:

AJey:

Of course! Whenever someone does not agree, he/she is trolling. Grow a couple of hemispheres before commenting illogical comments!

I just didn't think someone could be so close minded on these forums. iOS and to a lesser extent android devices are most certainly a force to be reckoned with. Just because they don't require a large TV and a brick to enjoy, doesn't mean they aren't just as great as consoles. Then you think about hardware. Mobile devices WILL outclass consoles before this generation is over. Their technology is moving far faster then anything sony or microsoft is releasing. iPhones come out every year, this year the iPhone was 7 times as fast graphically then it's previous version. Compare this with an XBox on an 8 year console cycle, which repeatedly releases with outdated technology, and can only practically play games. The envelope is being constantly pushed? Consoles were NEVER anywhere near the hardware edge. PC gamers had XBox 360 quality hardware years before the XBox 360 was released. Don't say an entire platform's games are technically simple, because you obviously have no experience with game design OR the platform itself. Lastly, saying that games on multi-purpose handhelds won't change the games industry is probably the most retarded thing I have ever heard in my entire life. You need to crawl out of hole you seem to live in.

The first fundamental lesson you need to learn here is that claims have to be justified and backed-up!

When you say that iOS or android are a force to recon with, elaborate, what exactly is there to be reckoned with! Merely saying something wont make it true! Tell me, can iphone play such PS3 games like Resistance 3, Batman: Arkham City, Uncharted? Can iphone play xbox games like Halo, Gears of war 3, Call of Duty? Can iphone play PC games like Battlefield 3 or Skyrim? Its a simple no! So no matter how fast mobile technology is advancing, its still not close to a 8-year-old PS3 or Xbox! Granted, those two are old. But what happens when they release a new generation consoles? Dont forget that PCs are constantly getting better too. Thats only the technical side of the debate. By the way, dont mix in the versatility of a phone into this argument. We are only discussing the gaming potentials!

Try looking at the top 10 of iphone games, you will realize what kind of gaming is prevalent in the mobile society. You seem to forget that iphone is first and foremost a phome, then an information device and only then a gaming platform. In such a small device you will never have something that can rival PC's gaming capabilities.

Then theres a practicality argument. Iphone or Ipad are simply not practical. Iphone, for example, has a tiny screen. Not to mention the lack of buttons. I saw footage of GTA 3 on Ipad. Its horrible. How are you gonna compensate for a keyboard and mouse or a controller? Tried playing FPS on a phone? or maybe a RTS? The whole trick of the apple products are mobility, and thats not exactly game-changing for gaming.

You think hand-held industry will change gaming? JUSTIFY IT! So how, dont just regurgitate random BS! So far we learned that even with rapid advancements, iphone is nowhere near consoles or PC! Iphones cant play even several year old games either. We also learned that hand-helds are not practical in any game-advancing way, except mobility. So how the hell will they revolutionize gaming?!

Ugh. Interesting that you point out gears of war, especially after epic got the unreal engine to run on iOS devices.
http://www.epicgames.com/infinityblade/
The playstation vita is capable of running uncharted, and is on par graphically with the iPhone 4s. It is not a matter of the iPhone not being capable of running these games, it is simply a matter of developers moving them to iOS. Let me try to get this into your head. Sony and microsoft have sold about 100 million game consoles combined. Apple alone has sold 200 million iOS devices. That quantity of sales alone is enough to make a profound influence on the gaming industry. I thought I addressed this in my last comment. Between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s (1 year) graphics have gotten 7 times better. The new consoles won't do half as good on their 8 year cycles. Sony doesn't even have solid plans in for the next playstation, and the ps3 is getting destroyed by their own handheld. That leaves the games themselves. The app store has only been open for 4 years, half of the current console cycle. This puts consoles in a tough place. Because they aren't upgradeable, their ability to compete with alternatives depends on where they are in their cycles, while apple continues to release hardware far faster and in larger steps forward then console sellers can. It is more comfortable to play on a large display with more gaming-suited controls, but without graphical capability as an advantage over handhelds, consoles could be dropped out of the market entirely. Then we have to talk about games. While treyarch has shown with it's iOS port of Nazi Zombies that FPS gameplay CAN work on a touchscreen only device. Epic has shown what iPhones are capable of graphically. The reason their releases fall below the top 10 is because of smaller games, most of which are better suited for the touch control scheme. I can say that infinity blade is far more engaging then any console or PC based sword game I have played, and it's graphics are console quality. Also, RTSs work WAY better on touch devices. Especially when selecting and drawing the paths of units.

I spent a lot of money on building my computer. While I think there will always be a desktop gaming environment, I also think there will also be a handheld one too.

brainslurper:

AJey:

brainslurper:

I just didn't think someone could be so close minded on these forums. iOS and to a lesser extent android devices are most certainly a force to be reckoned with. Just because they don't require a large TV and a brick to enjoy, doesn't mean they aren't just as great as consoles. Then you think about hardware. Mobile devices WILL outclass consoles before this generation is over. Their technology is moving far faster then anything sony or microsoft is releasing. iPhones come out every year, this year the iPhone was 7 times as fast graphically then it's previous version. Compare this with an XBox on an 8 year console cycle, which repeatedly releases with outdated technology, and can only practically play games. The envelope is being constantly pushed? Consoles were NEVER anywhere near the hardware edge. PC gamers had XBox 360 quality hardware years before the XBox 360 was released. Don't say an entire platform's games are technically simple, because you obviously have no experience with game design OR the platform itself. Lastly, saying that games on multi-purpose handhelds won't change the games industry is probably the most retarded thing I have ever heard in my entire life. You need to crawl out of hole you seem to live in.

The first fundamental lesson you need to learn here is that claims have to be justified and backed-up!

When you say that iOS or android are a force to recon with, elaborate, what exactly is there to be reckoned with! Merely saying something wont make it true! Tell me, can iphone play such PS3 games like Resistance 3, Batman: Arkham City, Uncharted? Can iphone play xbox games like Halo, Gears of war 3, Call of Duty? Can iphone play PC games like Battlefield 3 or Skyrim? Its a simple no! So no matter how fast mobile technology is advancing, its still not close to a 8-year-old PS3 or Xbox! Granted, those two are old. But what happens when they release a new generation consoles? Dont forget that PCs are constantly getting better too. Thats only the technical side of the debate. By the way, dont mix in the versatility of a phone into this argument. We are only discussing the gaming potentials!

Try looking at the top 10 of iphone games, you will realize what kind of gaming is prevalent in the mobile society. You seem to forget that iphone is first and foremost a phome, then an information device and only then a gaming platform. In such a small device you will never have something that can rival PC's gaming capabilities.

Then theres a practicality argument. Iphone or Ipad are simply not practical. Iphone, for example, has a tiny screen. Not to mention the lack of buttons. I saw footage of GTA 3 on Ipad. Its horrible. How are you gonna compensate for a keyboard and mouse or a controller? Tried playing FPS on a phone? or maybe a RTS? The whole trick of the apple products are mobility, and thats not exactly game-changing for gaming.

You think hand-held industry will change gaming? JUSTIFY IT! So how, dont just regurgitate random BS! So far we learned that even with rapid advancements, iphone is nowhere near consoles or PC! Iphones cant play even several year old games either. We also learned that hand-helds are not practical in any game-advancing way, except mobility. So how the hell will they revolutionize gaming?!

Ugh. Interesting that you point out gears of war, especially after epic got the unreal engine to run on iOS devices.
http://www.epicgames.com/infinityblade/
The playstation vita is capable of running uncharted, and is on par graphically with the iPhone 4s. It is not a matter of the iPhone not being capable of running these games, it is simply a matter of developers moving them to iOS. Let me try to get this into your head. Sony and microsoft have sold about 100 million game consoles combined. Apple alone has sold 200 million iOS devices. That quantity of sales alone is enough to make a profound influence on the gaming industry. I thought I addressed this in my last comment. Between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s (1 year) graphics have gotten 7 times better. The new consoles won't do half as good on their 8 year cycles. Sony doesn't even have solid plans in for the next playstation, and the ps3 is getting destroyed by their own handheld. That leaves the games themselves. The app store has only been open for 4 years, half of the current console cycle. This puts consoles in a tough place. Because they aren't upgradeable, their ability to compete with alternatives depends on where they are in their cycles, while apple continues to release hardware far faster and in larger steps forward then console sellers can. It is more comfortable to play on a large display with more gaming-suited controls, but without graphical capability as an advantage over handhelds, consoles could be dropped out of the market entirely. Then we have to talk about games. While treyarch has shown with it's iOS port of Nazi Zombies that FPS gameplay CAN work on a touchscreen only device. Epic has shown what iPhones are capable of graphically. The reason their releases fall below the top 10 is because of smaller games, most of which are better suited for the touch control scheme. I can say that infinity blade is far more engaging then any console or PC based sword game I have played, and it's graphics are console quality. Also, RTSs work WAY better on touch devices. Especially when selecting and drawing the paths of units.

I spent a lot of money on building my computer. While I think there will always be a desktop gaming environment, I also think there will also be a handheld one too.

First of all, I am NOT talking about all handhelds. Im talking about Apple products. And dont try to paint Vita with the same color, Vita is exclusively gaming platform. Just like PS3 and Xbox are.

You throw around numbers not even realizing their meaning. iOS devices are multipurpose, of course they are gonna sell more. If PS3 could be a phone, it would sell more copies too. And you STILL cant name a single factor that iOS effects in gaming! You see, its not iOS that effected gaming, gaming effected iOS industry! Thats why apple even started making game-related content.

You talk about PS3 and Xbox, but why you exclude PC? Granted, the cycle of former two platforms is rather long, but iphone STILL can not run them. You can speculate all you want on how its gonna be in the future (maybe handhelds will dominate in the future, who knows), but iphones have not effected mainstream gaming at all. Its simply not a valid platform for AAA titles. Running Angry Birds on Iphone I would not exactly call revolutionary. Its simple as that. If you dont agree then just tell me how Iphones changed gaming in today's world! Altering a title or an engine to fit on a different OS is not a revolution either.

So lets talk about PCs. They are constantly evolving too. And they are a much more suitable gaming platform then iphones. Can you say with a straight face that people will prefer iphone gaming to PC gaming? I do agree with your point on handhelds and desktops coexisting. But would you see iphones becoming a dominant gaming platform? I simply can not imagine that (at least not the upcoming couple decades). I saw the Zombies gameplay on a touchscreen and its horrific. People will never pick that over a mouse and a keyboard (or controller).

Iphone gaming does and will have its niche. When older generation phones gained an ability to run games, that did not revolutionize gaming. Yes, there are games for iphone, yes people play them, but people who are considered gamers and who play serious titles wont switch from a PC or PS3 to an iphone. Even if hardware will become on par with a PC, there is always a question of inconvenience. Try telling a Star Craft player to try playing it on an iphone. You will be laughed at.

AJey:
Then theres a practicality argument. Iphone or Ipad are simply not practical. Iphone, for example, has a tiny screen. Not to mention the lack of buttons. I saw footage of GTA 3 on Ipad. Its horrible. How are you gonna compensate for a keyboard and mouse or a controller? Tried playing FPS on a phone? or maybe a RTS? The whole trick of the apple products are mobility, and thats not exactly game-changing for gaming.

You are thinking backwards. Just because one control scheme can't emulate another doesn't mean it's automatically bad. What matters is what new kinds of game you can design for that new control scheme and there is no shortage of iPhone games that would be completely unplayable with keyboard/mouse or a gamepad. That doesn't mean it will replace PC gaming, but neither is PC gaming in any shape or form automatically superior just because it is better at playing PC games. Games are almost always better played on the system they where designed for, then that to which they have been ported.

You think hand-held industry will change gaming? JUSTIFY IT!

You only think about the consumer side. Of course nobody is going to throw away their newest Batman game and play AngryBirds instead. However that's not what publishers care about, publishers care about making the maximum amount of money possible. And iPhone games offer a far greater potential return of investment then those expensive console and PC games. Zynga has been recently valued more then EA and all Zynga does is pretty primitive 2D games. Now Zynga isn't all iPhone games, but it shows that there is a ton of money to be made with simple casual titles and that will change the way gaming is done.

If you like it or not, the big publishers like to target the mainstream and iPhone gaming is a big part of mainstream gaming these days. That doesn't mean that gaming as we know it is going away completely, but I wouldn't be to surprised when a few types of games disappear from the mainstream gaming world due to being to niche. It's after all nothing new, it has already happened with flightsims and adventure games in the past, which onces where a big part of PC gaming, but are now rather small niche genres.

AJey:

brainslurper:

AJey:

The first fundamental lesson you need to learn here is that claims have to be justified and backed-up!

When you say that iOS or android are a force to recon with, elaborate, what exactly is there to be reckoned with! Merely saying something wont make it true! Tell me, can iphone play such PS3 games like Resistance 3, Batman: Arkham City, Uncharted? Can iphone play xbox games like Halo, Gears of war 3, Call of Duty? Can iphone play PC games like Battlefield 3 or Skyrim? Its a simple no! So no matter how fast mobile technology is advancing, its still not close to a 8-year-old PS3 or Xbox! Granted, those two are old. But what happens when they release a new generation consoles? Dont forget that PCs are constantly getting better too. Thats only the technical side of the debate. By the way, dont mix in the versatility of a phone into this argument. We are only discussing the gaming potentials!

Try looking at the top 10 of iphone games, you will realize what kind of gaming is prevalent in the mobile society. You seem to forget that iphone is first and foremost a phome, then an information device and only then a gaming platform. In such a small device you will never have something that can rival PC's gaming capabilities.

Then theres a practicality argument. Iphone or Ipad are simply not practical. Iphone, for example, has a tiny screen. Not to mention the lack of buttons. I saw footage of GTA 3 on Ipad. Its horrible. How are you gonna compensate for a keyboard and mouse or a controller? Tried playing FPS on a phone? or maybe a RTS? The whole trick of the apple products are mobility, and thats not exactly game-changing for gaming.

You think hand-held industry will change gaming? JUSTIFY IT! So how, dont just regurgitate random BS! So far we learned that even with rapid advancements, iphone is nowhere near consoles or PC! Iphones cant play even several year old games either. We also learned that hand-helds are not practical in any game-advancing way, except mobility. So how the hell will they revolutionize gaming?!

Ugh. Interesting that you point out gears of war, especially after epic got the unreal engine to run on iOS devices.
http://www.epicgames.com/infinityblade/
The playstation vita is capable of running uncharted, and is on par graphically with the iPhone 4s. It is not a matter of the iPhone not being capable of running these games, it is simply a matter of developers moving them to iOS. Let me try to get this into your head. Sony and microsoft have sold about 100 million game consoles combined. Apple alone has sold 200 million iOS devices. That quantity of sales alone is enough to make a profound influence on the gaming industry. I thought I addressed this in my last comment. Between the iPhone 4 and the iPhone 4s (1 year) graphics have gotten 7 times better. The new consoles won't do half as good on their 8 year cycles. Sony doesn't even have solid plans in for the next playstation, and the ps3 is getting destroyed by their own handheld. That leaves the games themselves. The app store has only been open for 4 years, half of the current console cycle. This puts consoles in a tough place. Because they aren't upgradeable, their ability to compete with alternatives depends on where they are in their cycles, while apple continues to release hardware far faster and in larger steps forward then console sellers can. It is more comfortable to play on a large display with more gaming-suited controls, but without graphical capability as an advantage over handhelds, consoles could be dropped out of the market entirely. Then we have to talk about games. While treyarch has shown with it's iOS port of Nazi Zombies that FPS gameplay CAN work on a touchscreen only device. Epic has shown what iPhones are capable of graphically. The reason their releases fall below the top 10 is because of smaller games, most of which are better suited for the touch control scheme. I can say that infinity blade is far more engaging then any console or PC based sword game I have played, and it's graphics are console quality. Also, RTSs work WAY better on touch devices. Especially when selecting and drawing the paths of units.

I spent a lot of money on building my computer. While I think there will always be a desktop gaming environment, I also think there will also be a handheld one too.

First of all, I am NOT talking about all handhelds. Im talking about Apple products. And dont try to paint Vita with the same color, Vita is exclusively gaming platform. Just like PS3 and Xbox are.

You throw around numbers not even realizing their meaning. iOS devices are multipurpose, of course they are gonna sell more. If PS3 could be a phone, it would sell more copies too. And you STILL cant name a single factor that iOS effects in gaming! You see, its not iOS that effected gaming, gaming effected iOS industry! Thats why apple even started making game-related content.

You talk about PS3 and Xbox, but why you exclude PC? Granted, the cycle of former two platforms is rather long, but iphone STILL can not run them. You can speculate all you want on how its gonna be in the future (maybe handhelds will dominate in the future, who knows), but iphones have not effected mainstream gaming at all. Its simply not a valid platform for AAA titles. Running Angry Birds on Iphone I would not exactly call revolutionary. Its simple as that. If you dont agree then just tell me how Iphones changed gaming in today's world! Altering a title or an engine to fit on a different OS is not a revolution either.

So lets talk about PCs. They are constantly evolving too. And they are a much more suitable gaming platform then iphones. Can you say with a straight face that people will prefer iphone gaming to PC gaming? I do agree with your point on handhelds and desktops coexisting. But would you see iphones becoming a dominant gaming platform? I simply can not imagine that (at least not the upcoming couple decades). I saw the Zombies gameplay on a touchscreen and its horrific. People will never pick that over a mouse and a keyboard (or controller).

Iphone gaming does and will have its niche. When older generation phones gained an ability to run games, that did not revolutionize gaming. Yes, there are games for iphone, yes people play them, but people who are considered gamers and who play serious titles wont switch from a PC or PS3 to an iphone. Even if hardware will become on par with a PC, there is always a question of inconvenience. Try telling a Star Craft player to try playing it on an iphone. You will be laughed at.

Did you even read my comment? You mention that iPhones cannot run console quality games when I give you specific examples of console engines and games that they are capable of running. I certainly prefer my PC over an iPhone. But I don't deny the iPhone's capability as a serious gaming platform like you do. As I said before, some games work better with a touch interface, and some don't. (Imagine trying to play infinity blade on a console). The reason I exclude PC because at this point we got one graphically challenging game this year, and it was released on origin. PC gaming as an industry is being utterly held back by consoles wimpy hardware. I see handhelds being the leading gaming platform. Not in the future, but now. I challenge you to find any iPhone user who hasn't downloaded a game, and with the current sales numbers, even if half of iPhone users didn't even touch a game, it would still be a more successful gaming platform then the PS3 and XBox 360 combined. Altering an engine to fit a different OS isn't a revolution. Building a phone that is capable of running an engine that was previously restricted to cinderblock sized consoles certainly is.

A very good point to bring up games of the 70's and 80's. Kids today don't know what video games were like back then. There was no such thing as a hardcore game because it wasn't the game that was hardcore but the way you played it. You could, for instance, drop a couple quarters into a Pac-Man machine a week and just play it casually. Or you could study the game's every nuance, learn the patterns, and work until you were able to get up to the ninth key on one quarter. This is what playing hardcore used to mean. Why doesn't it mean that anymore? Why has the term come to mean superficial things like aesthetics and genre instead of the amount of time one devotes toward developing skill? Have the games become shallow or just the gamers?

As a mac user thank you. I have a Macbook pro and I get a lot of shit at the gamers table because I have one. mind you my real gamer experiences that weren't angry birds, Minecraft, Sims 2, or world of goo, but games can be played on Apple products, they just need some work XD

I mean sure I can't play 1.8 of minecraft since the lighting system got too fancy for mac's graphic cards but 1.7 works fine and beautiful even.

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