Dating Sims Get Real

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Dating Sims Get Real

A dating sim that includes the chase.

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Tied up with an N64 controller cord? Hmmmmm, we can't let my girlfriend see this article. >.>

Arrgh, I like the fact that The Escapist is willing to give column inches to fringe gaming developments but all I see here is that some crank has made a dating sim, bordering on 'vore', to act as her personal soapbox. I'm struggling to see the worth in this; it's mutton dressed as delusional lamb.

Dating sims unrealistic? What are you talking about? In my town, large groups of improbably attractive, near identical girls with wacky hair colors sit around waiting for an overweight anime fan with low self esteem to fight over. It's a local thing, I guess...

What in the hell have I just read.

Oh, lesbian BDSM enthusiasts, and a game they made about lesbian BDSM.

Good, respectful, interesting, and intelligent commentary.

I love sim-date elements in my games, like being able to form friendships and romances in Dragon Age, because they tend to provide a connection to the world of the game beyond vague morality systems and allow players that really like good characterisation to delve further into the stories of their companions. I like it as a feature in a larger game, or even as a driving force in a game, but I don't think I could play a game that's purely sim-date.

I agree and disagree with this article. I agree that the conventional Japanese sim-date game is unrealistic, but I don't think this is a bad thing. I think they're the way they are because of the genre they're in, and I'd be surprised if many of them tried to convince the player otherwise. They're vague and generic because they're trying to be as widely appealing as possible. It'd be like arguing against a racing game because it has racing. (I know, simulation game, but hey, so is Sims, 'simulations' stopped realistic a long time ago.) Also to be fair, it's a lot easier to create a text based game than one with artwork/video/visuals attached to it.

I haven't played this person's sim-date game but it doesn't sound as grand as the article tries to make it out to be. It sounds like an interactive diary of a specific person, not a date simulator. I imagine it's easy just to paraphrase your own specific experience and run that through inform 7. That doesn't mean you've created a deep and meaningful experience for others, because (from that sounds of it) it's not really their experience, just a retelling of yours.

Sounds like elaborate fanfiction rather than an exploration of a relationship, but once again, I haven't played the game.

Interesting article, nice text-based game. Suprisingly liked it. Didn't thought Kinky-Sci-Fi-Lesbian-Powerplay would be intersting.

I have to disagree with the youtube clip. If a male pins a woman to the ground and starts trying to stab her with a kitchen knife is that rape? Yeah, didn't think so. I think we need to get over our obsession with that word.

I liked it.

Not in a 'oh hey this is a turn on!' way, but in a 'Heh, nice way of inverting a lot of dating sim roles to show a point of how bad they can get' way.

It's meta.

Harbinger_:
I have to disagree with the youtube clip. If a male pins a woman to the ground and starts trying to stab her with a kitchen knife is that rape? Yeah, didn't think so. I think we need to get over our obsession with that word.

No, but then again the clip shown with that context was meant to be a joke I believe. I certainly laughed a little at least at the scene. It also serves to support the whole "submissive weak" Aran that people have hated Other M for, seeing as someone who has tangled with beasts much more deadlier than that thing shouldn't of had much issue with it to begin with... especially when said someone has all of her powers at her disposal instead of losing them at the beginning.

I can't say much beyond that I concur. Dating sims can be so uniform and unrealistic. It's always nice to have some diversity, especially in such an appealing manner.

I get a particular enjoyment out of Dating Sims. Even the relationship building in Harvest Moon has always tickled my fancy... and I think it's because I didn't really date before getting married. My wife and I went on 2 dates. We spent all our time together, but we never really went out on dates.

That being said. I'd love to see some japanese dating sims translated, erotic or not, (Though, I'd love me some erotics). I'd probably even give this "Anne" person's D-Sim(tm) a try as well, if she branched out into other genres. Mark me down as "not my thing" concerning the one mentioned in the article, though.

On a side note, I never played Other M, so I watched the scene... and my wife asked me a simple question... this is how the conversation played out

Why doesn't she shoot it's head off?

To which I replied:

... Shut up! That's why! This was apparently a very bad game.

To which she screamed (At the screen, not me):

Fuck the god damn tail! Shoot its freaking head off!

I proceeded to laugh

An interesting perspective. And I'm not wholly surprised that the game in question has something to do with Anna. It totally fits with her other games, though nothing I've played has been quite that explicit.

As for dating games all tending towards harems, that seems true enough. Though this also seems to extend to wider aspects of Japanese culture, since there's also a lot of harem animes around too.
And as far as the games go it doesn't change if you find one that takes on the female role. The overall game design seems to remain very similar.

Still, taking on interpersonal relationships of any kind in computer game form seems to be a really difficult problem. (Not that it helps if the designers don't understand relationships that well.)

I don't just mean romantic or sexual relationships here. ANY relationship, be it friends, work colleagues or what have you tends to be incredibly shallow and limited in games. It's not an area they do well.

Is that a limitation in the technology? Or a lack of understanding among game designers? Or... Perhaps a little of both.

Wait just a second here.

In a community as desperately inbred as the one that surrounds videogames, I think it's important to confront potentially sheltered players with the fact that identity and sexuality are far broader than they may have assumed.

I'm sorry, but this is the internet, land of the most damn broad sexuality of all time.

Yes, a lot of dating games are awful at portraying realistic relationships, but that's because generally they're made as straight out porn.

Also, I find it quite strange that she even found people to argue with about Other M. Everyone hated that.

I've never had a girlfriend or been on a date. I honestly don't really care or have any patience and/or understanding of relationships. I can't wrap my head around why anyone in their right mind would be into BDSM as more than just a roleplaying thing in the bedroom, bleeding into their actual lives. I just don't get any of it.

The amount of craps I do not give about this game are so numerous they could fill a swimming pool. It's so not for me, that I probably shouldn't have bothered commenting.

Leigh Alexander:
When Anna takes to social media to confront the gaming community forces that most commonly get her back up, she's always joined by the distinctive, often all-caps voice of her partner Daphny, whose voice is visible in the text of the game she inspired.

Ah they sound like some true intellectuals there.

IndianaJonny:
Arrgh, I like the fact that The Escapist is willing to give column inches to fringe gaming developments but all I see here is that some crank has made a dating sim, bordering on 'vore', to act as her personal soapbox. I'm struggling to see the worth in this; it's mutton dressed as delusional lamb.

Kudo's for your avatar :3

Redirecting to the topic
...
...
Redirection succesfull

I'm not sure what to think of this and maybe it's for the best if I just -don't- think about it at all.
I mean, sure predatory instincts can play parts in such activities as depicted in the article and some people are indeed attracted by such things. Well let them. It ain't my thing so I'll just back away slowly and make no sudden moves to prevent my arms from beeing bitten off.

Well this was certainly an interesting read. I was expecting a happier ending than that, one that did not involve amputations of any sort. But it was interesting, and certainly well written. I actually liked Anni's personality, the madness was rather enticing in some ways. But I wouldn't want to be in that sort of position. Still, for what it's worth, it certainly is an original take on a dating sim, even if there wasn't much of a date in it.

Encyclopedia Fuckme And The Case of the Vanishing Entrée

Haha, oh my goodness, that was really something. I'm not sure I as the player really had enough information to intuit the solution to that situation, and I don't mind at all. (Or perhaps there's more than the one ending, but I'll leave that to other people. The one I got was, umm, sufficient.)

But if that's what happens when Dating Sims Get Real, I gotta say, I'm glad I'm off the market.

I'm always confused by the term "dating sim" applied to Visual Novels, or text-based CYOA games like this one here.

To me, dating sim always implied that the game actually has simulation elements, like in The Sims, with all those stats, and scoring systems, or constantly branching dialogue trees like in Bioware's stuff.

But these things that people actually CALL the "dating sim" genre, are some of the LEAST interactive pieces of interactive fiction, so much, that I wouldn't even call them video games.

It gets especially ridiculous with VNs like ef, Fate/Stay Night, or Clannad, that read like long-ass novels, with one interactive option per hour where choosing the wrong one means game over, and choosing the right one means that you are allowed to read the rest of the story. What an elaborate "simulation".

For the record, I love the Visual Novel medium, and even this CYOA thing here is... interesting, assuming that you are into it's themes, I just don't like how this name gives the entirely wrong impresion about them.

CrystalShadow:

As for dating games all tending towards harems, that seems true enough. Though this also seems to extend to wider aspects of Japanese culture, since there's also a lot of harem animes around too.

Actually, games are significantly less harem-ish than anime. After all, in games, you normally START by picking a route, and then you are locked into the story of that girl.

Harem anime are mostly adaptations from the Light Novel genre (short book series), or manga, where the original linear story is intentionally written with multiple love interests at the same time. Or when they are based on games, they are done by mixing all the originally separate plotlines, to create a new one where the girls appear in the same plot.

It is really, really hard to find someone on the internet who can talk intelligently about sexual topics, or at least approach them with an open and inquisitive mind. I enjoyed the read, though I probably wont play the game.

This one "game", though, is ridiculous. I can't seriously believe the author was presenting this as an example of anything. If you take 3 minutes (it's all it takes to get two endings. I don't know if there are any more of them, but I doubt it) to play it, you will realize that this is really a bad piece of fiction, one without any aim, no plot whatsoever, no gameplay and not even a good "role-playing-sex-related-thing". And it has this in it, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata

While one might try to attach some symbolism to it, the way the whole "story" (I can't find a better term) starts begins and ends feels cheesy and quite frankly, executed poorly.
I mean, it's depressing to even recognize its existance. What's really bad, is that there is a game on the same site (maybe the same author, too?) that depicts better a dominant/submissive relationship through the gameplay, with only an handful of words: Mighty Jill Off. this one isn't as explicit, given the nature of the game (a platform), but surely is a nice idea well executed, while Encyclopedia Fuck Me barely qualifies as a sexual fantasy. It feels like a novel gone bad, with some interaction tacked on at the end.

mdqp:
This one "game", though, is ridiculous. I can't seriously believe the author was presenting this as an example of anything. If you take 3 minutes (it's all it takes to get two endings. I don't know if there are any more of them, but I doubt it) to play it, you will realize that this is really a bad piece of fiction, one without any aim, no plot whatsoever, no gameplay and not even a good "role-playing-sex-related-thing". And it has this in it, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata

While one might try to attach some symbolism to it, the way the whole "story" (I can't find a better term) starts begins and ends feels cheesy and quite frankly, executed poorly.
I mean, it's depressing to even recognize its existance. What's really bad, is that there is a game on the same site (maybe the same author, too?) that depicts better a dominant/submissive relationship through the gameplay, with only an handful of words: Mighty Jill Off. this one isn't as explicit, given the nature of the game (a platform), but surely is a nice idea well executed, while Encyclopedia Fuck Me barely qualifies as a sexual fantasy. It feels like a novel gone bad, with some interaction tacked on at the end.

I felt quite the same, as I was reading along it's story lines my eyes kept rolling in horror and in utter disgust, no, not at what was happening or the sexual acts there in, hell no, kinky stuff is great, but this was nothing but a poorly written, self-serving play for attention in a genre that is as wide spanning and immeasurable as the internet itself, this writer, if you can call her that, has done nothing for the genre and then throws a hissy fit in game form, putting herself as the all-powerful-goddess antagonist talking a good game and never delivering, this isn't meta, this isn't even indie, this is just a pride project that got too much coverage.

What the hell did I just read. That game is just what?

Psychotic lesbians stabbing each other to death and fucking? What?

Dating sim how? It sounded more like I was reading the Squad Broken fan fiction.

That's not a game, it's just a pick-your own path lesbian slasher short story. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But don't call it a game, when it's just a bunch of text with a few predictable multiple choice options.

I don't know what most people call dating sims. But I call them a game that simulates building a relationship with another character, hence the words "dating simulator" They don't have to be eroge, but they shouldn't be nothing but sex. By the end of it if it's a good game I should have strong feelings towards my chosen mate, actually care about them a bit more then an unnamed NPC that's sole purpose in life is to be a human lampshade.

I've played visual novels, build your own girl eroges and mainstream RPGs that fit this description.

This game is not a dating sim. All it is is a piece of smut that looks like it was written by a juvenile that's trying way to hard to be edgy. They are more dating sim elements to the erotic text game Corruption of Champions, which has be specifically designed to involve the kinkiest and most varied sex that the human mind can possibly conceive.

This isn't a dating sim. Having grown a pair of balls large enough to click the link, they immediately retreated into my body upon clicking past the first couple pages. If this "game" is aiming to tell the truth about female sexuality, then it seems that females think about sex about as much as a man does with incredibly vulgar words to boot.

2nd "page" of the game: "The point of a little wet tongue traces her lip. God. Your knees wobble like someone held a magnet to a TV set. 'Why don't you escort that wine to the kitchen, little lady,' she says with a slap on your ass that makes your pussy yelp."

Options for the next page:
1.) "Where do you want me? On my knees? On the chair? In your bed? Bent over the table? Under your feet?"
2.) "WAIT A SECOND. My c*** may have this condition called HOT but my belly has this condition called HUNGRY, and it's terminal."

This is not a dating sim. It is a BDSM sim written from the perspective of a submissive woman, i.e. this is not a game which can even remotely apply to the sexual desires of every single woman.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what it is that this person wants to do. If we take her claim at face value that she's "trying to reinvent the idea of a digital game about sex and dating as something hot and fun and written by someone who is happy with her sexual identity and lifestyle," then in a way I suppose she's succeeded, but the audience of people who will enjoy fantasies about domination, violence, extreme sexuality seems absurdly limited or, possibly more frightening, is a facet of humanity that I'm not completely comfortable acknowledging. Point is that I don't believe this woman can claim that this dating sim is "more realistic" than other games. It's just as absurd, just as poorly written, and portrays the protagonist's sexuality in such stark, violent, excessive, and submissive terms that it is difficult to believe the text was based on anyone who is real.

AquaAscension:

This is not a dating sim. It is a BDSM sim written from the perspective of a submissive woman, i.e. this is not a game which can even remotely apply to the sexual desires of every single woman.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around what it is that this person wants to do. If we take her claim at face value that she's "trying to reinvent the idea of a digital game about sex and dating as something hot and fun and written by someone who is happy with her sexual identity and lifestyle," then in a way I suppose she's succeeded.

The funny thing is, that no, she didn't even do that. vndb.org lists 74 eroges with BDSM themes, and 364 with lesbian sex, not to mention every other fetish, sexual theme, gender combination, that you can imagine, from guro to bestiality, and from pregger incest to adult male/female missionary position.

It's been done. All of it. It's just plain arrogance to think that the writer's vague stereotypical assumptions about how all other eroge are just generic harem fantasies are accurate.

It's like as if an old man, vaguely aware that video games exists, would see a kid playing with CoD for 30 seconds, and so he would decide to reinvent gaming, and make something that isn't only about senselessly murdering everyone to gain points and reach a high score. ("Because that's what they are about, right?"). Then he would proceed to "invent" a crappy RPG.

Alterego-X:

CrystalShadow:

As for dating games all tending towards harems, that seems true enough. Though this also seems to extend to wider aspects of Japanese culture, since there's also a lot of harem animes around too.

Actually, games are significantly less harem-ish than anime. After all, in games, you normally START by picking a route, and then you are locked into the story of that girl.

Harem anime are mostly adaptations from the Light Novel genre (short book series), or manga, where the original linear story is intentionally written with multiple love interests at the same time. Or when they are based on games, they are done by mixing all the originally separate plotlines, to create a new one where the girls appear in the same plot.

I don't know what you've played, but that doesn't seem consistent with the handful of dating sims I've tried.

You are literally thrown into a situation where you meet a dozen or so potential partners, then interact with all of them at the same time.

Which you end up with tends to depend on what choices you make when you interact with that specific person.

Which... Is otherwise pretty much EXACTLY like harem animes and manga, if you make a basic allowance for player choice.

Then again, maybe what you've been playing is quite a bit different from what I have. Which wouldn't be difficult, because I haven't played many games of this nature, and there are an incredibly huge number of them.

I don't see this as inventive nor bold at all. It is the same as the dating sims she describes. Only it is from her personal sexual fantasy perspective. She sounds like somebody who is insecure about herself and has to loudly push her perspective to gain acceptance. Like that loud obnoxious kid in the back of the classroom who won't shut up because he needs attention. This whole thing just strikes me as the a big "Oh look at me! Look how edgy and cool I am. I can be shocking and say smart things." It takes little skill to be shocking and her "game" reflects that. Her "game" doesn't have any more a realistic reflection to relationships than the other dating sims. Her relationship game doesn't a reflect healthy relationship or an approach to it. It is just as sexually focused as the male centric games which is no way to build a stable lasting relationship.

It just reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxzCupLAsfo

-|-:
-snip

I laughed so hard at that. Right on the spot.

Also this statement here is really disturbing. Sounds like she has a real sick mind.
"I like to externalize my desires and fantasies in my games"
If this game reflects her fantasies then she has some serious issues. They put people in mental wards for fantasizing about murdering people. These are the kinds of people that cops keep an eye on. Because eventually fantasizing isn't enough.

DarkSpectre:

Also this statement here is really disturbing. Sounds like she has a real sick mind.
"I like to externalize my desires and fantasies in my games"
If this game reflects her fantasies then she has some serious issues. They put people in mental wards for fantasizing about murdering people. These are the kinds of people that cops keep an eye on. Because eventually fantasizing isn't enough.

Nobody really thinks like that. She just so desperately wants attention and thinks this will shock people into giving her it. Maybe she's right and she'll get it, but it's all far too pathetically try hard to be (as you put it) cool or edgy.

It is true the vast majority of people don't think like this and would piss themselves if faced with actually life threatening situations, but that leaves us with either regarding her as a pretentious wanker or a severally sick person. I figure she is just trying to get attention, but still you shouldn't say things you don't mean.

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