One Size Does Not Fit All

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Dastardly:

Susan Arendt:

Dastardly:

Sometimes art needs to stop imitating life, no? Unfortunately, art-for-profit doesn't lend itself to making changes. Society has stereotypical views and expectations, and merchandise is meant to capitalize on that rather than challenge it.

It's going to take an artistic body with more integrity than Disney to take any risks, unfortunately. When we finally have artists who create female heroes with the same variety of body shapes and sizes as they do male heroes (and not always have the "ugly" ones be villains) we might start getting somewhere. When we have female heroes who doesn't have to be unattractive in order to not be sexualized, we'll have come even further.

Universal Studios, not Disney.

Right, I got that -- but Disney owns Marvel at this point, so wouldn't any changes (particularly with merchandise) need to come from them? I lost a lot of faith in the future of Marvel after that acquisition, so maybe I'm just putting too much blame on Disney.

Oh, I see what you mean. Hmmm...that's a really good question. Disney is really good about creating stuff for girls, though it's more "appropriate," if you know what I mean.

Satsuki666:

BanthaFodder:
I dunno, the one near me sells graphic/nerdy tees (ie. Batman, Adventure Time, etc) for upwards of $20, when they have the same exact shirts in other stores like Old Navy or Walmart for like $10.

but of course, places like Old Navy and Walmart are for all the happy-go-lucky conformists :D

That doesnt really surprise me that they sell a lot of the same stuff as walmart and old navy. Most of their nerdy tees are really shit quality that fall apart after a year. Also I thought it was the conformists that go to hot topic, the elderly and cheap that go to walmart, and the wana be preppies who go to old navy.

Im really not sure if I should be talking though since I end up buying most of my clothes from a tattoo shop.


no, see it goes:
Regulars at Hot Topic:
"lol, Batman shirt, I such a nerd"
"look, a messenger bag with a raven on it! and it's gender-neutral! just like me! this'll be perfect to carry my poems that express the hardships of being a middle-class white kid in the American suburbs and the evils of a Capitalistic society. and it's only $40? what a steal!"
"look at all those Justin Bieber wannabes, marching like zombies into Hollister..."
"SQUEEEEEE!!!! THAT SHIRT HAS A DINOSAUR ON IT!!! DINOSAURS ARE FOR THE WIN! this'll go great with those raccoon tails I just put in my hair! RAWR!!11"

Regulars at Walmart:
"say what you want, but the prices are pretty damn good..."
"FROZEN TACOS? AW CHRAHST, THEY'VE STARTED TAKIN' OVER THE FOODS INDUSTRY."
"good thing they have these scooters, or I'd have to start exercising! OOH, LITTLE DEBBIES."
"goddamn young people, with their video games, and rap music, and reliable news sources, and..."

Regulars at Old Navy:
"huh, khaki pants. I enjoy wearing those. and these are quite reasonably priced."
"neat, you can get 5 graphic tees for $15 while this sale is going on."
"this jacket is pretty cheap and comfortable. it's not a brand name or anything, but who cares? it's cheaper than the stuff at Hollister or Hot Topic..."
"Jesus Christ those dummies are fucking scary..."

honestly though, whoever invented Hot Topic is an evil genius. I like to think that the thought process behind Hot Topic went a little something like this:
"teenagers and adults who like to pretend like they're teenagers have always wanted to stick it to "the man" and be "different" and "nonconformist". so let's provide a store based all around that, but we charge whatever we want. see that $5 tote bag? slap a picture of GIR or Jack Skellington on it along with a sticker that says "made from recycled materials". that $5 tote bag just became a $30 tote bag."

Well i still occationally see girls enter gaming stores and had the staff assume they were shopping for their bf or just hit on them.
Heck i remember one time at gamesworkshop i was recruited to help a friend of mine kick the ass of anyone who gave her grief just cause she was both a girl and a warhammer player.
Heck we got a prize from the shop for that ^^

"...by accepting for a moment that a woman has more to be proud of than the guy who chooses to be seen with her?"

Umm, does she mean?

1. That the guy shes seen with isnt the only thing she has to be proud of.

Or

2. The guy she is seeing has less to be proud of then her.

Sorry, but Im confused. Think my brain is melting from racking up workhours like my house mortgage was due for forclosure...

/Rel

Reliq:
"...by accepting for a moment that a woman has more to be proud of than the guy who chooses to be seen with her?"

Umm, does she mean?

1. That the guy shes seen with isnt the only thing she has to be proud of.

Or

2. The guy she is seeing has less to be proud of then her.

Sorry, but Im confused. Think my brain is melting from racking up workhours like my house mortgage was due for forclosure...

/Rel

Oh, ha! That she should be proud of more than just her boyfriend, is what I meant. It took me a while to see how you were reading it, but I got there eventually.

Susan Arendt:
Oh, I see what you mean. Hmmm...that's a really good question. Disney is really good about creating stuff for girls, though it's more "appropriate," if you know what I mean.

Hehe, you mean like a show about a girl who is only well-loved when she puts on makeup and a wig? Or all the movies about all the girls whose only motivation for going on character-building adventures is the love of a man? Or all the business practices that teach talented young girls to crave attention and trade on their looks before releasing them into adulthood without any support network?

(I'm done, I'm done... I just really do not like Disney, particularly its treatment of young women.)

As a sad fact, though, comic books may be one of the hardest places to insert progressive views on women. For decades, they've catered to the power fantasies of young nerds... and a large part of that has been the representation of women as "prize to be won" (even geek Peter Parker can get the hot chick!) or "life support for boobs," rather than "individual with an identity."

And I'm afraid as long as those guys remain a profitable market, there's little reason for change. We can, however, hope. And yell, kick, and scream.

Great article and I feel your pain, Susan.
I was on a geeky website trying to find female shirts. I think there was about 15 pages of ones for men and about 3/4 pages for women. Some of them are just vulgar and the sort of 'Hai boiz im a total nerd! I love batman cos marvel is my fave!!' shirts.
I've resorted to wearing boys shirts because they are so much cooler. I don't see why they can't do the same shirt on both male and female sizes?

it makes me feel uncomfortable wearing guys clothes, they're too big and make me look twice as fat. Plus the fact everyone seems to think I'm a raging lesbian...

Susan Arendt:

Reliq:
"...by accepting for a moment that a woman has more to be proud of than the guy who chooses to be seen with her?"

Umm, does she mean?

1. That the guy shes seen with isnt the only thing she has to be proud of.

Or

2. The guy she is seeing has less to be proud of then her.

Sorry, but Im confused. Think my brain is melting from racking up workhours like my house mortgage was due for forclosure...

/Rel

Oh, ha! That she should be proud of more than just her boyfriend, is what I meant. It took me a while to see how you were reading it, but I got there eventually.

Well, English not being my native language and the overworked braincells I mentioned sort of got to me. Not trying to nitpick or anything :)

Btw thanks for a lot of interesting posts/articles/reviews, especially liked the panel on female game characters. Currently doing a hobby/idie/oneman game with a female lead and trying my damnedest(is that even a word?) to do a female lead justice. If I ever get it done that is :P

Dastardly:

Susan Arendt:
Oh, I see what you mean. Hmmm...that's a really good question. Disney is really good about creating stuff for girls, though it's more "appropriate," if you know what I mean.

Hehe, you mean like a show about a girl who is only well-loved when she puts on makeup and a wig? Or all the movies about all the girls whose only motivation for going on character-building adventures is the love of a man? Or all the business practices that teach talented young girls to crave attention and trade on their looks before releasing them into adulthood without any support network?

(I'm done, I'm done... I just really do not like Disney, particularly its treatment of young women.)

As a sad fact, though, comic books may be one of the hardest places to insert progressive views on women. For decades, they've catered to the power fantasies of young nerds... and a large part of that has been the representation of women as "prize to be won" (even geek Peter Parker can get the hot chick!) or "life support for boobs," rather than "individual with an identity."

And I'm afraid as long as those guys remain a profitable market, there's little reason for change. We can, however, hope. And yell, kick, and scream.

Buy that's what's extra frustrating. Put a picture of Rogue on a shirt, done. Or Storm or Jubilee or Phoenix, or whoever. It doesn't have to be anything all that outlandish, just put a girl on the girl shirt, leave off the stupid sayings and call it a day. How freakin' hard is that?

While they're making geeky women's t-shirts, I'd also appreciate us men getting something. You know, like smart clothes that have some colour. Ooh, I can have those shoes in black or brown? Blue, black and grey suits?! Good gracious, I'm spoilt for choice.

That reminded me of this.

image

So true, though. Is it any surprise I was always shopping for clothes in the boys' section ever since I was a little girl? They got all the cool clothes, or all the clothes that related to things I liked, like Transformers and superheroes.

At every single fancy dress party I went to back in my all girls elementary school, there would always be twenty-nine fairy princesses, and me as Batman.

Zachary Amaranth:

F'Angus:
That is ridiculous. They should AT LEAST be providing for girls the same designs as us guys get. What they're writing on the shirts just seems stupid, I personally wouldn't want to walk around with a girl with those one her shirt.

Plus, what if guys want a "my boyfriend is a superhero" shirt?

This too. God forbid acknowledging gay people exist! D:

Susan Arendt:
Buy that's what's extra frustrating. Put a picture of Rogue on a shirt, done. Or Storm or Jubilee or Phoenix, or whoever. It doesn't have to be anything all that outlandish, just put a girl on the girl shirt, leave off the stupid sayings and call it a day. How freakin' hard is that?

Creating a shirt isn't hard.

But, getting into the mindset that people that aren't heteronormative males buy things too, and aren't totally satisfied with being lumped into embarassing stereotypes? That's going well past the singularity.

Of course, I know I don't need to tell you that, but you did ask

Susan Arendt:
Buy that's what's extra frustrating. Put a picture of Rogue on a shirt, done. Or Storm or Jubilee or Phoenix, or whoever. It doesn't have to be anything all that outlandish, just put a girl on the girl shirt, leave off the stupid sayings and call it a day. How freakin' hard is that?

Oh, agreed. Somewhere there is some magic formula that tells these people what will make a profit of $X, and anything that does not satisfy this magic formula is immediately dismissed.

Another problem: for some unknown reason, they can only get Rogue or Storm to pose in ways that accentuate their breasts and/or hips...

Susan Arendt:
Yes, he is, and yes, he's a superhero. :)

But superheroes never knowingly inflict pain and suffering on the world. And well... Gamedogs. *flee*
<.<

Don't worry, anti-heroes are way cooler. I mean who don't love Jackie Estacado?

OT: I know its more about the principle of the thing but the solution is kinda obvious. Buy cheapo shirt, download picture, take into screen printers, pay far less than you would for official.

Cheshire the Cat:

Susan Arendt:
Yes, he is, and yes, he's a superhero. :)

But superheroes never knowingly inflict pain and suffering on the world. And well... Gamedogs. *flee*
<.<

Way to be a jerk, dude. You not only managed to insult my husband, but me, too, as I both helped write an episode and did voicework on Gamedogs.

Susan Arendt:
I've dedicated two drawers in my dresser to my love of t-shirts, and still had to annex a portion of my closet to contain the overflow.

A woman after my own heart.:) I gave up on using drawers after #2 was filled and they now (or would if I wasn't mid-move) all sit in a foot-tall pile on top of a box in my closet. Makes cycling them easier, I just grab from the bottom of the pile. Not so good for wrinkles, though. But great for my biceps! (Lifting that many shirts to get to the bottom of the pile takes a surprising amount of effort.)


SirBryghtside:
How did I never know this before?!

*adds to list of stuff I know*

Was quite a surprise to those of us who listen to the podcast (around 51:00), judging by the comments, but in retrospect it shouldn't have been. They know more about each other's families and pets than coworkers generally do.


Torrasque:
I know! I was in Vegas, one of the best places to get shirts and stuff, and when I was looking around at all the awesome shirts in the Hot Topic (the only place I could find anything interesting), I found some MLP shirts! Except they were:
Pinkie Pie in a girl's size shouting "LETS PARTY!" which would have been fine minus the whole girl thing

Ain't it the truth. I get killed on shipping regularly to get geeky shirts, including my Twilight Sparkle cutie mark shirt. The MLP stuff in stores is all made for someone a fifth my age and a gender I'm not. Same reason Celestia's pink, really.:(

Susan Arendt:

Cheshire the Cat:

Susan Arendt:
Yes, he is, and yes, he's a superhero. :)

But superheroes never knowingly inflict pain and suffering on the world. And well... Gamedogs. *flee*
<.<

Way to be a jerk, dude. You not only managed to insult my husband, but me, too, as I both helped write an episode and did voicework on Gamedogs.

Guess a sense of humour aint either if your superpowers huh... But then we could already tell. <.<

But since its clear you cant take a joke I may as well say it. Everyone knows gamedogs was an abomination. You would do yourself far more credit if you looked back on it and could admit it was not your best work instead of getting butthurt when someone jokingly reminds you of it.
Its the type of thing people are taught in kindergarden. Owning your mistakes and all...

But do whatever you want.

Cheshire the Cat:

Susan Arendt:

Cheshire the Cat:

But superheroes never knowingly inflict pain and suffering on the world. And well... Gamedogs. *flee*
<.<

Way to be a jerk, dude. You not only managed to insult my husband, but me, too, as I both helped write an episode and did voicework on Gamedogs.

Guess a sense of humour aint either if your superpowers huh... But then we could already tell. <.<

But since its clear you cant take a joke I may as well say it. Everyone knows gamedogs was an abomination. You would do yourself far more credit if you looked back on it and could admit it was not your best work instead of getting butthurt when someone jokingly reminds you of it.
Its the type of thing people are taught in kindergarden. Owning your mistakes and all...

But do whatever you want.

Nope, it's not the best thing I've ever done. I wanted to try writing a script, and I got the chance to do that, with not very much success. But that doesn't make it any less jerky of you to say "this thing you did really sucked, HAR HAR!" I've done a lot of creative work in my life. Some of it's really good, and some isn't. That's how doing creative work goes, and I'm my own worst critic. But it's at best impolite to say "wow, you really blew it with that one, ain't I funny???"

I can't say I've ever thought about it, but that really, really sucks.
Really.
It's crass and shortsighted on the part management. Because, you know, girls have money too.

You think you've got problems...I can't get a Harley Quinn suit to fit me anywhere!

I'd be fascinated to learn how much MLP:FIM is produced for boys though - because I think there's a good percentage that would buy it.

badgersprite:
That reminded me of this.

image

Yeah, problem with that is that I know a number of girls who specifically look for the sexy costumes - including some that...potentially should think about wearing clothes that fit their figure better...phew.

You know what I mean. Curves are better when they're smooth rather than encapsulated. Equally with men.

The_root_of_all_evil:
You think you've got problems...I can't get a Harley Quinn suit to fit me anywhere!

I'd be fascinated to learn how much MLP:FIM is produced for boys though - because I think there's a good percentage that would buy it.

Do you mean shirts and stuff?
At risk of sounding like a spambot: WeLoveFine.com does awesome prints in both men's and women's cuts.
Mostly user created, I think, but pretty cool nonetheless

Susan Arendt:
One Size Does Not Fit All

Women read comics too, you jerks.

Read Full Article

So true, so very, very true. I have such trouble finding fandom T-shirts. I own a stupid number of men's shirts because I really wanted what was on them, but there was no women's size.

Great article, by the way. ^^

Chrono212:

At risk of sounding like a spambot: WeLoveFine.com does awesome prints in both men's and women's cuts.
Mostly user created, I think, but pretty cool nonetheless

But is there going to be a "My girlfriend loves Pinkypie" t-shirt? Doubtful.
Is there going to be a "I love Pinkypie" t-shirt? Equally doubtful.

I think we've just hit the Resident Evil racism problem again...it's not that the producers are trying to be offensive, it's just they're ignorant of the consumers.

And in this day and age, with this much data available, I'm amazed at how they're getting it so wrong.

(Honest to god, I tried to get a Harley Quin T-Shirt at the Batman Live, and was roughly told that they didn't do them in sizes bigger than Small)

The_root_of_all_evil:

Chrono212:

At risk of sounding like a spambot: WeLoveFine.com does awesome prints in both men's and women's cuts.
Mostly user created, I think, but pretty cool nonetheless

But is there going to be a "My girlfriend loves Pinkypie" t-shirt? Doubtful.
Is there going to be a "I love Pinkypie" t-shirt? Equally doubtful.

I think we've just hit the Resident Evil racism problem again...it's not that the producers are trying to be offensive, it's just they're ignorant of the consumers.

And in this day and age, with this much data available, I'm amazed at how they're getting it so wrong.

(Honest to god, I tried to get a Harley Quin T-Shirt at the Batman Live, and was roughly told that they didn't do them in sizes bigger than Small)

(What?! Girls can be bigger than small!)
I think there is something along the lines of 'I <3 Pinkie Pie'. I know that there's a 'I <3 Derpy' one.
But, granted, there isn't going to be a 'My Girlfriend Loves Ponies!' one.
...
Well, now there is coz I said it. :P

considering that marvel is running a series of blockbusters it's seems odd to me that they aren't stocking more female cut shirts. I mean, maybe, sure, the comic book reading populace is still 95% or more male but if less than 40% of the movie going population isn't female i'll eat my hat (empty threat i don't have a hat). With comic books and more directly comic book characters becoming more and more part of the cultural mainstream in a way it hasn't been since the golden age, it's really odd comic retailers aren't making it easier for the more clothing centric half of the population to spend their wardrobe dollars on comic clothes (i know thats stereotyping but it helps the point).

The_root_of_all_evil:
You think you've got problems...I can't get a Harley Quinn suit to fit me anywhere!

I'd be fascinated to learn how much MLP:FIM is produced for boys though - because I think there's a good percentage that would buy it.

badgersprite:
That reminded me of this.

image

Yeah, problem with that is that I know a number of girls who specifically look for the sexy costumes - including some that...potentially should think about wearing clothes that fit their figure better...phew.

You know what I mean. Curves are better when they're smooth rather than encapsulated. Equally with men.

Eh, there's nothing wrong with girls who want to dress sexy. I mean, for real, go ahead and express your sexuality and your identity if that's how you feel.

My problem is more the fact that society acts as if there is no alternative viewpoint, as if there is only one way to be a girl, as if we are a hivemind that collectively agrees on everything and there is no deviation from our collectively linked brains.

There's something really weird about society when they assume that just because I am a cisgendered female, then I obviously cannot aspire to look like anything other than this:

image

When I'd much rather look like this:

image

Basically, it's as bizarre and stupid as assuming that any male who identifies as male automatically aspires to be exactly like this:

image

It's sort of like, "There you go. That's your gender. Hope you like speedos and being shirtless, because that's the only thing you'll ever get to wear!"

Chrono212:
(What?! Girls can be bigger than small!)

Yeah, but they didn't bring any. Both Poison Ivy/Harley were in small or smaller.

I think there is something along the lines of 'I <3 Pinkie Pie'. I know that there's a 'I <3 Derpy' one.
But, granted, there isn't going to be a 'My Girlfriend Loves Ponies!' one.
...
Well, now there is coz I said it. :P

These aren't official though, are they? And I know that Lauren Faust actively follows the 'chan fandom.

But I really doubt if things like a MLP skateboard or keyboard would ever arrive.

Equally, can you imagine how well a Catwoman "Swag" backpack would sell? But we're far more likely to see a "Sexy" Catwoman suit or "Sexy" Catwoman makeup kit.

If they really wanted to do something authentically Iron Man, they could have at least done shot glasses...

image
Oh. my. god. They did as well...

Tony Stark, the recovering alcoholic... /facepalm.

Considering that clothing in general is much more refined and specialisied for the ladies (having a broader palette of things to wear) than for the male counterparts, I do see your point. Standard Clothing Departement store: 3 for floors for women, 1/2 floor for kids and 1 1/2 floor for men.

Still, I know that sounds stupid and has been said before, but if your not satisfied with the offer that the economy provides you should make/design/print your own t-shirts. I make it all the time and it's very satisfying.

Let's put it the other way round:
"Those man-hating monsters don't want your money, they just want to exploit those poor male bastards with their pretty wolverine t-shirt merchandise and get all their money" If you catch my drift.

Susan Arendt:
One Size Does Not Fit All

Women read comics too, you jerks.

Read Full Article

Wha..what? You're married to Mr. Pitts? Why the hell didn't I know about this before, and why wasn't I invited to the wedding? And please tell that there really was a cake at the reception.

badgersprite:

My problem is more the fact that society acts as if there is no alternative viewpoint, as if there is only one way to be a girl, as if we are a hivemind that collectively agrees on everything and there is no deviation from our collectively linked brains.

Hey, I'd prefer you as the Marine as well. Fairies are so overdone. And rarely done right.

Guys get it as well though. Look at the subtext of Susan's shirt:

image

My abs are possibly iron, but a long way off from steel. And even if I was built like a truck, I'd hardly feel comfortable with my girlfriend boasting I was indestructible.

Like I said before, I don't think they're offensive - just plain ignorant. But how...I have no idea?

badgersprite:
Eh, there's nothing wrong with girls who want to dress sexy. I mean, for real, go ahead and express your sexuality and your identity if that's how you feel.

My problem is more the fact that society acts as if there is no alternative viewpoint, as if there is only one way to be a girl, as if we are a hivemind that collectively agrees on everything and there is no deviation from our collectively linked brains.

There's something really weird about society when they assume that just because I am a cisgendered female, then I obviously cannot aspire to look like anything other than this:

Exactly. It's fine for people to be allowed to do a thing, it's not fine if they aren't allowed not to. Having the one doesn't excuse the other.

It says a lot about (mainstream, western) comics that while they've threaded very similar grounds to videogames despite coming into being over half a century before, they're pretty much the only medium with a more sexist view of women than videogames despite their headstart.

I'm not sure what it says, but it can't be a good thing.

Anyway, buy a large man's shirt, cut it up, and turn it into a minidress. (Oh, quiet. You can wear a minidress with pants.)

image

It's becoming self aware!

The_root_of_all_evil:

Chrono212:
(What?! Girls can be bigger than small!)

Yeah, but they didn't bring any. Both Poison Ivy/Harley were in small or smaller.

I think there is something along the lines of 'I <3 Pinkie Pie'. I know that there's a 'I <3 Derpy' one.
But, granted, there isn't going to be a 'My Girlfriend Loves Ponies!' one.
...
Well, now there is coz I said it. :P

These aren't official though, are they? And I know that Lauren Faust actively follows the 'chan fandom.

But I really doubt if things like a MLP skateboard or keyboard would ever arrive.

Equally, can you imagine how well a Catwoman "Swag" backpack would sell? But we're far more likely to see a "Sexy" Catwoman suit or "Sexy" Catwoman makeup kit.

If they really wanted to do something authentically Iron Man, they could have at least done shot glasses...

image
Oh. my. god. They did as well...

Tony Stark, the recovering alcoholic... /facepalm.

Shotglass fail. Anyway.
I'm not entirely sure where WeLoveFine and other websites selling tshirts stand on officialdom since they haven't been slapped with a Cease and Desist orders.
Hasbro seems fairly relaxed about creative Bronies as long as they get credit and their toy sales stay strong.

Catwomen has a swag bag?
But you're right, anything along those lines would have 'sexy' in their name (along the lines of that comic someone posted earlier).
I really can't think what to say other than "it's an endemic problem with the mindset of masculine comics".
Which is a really cheap excuse.

Maybe I could say, controversially, some women's costumes are more interesting and creative than men's. Not all, some.

Zachary Amaranth:

F'Angus:
That is ridiculous. They should AT LEAST be providing for girls the same designs as us guys get. What they're writing on the shirts just seems stupid, I personally wouldn't want to walk around with a girl with those one her shirt.

Plus, what if guys want a "my boyfriend is a superhero" shirt?

Glad I wasn't the only person to think this! :)

I can see the problem, though as a 6' tall and proportionately long-limbed woman I usually end up buying men's shirts anyway, since very often women's shirts are too frickin' short and/or small for me. Or too narrow across the shoulders and billowingly huge everywhere else. But that's a general issue I have with clothes shopping anyway. :/

For the sake of asking, because I'm just bored, would it be better to not have girls cut shirts at all, or to have overly stereotyped ones. Because while I agree that it's very out of character for marvels heroes to be dumbed down to stereotypes or used to promote them, isn't at least a step forward that they made the girls-cut shirts at all?

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