Star Wars: The Old Republic Hands On

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Monsterfurby:
Storyline and character development - all well and good, but what point is there to it if all the characters will ultimately have experienced the same events and have developed the same backstory? Roleplaying happens because players have different play styles and experiences during their game, not because their characters were shoehorned into the exact same plot.

This is really what I am worried about, as the game might provide a "rpg" experience, it might just kill the immersion for actual multi-player role-playing.

As a role-player myself, I've pretty much resolved this by treating the character I play in the story as completely separate from the one I play in all other situations. I just view the story as another evolution of the "theme park".

More worrying for me are the artificial character limitations that the story creates. Reportedly, you can't play, for example, a Pureblood Sith inquisitor. Why? Because in the inquisitor's story, you start out as a slave, and Purebloods aren't slaves. There are Pureblood inquisitors; you just can't play one. This is a pretty annoying limitation for anyone who actually wants to role-play.

BrotherRool:
Companions that look at your choices? Bioware have been forgiven of all my issues with them for that alone and is the first thing that has made me interested

Well it's not all that far removed from the way that companions reacted to choices that alter your good <--> evil axis in Baldur's Gate 2 and that was eleven years ago. And there is my obligatory Baldur's Gate comparison I've made for every single Bioware game released since Neverwinter Nights.

shadowmagus:

tmande2nd:
If not for the monthly subscription I would be getting it day one.

This is after playing the beta too.

Can you explain why a monthly sub is a deal breaker? This may not be the case with yourself, but many cringe at the idea of paying a $15 sub, but are quick to drop 60 bucks monthly on a new release, or even 20 bucks on a sale on Steam.

I feel the same way as tmande2nd so I thought I'd chime in with a response. The Old Republic already costs you as much as a typical game for the first month of ownership. This means that every month after the first that I pay a subscription fee, I'm essentially buying DLC for the product. What do I get for that money? Pretty much nothing new. Not only am I barely rewarded for my monthly subscriptions, but I also have to pay for expansion games on top of that should I want to get some real content additions.

The design of an MMO is such that I cannot experience the entire game in one month and as such owning the game with the intent to beat it with multiple classes means that I'll likely be paying well over $100 when it's all said and done.

Do I spend spend $20.00 here or there on Steam sales and $60.00 to buy new games? Of course. But I'm not willing to sacrifice those games to simply keep playing the same game I already own.

Personally, I would buy into the subscription model if the game and all expansions were entirely free to begin with. I'd admittedly still spend more on the MMO than I would a typical game, but at least I wouldn't feel as though I'm being ripped off as soon as I enter month 2.

Pr0:
Too many half ass good F2P MMO's have started to blur the vision in regards to pay to play titles.

Frankly I could care less about sub fees or not, if the games good, I'll pay, if the game sucks I won't even play it for free...and the games I won't play for free is getting to be a pretty long list.

Agreed 100%. I'm just wondering what it is that blurs the vision of the F2P enthusiasts. I haven't seen one remotely good MMO you could play for free. It's like comparing free titles to triple A ones and saying the triple A industry should be giving games away for free and include a donation button, it's just silly.

Korten12:

shadowmagus:

tmande2nd:
If not for the monthly subscription I would be getting it day one.

This is after playing the beta too.

Can you explain why a monthly sub is a deal breaker? This may not be the case with yourself, but many cringe at the idea of paying a $15 sub, but are quick to drop 60 bucks monthly on a new release, or even 20 bucks on a sale on Steam.

Because you could get GW2 and not have to pay for a sub? XD

That's a single game, quite literally the only example on the market (or I should say, coming to the market, at some point). Don't get me wrong, I applaud ArenaNet for GW2, but frankly, we're talking about two completely different games. Yes, some people see GW2 as superior for certain innovations (dynamic content, combat system etc.), but I for one wanna see those innovations in action before I declare the game superior to something that has already been proven to work, because if it doesn't, GW2 won't have anything else to make up for it (no end game raiding outside dynamic content).

I've played dynamic content in Rift and quite frankly, I'm not impressed. It's a great idea, but needs a LOT of work. If GW2 put that work in, great. But I got tired of Rift's dynamic content by level 15 or so. I'm just wondering, how much would it need to be improved for that sort of thing to replace a model I was happy with for years to last quite literally the whole lifespan of the game?

I'll be giving it a shot, GW2 may end up having a billion problems, but the one thing that will stand true is that it'll be great value for the money. But honestly, I'm can't get excited for the game whatever it does. Partly it's the setting, partly it's the fear of bad storytelling (GW's responsible for that and the way they're doing "dialogue" isn't exactly putting my fears to rest), partly I'm concerned over how the combat will feel (I've seen a lot of "innovative" combat systems fall flat on their arses), but mostly I'm just not feeling the game.

babinro:

shadowmagus:

tmande2nd:
If not for the monthly subscription I would be getting it day one.

This is after playing the beta too.

Can you explain why a monthly sub is a deal breaker? This may not be the case with yourself, but many cringe at the idea of paying a $15 sub, but are quick to drop 60 bucks monthly on a new release, or even 20 bucks on a sale on Steam.

I feel the same way as tmande2nd so I thought I'd chime in with a response. The Old Republic already costs you as much as a typical game for the first month of ownership. This means that every month after the first that I pay a subscription fee, I'm essentially buying DLC for the product. What do I get for that money? Pretty much nothing new. Not only am I barely rewarded for my monthly subscriptions, but I also have to pay for expansion games on top of that should I want to get some real content additions.

The design of an MMO is such that I cannot experience the entire game in one month and as such owning the game with the intent to beat it with multiple classes means that I'll likely be paying well over $100 when it's all said and done.

Do I spend spend $20.00 here or there on Steam sales and $60.00 to buy new games? Of course. But I'm not willing to sacrifice those games to simply keep playing the same game I already own.

Personally, I would buy into the subscription model if the game and all expansions were entirely free to begin with. I'd admittedly still spend more on the MMO than I would a typical game, but at least I wouldn't feel as though I'm being ripped off as soon as I enter month 2.

You are thinking of it in the wrong way, think of the game like a service, like say, netflix. You have access to everything the service has to offer if you pay a subscription. There's over 1000 hours of content in the game, so think of it as subscribing to have access to all that content. Also, typically for subscription games expansions tend to be between the realm of 30-40$ they are generally not fully priced (guild wars 1 did sell full priced expansions every 6 months before they dropped making them to work on 2)

Vrach:

That's a single game, quite literally the only example on the market (or I should say, coming to the market, at some point). Don't get me wrong, I applaud ArenaNet for GW2, but frankly, we're talking about two completely different games. Yes, some people see GW2 as superior for certain innovations (dynamic content, combat system etc.), but I for one wanna see those innovations in action before I declare the game superior to something that has already been proven to work, because if it doesn't, GW2 won't have anything else to make up for it (no end game raiding outside dynamic content).

I've played dynamic content in Rift and quite frankly, I'm not impressed. It's a great idea, but needs a LOT of work. If GW2 put that work in, great. But I got tired of Rift's dynamic content by level 15 or so. I'm just wondering, how much would it need to be improved for that sort of thing to replace a model I was happy with for years to last quite literally the whole lifespan of the game?

I'll be giving it a shot, GW2 may end up having a billion problems, but the one thing that will stand true is that it'll be great value for the money. But honestly, I'm can't get excited for the game whatever it does. Partly it's the setting, partly it's the fear of bad storytelling (GW's responsible for that and the way they're doing "dialogue" isn't exactly putting my fears to rest), partly I'm concerned over how the combat will feel (I've seen a lot of "innovative" combat systems fall flat on their arses), but mostly I'm just not feeling the game.

There are other limitations put on GW2 simply because it ISN'T a sub game, things like the number of loading screens and the size of the zones, things they don't advertise in the game play demos.

There are also several things that bug me about GW2's design philosophy that bother me, they have yet to show group content that actually shows people working together and not just doing their own thing. The instant teleporting to places you have been thing puts me off too, all that does is make the world feel smaller for the player. They make a big deal out of the event system, but so far the objectives of this system have been, for the most part, same old quest objectives we get in every mmo. I can either kill guys or collect stuff, super revolutionary Arenanet.

animehermit:
There are other limitations put on GW2 simply because it ISN'T a sub game, things like the number of loading screens and the size of the zones, things they don't advertise in the game play demos.

There are also several things that bug me about GW2's design philosophy that bother me, they have yet to show group content that actually shows people working together and not just doing their own thing. The instant teleporting to places you have been thing puts me off too, all that does is make the world feel smaller for the player. They make a big deal out of the event system, but so far the objectives of this system have been, for the most part, same old quest objectives we get in every mmo. I can either kill guys or collect stuff, super revolutionary Arenanet.

See, I'm not the tiniest bit surprised by that. I was actually wondering, if they're making a full on triple A MMO, how are they getting away with not being ppm or charging for microtransactions like the others (there will be microtransactions, but nothing that restricts content, just stuff like character slots and vanity items). I guess that explains it.

Either way, I'll see on launch, as I said, for all the issues it might have, it'll still be a worthy purchase considering it's a pay once, play forever model, but I very much doubt it'll be my MMO of choice, TOR has that spot secured with everything from the Star Wars setting to knowing how to advance the MMO genre - bit by bit.

Zhukov:
Doesn't the group thing get in the way of the conversations?

I'd be pretty miffed if I wanted to ask a character for more story content, only to have one of my colleagues hit the 'just shoot him' option.

And that would happen 100% of the time in my group.

*angry face*

Scars Unseen:

As a role-player myself, I've pretty much resolved this by treating the character I play in the story as completely separate from the one I play in all other situations. I just view the story as another evolution of the "theme park".

More worrying for me are the artificial character limitations that the story creates. Reportedly, you can't play, for example, a Pureblood Sith inquisitor. Why? Because in the inquisitor's story, you start out as a slave, and Purebloods aren't slaves. There are Pureblood inquisitors; you just can't play one. This is a pretty annoying limitation for anyone who actually wants to role-play.

Your solution is probably the only feasible one, and I guess it is manageable in an in-game context. Certainly, the same effect occurs in other MMORPGs that have a stringent quest structure as well, but quests there are often forgettable enough to not impact your experience that much if you just don't consider them part of your character's background.

I am not saying that SWTOR is going to be a bad game - by no means. In fact, what I have seen so far looks very promising. I am just worried that the 'game' aspect might overwhelm the 'multiplayer online role-playing' part of the equation. The character limitations you mention are another good point. The player will take a rather pre-determined role and go through a rather pre-determined (albeit probably exciting, gripping and well-designed) story which limits their ability to play the character they want. Add to that the need to filter out a lot of story and consider it as if it never happened, and you get my concerns about this being a good game, but not very immersive on the multiplayer part.

It IS easier to just ignore half-naked night elves running around yelling "LOLOLOLOLOLO" than ignoring something that is actually presented to your character as his or her actual in-universe experience.

Then again, the problem might be systemic. MMORPGs always had this problem, and I know of only four that did not: Ultima Online, Face of Mankind, EVE Online and, interestingly enough, Star Wars Galaxies.
All of these are built on the exact opposite principle to SWTOR - a persistent world. Sure, players can build not very roleplay conforming cities and have names that are kind of non-immersive, but the fact that you are free to act and build your own story already provides a lot of immersion.
As a roleplayer, I always looked at everything as if I was seeing it through sort of a translation lens - the "n00bownzers" guild might be called that, but by simply assuming that they probably have simply an equivalent name within the setting, albeit not the exact same one. It's just a translation thing. (For more elaboration on that, simply read T.H. White's "The Once and Future King" - he essentially tries to explain the story of King Arthur in modern words so as to make it understandable)

Does this work in SWTOR though? I would argue that it could be really hard to do this here. The game seems to try to immerse the player by taking away that translation lens, filtering the experience and making it more streamlined. In the process however, it takes imagination and individual gaming experiences out of the equation, thus possibly hurting the appeal of its multiplayer aspect or long-term motivation.

In conclusion, I do have to re-emphasize one thing: SWTOR is likely going to be a great game. Despite the cost, I will probably play it myself at some point. I am just slightly disappointed by the fact that, instead of developing better ways to procedurally tailor a story to the player character, they went the easy route of providing what is essentially a well-crafted but not very dynamic co-op experience.

tl;dr version: I agree with you, and I am somewhat worried that the linear nature of the game might hurt its long-term motivation.

Lawyer105:

Steve Butts:
snip

I see a lot of references to "Separatists" there. Are you really sure about that??

I'm not quite the SW fanboi I used to be in times gone by, but I'm pretty sure the Separatists were the ones that got caned during the creation of the Evil Empire.

I'm also pretty sure that there were only 2 Sith around during that time.

Not to immediately call doom or anything, but I'm not sure the consistency people have got their act together on this one.

<----- Is less hopeful than ever for TOR.

...Separatists is a term for usually any group of people, in fiction or real life, who wish to secede from something.

There have been multiple groups of separatists in the Star Wars universe, as there has been in real life, which is understandable seeing as we're now covering over 4000 years of Star Wars timeline, that involves planets across a whole galaxy.

All my buddies and I jumped on the Guild Wars bandwagon quite a long time ago and it just didn't work out too well. The intro levels were nice, but after the timeskip things just went downhill. You were pretty much stuck in a scarred fiery landscape for what seemed like ages that differed very little and those goddamned scorpions popped up after every 10 feet and took way too long to dispatch.

Then when we DID finally hit the mountains and you could get 6 people on a team, using henchmen to round out our numbers wasn't feasible and I just didn't like the prospect of having to PuG every damned time I wanted to quest, so that was the end of that. I'm sure they've steamlined it or we were doing something wrong, but it was just a poor experience starting out.

I don't expect TOR to be the MMO to end all MMOs, or even all THAT original, I'm sure it's essentially a WoW offshoot as far as the fundamentals go but that's enough for me. Plenty of extra flavor after playing a game for 6 years to keep me going for another few at least.

babinro:

Personally, I would buy into the subscription model if the game and all expansions were entirely free to begin with. I'd admittedly still spend more on the MMO than I would a typical game, but at least I wouldn't feel as though I'm being ripped off as soon as I enter month 2.

This is the more sensible solution to me, and what I think we will see in future MMO's 5-10 yeras from now, perhaps combined with f2P. No MMO I have ever played came close to justifying a $15 fee every month from every player in terms of game updates and new content, things that are not simply bug fixes and tweaks (which I don't think the player should be paying for).
This would be more digestible to me if it was the only fee charge, but in-game cash shops, the initial purchase and yearly full-price expansions (which are the ones that usually add the actual content rather than what goes on between expansions) just piss me off. It's a lot of money you're shelling out without getting anything tangible back, and no one's ever offered a reasonable explanation as to where all that money goes and why it's necessary to keep the game running.

Steve Butts:
BioWare's promised to bring meaningful storytelling to the MMO genre and, based on the starting planets at least, that promise has been fulfilled. For one thing, all the content on the starting planets revolves around a single theme.

Every MMO I have played for any length of time has a theme for the storylines in its starting region, and the regions that follow. Every. Fucking. One. With the exception of cluttering the game up with cutscenes Bioware are not doing anything new, so can we please for the sake of my sanity stop quoting this marketing bullshit like it's actually true.

Ooooooo. I'm a sucker for a good BioWare RPG, and the prospect of a BioWare game that lasts some 5 times longer than the average one... Dang it. I just can't afford to pay subscription fees.

Seems I have to post this again:

Ah, but the issue here is that every quest is related to this theme. There are plenty of MMOs that have some sort of theme, but there are also plenty of side quest lines that aren't connected to the main story.

Looks neat and all but I wonder if we'll have to wait til the 3rd of 4th expansion pack to, you know, fly spaceships.

2xDouble:

Seems I have to post this again:

This guys opinion is less valid than mine or your by the fact he plays games to gain income on his channel, so pissing off the SWTOR people will lose him the WoW players from his channel, or people that like wow but dont play but are going to play SWTOR for some reason.

I'm just going to say SWTOR maybe good(highly unlikely) but the main issue is that it cannot justify the monthly fee, The fact that old MMO's needed a monthly fee is true, but these days bandwidth costs/Server costs are nothing, they dont even come close to being a major expanse.

Need proof?
Free WoW private server's: An average server can support up to 500 people on these servers that costs less than $50/month
YouTube: Allows you to upload as much content as you want, again this would be too expansive back in 1998 to support.
Diablo 3: D3 will force you to stay connected 24/7 and will track your Mana/HP items gold etc on the server side, Proof bandwidth is a non issue

ionveau:
This guys opinion is less valid than mine or your by the fact he plays games to gain income on his channel, so pissing off the SWTOR people will lose him the WoW players from his channel, or people that like wow but dont play but are going to play SWTOR for some reason.

Obviously you don't know Totalbiscuit. He's actually quite vocal about his preferences in his other videos, much like Yahtzee. That was a speech summarizing day 1 of Gamescom to silence whiny trolls on both sides of the "better game" argument.

...as if that ever works. heh.

Soviet Heavy:
Republic Fighting Separatists? God, can they not come up with some cool name for an independent league? Like the League of Independence or something?

Ooo I got it. How about "Confederacy of Independent Systems". Definitely the right name to use.

2xDouble:

ionveau:
This guys opinion is less valid than mine or your by the fact he plays games to gain income on his channel, so pissing off the SWTOR people will lose him the WoW players from his channel, or people that like wow but dont play but are going to play SWTOR for some reason.

Obviously you don't know Totalbiscuit. He's actually quite vocal about his preferences in his other videos, much like Yahtzee. That was a speech summarizing day 1 of Gamescom to silence whiny trolls on both sides of the "better game" argument.

...as if that ever works. heh.

That was actually more aimed at the mouthbreathing GW2 elitists than any SWTOR fans.

As for your rant about GW2, well, I'll believe it when I see it, I've had my fill of GW2 previews several of them in fact, and I have yet to see any of what you mentioned. There's still tons of stuff I don't like about the game and Arenanet isn't exactly high up on my "developers I actually like" list.

Zhukov:
Doesn't the group thing get in the way of the conversations?

I'd be pretty miffed if I wanted to ask a character for more story content, only to have one of my colleagues hit the 'just shoot him' option.

It's bioware, I'd be very surprised if I ever saw a just shoot him option.

OT: I don't enjoy the gameplay in many RPGs but I play them for a compelling story. I'm kinda hoping that this game will provide that. Not that fun gameplay wouldn't be nice it's just that I would like to play KOTOR 3. I know it isn't but I can hope.

animehermit:
That was actually more aimed at the mouthbreathing GW2 elitists than any SWTOR fans.

As for your rant about GW2, well, I'll believe it when I see it, I've had my fill of GW2 previews several of them in fact, and I have yet to see any of what you mentioned. There's still tons of stuff I don't like about the game and Arenanet isn't exactly high up on my "developers I actually like" list.

I'll try not to take that personally... and no it wasn't. There are plenty of douchebags and ignorance on both sides, especially on youtube (which isn't exactly famous for its hospitality anyway), and on Totalbiscuit's channel in particular, especially after declaring his preference for Guild Wars 2.

Everything I said was there. If you played the game and didn't experience what I describe, then I'm sorry you didn't like it; I hope TOR is satisfactory for you. If you haven't, GW2 will still be around if you'd like to see for yourself. Both The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 are spectacular, and more importantly really fun games. There is room for both, which was TB's point.

2xDouble:

animehermit:
That was actually more aimed at the mouthbreathing GW2 elitists than any SWTOR fans.

As for your rant about GW2, well, I'll believe it when I see it, I've had my fill of GW2 previews several of them in fact, and I have yet to see any of what you mentioned. There's still tons of stuff I don't like about the game and Arenanet isn't exactly high up on my "developers I actually like" list.

I'll try not to take that personally... and no it wasn't. There are plenty of douchebags and ignorance on both sides, especially on youtube (which isn't exactly famous for its hospitality anyway), and on Totalbiscuit's channel in particular, especially after declaring his preference for Guild Wars 2.

Everything I said was there. If you played the game and didn't experience what I describe, then I'm sorry you didn't like it; I hope TOR is satisfactory for you. If you haven't, GW2 will still be around if you'd like to see for yourself. Both The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 are spectacular, and more importantly really fun games. There is room for both, which was TB's point.

That wasn't aimed at you, but more the GW2 community, which is pretty awful. It was 90% gw2 elitists in that comment section, considering it was the SWTOR video that started it.

I can see that there is room for both games, and that gw2 isn't my thing, I'm just tired of it's community members bringing it up in EVERY SINGLE SWTOR article, WE GET IT YOU HATE SWTOR AND LOVE GW2.

Darkside360:

Nemu:
Personally, I had a lot of fun in the beta. There are some visual...issues I have with it (desktop/interface is too big, et al), but they're cosmetic issues.

Found a new favorite race to play as well. :D

I believe you just broke the NDA.

Then so has the company itself when they released their promo videos.

animehermit:

2xDouble:

animehermit:
That was actually more aimed at the mouthbreathing GW2 elitists than any SWTOR fans.

As for your rant about GW2, well, I'll believe it when I see it, I've had my fill of GW2 previews several of them in fact, and I have yet to see any of what you mentioned. There's still tons of stuff I don't like about the game and Arenanet isn't exactly high up on my "developers I actually like" list.

I'll try not to take that personally... and no it wasn't. There are plenty of douchebags and ignorance on both sides, especially on youtube (which isn't exactly famous for its hospitality anyway), and on Totalbiscuit's channel in particular, especially after declaring his preference for Guild Wars 2.

Everything I said was there. If you played the game and didn't experience what I describe, then I'm sorry you didn't like it; I hope TOR is satisfactory for you. If you haven't, GW2 will still be around if you'd like to see for yourself. Both The Old Republic and Guild Wars 2 are spectacular, and more importantly really fun games. There is room for both, which was TB's point.

That wasn't aimed at you, but more the GW2 community, which is pretty awful. It was 90% gw2 elitists in that comment section, considering it was the SWTOR video that started it.

And yet here you are basically acting like a SW:TOR elitist, who considers himself and the community he is part of better than the other.

And you know, by reacting to the GW2 fans in this thread in such a hostile way you have proven that you are no better than them.

AlotFirst:

And yet here you are basically acting like a SW:TOR elitist, who considers himself and the community he is part of better than the other.

And you know, by reacting to the GW2 fans in this thread in such a hostile way you have proven that you are no better than them.

It's not being elitist if it was true, I saw the comments on that video they were atrocious.

Also, I haven't responded in a hostile way to anyone in this thread, I made some passing comments about the Gw2 community but not anyone here in particular. Like what you wanna like, but don't go out of your way to spread false information about a game you don't like. That's just being an asshole.

Nemu:

Darkside360:

Nemu:
Personally, I had a lot of fun in the beta. There are some visual...issues I have with it (desktop/interface is too big, et al), but they're cosmetic issues.

Found a new favorite race to play as well. :D

I believe you just broke the NDA.

Then so has the company itself when they released their promo videos.

No thats not how it works.

animehermit:

AlotFirst:

And yet here you are basically acting like a SW:TOR elitist, who considers himself and the community he is part of better than the other.

And you know, by reacting to the GW2 fans in this thread in such a hostile way you have proven that you are no better than them.

It's not being elitist if it was true, I saw the comments on that video they were atrocious.

Also, I haven't responded in a hostile way to anyone in this thread, I made some passing comments about the Gw2 community but not anyone here in particular. Like what you wanna like, but don't go out of your way to spread false information about a game you don't like. That's just being an asshole.

That's my point though. SW:TOR fans are just as bad (and worse, on some occasions) on GW2 articles. Seriously, if The Escapist would ever do an article on GW2, you'll see all the TOR trolls come out of the woodwork. Hell, just look at the GW2 Trailer video commentaries, three or four comments about "this is awesome" then a page or so of our exact discussion, in reverse: "GW2 sucks, TOR is better", "no it doesn't", "yes it does", "TOR fans suck", [Totalbiscuit's video], "shut up, troll", etc., etc.

It's systemic, basically every internet comment on every rivalry ever. It has nothing to do with either game, or either community being better than any other. (by the way, claiming one side is better because you only view one side is elitist.) Why would SW:TOR fans be dicks to each other, when there are GW2 forums to troll?

PS: For the record, the majority of GW2 community does not hate SW:TOR. Most are looking forward to playing both, among other games. The "people" you see, just like the "people" I see, are a vocal minority. The problem is, as I alluded to earlier, SW:TOR gets far more attention than any other MMO (even before the release date), so naturally the number of trolls is higher. The lack of coverage is going to screw our game out of audience; GW2 fans HAVE to post on other forums, just to get people to look at it.

2xDouble:

animehermit:

AlotFirst:

And yet here you are basically acting like a SW:TOR elitist, who considers himself and the community he is part of better than the other.

And you know, by reacting to the GW2 fans in this thread in such a hostile way you have proven that you are no better than them.

It's not being elitist if it was true, I saw the comments on that video they were atrocious.

Also, I haven't responded in a hostile way to anyone in this thread, I made some passing comments about the Gw2 community but not anyone here in particular. Like what you wanna like, but don't go out of your way to spread false information about a game you don't like. That's just being an asshole.

That's my point though. SW:TOR fans are just as bad (and worse, on some occasions) on GW2 articles. Seriously, if The Escapist would ever do an article on GW2, you'll see all the TOR trolls come out of the woodwork. Hell, just look at the GW2 Trailer video commentaries, three or four comments about "this is awesome" then a page or so of our exact discussion, in reverse: "GW2 sucks, TOR is better", "no it doesn't", "yes it does", "TOR fans suck", [Totalbiscuit's video], "shut up, troll", etc., etc.

It's systemic, basically every internet comment on every rivalry ever. It has nothing to do with either game, or either community being better than any other. Claiming one side is better because you only view one side is elitist. Why would SW:TOR fans be dicks to each other, when there are GW2 forums to troll?

Have to disagree there mate. I look at trailers all the time and while GW2 isn't my primary interest (for some reason it just ain't grabbing me, but I'm picking it up as it's a one time fee when it comes out anyway), I check them out when they're out. Go ahead and look through the comments sections of any GW2-related videos/articles on Escapist. I just went through a few threads to give your theory a go, but no, sorry, 95% comments positive, one or two negative and I've yet to see a TOR fan bash it.

Now go through quite literally every single TOR related trailer or article. 80% responses, at least, are negative and 95% of those are based on EA hate, BioWare hate, GW2 fans bashing, misinformation, ridiculous presumptions, "WoW clone" yellers or any combination thereof.

Now, on YouTube, forums etc. the situation might be different, but as far as the Escapist is concerned, this is one hell of a negative group of people when TOR is mentioned. Any mention of GW2? Cheers all over the place. Now, I get it, GW2's the underdog for going the pay-once route and well... just not having an EA logo on it, but still, it gets quite tiresome. Most of the TOR fans here have just stopped commenting in replies because they're just bored of the same replies that are based on some bullshit 99% of the time.

I agree with you though, it has nothing to do with the game, either game, or rather any game (this same shit's going on for a number of other titles, particularly in the case of EA/ActiVision games) and no community is better than another. But yeah, Escapist is a bit of a special case (or maybe I just don't frequent many other non-game-specific gaming sites) as we've got a severe case of UpOurOwnArseitis where a lot of people feel compelled to cheer at anything down in the dumps (even if it's actually not [hi Mojang!] or it deserves to be there) and boo anything that manages to be successful, particularly financially so.

Vrach:
Have to disagree there mate. I look at trailers all the time and while GW2 isn't my primary interest (for some reason it just ain't grabbing me, but I'm picking it up as it's a one time fee when it comes out anyway), I check them out when they're out. Go ahead and look through the comments sections of any GW2-related videos/articles on Escapist. I just went through a few threads to give your theory a go, but no, sorry, 95% comments positive, one or two negative and I've yet to see a TOR fan bash it.

I'll give you that. TOR fans here pretty much just ignore GW2, which is part of the problem.

Now go through quite literally every single TOR related trailer or article. 80% responses, at least, are negative and 95% of those are based on EA hate, BioWare hate, GW2 fans bashing, misinformation, ridiculous presumptions, "WoW clone" yellers or any combination thereof.

That should say something too. Its not just GW2 bashing TOR, it's everyone who has a reason (any reason, even disliking the boxart) to hate the game bashing TOR. GW2 just happens to be the primary rival, and as such gets dragged into the conversation whenever someone has something negative to say about TOR, then GW2 gets insulted, and the argument continues. It may not be as visible on The Escapist, but GW2-friendly sites like Massively and KillTenRats are swarming with trolls, forcing GW2 fans to defend their game, sometimes proactively.

Now, on YouTube, forums etc. the situation might be different, but as far as the Escapist is concerned, this is one hell of a negative group of people when TOR is mentioned. Any mention of GW2? Cheers all over the place. Now, I get it, GW2's the underdog for going the pay-once route and well... just not having an EA logo on it, but still, it gets quite tiresome. Most of the TOR fans here have just stopped commenting in replies because they're just bored of the same replies that are based on some bullshit 99% of the time.

I completely agree. It is extremely tiresome. The whole argument is stupid. Both games are very fun. There is no chance of TOR failing no matter who says what about it, thanks to its curb appeal alone. The fact that it also happens to be able to back it up with exciting if "traditional" gameplay and fantastic Bioware storytelling just cements it. As Totalbiscuit said in another video, "There is no 'better game', they both do what they do very, very well".

At some point on your starting planet, you'll eventually find your first companion character. The Jedi Knight, for instance, rescues an astromech from the Flesh Raiders, while the Smuggler allies himself with a battle-hardened soldier who shares a common enemy.

Companions can even help you out in combat, allowing you to take on even tougher challenges than you would normally.

Wait a minute. Unless TOR has some crazy amount of different companions, that means that you'll be guaranteed to see other players running around with the same companion as you are. Is that addressed in any way?

Darth_Dude:

notimeforlulz:
if I remember the trailer correctly, in this game your level is represented by how many light sabers you can use at the same time, I wanna be the first guy to have 12, I'll throw seven of them, and hack away with the other 5.

WHAT?! Are you sure you're remembering right? There's no way Bioware would put something so ridiculous into the game.

I was just making fun of the fact that the trailer displayed a geometric progression of No. of sabers welded to represent badassatry to make the trailer seem coolios. Sorry if I disturbed your perceptions of bioware and star wars, but the simple fact of the matter is that storyboard writers working on star wars games can't seem to see how lame their use of multi-saber wielding is.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/unskippable/3538-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic

Just so you can see for yourself

Adam28:
I kind of want to this just for storyline purposes. I would of been sold if the game didn't seem so black and white for the evil and good options. Sounds like if I choose to be a sith I'm stuck being one and my choices should be all be dark sided related, and the same vice versa.

Still, I really do want to check this out. I can't help but worry about it's future though, I hope enough players get it.

Actually. You can play a Jedi and do all dark side choices.
And play a Sith and do all light side choices.

Adam28:
I kind of want to this just for storyline purposes. I would of been sold if the game didn't seem so black and white for the evil and good options. Sounds like if I choose to be a sith I'm stuck being one and my choices should be all be dark sided related, and the same vice versa.

Still, I really do want to check this out. I can't help but worry about it's future though, I hope enough players get it.

Thats the big issue I have with the whole system. Cause you know that its going to be very Mass Effect-y with tis dialogue options. There'll be one option that covers whatever a reasonable/sane person would say, and then the evil option which to them apparently means complete and utter dickishness at all times, regardless of context. And, at the end of the day, every Jedi character will choose all the light side options, and every sith will choose all the dark side ones, so whats the point of having a choice at all?

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