Zero Punctuation: Batman: Arkham City

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"Don't buy pre-owned?" This from the guy who once flogged Gametraders Robina in his Super Smash Bros. Brawl review (although the Robina store doesn't appear to exist anymore)?

I'm not sure who you talked to, or what distorted world view they managed to slip in your Kool-Aid, but trading in used games is not and never has been a problem.

GameStop, on the other hand, are monumental assholes, and should not be patronized under any circumstances.

I'll buy it new...the GOTY edition in summer 2012 with all the bonuses included. Worst thing about modern gaming...

Yeah they had so much ambition and wanted to cram in so many characters, encounters etc that nothing really gets as much attention as it deserves and while its all magnificent you can't help but wonder how much more incredible it could have been with more focus. Also their is one scarecrow-like moment in the game with another character, but its over too quickly which is lame. I wanted more "get inside bruce waynes head" stuff like that.

Also yeah wayyyy too much riddle stuff this time around. I intend to find and complete all of it on PC in a couple weeks just so I can see what the riddler encounter is like lol.

Anyone else get the feeling that he had a hard time picking flaws? To me it seemed like he was just talking about a few blatantly obvious things that are only occasionally frustrating.

And based on ZP's previous videos...I think that means he really liked this game haha

Mad Hatter is what one might call a sort of replacement scrappy for the lack of Scarecrow, but at least the game doesn't pretend to reboot your console. Some of the puzzle sections had the same problems the first game had - difficult to locate and follow. And why is the A/X button still the Run button?

Still it's very superior to the first one because there's moar gadgets and combat feels... Pretty unchanged, actually. Enemies ragdoll-izing still looks as stupid as ever because of random movements so they almost never grab their heads like they're supposed to, herp derp.

Catwoman's sections were pretty flowbreaking for the story IMO. It's a Batman game, I wanna play as Batman. Catwoman only interests me for cutscene teasing. Plus her differing combat style broke me out of my acquaintance with Batman's combat style so it only got harder to fight enemies because I wasn't used to Catwoman's animations and timing. Speaking of, why do you have to QTE your way up buildings when you pounce when failure or success doesn't even mean anything since you pounce up seemingly automatically anyway?

Still easily a Game of The Year candidate. These two Batman games are the only ones I've seen that really gets you into Batman's psyche and makes you feel like you ARE The Batman. I guess the games have that effect on people who watched The Animated Series as kids, and now the games sort of demystify Batman's supreme intellect and gadgetry.

Something about the line about the Riddler running around with a team of contractors made me laugh pretty hard.
I kind of imagined it. Like all the villians are dividing up terf and fortafying buildings, meanwhile the Riddler and his team are just running around the city just fucking around.

"Hey do you know what the Riddler is up to?"
"No, but I saw him and some people trying to climb a statue earlier. I didn't really want to ask him..."

CopperBoom:
I am glad for the issues he states because I had them too.
I would say he was more positive about this game than I was which is unusually though.
Bigger really DOES NOT mean better though.

The little bit about wanting to die after reading his last weblog post was a bit jarring and sad. I hope the little guy is holding up well. No noose around his neck or anything.

did somthing happen?

Noelveiga:

The Noble Shade:
Since he brought it up...
I understand the plight of game developers these days, but I shouldn't have to feel bad for buying pre-owned. No other industry complains about this sort of thing. I know developers and publishers don't make any money off pre-owned sales (and I REALLY hate GameStop), but the 60 dollar price model is too steep for me. I don't buy games THAT often, and if I have to buy a game used to save a chunk of cash, I will.
Solution? Cut the price! It can't be that hard. Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 will only be 40 USD new. That's a a perfectly reasonable price.

Not true. The music industry tried to block pre-owned sales forever. So did the video industry. And neither of those had as much of a problem with it as the games industry, partially because there was no massive retailer doing it, and partially because they had other sources of income (radio, theatre tickets, TV).

So yeah.

Also, you can buy new games at 30 bucks if you want. A ton of games get their price cut, and Steam will sell you reasonably priced gaming at any given time. You just think that the game that you really want and just came out yesterday is too expensive which, really, makes your plight feel way less reasonable. If 60 bucks is too much you can go buy a number of "humble indie bundles" right now and get 100+ hours of gameplay for as much as you want to play. Just not Arkham City.

I don't use Steam, I buy games by the disk like a lot of people. My point is, I shouldn't have to feel chastised just because I want to be pre-owned to save some cash.

...Did anyone at all pick up on the sliiight inkling that he might have been being just a mite *sarcastic* with the whole 'used games' comment?

and before anyone jumps down my throat, it is not possible to tell, and I doubt he has the desire to explain which is true.

What's wrong with pre-owned?

Speaking of unnecessary sequels, isnt The Darkness 2 coming up soon? but that doesnt really bothers me because i am really curious if he actually finished the first game or just the demo only? and why he didnt review the demos of other games back then? It seemed that the game actually isnt that cutscene heavy in the sense that for a few key moments you still control the player in the cutscenes kinda like Half Life does, so i was specting him to mention that and what else could have been improved

DVS BSTrD:
Glad to hear the Batman sequel was handled capeably.
I'll be picking-up this game soon enough.

Likewise. Its on my list of "games you should probably play because most people can agree that they are good games", up there with Psychonauts and a few of those arcade games released on xblive during the summer.

ewhac:
"Don't buy pre-owned?" This from the guy who once flogged Gametraders Robina in his Super Smash Bros. Brawl review (although the Robina store doesn't appear to exist anymore)?

I'm not sure who you talked to, or what distorted world view they managed to slip in your Kool-Aid, but trading in used games is not and never has been a problem.

GameStop, on the other hand, are monumental assholes, and should not be patronized under any circumstances.

That was back in 2008, dude. Opinions and stances can change easily in 3 years. Especially with something as turbulent as the video game industry.

O.T. Glad to hear it's on the same level as AA. The few nitpicks Yahtzee had with AA didn't bother me much, and the prospect of flying all around a walled off city as Batman makes up for a lack of structure for someone like me.

Didn't he catch the plot point that Hugo Strange influenced and blackmailed the mayor? Since he's wondering how he can get away with all of this

Kopikatsu:

Melopahn:
Calling you out Yahtzee 100% of the side missions are completable after having beat the game.

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it can't be done.

For example. I didn't do one side mission until i beat the game and now I have a file that's 100% complete.

So like many others I don't get this complaint. If you need help grasping this concept feel free to flame me then i will tell you where to look and why you are still wrong and giggle like a giddy child.


Other then that there is going to be a 3rd game so I'm sure a lot of villians will get their time to shine in that game.

Since I missed Killer Croc and black mask.

Not true. I know for a fact that 'Find Nora' and the Mad Hatter's sidequest can't be completed after the story ends. Freeze permanently locks himself in the lab, and the Hatter's thingy vanishes after Batman is cured.

You can break into the police building from the water. You throw a freeze grenade off the edge and pull yourself in through an exploded wall. Mad Hatter's thing changes place. He will become open after you have captured zsasz and Deadshot. Otherwise it will not be there.

So I say again. I beat the game 100% not doing 1 side quest or riddler puzzle of any kind until new game plus.

I went from 0 challenges and 0 sidequests to done. If something isn't where it should be go inside a building and come back out to reload the map. Also check if the side quest involves multiple locations. You may have to start at another one first.

President Bagel:
It's always good to buy games new, and help support the developers.

I agree.

I even don't mind disc-locked content that has to be paid for with Microsoft Points because:

a) it is optional

b) were it a download it would take up unnecessary space on the HDD

Operations:

Yearlongjester:
when your friend tells you the new game you got is shit, you start to look for all the flaws and stop enjoying the moment.

No what you do is say "It's not as shit as your face" :D

My friend, how right you are! :D

Vault101:

CopperBoom:
I am glad for the issues he states because I had them too.
I would say he was more positive about this game than I was which is unusually though.
Bigger really DOES NOT mean better though.

The little bit about wanting to die after reading his last weblog post was a bit jarring and sad. I hope the little guy is holding up well. No noose around his neck or anything.

did somthing happen?

Not really, just in his current post [http://fullyramblomatic-yahtzee.blogspot.com/2011/10/hello-there.html#comments] he said:

"Fact is, I've put off updating this site and doing pretty much anything except my professional obligations because I've had another flare-up of the old depression that's been building up for quite some time. I'm on top of it, though. Don't feel you need to post sympathies because there's nothing more excruciating than people walking on eggshells around - oh, you weren't planning to post sympathies? Oh. Well, good. Good, actually."

...and then there was a little bit about it in the post.

So Yahtzee, if you so firmly believe that we need to pay full price for our games instead of used just to support game developers, why do you constantly complain about the prices? Shouldn't you be happy to pay out the nose to support the developers? Because you're happy to let them tell people that they can't trade and sell the property that they bought and is legally theirs. Why should you be angry about them raising prices? Either way it's the same argument: the increased amount of money you have to pay supports the game company.

So, the whole "you should buy new to support developers because that way you're giving them more money to support them" argument only applies to used games, not priced, right? Just want to make sure I'm getting your logic.

Aww... I thought Yahtzee was just a typical everyman like us (who happens to have is own internet show) but he's just an aristocratic snotty highbrow like the rest of the industry, you know, with the whole "you must buy games new" thing.

Not everyone is like you, Yahtzee. Some of us can't afford new games all the time, and that's okay. The game industry is the only one that whines that everyone involved MUST buy new games, which is ridiculous. I see no authors complaining that their readers buy books used. Hell, I gave my novel away for free and I'm not hurt about it...

...much...

Also, I totally bought YOUR book used. How do you like them apples? I like them FINE.

Sounds like a great game. Shame I'm still boycotting DC.

What side missions actually get locked off after the end of the main story? Pretty sure the only one I finished before the end of the campaign was the Mad Hatter one. I guess that one getting locked off makes sense given the context.

Anyway, this is definitely my favorite game of the year.

plainlake:
No catwoman if bought preowned? I believe I get a better product if I pirate it then. And can someone tell the publishers that the only one they annoy with DRM is the ones that buy it? More than once I have bought a game, then pirated the same game because of annoyining DRM.

Arkham Asylum actually had a rather infamous(ly creative) example of anti piracy DRM that made it impossible to get past the first hour of the game by gimping Batman's ability to glide. It would be a mistake to assume they wouldn't have done something similar in Arkham City. At the very least, if you do pirate and something like that happens, dont ask about some odd "glitch" you run into and out yourself as having, in the developers words, "a glitch in your moral code."

Not that I'm coming down on one side or the other on the whole "witholding optional and completely inconsequential in that if doesn't effect the game in anyway if you buy preowned method of DRM" debate. I'm just giving a little warning.

The Noble Shade:

Noelveiga:

The Noble Shade:
Since he brought it up...
I understand the plight of game developers these days, but I shouldn't have to feel bad for buying pre-owned. No other industry complains about this sort of thing. I know developers and publishers don't make any money off pre-owned sales (and I REALLY hate GameStop), but the 60 dollar price model is too steep for me. I don't buy games THAT often, and if I have to buy a game used to save a chunk of cash, I will.
Solution? Cut the price! It can't be that hard. Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 will only be 40 USD new. That's a a perfectly reasonable price.

Not true. The music industry tried to block pre-owned sales forever. So did the video industry. And neither of those had as much of a problem with it as the games industry, partially because there was no massive retailer doing it, and partially because they had other sources of income (radio, theatre tickets, TV).

So yeah.

Also, you can buy new games at 30 bucks if you want. A ton of games get their price cut, and Steam will sell you reasonably priced gaming at any given time. You just think that the game that you really want and just came out yesterday is too expensive which, really, makes your plight feel way less reasonable. If 60 bucks is too much you can go buy a number of "humble indie bundles" right now and get 100+ hours of gameplay for as much as you want to play. Just not Arkham City.

I don't use Steam, I buy games by the disk like a lot of people. My point is, I shouldn't have to feel chastised just because I want to be pre-owned to save some cash.

I will get into it here though! =D

A lot of people aren't really getting the idea behind this kind of DLC thing. You aren't being "chastised" for buying preowned. Instead the point is to reward people who buy new. You, as someone who buys preowned, isn't even worth considering as far as this system goes!

There, don't you feel better now?

No, screw the publishers. Used games are supporting the industry because they give value to the people who purchase the freaking thing first. Now that I can't onsell it when I'm finished, it's worth less to me. In fact, it's worth less to me the second you make me enter stupid codes on XBOX awkwardly through a bloody game controller. And when my wife found that part of the game was locked off from her because it only gives you one bloody code.

And in the case of something like Uncharted 3, where the pass system actually locks people out of playing online and thus REDUCES THE NUMBER OF GAMES I CAN FIND ONLINE AS A FIRST PURCHASER you see that this stupid single-use-only code crap is garbage and needs to be wiped out.

Publishers, a simple message: this single-use code crap makes me buy fewer of your games. You are LOSING SALES. Stop it.

Kopikatsu:

Melopahn:
Calling you out Yahtzee 100% of the side missions are completable after having beat the game.

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it can't be done.

For example. I didn't do one side mission until i beat the game and now I have a file that's 100% complete.

So like many others I don't get this complaint. If you need help grasping this concept feel free to flame me then i will tell you where to look and why you are still wrong and giggle like a giddy child.


Other then that there is going to be a 3rd game so I'm sure a lot of villians will get their time to shine in that game.

Since I missed Killer Croc and black mask.

Not true. I know for a fact that 'Find Nora' and the Mad Hatter's sidequest can't be completed after the story ends. Freeze permanently locks himself in the lab, and the Hatter's thingy vanishes after Batman is cured.

That's not true. I left a lot of the side missions until after the game ended, and two of those were finding Nora and The Tea Party. Still managed to get them done afterwards!

:D cmon dc n marval, learn from AA and AC and put out more comic gold!

When trading in games, it is for one of the following reasons:
1. The game I have is shit and I have no more use for it
2. There is a new game coming out that I really want but can't afford because of the stupid standardized $60 price point

So are you against me buying more new games or you are in favor of promoting shit games that can't be resold?

When buying used it is for one of the following reasons:
1. It is an older game that is either unavailable new or hard to find (by this time, "new" sales are not consequential anyway because it is generally just retailers clearancing out remaining stock)
2. The game is interesting enough to pay this price for, but not that price for

This system is a prime example of free market capitalism doing it's job of rewarding publishers for good games and punishing publishers for bad games. Anyone who wants to take that away is against good games whether they realize it or not.

Nico4:
Didn't he catch the plot point that Hugo Strange influenced and blackmailed the mayor? Since he's wondering how he can get away with all of this

I'm quite sure he caught it. That doesn't change the fact that it's still completely ludicrous. Bruce Wayne is a billionaire whose investment in Gotham City is probably its biggest asset and the only reason it hasn't spiralled into recession. For him to essentially be kidnapped by a private security force in front of hundreds of cameras makes absolutely no sense, not to mention that they not only capture him but several of those reporters. Hugo Strange would not only need to influence the mayor, he'd need to send out thugs to pacify any Gotham citizens who might protest against the manhandling of the press, he'd need serious leverage over the police force to stop them coming to free people who have been unlawfully detained, and if they didn't do their job, a company with as much economic influence as Wayne Enterprises would probably march up to Congress and have them declare martial law in Gotham, as one could make a clear case that with an incompetent mayor and police force unable to prevent important citizens from being illegally detained the government would have to send in the troops to restore order.

The opening of Arkham City was, for me, a shining example of just how bad comic book writing can get. 10 minutes in and they've already broken at least a dozen laws of rationality and pulled the "Batman's identity is compromised" card. Why is that stupid? His identity being revealed is literally the worst thing that can happen to him. Put that out there at the very start of the game and it's going to be impossible to really feel like the stakes are ever going to be raised any higher.

radioactive lemur:
Is it my imagination, or is this the first time Yahtzee has EXPLICITLY recommended a game after taking the piss out of it for 5 minutes and having almost nothing good to say about it.

Well, he did say "All things I liked about Arkham Asylum are still there," and in his Arkham Asylum vid he actually spent a good bit of time gushing over the game and not taking the piss. So I suppose since he had that reference there he didn't need to spend any time talking about what was good and he could just focus on being nit-picky and taking the piss.

President Bagel:
It's always good to buy games new, and help support the developers.

Yeah, but doesn't this sound a little hypocritical coming from a person who gets his games bought for him? I mean, I'm all for getting developers their money and I usually buy games first hand, but it's hard for most people, you know? Personally, I'd like to buy Rage, Deus Ex: Human Revolution and Saints Row: the Third and it'll probably be a year before I get to play them all.
And by then Syndicate and that new quantum physics puzzler of that Portal developer will be out and I've been keeping one eye on those as well.
Plus, you know, it's always better than piracy. Because the more revenue the store gets, the more opportunity they have to expand and that in turn lets them buy more games for the developers.

Yeah I remember that one, fun way to DRM unless some buying players on PC get it as well. Although that was fixed when I got it. Bought it on steam later on, because after I had played it I knew it was worth my money. I try not to buy too much into marketing. I remember Operation flashpoint had an even more devious DRM, first it would let you play 5 hours after you installed it, then CTD, the next time 2,5H and so on until you were only able to activate the game 5 min. at a time.

I was wandering around the Bowery and heard a NPC say - "What's next, Arkham County".

It's almost scary how little there is to critize about the Arkham games. In fact, my biggest concern is the same as yahtzee's. If it's true that there is going to be a third game, then where is that going to take place? Arkham City 2 just doesn't sound right. Sounds too much like Final Fantasy X 2 or Final Fantasy XIII 2.

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