No Right Answer: Who is Justice (Murderer Edition)

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Who is Justice (Murderer Edition)

There are people out there who feel they know right from wrong. They judge others in areas that often drift from simple black and white to shades of grey. And then they murder the heck out of those people. Watch our own judges judge...the judgers.

Watch Video

Justice without law is just petty revenge.
And I AM THE-... excuse me. I meant to say Judge Dredd is the law.
Therefore he is also justice.
Case closed.

I really like those debate, I usually dislike light but that one is great defense

I want a debate that resolve around who could be the greatest president

I agree with Kyle with this one eventhough I have read Deathnote but I've never had watch Dexter. The thing with Light is he's just a coward at heart as mention already Dexter can get his hand dirty in the name of justice while Light is using the Deathnote as his shield.

Also ha I thought with the title name and mentioning anime, I thought it was the character "Justice" from Afro Samurai.

Having watched and liked both Death Note and Dexter, I have to agree that Dexter is the better form of Justice. Light may be more effective, but he is also less moral. He claims to do things for the sake of justice, but in doing so undermines the very core of the justice system. He just kills indiscriminantly those who break the law, without giving them their fair trial and their chance for redemption. Dexter kills only those who have managed to escape the justice system, either by constantly evading it, subverting it throuugh the courts, or through forsakeing their chance at redemption. In a sense Dexter is the fairer form, giving those who harm others a chance for redemption. The only times he doesn`t do that he receives some form of punishment himself, teaching him each time what he must really strive for while also protecting those he cares for, while Light never learns what his mistakes bring him and is willing to seel his own family out to save his own skin.

Good job Kyle. Dexter is clearly the winner from your argument alone(seeing as how Iv never seen the show). But I think next time we have something anime related we get a judge other than Dan. Just for biasness sake.

As much as I like Death Note, I have to agree with the judgement. Light is not Justice, he's a whackball who thought he was doing the right thing, and in the end was killing lots of innocent people who were only upholding the law.

If anyone in that show is Justice, then it would have to be L.

Dang Chris, you need to step up your game man. Surely a better case can be made for Light Yagami than THAT.

Firefilm:
Who is Justice (Murderer Edition)

There are people out there who feel they know right from wrong. They judge others in areas that often drift from simple black and white to shades of grey. And then they murder the heck out of those people. Watch our own judges judge...the judgers.

Watch Video

I have a question about the questions

Do we ask them like

This Vs. That?
or do we ask them
What's the best blank?

Thanks.

image
THERE'S NO JUSTICE, THERE'S JUST US.

Mmm, I think Dan's anti-anime bias came into play here, but I still ultimately agree with the final judgement.

Problem with the Death Note in this argument is that Light becomes corrupted by it's power. And technically this is supposed to happen as the death god comes right out and says at the start that it's a cursed item and those that use it will find misfortune and death.

And while it was a good show I wasn't convinced with the writing for the transition period, as Light's corruption starts when he needlessly kills that FBI agent even when he evaded their suspicion, and followed that up by killing the other FBI agent who was his wife/girlfriend/lover.

So screw Light, when it comes to justice I'll take Dr. Tenma from Monster.

Dexter was in no way justice he was a sociopath that needed to justify his desire to murder and sure he had to live a double-life like batman but do you know what batman isn't? A sociopath who needs to justify his desire for murder.

Light also had to lead a double-life as well and it could be said that he made the ultimate sacrifice of losing his afterlife to attain his view of a utopia. Also when it comes to being 'justice' Dexter nails whatever criminals he can locate and does so in some cases by brutally destroying the bodies of those involved whereas Light finds multiple criminals and has been accepted.

Justice as an ideal needs to be accepted for it to work otherwise it's just vigilantism.

Lonely Swordsman:
Justice without law is just petty revenge.
And I AM THE-... excuse me. I meant to say Judge Dredd is the law.
Therefore he is also justice.
Case closed.

He agrees with you. :p

OT: Not watched Dexter...I've read Death Note. I liked Death Note, kinda rooting for him in the end aswell tbh. >.>

We can ask questions here aswell?

Anyways...I support that facebook comment I saw, who is the best debater. Chris for Kyle and Kyle for Chris. xD

How about John Wayne vs. Clint Eastwood? First thing that comes to mind right now.

vhalior from planescape torment, he is the physical manifestation of justice, he eats justice and shits out twice the amount of justice. he is a justice multiplier.

I choose V from V for Vendetta
Suggestion: Who is the best voice actor ever.

Kyle had better arguments...but he was wrong. Dexter has to kill and tries to justify his actions. Light chooses to kill in pursuit of justice.

One pursues justice and the other tries to use justice as an excuse.

Yay Kyle wins legitimately this time! Also Anime is stupid!

No Right Answer Argument Suggestion: Least child-appropriate childrens' cartoon ever.

Harbinger_:
Light also had to lead a double-life as well and it could be said that he made the ultimate sacrifice of losing his afterlife to attain his view of a utopia. Also when it comes to being 'justice' Dexter nails whatever criminals he can locate and does so in some cases by brutally destroying the bodies of those involved whereas Light finds multiple criminals and has been accepted.

No he didn't. The end of the series makes it very explicit that Light immediately caught on that Ryuk's line about about "not going to heaven or hell" was technically accurate but misleading. To be a bit more specific, the conclusion the story went with, and which Light recognized was that:

More on topic, I've got to say I'm a bit surprised that they didn't get into the strongest point in Light's favor: however abhorrent his motivations became, the system was actually doing exactly what he planned. As recognized by Near, Light's actions actually reduced crime rates by 70% worldwide and effectively stopped wars. The scale on which his actions affected the world was simply incredible, and he made use of that to not only envision but to actually implement global change. Effectiveness has to count for something.

Who is the best fictional lawyer?
Come on, there are so many crime and courtroom dramas to choose from.

Light Yagami clearly shouldve won.
You can talk about justice all you want, but when your jury is 300% Manga hating there is zero justice :(

Yea the defense for Light was bland and kinda half-assed. You failed to mention other things like his incredibly high intelligence and the fact that he could easily cause a far greater impact then Dexter ever could (and basically did).

Yea Dexter is great but the biased against anime could be seen from a mile away.

Asita:

Harbinger_:
Light also had to lead a double-life as well and it could be said that he made the ultimate sacrifice of losing his afterlife to attain his view of a utopia. Also when it comes to being 'justice' Dexter nails whatever criminals he can locate and does so in some cases by brutally destroying the bodies of those involved whereas Light finds multiple criminals and has been accepted.

No he didn't. The end of the series makes it very explicit that Light immediately caught on that Ryuk's line about about "not going to heaven or hell" was technically accurate but misleading. To be a bit more specific, the conclusion the story went with, and which Light recognized was that:

More on topic, I've got to say I'm a bit surprised that they didn't get into the strongest point in Light's favor: however abhorrent his motivations became, the system was actually doing exactly what he planned. As recognized by Near, Light's actions actually reduced crime rates by 70% worldwide and effectively stopped wars. The scale on which his actions affected the world was simply incredible, and he made use of that to not only envision but to actually implement global change. Effectiveness has to count for something.

As a person who believes in Heaven and hell and had only watched the anime I glossed over that part ;)

That is a very good point though that the system worked whereas Dexter has no pre-defined idea other than murder people I see doing bad stuff.

Who is the best Incompetent Villain? Invader Zim or Jack Spicer?

Dan's anime bashing got old several videos ago...

>:-(

- WHO IS JUSTICE?
- Batman.
- True. Thank you very much, folks, see you next week.

Also, Dan continues to be my favourite character.

Anyone else feel like the main reason DeathNote lost 1 to 4 was because it's an anime and the judge openly hates anime? I mean, at the end of the day, even though I like DeathNote better as a show, I would say that Dexter has a much better sense of justice and is the rightful winner, but that's the ONLY time I've seen a margin wider than +/-1.

Who is the better Australian?

itsausernamewhatofit:
Who is the best fictional lawyer?
Come on, there are so many crime and courtroom dramas to choose from.

Good one (though probably not as fun), I vote Jack McCoy.

What about Best fictional cop? (Human)

esperandote:

itsausernamewhatofit:
Who is the best fictional lawyer?
Come on, there are so many crime and courtroom dramas to choose from.

Good one (though probably not as fun), I vote Jack McCoy.

image

Death Note Sux, Kyle and cameraman are kewl, that is all.

Kojiro ftt:
Dan's anime bashing got old several videos ago...

>:-(

As you can express your fondness of it, so can others express their dislike of it. Anime is like hollywood, mostly shitty.

Chris really dropped the ball on defending Light as Justice because he just kept saying KIRA IS JUSTICE!

Firefilm:
Who is Justice (Murderer Edition)

There are people out there who feel they know right from wrong. They judge others in areas that often drift from simple black and white to shades of grey. And then they murder the heck out of those people. Watch our own judges judge...the judgers.

Watch Video

.. Usually I admire your guy's arguments and I love this show- but this particular episode sort of brushed me the wrong way. Not only was the judge biased against anime itself, but EVEN the opponent Dan states "Anime is stupid" spite not being the exact words.

In debates, or ideals that differ from one another... it's never a good thing to bring down someone's belief. As much as I love a cartoon dealing with ponies (yep), I am also a big fan of anime. I've seen mainly all the episodes of Death Note and there was a lot that Chris did not cover that could of gained him points (which I doubt since the show hates anime for some reason.)

Along those lines, the score bar was very unfair. 1 to 4? As much as I usually root for Dan to win at times because he always picks the more challenging people/characters/topics to defend, this went into his favor on a large flaming scale. There were even 1-2 points that Chris brought up that should of given him a point, but it never was granted to him while almost everything Dan said was automatically given him a point.

Doesn't matter who would of won, Dexter does seem to lean more on the justice side while Light was turning into the very thing he despised all along from the start- however, this was not a fair debate to begin with (also going to bring up that Chris blew it at the end, making the debate seem like a joke with 'Kira is Justice!' Which wouldn't do the debate any good). Not even sure why I am so opposed to all of this, yet it aggravates me that anime was brushed out of the way clearly for the sake of hatred towards it. Just because you may not like a category or certain theme doesn't give anyone a right to shoot it in the foot (unless it's pretty disturbing or serious in society but this isn't the case.)

Please, consider all things to be worth fighting for. I'll continue to watch this episode because I do enjoy it while learning much about the points given left and right... but this was a bad impression overall. Light deserved more credit, and especially from the judge who is suppose to be the 'blind justice' that gives points when deserved. Hope my words don't go to waste and Dexter does win the title since he stands true to his moral- but he doesn't deserve 3 points more over Light since Light had caused the World to behave in fear of justice striking the wicked (even though later on that becomes a mad teen killing off innocent people who stand in his way.)

kwagamon:
Anyone else feel like the main reason DeathNote lost 1 to 4 was because it's an anime and the judge openly hates anime? I mean, at the end of the day, even though I like DeathNote better as a show, I would say that Dexter has a much better sense of justice and is the rightful winner, but that's the ONLY time I've seen a margin wider than +/-1.

May have been a contributing factor, but I'm more inclined to say that the argument in favor of Light just wasn't up to snuff. I mean, let's give a synopsis of points that could have worked for the side, both in terms of setting up decent discussion on what does or does not qualify as justice and as things that give Light credit.

1) Light was the son of a detective, en route to becoming a detective himself (Mangaka ostensibly stated that had he not found the Death Note, Light would have become one of the greatest detectives in the world), capable of matching wits with the actual greatest detective in the world.

2) He was already a highly accomplished individual before he found the Death Note. Academically he was considered one of the smartest students in the nation, and in terms of police work he had already helped to solve several cases for the police. From the get-go he's basically an ideal character to represent the concept of justice, which is part of what makes his morally questionable methods so tragic.

3) Light was very capable of predicting the reactions of the public, to the extent that his plan revolved around those reactions. To the public, the hand of god would appear to be smiting the wicked, and that was his greatest weapon. People would support the actions due to their apparent divine nature and because of how those actions targeted those who 'deserved' divine retribution. At the same time, those inclined to do evil would know that they were doing so in a world where a supernatural force could and likely would target them for those actions, making them far less inclined to do so in the first place.

4) Let's look at the characters' goals for a minute. why do the two kill? Now, granted, I've never seen Dexter, so my interpretation may not be accurate, but my understanding is that he was recognized as a budding serial killer and was [secretly] taught to direct those homicidal tendencies towards those who deserve it. Now, the end result with both Dexter and Light is "bad guys get murdered", ostensibly putting them on equal moral ground in that regard. To that end, motive becomes a very important factor. Assuming I wasn't mistaken in my interpretation of Dexter (and again, having never seen the show, I very well could be), he kills because he actually enjoys killing. Conversely, we have Light, who is horrified when he first realizes that the Death Note actually works. He resolves to keep killing because he believes the world is rotting and needs cleansing. He convinces himself to use the death note for the sake of changing the world for the better. You can see the epiphany itself here:

5) It worked (repetition of my prior post). According to Near, Light's actions reduced global crime rates by 70%, and effectively ended wars. That's not just effective, that's downright incredible (and as a debate point: That's the kind of effect that Dexter could never match). And again, that was the entire point of his actions in the first place. He saw the world as needing change, worked to implement that change, and succeeded on a global scale.

Now, while I don't know if those would have won the debate, I think they are much stronger points than what was supplied for the character.

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