The Big Picture: Science!

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MovieBob:
Science!

Hey, science guys, we need you to answer a few questions.

Watch Video

Okay; one by one:

Jetpack:

image

Pobably as good as you're going to get in earth's gravity Bob. Sorry.

Cultured meat:
image
Cultured meat is currently prohibitively expensive, but it is anticipated that the cost could be reduced to about twice that of conventionally produced meat.

Hmm only twice as expensive as raising cattle for something that is currently only worth putting into sausages and hamburgers. :S

The economics involved suggest that cultured meat will only be commercially viable when grain becomes prohibitively expensive to feed to feed to animals. When that happens I think well have hunger problems more important than where your next steak is coming from.

These will probably be solved by some sort of algal/krill farming. Crab sticks anyone?

Space:
image

Okay good suggestion. Though I hesitate as to whether I want oil republicans in space. It is possible that there are fossil fuels on Mars as a result of possible life on Mars in previous geological ages.

The reasons against doing this are going to be again. Prohibitive expense. Especially when you compare it to offshore drilling/fracking/tar sands.

And if we get to Mars to exploit this hypothetical oil then it is far more likely to be used to produce value added plastics or other petroleum derivatives on Mars surface than to be expensively shipped out of the Martian Gravity well to earth.

A more likely location for off world mining is the moon probably in search of rare earths, noble metals and other high value ore.

Breeding bears:
image

If you want to go corral a bunch of bears and breed them over their 4 year breeding cycle go nuts; I'll read about you being eaten on the news. Simple answer too much labour for too little utility.

I found it quite hilarious when Bob said he would totally keep "his jetpack" a secret if he was given one. I imagine he would be able to keep it a secret....for about five seconds (which is about the same as anybody given a motherfucking jet pack). I also have to confess I got a tiny guilty chuckle out of imagining somebody of Bob's...erm...physique....flying around with a jetpack on his back.

As for Bob wondering why animal rights activists aren't campaigning for cultured meat....really? He's wondering why a group of people populated by a considerable number of misinformed, irrational and sometimes balls-out crazy fucksticks isn't doing something logical and intelligent???

And finally, fuck the assholes who decided to breed tiny dogs. Don't get me wrong, I love dogs...of most sizes. It's the extremes I have trouble with. Extremely large dogs (e.g. Great Danes) tend to make me nervous and tiny dogs usually annoy the piss out of me.

I think I speak for everyone (except the vegans) when I say, I would love to be flying around Mars on my jetpack while eating a cultured meat hamburger, with my hambear companion sitting on my shoulder squeak-roaring in delight.

I think every important response has more or less been made after reading 2 pages, but I already logged in just in case, so I may as well add my 2 cents (that's a weird expression).

I hope you actually read all your comments like you said, Bob, because with a thread this long, I usually assume nobody will read my post and pass by.

It seems to me that the only really serious question you raised in why we aren't using cultured meat. People have already responded the present problems, and people have said that if we put money into it, it will be economically viable in the future.

So here's what I would like to add, which may have been said on one of the pages beyond page 2. I suspect you already know this, but either did not think about it or don't care or just decided to leave it out of the video or have a counterpoint.

Maybe we could make cultured meat economically viable, and maybe it has all sorts of advantages, but any money we put toward it is taken away from somewhere else. Maybe shoving tons of money into that area of research isn't the best way to use the world's resources. Maybe it is a good idea, but I'm just saying that the opposite might be true.

I was considering saying that the free market would be putting more money into cultured meat if it were the best use of that money, or at least it would tend toward the right amount of money over time or approximate it. But then again, there are all sorts of situations where free market doesn't work (ignoring the fact that humans aren't entirely rational) like tragedy of the commons. I don't really know exactly which category this falls into.

Also, yes, this argument could be used for just about anything. I'm just bringing it up.

This got awfully long. I'm not sure if anybody will actually read this. 2 cents. There you go.

Urh:

As for Bob wondering why animal rights activists aren't campaigning for cultured meat....really? He's wondering why a group of people populated by a considerable number of misinformed, irrational and sometimes balls-out crazy fucksticks isn't doing something logical and intelligent???

I'd be astonished if it wasn't already noted on the other 8 pages that peta is actually all about cultured meat.

And so am i.

Disclaimer:

What you will get with cultured meat will most assuredly NOT BE MEAT. It will be a cultured, gelatinous tissue. So much of the flavor and texture of meat comes from the way the animal moves.. it will take a long time to develop the technology to include connective tissue and marbling.

Which as Bob mentions, could be perfect for burgers off the dollar menu.

Also, bobbybear, i'm a little dissapointed in you. Come on, jetpacks? You gotta burn fuel to fly, and you simply can't carry enough fuel on your back to fly very far. So until we develop magic fuel, no practical jetpacks. You can demo the regular ones for a lot of money though, so have fun! :D

Jet packs:
They exist. Just more in a "hover pack" way rather than a "jet pack" way. Putting a real jet pack on your back would cause the exhaust to set fire to your legs. Also incredibly extravagant as far as fuel usage/cost is concerned and an all round shitty mode of transport anyway. Use legs. They get you places.

Cultured meat:
Really expensive, really unrefined and huge ethics roadblocks. Cultured meat doesn't result in tasty steaks. It results in blobs of meat like protein. Besides, having the right proteins doesn't equate to having the right taste. Also, hella expensive. Again. You can't feed the third world on this stuff. You can grow it in a lab and dispose of it because its unsafe for human consumption.

Space:
Scientific fraud is... a huge deal. If people are found to lie about things, they get ostracised by the community in a pretty enormous way. Its even happened to Nobel prize winners. Space isn't a big priority right now, because its unfeasible (read: difficult) to get there with current technology. The world isn't in apocalyptic danger so there's no rush.

Mini-animals:
There are naturally small breeds of dog. There aren't naturally small breeds of bear (at least not the grizzly bear style bear). But yes, you are quite correct in postulating that an ankle height hippo named "Slaps" would be incredibly awesome. It's just not feasible.

thiosk:

I'd be astonished if it wasn't already noted on the other 8 pages that peta is actually all about cultured meat.

And so am i.

At first I thought "Wow, the first thing to come from PETA that I agree with." Then I read PETA's press statement on its million-dollar in-vitro meat prize. It's a fucking joke. They've deliberately set the bar impossibly high, to the point where I can't help but call bullshit. They're offering a one million dollar prize, but the cost of meeting their criteria would likely run into the tens of millions. Furthermore, there probably aren't that many scientists and engineers who in their right mind would strive to win a prize from PETA. Sure, it's a million dollars, but they're batshit crazy dollars. Then again, if someone were to win, PETA would be down a million dollars, and that can only be a good thing. Quite the dilemma...

HE BLINDED ME......WITH SCIENCE!

and puppies, dawww.

Sylveria:
The cultured meat is all well and good, but instead of having the dirty, emaciated, hippies protesting Mc Ribs, you'd have massive christian organizations telling them to stop playing God. Personally, I think the hippies are less bothersome and easier get around since they're all sickly and hungry from never eating actual food.

So are you saying we should just not make any sort of scientific progress that might offend Christians? Christians already had their turn at running this place, it's called the dark ages. I say let them bitch and whine all they want, their ridiculous ancient beliefs should no longer be allowed to hold back progress for mankind.

Epic as always bob, but surprised that you did not mention Thorium, given you past shows that seems exactly the type of thing you would complain about.

MB202:

RadiusXd:

MB202:
Wow... This episode was AWFUL! Bob really came off as a big dick in this episode. I mean, there was some stuff in the middle, but most of it made me want to punch Bob for being so immature about these things.

not sure if trolling.....

FYI, I never troll. I think trolling is stupid and wrong,a nd I don't see any enjoyment in purposefully pissing people off. What I said there was what I meant, I really don't like this episode, because Bob's demands from science came off as really piffy.

Not that it matters, this show is LITERALLY about saying whatever he wants to say, so I can't really fault him here for saying what's on his mind. I just think it's really stupid.

I was under the impression bob was just fooling around and doesn't expect anyone to take his requests seriously.....

EDIT: except for perhaps the cultured meat, but I immediately dismissed that as impractical for now. we already have a biological machine that produces beef with minimal upkeep and also provides fancy couch surfacing. it's called a cow.

The only way we'll ever get to live in space is when Earth is no longer capable of sustaining the life of the richest countries.

Water/Ice have already been found on other planets, and since we know how to allow plants to grow in space, one of the only major problems left is how we transport enough materials out there in a resonable amount of time. Just think of how long they have been adding components to that international space station.

it has probably already been mentioned but anyway.
Bob is making the classic mistake of assuming people are rational and or logical beings.
They are not.

Reminds me of an old duck tales comic where astronauts did discover gold on the moon. It was followed by a mad rush as anyone who could scrape together enough parts flew up...

Though it ended as all mining booms do, with traders selling supplies at inflated prices...

You're gonna have to do a lot better than oil. There's no way a trip to mars and back for X kilograms worth of oil will cost less than X kilograms of fuel.

Once they can get a stable fusion reactor using Helium 3, we can justify going to the moon though. Much more energy per kg, and we don't even have to lie, the stuff is really there.

And cultured meat isn't big for the same reason organic meat isn't: Too expensive. Plus, even if it manages to be made perfectly, how much would you wanna bet that food-snobs still insist you can taste the difference, and a large number of ludites wouldn't trust the stuff?

Credible scientists (the ones that matter) never lie professionally. Ever. That's the whole point of science.

They can fudge, though, but that's different.

So... this one time, The Escapist Community criticized MovieBob for taking an episode too far, when Yahtzee does one every week. To be honest, I've asked myself all these questions, not given myself any answers, but really, where's my jetpack, Enterprise, hambear, and grown meat that I can share with starving children?

Screw vat meats, I would much rather eat something that was killed for my dinner, over something that was never alive to begin with.

ElectricMegaHamstah:

kingmob:
I'm actually a 'space guy' and in my daily work the biggest problem is that not all those in 'team science' are in it for this reason :\ Seriously, a surprising number of people is in it for the paycheck and the tax benefits (I train astronauts).
Depressing? I know...

But I will consider your input for the next discussion ;)

My GOD You have the best job ever...

No, that would be being an actual astronaut sigh (one can dream).

Sofus:
The only way we'll ever get to live in space is when Earth is no longer capable of sustaining the life of the richest countries.

Water/Ice have already been found on other planets, and since we know how to allow plants to grow in space, one of the only major problems left is how we transport enough materials out there in a resonable amount of time. Just think of how long they have been adding components to that international space station.

step 1: space elevator

step 2: make great big ol forges on the moon (magnets for faster forging).

step 3: take advantage of low gravity and friction to launch our new monolithic spaceships (or assemble in lunar orbit)

step 4: journey to mars and beyond.

step 5: ????

newguy77:

Deverfro:
Where is that first jetpack image from? 0:32

I'm pretty sure it's from The Rocketeer, a movie where a guy gets a jetpack and has to keep it away from Nazis.
EDIT: I'm about 99.9% sure it's from The Rocketeer, looking at the IMDb page.

OT: But cultured meat would taste like despair. Oh I hope someone gets that reference.

Im sure someone has already said this but Better off Ted

1. Cultured meat

While this is a very good idea I suspect that in the short to medium term it will not take off. The promary problem will be that intially the product will be more expensive per unit that natural meat from animal (there is the cost of development to pay off, compared to animals with no additional cost apart from rearing). I will admit that this problem will probadly lessen as development reduces the costs. The far biggest problem would be its public image, would people want to eat artifical meat? especially if it doesn't taste or feel exactly like what its suppost to be?

2. Space travel

yuh1

While the idea would be inpractical, a smiliar "gold rush" concept for the devolopment of space infrastructure has been suggested.

In truth we could probadly build a new fully reusable high capacity launch system and orbital vechile (A bigger version of the space shuttle). But when he had built it we would have a white elphant since we wouldn't need the capacity to launch such volume of objects in orbit. Disposible launch vechiles are for the moment economically affordable so there is not need to develop anymore resusable vechiles.

Anyway high speed interplanetary (earth to mars)would require high power eletric drives (fusion powered) that we lacked the basic technolgy at the moment to devolope, let alone use in practice.

For those who wish to understand the problems of realistic space craft go to Atomic Rockets at http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/ and the Rocketpunk Manifesto at http://www.rocketpunk-manifesto.com/

Oh come on, if they can't even sell vegetables with a few gene strands knocked out to endure cold weather there's no chance in hell they can sell cultured meat.

Once again Bob Chipman asks all the right questions.

Has it occurred to anyone else that more and more people use the word "Science" like people use to use the word "Magic"?

KingPiccolOwned:

Nicolaus99:

Google "Frankenfood". Good luck marketing THAT to people or convincing a grocery store to stock it.

He already did, and made a video about it. I suggest that you check his archives.

And that episode was awful. He didn't understand anything he was talking about, did not present any of the inherent dangers and painted people with opposing opinions to be paranoid luddites tantamount to torch-wielding villagers. If he'd have done his research instead of waving his church of science banner blindly he'd have seen GMOD foods raise legitimate concerns mostly centered around their environmental and economic impacts. NOT, as he presumed, when you eat them. But that is Bob, a large man full of hot air. It's not that I don't agree with him somewhat a lot of the time, his intentions are good, but the arguments he uses are often angry, flawed and ignorant. And those same opinions are parroted by people who don't know any better, which ruins all chance for rational discussion as the ripples travel outwards. I don't know how many GMOD discussions I've been in where somebody comes in and goes "Carrots, lol! BOB said so!" But you know what, anger sells these days and he seems to be doing well from it so why's he gonna listen to me? He hasn't yet. By the same token why should the powers that be care what he says?

I am at present rolling my eyes at his talk of culturing meat.

Scarim Coral:
Well I can assume the people who think genetic engineer fruits and vegetables are a abomination mention ages ago on The Big Picture will think growing meat from cells is also a abomination even when there no killing animal involves (what can I say they are narrow minded people).

You can have your objections without using the word "abomination", you know. There are other, perfectly legitimate words. Try "Cross species barriers", "monsanto" or "genetic drift" out some time.

A Movie Bob is what science needs!
Right now there is a surplus of mad doctors and/or meek ones that want to make just one Modern Prometheus at a time. We need action. We need a man to get things done! I want to borrow your jet pack. Let's get this thing moving!

ReiverCorrupter:

brazuca:
The meat "problem" is not a science problem, it's a capitalism problem. Also the hunger in Africa is a capitalism problem (with more deep historical implications). We the 7 billion humans already produce more food than we actually need.

Don't kid yourself, it's a human greed problem. Did you forget that communism had its shot too? It failed because it didn't account for the greed and incompetence of bureaucrats. Capitalism is hardly perfect but it functions because it expects people to be greedy. The form of government or economic complex hardly matters, you'd have to change human nature itself.

I meant in the contest of harvesting artificial meat (much more expensive). I mean thinking that creating meat in a lab can solve hunger is naive. It is a capitalism problem as the much "easier" solution is the cheap one. And no URSS by definition was not communism, as if you ever go to history class (college degree level) they will teach you that URSS was a state capitalism (whatever that is).

Gluzzbung:
Hate to say it, but the reason we're still on Earth is because any type of bacteria on another planet would kill everyone it touched, most likely.

Really? REALLY? You think the only reason we haven't developed space travel is because we're afraid of something we can't see? Why not worry about our souls being anchored to earth and traveling too far ripping it from our bodies leaving us soulless reavers or what about if the first hyperspace jump transforms the whole of the human race into giant jelly penises. Is bacteria really the best unfounded fear you could come up with to keep us from researching space travel?

"That's it, everybody. Pack it up and go home. Apparently there's a chance we might find a deadly space bacteria out there and we just can't take that risk."

MB202:
Also, about jetpacks, how are you going to solve the problem of having your pants and underpants burned off?

With SCIENCE. Duh.

MB202:

Father Time:

Not all Jetpacks need to shoot fire, just something that can provide lift.

How's that work?

The Rocketter says alcohol based fuel is the key. Start looking there.

Father Time is right. Thrust does not necessarily mean fire. However thrust is often accompanied by fire because the mechanisms for delivering enough trust to counteract gravity generates a lot of heat. But it's not the heat that gets your butt off the ground. It's thr-r-r-r-r-ust.

Actually the bigger question is of fuel. Traditional fuel is heavy (and expensive). Once you make a jetpack big enough to carry enough fuel to keep you airborn long enough you end up with a small fighter jet. However if we could figure out a fuel source that packs a lot of thrust for a little weight and was preferably renewable we could get a person in the air without a whole jet around them. If it was renewable in flight, that would be even better. We'd never need to land.

oktalist:

Nicolaus99:
2: Back to including your liberal politics, on a website called "The Escapist". Irony fail.

What irony? Please explain.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escapism

If that does not clarify it for you, nothing will.

I particularly like the entry's opening statement: Escapism is mental diversion by means of entertainment or recreation, as an "escape" from the perceived unpleasant or banal aspects of daily life. It can also be used as a term to define the actions people take to help relieve persisting feelings of depression or general sadness.

Ukomba:
Has it occurred to anyone else that more and more people use the word "Science" like people use to use the word "Magic"?

Personally, Iīm not sure whether to be kind of happy or kind of angry about that.
I mean on the one hand, it implies a certain amount of trust and faith in the power of science and a realization of just how important it is. On the other hands, some people seem to now genuinely believe that the only reason scientists havenīt done X (whereas X can be anything from curing cancer to building a blowjob dispensing anti-gravity device) is due to greed, lazyness or general corruption.
Okay, wait. I have figured out how I feel about this.
Itīs definitly "kind of angry".

Hey, mankind? you know we're friends right?

Could you do me a favor?

Here we go: Can you stop using nations to keep your species separated and fuels the war industry with money we could spend on more productive stuff like science and ending the world hunger, I would totally like you more for that!

Hey, mankind? you know we're friends right?

Could you do me a favour?

Here we go: Can you stop using nations to keep your species separated and fuels the war industry with money we could spend on more productive stuff like science and ending the world hunger, I would totally like you more for that!

Beg my apologies for the double post.

RadiusXd:

MB202:

RadiusXd:

not sure if trolling.....

FYI, I never troll. I think trolling is stupid and wrong,a nd I don't see any enjoyment in purposefully pissing people off. What I said there was what I meant, I really don't like this episode, because Bob's demands from science came off as really piffy.

Not that it matters, this show is LITERALLY about saying whatever he wants to say, so I can't really fault him here for saying what's on his mind. I just think it's really stupid.

I was under the impression bob was just fooling around and doesn't expect anyone to take his requests seriously.....

EDIT: except for perhaps the cultured meat, but I immediately dismissed that as impractical for now. we already have a biological machine that produces beef with minimal upkeep and also provides fancy couch surfacing. it's called a cow.

I kind of got some of that around the time he said he intended to shit down people's chimney's, but it was still pretty distracting. Not to mention, I wasn't sure if he really meant for people to lie about oil on Mars just so we can move there. And there's no guarantee that we'll meet any green alien ladies, and even LESS of a guarantee that they'd find him attractive. Again, that might have been one of his sarcastic moments, but given how (pathetically, IMO) obsessed with sex Bob is, I'm not so sure.

Golan Trevize:

M-JN:
I suspect people have already mentioned, but PETA actually offered a million dollars to the first company who can make in vitro meat as tasty and satisfying to eat as animal meat. Best thing they've ever done, imo.

Just a million? No wonder nobody gives a crap.

Hey, when you have to beg and fight and discretely give handjobs for every dime of your grant money, you take what you can get.

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