Jimquisition: Hate Out Of Ten

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Hate Out Of Ten

Review controversies are nothing new, but things went from bad to worse this year with gamers going crazy every time a major title got scored by various outlets. The "Year of Threes" have created more high profile titles than ever, and spawned more insane fanboys than the world knows what to do with. Even worse, the review score system has gotten so thoroughly screwed that 8/10 just doesn't cut it anymore. It's now become Hate/10.

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Excellent summary there at the end with the nine thing.
My feelings exactly.

This is all well and good, but we all know that Jim is more likely to drop his obnoxious Jimquisition persona than for idiot fanboys to finally grasp that reviews are not a duty to the producer- but a set of numbers based on one person's opinion. This overinflated nonsense of all tens all the time will probably not go away for awhile.

Please prove me wrong...
Please.

Yeah I agree completely. I've seen people complain about games getting 8 too much lately. Then there's those who complain about too many tens. I hate them both equally...

And there is the root cause of most Escapists being Escapists rather than being in the slew of other review sites.

While i forsee that not many people who are not part of the Escapist will see this video and of them even less will care about it, it raises some extremely good arguments.

Good points. And on the Uncharted front, allow me to mention once more the insanity of the G4 review by Adam Sessler. A 4/5 and the comment board went nuts.

ya no sorry, i watched the first episode and didnt like it. thought maybe i'd give jim another try, but NOPE i still cant watch this guy's videos. i just dont like him

I give that video 8 out of 10...

Seriously, though all review sites need to do a rating reset. With what would have been a 10 now being a 7 out of 10.

These have been exactly my feelings for sometime lately: 10/10 has become a meaningless milestone. Either we are living in the absolute golden age of gaming, where everything created is on par with the works of Michelangelo and Rembrandt, or that we've gone way too overboard with fanboyism and marked even the most average of games a 10/10 simply because it's a game we appreciate, of if we like the developer.

Yeah, it's getting pretty sad. I saw someone complaining about Skyrim not getting higher than a 9 on Gamespot. They said that Gamespot received more "compensation" from Dark Souls and thus a higher score (9.5). WTF?!

Soviet Heavy:
Good points. And on the Uncharted front, allow me to mention once more the insanity of the G4 review by Adam Sessler. A 4/5 and the comment board went nuts.

Here's his response to the comments, if you haven't already watched it.

http://www.g4tv.com/videos/55954/sesslers-soapbox-i-hate-numbers/

Who fucking cares? Seriously, this has gotten ridiculous. Between the bitching about scores and those bitching at those who score bitch, video game score reviews get entirely too much attention and press. People like Jim Sterling make it a big deal, causing developers and publishers to actually notice such things.

Thank God for Jim doing this episode, it's something that really needs to be addressed more often, Adam Sessler is the only other person I can recall commenting on this in recent memory.

It reminds me of when I was on the bus the other day and I heard a group of high school students going on for about 20 minutes (I got off the bus at that point) on the "low score" that Uncharted 3 got and all I could think was if they cared as much about their grades as they did the reviews, and not just them but all students, we could easily solve this health care professional shortage here in Canada.

Ties in nicely with: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/3607-Metacritic-Isnt-the-Problem

OT: It all goes back to fans who need some sort of "objective" proof that a game they love is indeed a masterpiece. The problem is when fans forget that numbers =/= objective data. Subjective reviews will always lead to subjective scores.

yea i agree when i see a 7/10 or 8/10 score i think that's a great score maybe i'll try that game. a 10 means perfect, and i get that a game might seem perfect to someone.but still perfection is something humans have been striving for for generations. and suddenly reviewers are popping out 10's like rabbits.

Normally I think of review numbers as a summary of that reviewer's thoughts on the game. I prefer to read these reviews as a different perspective on the game from my own so I could form my own opinion on the game. MovieBob may say Zelda or Mario great games, Or Yahtzee may enjoy the platforming fluidity of a "Prince of Persia" game on the previous consoles--but I just have my own tastes in genres and hardly care for platformer or action/adventure games.

But...Damn...This kind of behavior comes up when a person's opinion on your "perfect" game is not the same as your own? How dare they give it below 10 when in your mind its a 10? I wonder if this is connected to that "Anonymous Fuckwad Theory" Penny Arcade hypothesized. >.>

Good episode, Jim.

gigastar:
And there is the root cause of most Escapists being Escapists rather than being in the slew of other review sites.

While i forsee that not many people not part of the Escapist wont see this video and of them even less will care about it, it raises some extremely good arguments.

Not only don't the Escapist hand out 5 stars cheaply, they also have a very reasonable and clear definition of what their scores actually mean.

Five stars. This is as good as gaming currently gets, the crème de la crème. This doesn't imply perfection, merely that the experience you'll have will be exceptionally enjoyable.

Good stuff, Jim. I never understood why some people can't wrap their heads around the notion that someone's opinion may be different from theirs, but we need to shut those assholes up.

As with all things, ther is a trope for that.

Good episode, Jim.

you could always solve the problem by giving games deserving of an 8 a 10 out of 12 and I know that is 0.8333

This is why, as a critic of comic books and manga, I refuse to assign a numbered score. Besides it being unnecessary and prone to undermining a complex opinion, scores can so easily become inflated beyond normal proportions. After all, scores are merely an arbitrary metric for quantifying an opinion a critic has for a particular work. Arbirary and subjective.

There's a critic out there by the name Angry Joe (at Blistered Thumbs, check him out) whose scoring system actually makes 5 out of ten an average game. And that was such a breath of fresh air. It means there can be greater stratas of good, and a Perfect 10/10 (something I don't think he's given yet) is a pretty big deal.

Critics that use scores, you need to put your foot down and start being more critical. And stop handing out 10s like they're coupons for an extra burger with an order of fries and a drink at Whataburger. Tens mean that the game is perfect, and goes well beyond the call of duty when it comes to being a fun, engaging, and enriching experience. If you're going to use a score, make sure it matters.

"If your reviews consistently differ from the rest of the community, then you are not fit for your job"

Oh my god. Who wrote that? Who wrote that and didn't have their brain explode? The point of a review is to offer your own personal individual opinion on something. If you write a review merely to agree with the rest of the community, THAT is when you are not fit for the job. Because that is when you are NOT reviewing and just spewing forth utter bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0waGDZVCagQ
skip till about 3:50 (if you don't want to watch the episode :P) till about 4:00 and that is my reaction to the 9 out of 10 comment

It's about time someone called the gamer meteoritic bombers. but then again any attempt to point out the stupidity of others will just be all for nought by the fact that their stupidity is on a level of such a high scale.

In all seriousness Jim's right this is becoming a problem, and if were not careful it'll be gamers not publishers responsible for another fricking crash.. although i don't know why N4G gets a lot of his hate. i wish he would show some examples and then i would be in a position to agree.

Rating aggregates like metacritic have made scoring games more of about the majority opinion than about a critics actual opinion. The players and website members feed into this as well, so we're to blame just as much as the reviewers who feed into it are.

Anyone remember Crispy Gamer? Back before they gutted their (talented) review team? They never used rating systems. Just stated their opinion and left the reader to discern for themselves.

They couldn't join metacritic though.

And I noticed yesterday The Escapist is now on metacritic. Hmm...

Does gaming have its "true" critics yet though. Any of you guys out there actually relate and TRUST anyone who reviews games?

I've got a few (Scott Jones!) but I'm just wondering, can anyone name names? Or do you guys just load up the review page, look at the score and then post comments based on the flat number?

Ok, I admit it... I'm starting to become a fan of this show... It took losing EC and having that time gap to fill during my lunch, but it's growing on me.

And I agree, with everything said. And laugh evertime someone rants over an 8, or heck, even a 7, which i tend to read as being "good".

And WHY... please explain to me, because i really don't understand, why do gamers even CARE about the game score... I'm honestly at a lose, i don't understand why it matters to people. I don't know, maybe being a older person who grew up loving all the movies that critics seemed to hate altered my view of critics in general, but game score have never ment a darn thing to me. Not ONCE has a review of ANY kind prevented me from playing or watching something i wanted too...

And I always assumed most people worked the same way, it honestly supprses me that anyone would be swayed in any way by a review.

Giest4life:

gigastar:
And there is the root cause of most Escapists being Escapists rather than being in the slew of other review sites.

While i forsee that not many people not part of the Escapist wont see this video and of them even less will care about it, it raises some extremely good arguments.

Not only don't the Escapist hand out 5 stars cheaply, they also have a very reasonable and clear definition of what their scores actually mean.

Five stars. This is as good as gaming currently gets, the crème de la crème. This doesn't imply perfection, merely that the experience you'll have will be exceptionally enjoyable.

Im aware of that page and have seen it before. What i meant about reviews on the Escapist was the comment threads, which are not bathed in the flames of fanboys just because a game is not perfect when the fans think it is.

And with the addition of (X)-and-a-half-star scores that page needs touching up.

It's hard to please gamers nowadays. I see people on sites such as Gamespot, Gametrailers, IGN (being the highest on my book), YouTube, etc. complaining on how a 8 is not a good score and compare it to other site that gave it a higher score. Thank god I don't take score seriously to post stuff like this on forums. I just keep it to myself to save myself from looking like a a-hole on the internet. Even if the score of the game is lower than a 8 (case in point, Pokemon Black/White getting a 7.5 on Gamespot), I just ignore the score and enjoy the game. And to this day, I'm still playing it (I just played Pokemon Black a few minutes ago).

At the end, gamers are just selfish people.

I remember the Kane and Lynch fiasco way back in 06' when a Gamespot reviewer was fired for giving the game a bad score. I played only the demo and it wasn't so bad but the controls and gunplay were shoddy when compared to an otherwise interesting story. I used to follow the review system but stopped because I realized that when all is said and done it is really up to me to decide whether or not I like a game despite what reviewers say. The sooner people understand that their OWN OPINION is what really matters the better.

Called this years ago.

Plus, the 1-10 scoring system is silly. At the least it should be marked out of 100. There's too much variation between say 80 and 89 for it to be averaged into an 8.

Still, having said that. Batman was probably deserving of a 9 in all fairness. Or atleast a high 80. That's one of the games I would rank near perfection.

It's all because reviewers don't have the stones to give an average game an average score. So when NBA get's a 9... and Rage get's an 8... It's confusing.

I was onboard with him until he said he gave Arkham City an 8.5. OMG! How DARE you give a game I haven't played such a nasty score in a review I (probably) didn't read!

But seriously, I saw this coming back when the PS2 was still a relatively new thing. Don't point your fingers at everyone, I've been mocking score inflation for around a decade now. I'm glad to have you johnny-come-lately folks onboard, but this has been a problem for a long time.

Link XL1:
ya no sorry, i watched the first episode and didnt like it. thought maybe i'd give jim another try, but NOPE i still cant watch this guy's videos. i just dont like him

Does that mean you're giving him an 8/10?

I can only remember one review that really pissed me off and it wasn't the number that it got, it was one of the things the review mentioned, it said that the game had bad graphics, specifically it said this game had bad graphics
image image
That is a shot from kings bounty: the armored princess, the only way you can say that is bad graphics is if your so shallow you need every little fucken thing to be bump mapped out the ass.

Wow, I actually get to agree without equivocation for once. It is ridiculous that anyone should give reviewers grief for using more than the highest 20% (or less!) of a grading scale. Reviewers don't owe anyone to be consistent with the marks on Metacritic; they only need to be internally consistent (and, ideally, consistent with the grading within their publication.) As pressure mounts to give every triple-A game a 9 or a 10, we should recognize the value of those critics who are willing to give 7s and 6s (and lower) more, not less. We who have limited budgets and limited amounts of time to devote to games (and that is everyone, yes?) ought to be glad for a critical response that actually gives us some insight to flaws that may make one gaming experience less worth our time than another, rather than licking publishers' boots out of fear of reprisal (even if that reprisal doesn't come from the publishers or devs themselves.)

Heck, maybe some of us could stand to actually read reviews now and again, rather than just look for aggregate scores... Though if pressure is placed to give those 9s and 10s, again, we're less likely to see reviews that have any meat to them, because critics will feel compelled to write "towards" the rating they "have" to give.

Lots of good points, but I do need to point something out. In the frame of reference of most people reading reviews, 8 out of 10 is a B-. That's slightly better then an average, phone it in slackers grade. And I'm not totally aware of where grade inflation is these days.Demanding perfect scores is ridiculous, but using a standardized metric, review scores arn't THAT bad.

Yeah, number scores are pretty stupid. Boiling down an entire experience and opinion to a number is insane but most people don't want to sit and read the whole review.

Though the real pain in the ass is the decimal systems. Just what the hell is the difference between a 8.5 and a 9? What's the .5 of a difference?

Shouldn't the average be like... 5 or something that?

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