Jimquisition: Hate Out Of Ten

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Good points Jim, but don't pop a blood vessel.

The criteria for a 'good game' is way too general when gaming media does a review; since we base the value of a game by how entertaining it is, most attempts to divide game aspects (sound, graphics, controls, etc.) tend to depend on or be overshadowed by that that ultimate question of 'is it fun'? Not to say those aspects are not important; its much more difficult to enjoy a game if the controls suck, or the voice acting is terrible, but one or two of these aspects can always be overlooked.

I believe that reviews should hold weight in the originality of the game. That means, no perfect scores for sequels, because they carry the spirit of the original game in their creation (exception for 2's in the line, if they both take risks to both change and build from the basics of the original, while being well made; never 3's in the line).

Many games come out in the span of a year, so reviews need to appraise originality of games in general MUCH better. Just being well made and even extremely entertaining, unfortunately, does not cut it.

...At least, not for the growth of the industry. As far as you buying the game though? It works.

gigastar:

Giest4life:

gigastar:
And there is the root cause of most Escapists being Escapists rather than being in the slew of other review sites.

While i forsee that not many people not part of the Escapist wont see this video and of them even less will care about it, it raises some extremely good arguments.

Not only don't the Escapist hand out 5 stars cheaply, they also have a very reasonable and clear definition of what their scores actually mean.

Five stars. This is as good as gaming currently gets, the crème de la crème. This doesn't imply perfection, merely that the experience you'll have will be exceptionally enjoyable.

Im aware of that page and have seen it before. What i meant about reviews on the Escapist was the comment threads, which are not bathed in the flames of fanboys just because a game is not perfect when the fans think it is.

And with the addition of (X)-and-a-half-star scores that page needs touching up.

Have I been using a different website? Even to this day I see reviews get 4.5 or 4 and someone will spew some bullshit about the Escapist being paid off because they gave Dragon Age 2 a 5. It doesn't even matter if the review in question wasn't done by Greg Tito because apparently the Escapist staff are a hive mind.

Here is an idea: why not ditch numbers and force people to actually READ the review ?

i would have thought that a 10/10 was impossible to achieve as a game that is 10/10 is a PERFECT game that has no faults and would be like by everyone regardless of genre preference. So if one review gives a game 10/10 but in the description it mentions that the enemy AI could be better, then it's not 10/10 as that is not a perfect game. People really need to remember these things.

just went to IGN, saw assassins creed revelations and halo anniversary reviews (they got an 8.5 and an 8) people were whining about both reviews. Fortunately not everyone there was a total idiot, a lot were satisfied with the scores, so I guess all hope for humanity isn't lost.

Remember, humans can only simplify. Ether something is shit, or something is Great. There is no middle.

I use to go by an old system. Since I have a limited time to play games, I only wanted to best. So I used good old metacritic. Anything lower then a 70% I would deem not worth my time. Not because my time was so valuable, but because I "rationalized" that I could spend my time doing something "better". I never thought that anything below a 70 was horrible though, since I had nothing to stand on. Now I'm so back logged with games that I'm still trying to get through them.

I also never wasted time posting on review scores. Since again, lack of time. That being said, I've played tons of "less then stellar games" that I found far more fun then some of these 9/10 games.

That being said, if there was a game that I was interested in that was in the 5-7 range, I would actually read several reviews to see what was wrong with it. However, I still found 4 and lower to be a red zone to never touch it with a ten foot pole. Don't know if that is wrong.

As to why people have so much e-penis for something they are not directly involved in. I guess its the same idea for sports teams. You feel like your part of something. I feel more and more animosity towards gamers as I get older. Maybe thats just it. I got older, and got wiser. I know if I saw this back when I was 18, I would probably get ready to flame jim for calling me immature while proving his point entirely.

This video was so good, I laughed so much at the end, it is probably my favorite episode so far. Jim is doing a great job.

The trouble is that our gaming culture is populated almost exclusively by actual children and their adult versions, people who sincerely don't WANT opinions other than their own to exist. They're insecure and only read/watch reviews to get their opinions validated, then cry bias and just plain idiocy when it doesn't happen. They need their game to get a 10/10, for they can't accept some games generally being considered better than the one they're deceiving themselves into thinking is absolutely perfect. Though I agree that reviewers themselves contributed to this situation by lowering standards so much. I also think that people just don't pay attention to the words of the actual review, and just focus solely on the numeric value, the stern hammer of judgement that it is.

Obviously the solution is not to just get rid of reviews altogether, though I admit I often find myself thinking it might be for the best. No, we just need to grow the fuck up.

Dexter111:
I don't particularly make a habit of watching this guy's videos or trying to give him too much attention, but the headline for this one got to me...

Let me guess, he's bitching about people "reacting negatively" to his awesome reviews, when he is widely known as the ultimate review troll, systematically giving either the highest or the lowest score on the Metacritic scale to try and force "controversy" and get more hits for his page, the latest attempt for this for instance being Battlefield 3 e.g.:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/battlefield-3/critic-reviews?dist=positive

Notice how the entire first page of the comments being mostly his "followers" do nothing else than post pictures of people eating pop-corn and waiting for the "inevitable shitstorm" (which in that case never came, it was more people eloquently discussing the game and telling him why he is wrong and to "sod off" instead)

Some other examples from the past:
"Negative":

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/assassins-creed-ii/critic-reviews?dist=negative
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/kane-lynch-2-dog-days/critic-reviews?dist=negative
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-3/final-fantasy-xiii/critic-reviews?dist=negative
http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/sonic-colors/critic-reviews?dist=negative

"Positive" e.g. giving games a 100 or similar:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/kirbys-return-to-dreamland/critic-reviews?dist=positive
http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/deadly-premonition
http://www.metacritic.com/game/psp/undead-knights/critic-reviews?dist=positive

etc.

Jim Sterling taking a "high horse" on this issue given his obvious "troll/getting hits" reviews and past is as ridiculous as can be, he is probably the last person on the planet that should be allowed to seeing as the only thing he is seeking is attention and respectively more hits/money and doesn't possess a fibre of integrity...

It's only more saddening to see how many people are falling for this based on the Comments...

...Maybe watch it?

Actually the point he's making is that 8 out of 10 is not a low score (40 for FFXIII is something I'd actually completely agree with. Passable, barely but not outright terrible). It's more in reference to the kind of people who went mental at Uncharted 3 getting an 8. Jim has mentioned Kirby's Epic Yarn in a few of his videos and actually justifies why he loves it.

Jim Sterling:

Review controversies are nothing new, but things went from bad to worse this year with gamers going crazy every time a major title got scored by various outlets. The "Year of Threes" have created more high profile titles than ever, and spawned more insane fanboys than the world knows what to do with. Even worse, the review score system has gotten so thoroughly screwed that 8/10 just doesn't cut it anymore. It's now become Hate/10.

Some people are idiots Jim, you may as well just ignore them, with the exception of people directing their hatred towards things you say yourself ofcourse.

Great video dude, by a rational standard I would say a 7.8/10

Personally, do to how reviews seemed to me, the ratings were like:

10: OMG TEH BEST GAME EVA!!!!1!!!
9: Great
8: Good
7: Average
6: Mediocre
5-1: Don't exist

And now it's even worse. You shouldn't get mad at a review for not like a game, it's their opinion, or at least it's supposed to be. But not anymore, now it's "Give me a 9" or "Give me a 10"

This video basically explains what reviewing has become

My feelings exactly Jim (lately I've been grudgingly agreeing with you more and more) but the painfull thing is that I think a lot of people who see the rating rage because 1. yes, they are ignorant and a product of the 'perfect ratings glory' we have been putting up over the years, also however 2. just because they are too lazy to take the numbers in context. people who rage about this sort of thing are almost exclusively lazy bastards who don't even bother reading the whole article, just look at the numbers and judge based on that. Some of these individuals (agreed, a heavy number would still be biased and ignore any critique leveled against the game, but there's always a few with more than one braincell) would be better able to understand the rating and realise their mistake.

To be honest this is part of what has always drawn me to the escapist: the reviews are not only well formulated, unbiased and usually consisting of both text and video, what really attracts me is the fact that they don't need numbers to bring their point across (OK fine they have stars, but it's easier to see past a star rating than a hard number, and besides it's right at the end of the review, not trumpeted loudly on the front page) . To clarify, I don't think anyone else needs them either, it's just for an 'at a glance' perspective of the reviewers oppinion, to grab passing readers attention and interest.
However since this whole misconception about the value of 'hate out of ten' for example, this number becomes completely non-objective. It means nothing, and it (specifically the interpretation of it by misinformed readers) devalues the review itself as a result.

Which is a shame really.

Personally, I think one of the problems might be that the games industry is expanding so rapidly in terms of technology & ability that it leaves reviewers, who for the most part are still all of the same generation of enthusiastic amateurs, spellbound by the pace of it. I've seen it suggested in defence of score inflation, on this website in fact I think it was, that games are so much better than they were 10years ago that they deserve the increased score, as an "average" game now is clearly better than an "average" game then. To me, this ignores the idea that the bar should be continuously raised as progress is made, which is a problem if the idea of a games reviewer/critic as someone who critiques games with the intention of aiding the continuous progression of the medium is to remain relevant (if it ever did).

I Shall make my post in Poster Form;

Great show Jim...you know what, I'm not doing anything productive. You've inspired me to start some reviewing of my own. I won't be carpet bombing review sites with 1's but there are a lot of games that I love that I'd like to write about. I doubt I'll have a profound effect but it'll be a chance to talk about how Pokemon isn't a perfect 10 series.

Link XL1:
ya no sorry, i watched the first episode and didnt like it. thought maybe i'd give jim another try, but NOPE i still cant watch this guy's videos. i just dont like him

Why not? What's the reason you don't like it? Do you not agree with the message? Were you not able to get over his character's attitude? Do you not like the crude drawings?

Constructive criticism is a lovely thing, so please do give it. ^_^

I have to fully agree with Jim on this episode. People are bitching at 8 out of 10? I can understand wanting a game from a series or developer you love to get a perfect score to meet your expectations, but guess what? That almost never happens, and when it does, take it with a grain of salt, because the reviewer might've been bought off or biased in some cases.

I actually look for lower reviews on games I'm not sure on and read the review to see why it didn't stack up. As for "low" scores on something I'm already buying/already bought, I still read the review to see what the writers perspective is on the game. I guess I'm just not irrational enough to be a troll :/

As always though, thanking gourds for Jim.

PS. Giving this video a 7.99545438743376 so suck it!

image

Summarises this perfectly.

Somehow Jim you have grown on me and your videos have become alot more interesting and enjoyable. I really liked this one.

I see 8/10s as good games but not spectacular or truly brilliant which obviously would be for the 9s or 10s. But I would not dismiss an 8/10 outright, it is still a very good score for what is most likely a very good game. Uncharted 3 for example is in all fairness an 8/10 and I applaud the reviewer for being objective with the game unlike IGN who fuel these fanboy commenters with 10/10 scores. If you hand out 10/10s, like Jim says, it really does undervalue the others and IGN is the biggest culprit.

I think people also expect 9+ scores from certain games due to the developers hype or their own wants to have their favourite game series and so their own egos validated by reviewers.

People don't want to think the game they've pre-ordered, been twining on about to everyone for months and months or bought to be nothing less than perfect. If it isn't for some reason it's like a really strange attack on their pride. To a certain extent it can be likened to a reviewer stating the worth of a game so for example saying the game is worth £35 (8/10) when the person/reader/fan paying has already shelled out £40+(9/10 or 10/10). It's not much of a difference to me or you but to those who have invested in it it's like someone is telling them they've been ripped off. Hence this defensiveness and unnecessary criticism of reviews, it is at its heart a mixture of fanboyism and foolish pride that creates these hate/ten-ers.

Well... that's how I see it anyhow.

Dexter111:
I don't particularly make a habit of watching this guy's videos or trying to give him too much attention, but the headline for this one got to me...

Let me guess, he's bitching about people "reacting negatively" to his awesome reviews, when he is widely known as the ultimate review troll, systematically giving either the highest or the lowest score on the Metacritic scale to try and force "controversy" and get more hits for his page, the latest attempt for this for instance being Battlefield 3 e.g.:

-snip-

It's only more saddening to see how many people are falling for this based on the Comments...

Not even a little bit? Yes, he uses his own reviews of certain games as an example, but that's not the point at all he's trying to get across. The point he's trying to make is that an '8 out of 10' score is not HORRIBLE. It's actually a pretty damn GOOD score to give a game, and it's ridiculous that so many gamers and fans get completely bent out of shape and call for removals of those reviews, just because THEIR FAVORITE NEW GAME didn't get a perfect score.

Don't try to guess what a video is about. Actually watch it.

Best... Ending... Ever... 8/10.

don't worry Jim. The anti-existance bombs are being attached to these idiots now.

This is something I do see brought up from time to time on the internet, and I think it's more valid than ever. I really get annoyed by people who see it on the "school grading" system and not as an actual scale out of 10, or 5 or whatever.

Eremiel:
image

Summarises this perfectly.

That is a very fitting image especially how 8 is considered the average these days while I remember a game getting an 8 back on the Mega Drive meant that it was "Really good" or "Great" and that came across in the games.

I know a lot of people say you can't really get a 1/10 game but there's alwasy Dr Jekyl (however you spell it) and Mr Hyde for NES. That's an utter failure in every conceivable way on how to make a videogame.

I remember being young (10 years old) and being taken in by 10/10 scores on games like Metal Gear Solid and being proud that MGS2 (13 I think) also got the same score but when MGS3 (15/16) came out the score dipped to like 9/10 I wasn't mad but thought that the game might not be as good, this theory was shot down though by the fact that MGS3 was one of the best games I've ever played and no scoring system will change my mind on it :p

PeePantz:
Who fucking cares? Seriously, this has gotten ridiculous. Between the bitching about scores and those bitching at those who score bitch, video game score reviews get entirely too much attention and press. People like Jim Sterling make it a big deal, causing developers and publishers to actually notice such things.

And now we've come full circle on the irony circuit. ^_^

Seriously, what do you call what you just did? lol Anyways, I say let the complainers complain about the initial complainers. The whole thing isn't hurting anyone. No.

What's hurting everyone is that Jim was too busy rage-quitting to mention to thank God for Jim! D<

Dexter111:
=Snip=

...I love you for all the reasons you wouldn't want a forum goer to love you right now.

bringer of illumination:
This problem is almost entirely the fault of the reviewers, they are the ones who have inflated review-scores to the point where no one can tell what they mean anymore.

I mean shit, this very site, the Escapist, gave Dragon Age II, a game that is patently worse than the original in every way, a score of 100%. That shit simply isn't fucking acceptable.

There needs to be an industry wide overhaul of the score system, and it needs to happen sooner, not later.

Kingsnake661:
Ok, I admit it... I'm starting to become a fan of this show... It took losing EC and having that time gap to fill during my lunch, but it's growing on me..

You know they are still making episodes right?

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/show/extra-credits

Every Wednesday.

I do, as a matter of fact. But I watch the escapeist stuff here at work on brakes and on lunch when i got not else going on, which is open on our computer, but Penny is blocked. My company's web filter is really REALLY wonky, letting some stuff slide that baffles me, and blocking stuff, that, also baffles me. *shrug* I make do, but thanks for the heads up.

Kingsnake661:
I do, as a matter of fact. But I watch the escapeist stuff here at work on brakes and on lunch when i got not else going on, which is open on our computer, but Penny is blocked. My company's web filter is really REALLY wonky, letting some stuff slide that baffles me, and blocking stuff, that, also baffles me. *shrug* I make do, but thanks for the heads up.

Corporate blockers have a very simple logic: Do a lot of people visit it during the workday?

If yes, it gets noticed, and blocked if not essential to company duties.

If no, it does not get noticed, and does not get blocked.

Escapist isn't as mainstream as Penny-Arcade, ergo...

However, it IS getting there, so eventually, it'll get noticed.

The rage at the end perfectly sums up how stupid and jaded people have become when viewing review scores. Opinons mean nothing anymore unless they match those of a target audience.

I've always favored endorsement reviews over ones based on a numeric system.

Can't say much about the gaming community at large though. We barely get the bar off the ground before we trip over it again.

The gamemagazine on which reviews i trust gives a much clearer point than most magazines.
Teh game can get 10 points for graphics, ten for athmosphere and there are a lot more points.
It all summarizes to x/100 points and its actual very good.
The best Score they ever gave was an 94/100 for Warcraft 3 - The Frozen Throne.

Great episode Jim! You're easily one of the best things about the espacist and why I keep coming back!

beetrain:

btenkink:
For a laugh, go watch the pilot episode of Jimquisition, and compare to this one. Master Sterling has hit his stride!

I can't even bring myself to watch the first couple again...
But the recent ones, particularly since "The Beautiful Irony of PC Gaming", I'm happy to have them on repeat.

What about the other ones on youtube? :< Those are good too!

I still cant believe that people are actually complaining over an 8. An 8!

I think that we need a review system with as few categories as possible to help prevent score creep. I purpose 5 categories:

Bad - all games not worth playing. We don't need 6 numbers to represent "don't buy this game."

Ok - Games that might be worth playing if you like the genre

Good - games generally worth playing but nothing special

Great - Games that are among the best few titles released every year. generally must play titles.

Virtually Perfect - Among the best few games ever made. Some years, maybe even most, would not have a game in this category.

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