Jimquisition: How Skyrim Proves The Industry Wrong

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MB202:
I've heard of Skyrim, if only because everyone won't shut up about it.

There is a reasons why people won't shut up about it. It is a brilliant game. Not to say it is just an amazing game none the less

On the multiplayer note: I mostly agree. As an amendment, however, I'd suggest that a lot of multiplayer games should stop trying to shove in a single-player component. TF2, MAG, and probably a few other games I can't remember have shown that you can create a game that exists solely in multiplayer space and is still successful.
Since CoD4, none of the games in the series have presented a single player experience to me that felt worth the price of admission, despite the fact I was borrowing half the games rather than paying for them.
Future CoD (and apparently Battlefield) titles would benefit from not including campaign modes at all - most of the negative press for both titles focuses on short nonsensical stories.

...it's obvious that popular game will sell, while sh*t won't if both games are set in sen conditions...

For everyone but publishers.

The only thing wrong with this episode is that it made me think about how much I wanted to play Skyrim D: My computer's broken...

And that gameplay footage was awesome! Frenzy on a chicken sounds like the best idea ever :D

NezumiiroKitsune:
Yeah, but on the downside, if the rest of the industry follows Bethesda's example, they'll release games that can't be completed if you look at it wrong with AI based on the survival instincts of a grape, a giant stupid grape that stands in doorways.

Wow. It is a game that has some flaws.

I would never have envisioned this.

Furthermore, developers will sue each other over the use of letters in any order, the use of concepts such a making a game in the visible spectrum, and having a sense of humour.

Since when did Bethesda Games Studios sue anyone?

Jim is surprised that a developer which has already had great success with games without multiplayer or online passes i.e Fallout 3 and Fallout New vegas releases a ridiculously similar game, makes it easy enough for anyone to play, backs it with loads of cash and advertising, benefits from mob mentality selling and does well. I am sorry but the Call of Duty of RPGs hasn't done anything that shouldn't be expected.

Proves the industry wrong? I don't think so.

Im rather disapointed. I saw the title of this and thought YES! Finally some good points to be made.

Yet after watching it, All he really said boiled down to common knowledge that morons tend to fall into and get duped into believing and astoundingly enough, defending.

I guess it makes sense, you have to educate beyond idiocy before you can expect enlightenment.

I mean Jim, you do realize that Bethesda actually did more damage, than good, right? You realize that Bethesda has evolved into the RPG equivalent of CoD, right? Its sort of like Taco Bell, You can order a burrito, a taco, a chalupa, a Qeacolipca, or any other mexican sounding food item from their menu and you realize its still just beef, shell and cheese. The only difference is the manner of which it is assembled. So by supporting Skyrim, your really just reinforcing that which is wrong with the industry, because they are just taking the working formula from CoD and reassembling their own version that fits with their design.

Right then... can we set a date? This coming Thursday I'll do you. With the plush hat on of course. Nothing else though.

Vamast:
you can't fly dragons. why?

Skyrim's one of the largest in-game maps to date, has great graphics, skilled voice acting, respawning, realistic-moving dragons, dozens of spells, multiple crafting styles, multiple weapon styles, hundreds of sets of armor, near-endless character facial customization, and endless hours of gameplay.
That's why.

All hail the Dovahjim!

Thank you for saying aloud what I'm sure several of us were thinking. Skyrim is the prime example of what games *should* be, which is to say, something engrossing that can spark conversations and trigger gatherings around the player, because he or she did something totally awesome.

Multiplayer should always remain a secondary focus or be entirely absent in these types of games. If you're in need of some multiplayer action, there's always five or six reigning champions in that area. Even moreso, Skyrim proves all the idiots who refuse to touch a game unless it's multiplayer-centric or an MMO wrong. You *can* have a single-player package with enough content to make you wonder if you aren't playing your own personal MMO, at times.

Because that's honestly what Skyrim is. An MMO with none of the hassle associated with MMOs.

This was a good video, but it won't do anything to the industry.

Because rehashing the same damn bang-bagn-boom-shoot game year after year is a lot cheaper than making a totally great game that can stand on its own. Furthermore, you can always expect a good bunch of idiots to pick up the latest military shooter, regardless of quality, whereas making a unique (or just different) game is a risk.

And shareholders don't LIKE risk, they want more money. And what the shareholders want, the company must do.

Well I was all like: "Yeah Jim, these are things I've been saying too. Thank god one of us has a show to spread the word!"
Then you made me choke on my Dr.Pepper and trashed a perfectly good podium with your willy-nilly use of the Thu'um.
I hope you're pleased with yourself.

Also.

My large PVC mini-Alduin says hello to your large PVC mini-Alduin and wonders if he would like to get together sometime to end the mortal plane?

I really didn't like Jim whenever he started on this site(I've never seen his other stuff before that)
Now, I love it. He is right most of the time, and that ending was wonderful. I was waiting for the thank god for me, and then BAM!

Skyrim is so damn replayable, I haven't even finished the main quest with my character and I'm already planning another character.

This is probably one of the best videos Jim has done, and I couldn't agree more with everything. That'll do Jim, that'll do.

Also, I damn near choked on my coffee with the last bit.

remnant_phoenix:
Thank God for you, Jim...someone who will tell it like it is.

It's easy to blame the industry big-wigs for not exercising wisdom about this stuff, but truly, it's the consumers buying into those ideas that is creating these problems.

I teach middle-schoolers. When they asked me if I was buying MW3, I said no. They asked why and I explained that the first thing I look for in a game is a good single-player experience. Their response?

"Oh come on, nobody plays single-player anymore!"

Yeah... Granted these are a small handful of pre-teens, but there's an example of someone thinking that "buy a new CoD each year, pay for XBOX Live Gold, play thousands of hours of multi-player, buy new map packs as they come out, rinse and repeat" is the quintessential gaming experience. And there more people who think that way than I'd like to admit.

Way to go, Bethesda for proving that that model of gaming isn't the ONLY model worth pursuing, despite the existence of millions of CoD-kiddies.

You know though, Jim wasn't hating on CoD really, it was just a point he brought up.

vivster:
pathetic... comparing skyrim to any other game
it's an open world game for at least 50+ hours... of course it doesn't need an online mode
and of course because it does not need an online pass because there is no such thing as server fees
where do you come from to assume that any of that can say anything about any other game?

what are we comparing next?
minesweeper to assassin's creed?

What are you talking about?

You can quite easily compare Arkham City to Skyrim.
Both current gen, multi-platform, single player, open world games yet one feels the need for an online pass and the other doesn't.
What server costs is Arkham City generating again?

The length of the game has bugger all to do with anything. Besides the fact that there's no actual need for Arkham city to be any longer. It's a more condensed game and more importantly a different style of game. But again not the point. If the game is good enough people will buy it - no need for an online pass and that's the point.

Also the Minesweeper/Assassin's Creed quip is so typical of many people on the internet who's points are so wafer thin they have to resort to ridiculous superlatives which no one actually ever even brought up in the original argument.

Korten12:

remnant_phoenix:
Thank God for you, Jim...someone who will tell it like it is.

It's easy to blame the industry big-wigs for not exercising wisdom about this stuff, but truly, it's the consumers buying into those ideas that is creating these problems.

I teach middle-schoolers. When they asked me if I was buying MW3, I said no. They asked why and I explained that the first thing I look for in a game is a good single-player experience. Their response?

"Oh come on, nobody plays single-player anymore!"

Yeah... Granted these are a small handful of pre-teens, but there's an example of someone thinking that "buy a new CoD each year, pay for XBOX Live Gold, play thousands of hours of multi-player, buy new map packs as they come out, rinse and repeat" is the quintessential gaming experience. And there more people who think that way than I'd like to admit.

Way to go, Bethesda for proving that that model of gaming isn't the ONLY model worth pursuing, despite the existence of millions of CoD-kiddies.

You know though, Jim wasn't hating on CoD really, it was just a point he brought up.

I know. Jim likes CoD, and I don't fault him for that, because he likes other sorts of games as well. I was just using CoD as an example of the industry woes that Jim referred to.

And when I say "CoD-kiddies," I'm not talking about all CoD fans, I'm talking about people who thank that "'buy(ing) a new CoD each year, pay for XBOX Live Gold, play thousands of hours of multi-player, buy new map packs as they come out, rinse and repeat'" is the quintessential gaming experience".

You know, CoD fans who "prove the industry right" while Skyrim's fans are "proving the industry wrong."

Felt like I was watching Kirby after swallowing the Dovahkiin at the end

Wuvlycuddles:
Sadly, the only thing the Industry will take from the whole Skyrim thing is the following: "Wow, that game did really well, we need to make our own open world rpg game but we can add multiplayer, online passes and frivolous dlc!"

"And hell, we don't even need for it to work properly. It can freeze, crash, stutter, and lock up quests, and they'll still buy it purely on hype."
That's what I'm afraid of.

That's the thing Jim. Bethesda is one of the only companies I would be willing to pay an extra $10 to if they could promise that the game would actually work. EA and the rest of them can of course go fuck themselves with their $10 passes.

And yes, while I do regret buying Saints Row 3 (I had no idea it had an online pass or had half the game carved out for dlc before buying it: saints row 2 was so generous by comparison), I'm still glad I waited on Skyrim. I'll get it after they've patched it up a bit.

That's an epic ending too; I want some of what Jim's smoking.

Em, Skyrim is broken on PS3, so the example is far from flawless.
But overall point is... You don't need online passes and such if your game is actually good and fun to play. If it is actually shitty however, or a shallow, disappointing experience that lasts a weekend...

Oh look, Jim being wrong again, how surprising.

Never watched jims show before, I have to say that was fan-fucking-tastic! Keep up the awesome show jim!

SirBryghtside:
The only thing wrong with this episode is that it made me think about how much I wanted to play Skyrim D: My computer's broken...

And that gameplay footage was awesome! Frenzy on a chicken sounds like the best idea ever :D

NezumiiroKitsune:
Yeah, but on the downside, if the rest of the industry follows Bethesda's example, they'll release games that can't be completed if you look at it wrong with AI based on the survival instincts of a grape, a giant stupid grape that stands in doorways.

Wow. It is a game that has some flaws.

I would never have envisioned this.

Furthermore, developers will sue each other over the use of letters in any order, the use of concepts such a making a game in the visible spectrum, and having a sense of humour.

Since when did Bethesda Games Studios sue anyone?

Their lawyers are involved in two high profile litigations, one with Interplay over whether the license they bought encompasses all of the Fallout franchise, which is to say, the fiction, past fiction based in the fiction, as well as the names and trademarks. The other with Mojang.

Bethesda very publicly fired their lawyers during the litigation with Interplay, which was, if I remembered rightly, not the first time that had happened. I don't remember earlier examples of legal action brought against or by Bethesda (Softworks), but they must have happened for the earlier wash of the legal department.

Whomever provides the lawyers who work on behalf of Bethesda (Softworks) is inconsequential, each subsidiaries legal department represents that client first, not the parent company. Whether Vlatko Andonov or Todd Vaughn spearheaded either personally is irrelevant.

Not that that is nearing copious frivolous litigation territory, I was being a bit dramatic.

NezumiiroKitsune:

SirBryghtside:
The only thing wrong with this episode is that it made me think about how much I wanted to play Skyrim D: My computer's broken...

And that gameplay footage was awesome! Frenzy on a chicken sounds like the best idea ever :D

NezumiiroKitsune:
Yeah, but on the downside, if the rest of the industry follows Bethesda's example, they'll release games that can't be completed if you look at it wrong with AI based on the survival instincts of a grape, a giant stupid grape that stands in doorways.

Wow. It is a game that has some flaws.

I would never have envisioned this.

Furthermore, developers will sue each other over the use of letters in any order, the use of concepts such a making a game in the visible spectrum, and having a sense of humour.

Since when did Bethesda Games Studios sue anyone?

Their lawyers are involved in two high profile litigations, one with Interplay over whether the license they bought encompasses all of the Fallout franchise, which is to say, the fiction, past fiction based in the fiction, as well as the names and trademarks. The other with Mojang.

Bethesda very publicly fired their lawyers during the litigation with Interplay, which was, if I remembered rightly, not the first time that had happened. I don't remember earlier examples of legal action brought against or by Bethesda (Softworks), but they must have happened for the earlier wash of the legal department.

Whomever provides the lawyers who work on behalf of Bethesda (Softworks) is inconsequential, each subsidiaries legal department represents that client first, not the parent company. Whether Vlatko Andonov or Todd Vaughn spearheaded either personally is irrelevant.

Not that that is nearing copious frivolous litigation territory, I was being a bit dramatic.

Publishers, not devs. And all they've really done is protect their IP - the Scrolls thing was explained in-depth, that it would weaken their case in a later hearing, and the Interplay?

From what I gather, they made a contract, and IP didn't follow the contract. Not saying that Beth are right to stop them anyway, but come on. Rules are rules.

This film is worthless without telling us WHERE HE GOT THE HAT!!!!???!!!!

Another damn good one. Damn good.

Despite my hate for the Elder Scrolls because of all the repeating of quests. It proves some of the conventions of the industry wrong.

Jimothy Sterling:

Donnie Restad:
I really agree with your points, but I'm still having such a hard time getting past your cocky attitude and nasally voice...

Let's be fair. It's more straight whiny than nasal.

Lets be truthful here, it can get a little irritating but funny as hell in some locations. Still did a good job if you actually made the video *theres apparently two Jims with the same last name, so, in theory, I may be responding to a impostor. In this moment..

WHICH ONE DO I SHOOT!!!*

The Witcher 2 did this before, but it is a very less known brand then Elder Scrolss. Jim is totally right, we are paying to have less and less content in favor of the multiplayer component.

PS: on the other hand, count how many hours you have in TF2 or CoD or BF3. It's massive, just as example in TF2 I have 250 hours!!!

I beat Saints Row The Third last night after 18 hours of gameplay (some sandboxing included, like buying all the stores and properties and playing about 10 minigames), so I guess it is rather short and underwhelming despite the epicness of every mission. I still love to make my enemies ETHICAL with the Octopuss Gun.

viranimus:
snip

what you just said makes no sense...
i mean, yeah they dumbed it down a lot. you could say that the only thing they improved are graphics and its a lot more inmersive than oblivion (and thats the key to its success).

and CoD? really? you are comparing it to a brown FPS shooter in wich you spend 90% of your time dying and retrying...

I was actually mad with bethesda because of FO3 (fucks sake that game was about the stupidest thing ive ever played). But they actually let Obsidian make new vegas for all those FO 1&2 fans and ever since then ive learned to love them again.

But back to Skyrim... Bottom line, this game is fun, its totally worth its price and more.

While I do agree with him, I also believe credit has to be given to a great marketing team.

Their short gameplay clips, trailers and especially that one live action trailer really sld the game not just to fans of the Elder Scrolls Games but to the general public!

Jim, when you fist came on this site, I was completely skeptical. I didn't like your annoying, cocky attitude, and I thought yet another opinion show is exactly what this site had quite enough of. So I never watched a single episode of yours outside that of the first two.

But I recently had an argument with a friend of mine that was exactly like the issues you just brought up today. Now I see you for what you really are. The cockiness and smartass attitude is more in good fun and parody rather than certain other reviewers on this site who think they're here to "school" us while keeping a completely straight face. I won't name names (Bob), but it has only reenforced people's notion that the Escapist is a gaming elitist site.

Jim, you and I are on the same wavelength, and I'm sorry to have doubted you. It's time I started rooting around in your video archives. I've got some catching up to do.

Vamast:
you can't fly dragons. why?

because the hordes of modders havent gotten around to it just yet, wait a week.

Wow... Preach on, Brother Jimbo! PREACH ON!!

I have to confess that sometimes I just go up in the mountains and just look at the scenery and enjoying the sound and sight of the snow blowing. (As I can't do that in South Carolina)

Also, where can I get that plush helmet?

In other words, if you want to have a successful game, quit fucking about with the bullshit and just make a fucking good game.

Yes, that is a pithy way of putting it that does not convey all the additional nuances(as is typical of pithy comments), but, I think at this point, there has been more than enough discussion that we know what those nuances are and how they distill down to the above comment.

ADDENDUM: However, I should add that what one should do to make a game good depends on the game. There is no universal silver-magic bullet approach. Blindly copying another's success is the surest road to failure.

Well said good sir, well said.

It also helps that intrepid individuals can create all kinds of content for the game. Can't wait to see what they come up with - ever see the amazing Fallout (3/NV) mods?? Damn.

But yeah, multiplayer to me is rather "meh". I played maybe... 10 hours of BF3 online. Yeah, it's fairly enjoyable, but I'm already around 30 hours of Skyrim and practically drooling at the mouth to play more lol.

I wish it came out 5 years ago when I could game for 5 hrs a day (oh how WoW consumed me in my youth...)

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