The Skyrim/Dragon Age Baby

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evilthecat:

It kind of did though..

See, you mention Planescape Torment. I actually went back and played Planescape Torment (until the THACO system pissed me the hell off) recently, and you know what, it's really not hugely different. The characters are fairly broad archetypes, heck, two are just rigid personifications of the D&D alignment system.

The one thing I can assume you're talking about, and it would be a fairly legitimate point, is that the characters in Planescape torment took real effort to get to know. That's not even because they had so much more dialogue, it's a lot more to do with the fact that they'd only respond to specific stimuli in the world outside of their respective mission hubs.

I'm not for one second suggesting that the writing in Planescape Torment isn't top notch, just that I strongly suspect a lot of the people who go on about it are somewhat tainted by nostalgia. There are plenty of well written games, Dragon Age 2 is probably the closest we've got in recent years to being one of them.

Aside from Mort and Nordom, how many of the Planescape Torment party NPCs can you remember the names of without looking it up? Even I can't remember one of them, and I only played it again about a month ago.

*Morte. Also, Annah, Ignus, Falls-From-Grace, Vhailor, Dakkon, (as you mentioned) Nordom. Played it about 2-3 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, Bioware has okay characters, but it's nowhere near the Planescape: Torment level. And Dragon Age 2 is not the game I would put forward as an example of the good characters that Bioware creates. Half the characters in it are basically designed around their romantic subplot, for crying out loud!

evilthecat:

SpaceMedarotterX:
But then I realized that would be positivly ridiculous, because nobody in their right mind would ever, under any circumstances, for any amount of money, suggest that Dragon Age 2 had good characters.

It kind of did though..

See, you mention Planescape Torment. I actually went back and played Planescape Torment (until the THACO system pissed me the hell off) recently, and you know what, it's really not hugely different. The characters are fairly broad archetypes, heck, two are just rigid personifications of the D&D alignment system.

The one thing I can assume you're talking about, and it would be a fairly legitimate point, is that the characters in Planescape torment took real effort to get to know. That's not even because they had so much more dialogue, it's a lot more to do with the fact that they'd only respond to specific stimuli in the world outside of their respective mission hubs.

I'm not for one second suggesting that the writing in Planescape Torment isn't top notch, just that I strongly suspect a lot of the people who go on about it are somewhat tainted by nostalgia. There are plenty of well written games, Dragon Age 2 is probably the closest we've got in recent years to being one of them.

How the fuck can I be nostalgic about a game I played a month ago? And no, it has nothing to do with how hard it is to get to KNOW a character, it has to do with how that character is, how you interact with them, how they tie into you.

See in DA2 I have a collection of utter fucking morons I can't get to leave me the hell alone up until I inevitably sell Fenris off into slavery, murder Anders, Isabela and Merill, and you have to be barking mad if you think I brought ANY of the fucking DLC.

There's a difference between DA2 and Planescape Torment can be summed up in an image

image

WHAT IS THE NATURE OF A MAN?

And I love how you can state "Well DA2's characters are good" while utterly failing to provide any argument as to WHY they are good, while I have stated, again and again, why they are terrible wastes of space.

That video was cool but if you really want to hear the music from each of those three go together good heres an awesome one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVGYMCYAPow&feature=endscreen&NR=1

Seriously, watch it, I mean sound quality isn't the best but it's really awesome. I'm not a proffesional when it comes to sound and music but to me, that is something I aprove of.

One of the things I like most about Skyrim is there are no generic "citizen" filler people. They all have names, they all have jobs, they all have houses and beds where they go to sleep.

purifico:

Susan Arendt:
The Skyrim/Dragon Age Baby

Blending the locations of Skyrim and the characters of Dragon Age 2 would make one damn fine RPG.

Read Full Article

Susan, just out of curiousity - whom did you romance in DA2 and what would be your reaction if Bioware had pulled a Garrus on Varric (that is making your ultimate bro a romance option)?

You know, I actually thought about that, and I'm not really sure. I think I would've liked to have had the conversation, because of how it would reflect on their characters, but ultimately I don't think I'd have gone through with it. Part of what makes Varric Varric is how he holds himself apart from everything - he makes it pretty clear that he doesn't feel tied to anyone or anything in particular. Messing with that...I dunno. Wouldn't be right.

Athinira:

Susan Arendt:
I encourage this union for purely selfish reasons, that I might someday get to play a game that has Skyrim-quality environments and Dragon Age quality characters.

And what game would you then marry Skyage with in order to get rid of the uninspirering, bland (and dare i say terrible?) combat systems both games had? Mass Effect? Baldur's Gate 2? :o)

I actually didn't hate the combat in DA2, but I understand the problems people had with it. I genuinely enjoyed the combat in Mass Effect 2, but the laser pistols don't quite mesh well with the high fantasy setting of Skyrim. :) Perhaps just keep much of what Skyrim has, but mix in some of Dark Souls' heaviness? Where you actually feel like you just thwacked someone with an axe, instead of just sort of waved it in their general direction. That might be good.

thiosk:

Susan Arendt:
They let you have a dog.

Never anything for the cat person.

It is my mission to ensure that a kitty cat mod is prepared for skyrim.

My demands:
1. Kittens are collected and deposited in your homes.
2. You must feed them various animal parts.
3. They pounce on and batter around any small objects.
4. They multiply rapidly.

I love this idea. Well...I'm not sure about the body parts thing. Can I just feed them rabbit instead?

Susan Arendt:
The Skyrim/Dragon Age Baby

Blending the locations of Skyrim and the characters of Dragon Age 2 would make one damn fine RPG.

Read Full Article

Why can't we do things like this? This is one of the huge drawbacks to how intertwined Art and Commerce have become... we can't get groups of artists to collaborate on potentially-awesome things like this because of budgets/profits/competition/etc. Yeah, it's the real world -- but isn't one of the points of Art that the "real world" kind of sucks, and needs to be improved?

I never wish to see the result of that unholy union unless it's to burn it with fire!

Susan Arendt:

Ghostwise:
I for one would be very pleased with an amazing Dragon Rim.

I'm guessing Susan isn't a fan of Tom Bissell.....

Why do you say that?

I just assumed you were aware of his wisecrack he made about female gamers and his big ole' apology. You writing an article about Skyrim, I thought it rather ironic.

http://kotaku.com/5864134/to-whom-i-have-offended-an-open-letter-from-tom-bissell

Also....I like me a good ole' fashion Dragon Rim. That isn't what you were referring to is it? :o

Ghostwise:

Susan Arendt:

Ghostwise:
I for one would be very pleased with an amazing Dragon Rim.

I'm guessing Susan isn't a fan of Tom Bissell.....

Why do you say that?

I just assumed you were aware of his wisecrack he made about female gamers and his big ole' apology. You writing an article about Skyrim, I thought it rather ironic.

http://kotaku.com/5864134/to-whom-i-have-offended-an-open-letter-from-tom-bissell

Also....I like me a good ole' fashion Dragon Rim. That isn't what you were referring to is it? :o

Of course I'm aware of it. Tweeted about it a few times, actually. But I don't really see how one has any bearing on the other. Lots of people are writing about Skyrim at the moment.

rembrandtqeinstein:
One of the things I like most about Skyrim is there are no generic "citizen" filler people. They all have names, they all have jobs, they all have houses and beds where they go to sleep.

The results of which are none of them have anything to say beyond some generic line of dialogue repeated ad nauseum. The huge problem with Bethesda is that no one in their games seems anything more than a faint smudge on the lens as far as personality goes.

Oh ye gods ... you just had to mention DA2, didn't you?

Don't get me wrong I loved DA2, but damnit ... now you've given all the haterade chugging morons of the internet another opportunity to come crawling out of the woodwork. Because apparently there's some sort of law against having a fair and balanced opinion of something on the internet - everything must either be the best thing ever or the worst thing ever.

Though more on topic - yes that would be awesome - if somehow you could combine everything that BioWare was good at with everything that Bethesda was good at it would indeed be a massive conflux of awesomeness.

Susan - I completely agree.

Also... what you said about Sandal made me think... who here thinks Sandal will be playable in Dragon Age 3?

... or possibly the arch villain of Dragon Age 3, armed with every piece of equipment you ever sold to his dad?

rembrandtqeinstein:
One of the things I like most about Skyrim is there are no generic "citizen" filler people. They all have names, they all have jobs, they all have houses and beds where they go to sleep.

I think that could be the problem. Because they all get those things, it prevents any of them from really standing out. They're still just so many cogs in the (well-constructed) clockwork. But when I think about Lydia or Belrand, I end up thinking "heavy weapons" or "sword/spell" rather than thinking of them as characters, or even personalities.

The population is, in a sense, a mile wide but only an inch deep.

RedEyesBlackGamer:

Sucal:
Can anyone identify the city used in the screen shot? I'm shamed to admit that I don't recognize it.

The Imperial City from Oblivion.
OP: I'll just insert things about DA:O instead. I love Sten, Wynne, and Morrigan. There are a handful of characters I remember and will remember. Lucien Lachance and Cicero come to mind.

I'm so glad Lachance made it into skyrim, he was probably my favorite character in Oblivion. (That questline was just soooooooooo gooood)

Maybe KOA will end up being that fantasy mix, but I reckon the game will be at best a compromise, so not excelling at delivering both pretty, big environments and unique NPCs.

If you don't need dragons and fantasy fluff in your games, New Vegas is the closest thing.

SpaceMedarotterX:

maxben:

Candidus:
No, no, no, no, no.

Dragon Age 2? Really?

Let's see. There's Anders Cullen, the borderline plagiarized-from-Twilight brain-fart of Hamburger Helper. "I love you, but I'll hurt you, Oh, I can't control it!". Repeat ad nauseum. Moving on...

Fenris. Picked him up. Never took him with me because he's just a dirty heap of tween fodder. "Hrrrr, what they *DID* to *ME* -smoulder--smoulder-". Fuck off. Next.

Merril. The one whose story you know from start to finish the moment you see the blood magic and hear the words "but *I* can control it". Charming and boring equally.

Some Dwarf. Dashing rogue. Talks dirty with Isabella. I took him with me everywhere and still can't remember his name. Says it all.

Isabella was alright. Substantial, but not my cup of tea. A reluctant pass for Isabella.

Who else was there? The male archer. Bland as hell, was pretty much just a vessel for yet another accent. SO DIVERSE.

I actually can't remember anybody else. Still, no f'ing way on the Skyrim/DA2 combine. Dragon Age 1 and its expansion, now that'd be okay.

I disagree heavily. Anders is not trying to control it, he agrees with Justice at his core even if sometimes he feels uncomfortable. The Anders I understood was an intelligent version of the chaotic good character, where we see that the rules might not matter in the face of Justice.

Fenris I didn't use, but to claim that a character that mopes about an actual problem like slavery is tween emo fodder seems ridiculous. There is a difference between someone whining that no one understands them and someone who has gone through traumatic stuff. What would be legitimate to "whine about" if not slavery???

Merril is a little generic except that she doesn't have to lose to the power. Characters who say that they can handle the Dark and Forbidden are technically not supposed to be able to do it by the end of the story. The fact that she can use it and get really goddamn powerful makes you reconsider the ban on blood magic in the same way as Morrigan as those made by weak and fearful creatures. However, her personality contrast to Morrigan makes her even more interesting because she assumes she can use the power for good, not just neutral personal success (as Morrigan does).

The Dwarf's name is Varric and if you can't remember the character that narrates the story you've got a problem. His personality is shown at the beginning and at the ends.

Isabella was awesome! I romanced her and told her I loved her. She threw it in my face and betrayed me. Awsome!

Yes, Sebastian is boring and I have nothing good to say about him. Worse, he came in a DLC.

You're also forgetting Aveline and your brother or sister. I liked Aveline because her comments showed that she was constantly out of her depth. She is a simple person that wants to reduce good and bad into simple rules. She is the lawful good character, and I am glad they played it as simple rather than over-righteousness (which is the cliche).

In what games did you like the characters?

I'm sorry but you are wrong.

Anders in Dragon Age: Awakening encounters a mage spouting about how the Circle has to be destroyed and the mages freed, and he is disgusted, telling the warden that, while he doesn't agree with how tight the circle is run, he still thinks it's much better than Mages being stoned to death, attracting demons and having no way to control their power.

He has done a COMPLETE fucking 180 in terms of personality, actions, beliefs, and character in general. You can say "Oh but he's merged with Justice now" and I can respond "GREAT! so you fucked up two characters, congratulations"

Fenris is an insufferable JRPG character lost in a WRPG. I'm sorry but the brooding white haired elf (who's Eyebrows don't match by the way) with his lyrium tattoos and his "YOU WOULD NEVER UNDERSTAND MY DARK PAST", wielding a 2-hander bigger than he is, made fucking Cloud Strife Circa ADVENT CHILDREN look Well adjusted and happy.

Merill is retarded. I don't mean that as her character is retarded, I mean she is LITERALLY fucked in the head, Bioware tried to capitalize on Tali and make a 'Moe' Character for Dragon Age, what we got was a complete fucking idiot, who's every line of dialogue grated on my fucking nerves as she "Giggle how cute am I" with all her dialogue, and I was HAPPY to put her out of her misery. then again I killed almost all my party so maybe I'm just a monster. Or maybe they shouldn't be so terrible. And she is NOTHIGN like Morrigan. MORRIGAN looked down on Blood Magic and making deals with demons, she knew better because Flemeth taught her better, Merill is supposed to be the fucking FIRST to the Keeper and she's making retarded mistakes that every mage ever is told not to make.

Oh but if there was ever a message for "Mages are fucking horrible and need to be locked up" it was DA2, the only non-blood mages in the game are Bethany and Anders and the latter is a Terrorist. Oh wait there was the Saarebas, but they're qunari and they know better.

As for your family, Douchebag annoying brother who did nothing to endear himself until Legacy came along OR complete bland flat sister. I can see the siblings just OOZE personality.

Aveline and Varric... eh they were fine.

What about Isabela?
What ABOUT Isabela? Her personality is "How many people have I fucking slept with" and "I love freedom, innuendo, innuendo" what was I supposed to take from that, that the character I knew for all of 5 minutes in Origins, was now a party member? Big Whoop.

Want party members I DO like in various games? Sten, Jolee Bindo, Sanger Zonvolt, Bart, Pretty much everyone from Nier, Everyone in Planescape: Torment, a lot of characters who don't serve to go out of their way to fucking ANNOY ME.

Now lets get one thing clear, you can like these characters, I can not ever tell you that the emotions you felt with them were wrong. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

But they are badly written characters, this is a fact. This is non-negotiable, They are the shallowest, most painful characters I ever had to put up with.

There was a single time in DA:O where I didn't have the dialogue option I wanted, I wanted to explain my values of strength and freedom to Morrigan, because she had her own opinions and there was never a chance. Don't say "That's unreasonable" because Planescape did it and it's old as hell.

In DA2 there was NEVER a moment I didn't wish for different dialogue options. The game was trash, It literally had 2 characters who weren't complete shit, and the only 'Gameplay' improvements was giving more than 4 straight lines for 'Skill Trees' and making the combat faster. It's a pity the combat became complete shit however, not to mention the graphics being eye raping terrible, the soundtrack being even MORE non-existant than the one in Dragon Age: Origins, The story being a terribly plotted convoluted mess of contrivance and bullshit, the COMPLETE lack of effort resource wise, and the most painful dialogue ever concieved by man, containing more of the same 'Joss Whedon' funny, except even HE manages to be legit witty sometimes, DA2 can't even aspire to that.

It is an abortion, a scar upon the world, it's not just god awful, it's boring. The cardinal sin of video games.

U mad?

But in all seriousness, Im sorry Dragon Age 2 Wasn't what you wanted. ill agree that there were some aspects of the game I didn't agree with (wave after wave of combat, copy pasta dungeons) but to say the game was badly written I will disagree with you. "

OT: A mix of Dragon Age & Skyrim would be pretty sweet.

cynicalsaint1:
Oh ye gods ... you just had to mention DA2, didn't you?

Don't get me wrong I loved DA2, but damnit ... now you've given all the haterade chugging morons of the internet another opportunity to come crawling out of the woodwork. Because apparently there's some sort of law against having a fair and balanced opinion of something on the internet - everything must either be the best thing ever or the worst thing ever.

Though more on topic - yes that would be awesome - if somehow you could combine everything that BioWare was good at with everything that Bethesda was good at it would indeed be a massive conflux of awesomeness.

Yeah, I know. But I'm not going to pretend I don't like a game simply because some intolerant people shout at me. I understand why the game let some people down, and I don't think the storyline was nearly as interesting if you weren't playing as a mage or a templar, but anyone who goes berserk because I dare claim it's a fun game aren't really worth paying attention to, as far as I'm concerned. If you want me to respect that your reasons for disliking the game are valid, then you need to show me similar respect though I hold the opposing point of view.

Keep my TES away from EA damnit!

How about I just get my KOTOR 3? Considering KOTOR 2 was too good for them, because it was during a time when they, "Didn't do sequels." Not a big fan of SWOWTOR, but I have other things to focus on game wise.

Not a big fan either of this type of minute long opinion article. I too could think of games I want to mix together...

Monster Hunter/Metal Gear Solid 3

Grand Theft Auto/Dynasty Warriors

Vanquish/Geometry Wars

Shogun 2/Pikmin

TAAAAAH DAAAAAAH!!!

So, what you're saying is Bethesdioware needs to become a thing?
A sentiment I can totally get behind.

While Bethesda crafts beautiful, deep endlessly explorable worlds, they always feel dead to me. Dead in the sense of its populace anyway. There's no one that I really like except my horse, and that's only because I love to give him a deep, involved backstory... before he gets killed by a pack of wolves.
Plus Bethesda conversations don't lend themselves well to immersive character interaction.

On the flip side, Bioware isn't quite the best at level layout, oh sure I can remember a lot of levels but only because of the events that unfolded there, not because of the levels themselves. Plus Taris, I hate Taris, I really really do and I always love seeing it get blown to bits... frickin' 10 hour slog through no jedi-ness.

Combining the two of them, and maybe throwing in Obsidian and what they bring to the table for good measure, that would be a combination of orgasmic proportions. All it would require is an obscene amount of money to combine the studios.

L10nH3ArT:
Keep my TES away from EA damnit!

How about I just get my KOTOR 3? Considering KOTOR 2 was too good for them, because it was during a time when they, "Didn't do sequels." Not a big fan of SWOWTOR, but I have other things to focus on game wise.

Not a big fan either of this type of minute long opinion article. I too could think of games I want to mix together...

Monster Hunter/Metal Gear Solid 3

Grand Theft Auto/Dynasty Warriors

Vanquish/Geometry Wars

Shogun 2/Pikmin

TAAAAAH DAAAAAAH!!!

Wait wait wait wait WAIT

Shogun 2/Pikmin? Explain.

holy mother of god, for a second i was thinking you are serious about "dragon age" 2!!!
so you hate skyrim so much you want it dead for eternity by combining it with "dragon age"2,
well if you hate skyrim so much why not just delete it,instead of sanding it in
"dragon age" 2 hell !!!
why on earth would anybody wanna make something like "dragon age" 2!!!
why on earth are you so casually speaking the name of doom(the game that must not be named) ????
Burn all "dragon age" 2 games!!!

Susan Arendt:

Wait wait wait wait WAIT

Shogun 2/Pikmin? Explain.

Alien samurai plants that sprout out of the ground and fight historically accurate battles? I'd play it.

Amaror:
First they would have to fix the gameplay from dragon Age 2.
Even if they had the best characters and enviroments, if the gameplay was still like that i couldn't enjoy it.

I haven't actually played Dragon Age 2 yet... (I always wait for the price of a game to drop to around $10. Just bought Fallout and Fallout: New Vegas! Woo!) But I did enjoy the combat of the first Dragon Age. Not as much as I could've, but I grew up on Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment, so the top-down tactical battle appeals to me.

Now that I'm thinking about it, there aren't many RPGs with battle systems that I really enjoy. Probably just the new Fallouts (first-person shooting plus VATS! Because I'm actually not that accurate on my own.) Actually, I got into a couple of the beta weekends for SW:TOR, and I did enjoy the combat there. Hmmm... (Another point for Bioware?)

Susan Arendt:

cynicalsaint1:
Oh ye gods ... you just had to mention DA2, didn't you?

Don't get me wrong I loved DA2, but damnit ... now you've given all the haterade chugging morons of the internet another opportunity to come crawling out of the woodwork. Because apparently there's some sort of law against having a fair and balanced opinion of something on the internet - everything must either be the best thing ever or the worst thing ever.

Though more on topic - yes that would be awesome - if somehow you could combine everything that BioWare was good at with everything that Bethesda was good at it would indeed be a massive conflux of awesomeness.

Yeah, I know. But I'm not going to pretend I don't like a game simply because some intolerant people shout at me. I understand why the game let some people down, and I don't think the storyline was nearly as interesting if you weren't playing as a mage or a templar, but anyone who goes berserk because I dare claim it's a fun game aren't really worth paying attention to, as far as I'm concerned. If you want me to respect that your reasons for disliking the game are valid, then you need to show me similar respect though I hold the opposing point of view.

I for one loved DA2, Probably played through it at least three or four times. Yeah I can understand why it didnt live up to the massive sucess that was DA:Orgins, (and I certinally hope that DA:3 will do better....) and I agree with this article you've written sooooo much.

I find it ironic that people can hate DA:2 so much though. I guess it's one of the flaws of the internet that it gives everyone an ability to voice they're.... "displeasure" at anything that even irks them at the slightest, when people here can post about ideas that would be absolutly awesome (aka. DA:2/Skyrim baby!)

Dragon Age 1, I tried, and can't finish, because it makes me sleepy, on the other hand, Skyrim, just thinking about makes my heart pumping... I don't want NPCs to tell their life stories when I just want to buy something...

Susan Arendt:

Yeah, I know. But I'm not going to pretend I don't like a game simply because some intolerant people shout at me. I understand why the game let some people down, and I don't think the storyline was nearly as interesting if you weren't playing as a mage or a templar, but anyone who goes berserk because I dare claim it's a fun game aren't really worth paying attention to, as far as I'm concerned. If you want me to respect that your reasons for disliking the game are valid, then you need to show me similar respect though I hold the opposing point of view.

Don't get me wrong - I agree with what you're saying completely.
I think its more that I'm growing tired of this whole hate on BioWare train that everyone seems to be one these days, and especially in the case of DA2.

I mean seriously - all you have to do these days is write something about DA2 - doesn't matter what - then BOOM! All of a sudden anything else you mentioned or the actual point you were trying to make doesn't matter - everyone comes in running to hate on DA2. Its really to the point where you can't have any sort of worthwhile conversation on the topic and it irritates the hell out of me.

Is wanting a little intelligent discourse on the internet asking too much?
(No don't answer that!)

Sarmos:
I guess it's one of the flaws of the internet that it gives everyone an ability to voice they're.... "displeasure" at anything that even irks them at the slightest, when people here can post about ideas that would be absolutly awesome (aka. DA:2/Skyrim baby!)

Really its that people tend to blow things out of proportion on the internet - if a game have something that bugs you ITS THE WORST THING EVER AND RUINED THE GAME AND THE DEVELOPER SOLD OUT AND THE PUBLISHER KILLS KITTENS FOR FUN!!!!!!!!! I've never really understood the need to immediately jump to extremes that seems to be so prevalent on the interwebs.

I mean have some perspective people. If the worst thing you have to complain about is that you don't like waves in DA2 then life is good.

Skyrim with Dragon Age 1 characters would make more sense to me. Morrigan, Alistair and Sten FTW! Combined with The Witcher morality and choice system and you get the formula for best RPG ever made.

cynicalsaint1:

Really its that people tend to blow things out of proportion on the internet - if a game have something that bugs you ITS THE WORST THING EVER AND RUINED THE GAME AND THE DEVELOPER SOLD OUT AND THE PUBLISHER KILLS KITTENS FOR FUN!!!!!!!!! I've never really understood the need to immediately jump to extremes that seems to be so prevalent on the interwebs.

Thinking Dragon Age 2 is a bad game and a sign of Bioware's declining quality isn't even close to that poor straw man you just erected.

I've been saying this for quite some time but slightly altered. You see, I want Bethesda's lore and environments, Obsidian's story and characters, and BioWare's presentation. Bethesda makes fantastic worlds that are memorable, Obsidian writes the best stories and most interesting characters, while BioWare is able to make me care about anything, thanks to their excellent mastery of the art of presentation.

I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite idea on the citadel.

Susan Arendt:
The Skyrim/Dragon Age Baby

Blending the locations of Skyrim and the characters of Dragon Age 2 would make one damn fine RPG.

Read Full Article

Great article and sentiments. Though I have played DA2, I haven't played any of the Elder Scrolls games. There were a a few times that I watched my brother play Oblivion on his PC, I wanted to play it but I never had the money to upgrade my PC. At the time I had just got my XBox 360, but getting Oblivion on it, for some reason, never came to mind(probably didn't know it was ported to the 360 at the time).

I have to agree the best part of DA2 is the conversations and interacting with each person, and I could see actual changes in the characters major and small, and not just from the tone of their speech. I could see it in their eyes, facial expressions, and other movements. On top of that the conversation quality was top notch. If somebody needed help, instead of just saying it and then giving brief location and job info, they would give full descriptions of the problem and side info about themselves or the other person they wanted help for and how the person might act, plus back history at times. To me, it was best-selling book type dialogue, rich and immersive.

I will, however, get a chance to experience Skyrim, my brother told me that he is getting it for me for Christmas for my 360. Yeah!!

This one guy:
Nono it wouldn't

What's the point of saying that if you aren't going to qualify it? I would say that is a low content post.

Edit:

Thoric485:
Haha, no.

Same question above I asked the other guy.

I'm guess Susan doesn't have any understanding of the Elder Scrolls Lore.

SpaceMedarotterX:

Susan that was a good one, see for a moment I was actually convinced for a second that you were serious. But then I realized that would be positivly ridiculous, because nobody in their right mind would ever, under any circumstances, for any amount of money, suggest that Dragon Age 2 had good characters.

Normally I would say that for free, but if somebody was offering money, I would ask for $40,000 to pay off my student loans.

But seeing as getting money that way would never happen, I will just say it because I truly believe it so, Dragon Age 2 has good characters.

They genuinely made me laugh(Varric of course for the most part, also Isabella). They also invoked emotions in me, like love(Merrill) and anger/hate for other characters(like Anders), and I also wish they would have made Aveline fully romance-able, because I really liked her as well.

When I think of good characters, I think of characters that can make me feel and act the way I do when I am interacting with the characters of DA2.

I feel that the party members from DA2 were worlds better than the ones from DA:Origins. The Origins party members where rather bland and hated them not for anything they did in game in a immersion sense, but in the area that they were cookie cutter cliche. Pretty much all were the cliche, person that travels with hero and their outlook on things in the world are changed because of him. I'm tired of people thinking that all characters have to grow and change through out a story. In real life, most people don't change their core world view, ever.

innocentEX:
I'm guess Susan doesn't have any understanding of the Elder Scrolls Lore.

What does that have to do with anything? Qualify your statement.

Susan was talking about the characters she encountered in Skyrim:

The people that populate Skyrim are wooden quest dispensers that couldn't be more boring if they quoted actuary tables at me.

What does that have to do with Elder Scrolls lore? Is there something in the lore that says that something has struck people in the world stupid so that they act barely real in the sense that they aren't deeply characterized?

Her point was that Skyrim would be an even better game if it's characters were like Dragon Age 2 characters, because Dragon Age 2 characters, even small/mini quest characters, were deeply characterized. They just didn't just say stuff like, "I need help. I'll pay you, this is what you have to do."

DA2 characters tell you their names, tell you how certain things came to pass, how people you encounter might react, the name of the possible person you might be looking for and their relation to the speaker and how they got along, and the characters would also throw in how they felt about you and the world around you and many other random things. It makes you feel like you are talking to an actual person who has feelings/emotions and has a real life in that world.

SpaceMedarotterX:
How the fuck can I be nostalgic about a game I played a month ago? And no, it has nothing to do with how hard it is to get to KNOW a character, it has to do with how that character is, how you interact with them, how they tie into you.

So enlighten me then, why are the characters in Planescape: Torment so good? As mentioned, two are simply archetypes of the D&D Law/Chaos alignment system.

I'll admit that since every RPG seems to need a wisecracker character Morte was one of the least offensive, but beyond that I don't really see anything truly sparkling.

True, there were some excellent minor characters too, I'm just not seeing the order of magnitude here.

SpaceMedarotterX:
And I love how you can state "Well DA2's characters are good" while utterly failing to provide any argument as to WHY they are good, while I have stated, again and again, why they are terrible wastes of space.

You've provided one rant. I'd hardly call that 'again and again'.

Your complaint about Anders comes down to 'but he's different! from how he is in Awakening'. As I've said, being different from an emotionally dead wisecracker with ADD is not necessarily a bad thing. People can rewrite their own intellectual property, they aren't being cruel to their own fictional creations by doing so.

I romanced Anders, I enjoyed it too. It felt like the least worst option in some ways, but it made sense and actually had some emotional teeth once act 3 kicked in. If you take liking a character as wanting to go and have a drink with them, then I didn't, but I think there's more to it than that.

I would talk about Merrill but.. hang on.. Morrigan as a positive example? I get that she almost had her ridiculously shaped tits out and that holds appeal with some people, but she is a two dimensional archetype so transparent and laughable that it actually makes no sense. She advises every single 'evil' choice, even when it's entirely nonsensical or inconsistent.

* She claims to hate religion, but advises you to side with Kolgrim when he's standing around ranting crazily about Andraste (and no, she doesn't know he's a dragon cultist).
* She claims the chantry are zealots, but then wants to side with the Templars to destroy the mages because, despite being in a state of rebellion at that very moment, they're apparently slaves who don't deserve to live.
* Despite this, she advises you to free Jowan, despite him being the whiniest most self loathing little peon in human history and openly explaining that he's a blood mage.

Also, her romance fucking irritated me, because despite supposedly being strong and confident and sexually liberated it takes her all of 10 minutes to fall in love with the warden simply because he puts his nob in her.

And this is good writing?

Merrill comes across as incredibly stupid, I'll give you that. However, I get the feeling she's kind of meant to, I merely suspect someone overdid it when they were writing her dialogue. As far as I'm concerned though, she could be a dog throwing up in a bucket and she would still have more motive for her actions than Morrigan.

Aveline and Varric are actually really good.. the former in particular is literally the most well-executed 'butch/masculated' female character I can remember seeing in a game and managed rather beautifully to step around all the generic 'tomboy' cliches. That's worth something.

Fenris I'm with you on. The same goes for Isabella, who seems to have become a living receptacle for the soulless vacuum which inhabited Anders in Awakening.

However.. the Hawke twins.. seriously, I can't believe how many people seem to have written them off. How often do supporting characters get a genuine character arc, as opposed to simply a series of optional dialogues or a side quest, and you just dismissed them because they act too much like real people and that makes them boring?

Minor spoilers might come out here.

I'm less impressed by Bethany, I'll admit, because she's a little 'cute', but her arc is still pretty much perfect. She's your younger sister, she looks up to you to protect her, and pretty much whatever option you take you fail in that regard. Precisely how bitter she is depends on your relationship with her, but regardless, she takes it pretty badly. Assuming she survives, she is then forced to become a much stronger and more independent person, until by the very end she makes her own choices and treats you much more as an equal. Simple. Beautiful. Makes total sense with how her character is established.

Carver is fucking great. I'll come out and say that now. Yes, he doesn't like you, he is extremely jealous of you. Being an older sibling IRL is not always a very harmonious place to be. As with Bethany, however, it is theoretically possible to change that relationship over the course of act 1, and it does have consequences.

Like Bethany, Carver is extremely immature at the beginning of the game. He's morally weak, he's desperate for acceptance and actually he's a bit of a coward, his realization of his own impending death is a far cry from the normal 'go on without me' or gallows humour bollocks which seems to characterize every other Bioware character in a life or death situation, and thus is actually convincing. It's how a real person might act in that situation.

Also like Bethany, Carver grows enormously by the end of the game and ultimately overcomes these flaws - it's a little sudden, especially if the take the full rivalry path, but it nonetheless makes a great deal of sense.

This is character development. It's fairly simple character development rendered in broad strokes, but still better than just about any RPG character who simply exists as a soulless extension of the players will, i.e. most of them.

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