Jimquisition: Hardcore Hypocrisy

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I totally agree but for me to truly feel like I am enjoying a game I need at least a D pad and an A and B button, I've had fun with Iphone games but the touch screen just doesn't do it for me, especially if I'm going to be playing for more than a few minutes.

Didn't Jim do another episode on the same subject? Seems familiar to me... But anyway he's right yet again. And what's more anyone who says smartphones games are all "shallow" are ignorant fools. There's countless deep and long games out there if you look for them. The RPG category on iTunes is full of them. And don't forget several of the early Final Fantasy games have been ported on to iOS. So have the DS remakes.

Daystar Clarion:
Still doesn't explain why you gave Mario Kart that score for 'not changing anything', then MW3 ended up with a very high score.

No, the reviews explained that.

You should read 'em sometime.

I don't hate casual games.

I hate the industry for dumbing so many games down so that those smug, middle class cunts in those video excerpts might consider playing them.

The industry is in love with the idea that their games will gain wider recognition and acceptability - which translates either into being played at parties by 'non-gamers' or, on the flipside, being played by the multiplayer jock crowd - how else explain Bioware's desperate whoring to multiplayer other than their acceptance of the stereotype that single player is for nerds, brah... Each is as bad as the other.

Elitism is common to all forms of social structures in people.

Im not sure why that is, but it is ingrained in people as to a establish a pecking order.

I cant seriously fault or blame people that do this, because it is what they are taught their whole lives.

In order to be considered exceptional and admired you have to "raise these supposed standards", I cant fault people with this line of thought, because I would be Hypocrite myself, since everyone at one time or another takes this stance.

Jimothy Sterling:

Daystar Clarion:
Still doesn't explain why you gave Mario Kart that score for 'not changing anything', then MW3 ended up with a very high score.

No, the reviews explained that.

You should read 'em sometime.

You're right, I was wrong to bring it up here.

I apologise.

Deviate:
snip

Just wanted to note that Deviate already said much of what I would. I, too, grew up with the Commodore 64 (and Atari 2600... And text adventures on my sister's Atari 800 with its cassette deck.) And while I feel a rosy glow of nostalgia when I play a game like Pac-Man or Space Invaders, it bears notice that those games came from an era when there was a real fear that the pizza-parlor customers might be baffled by a joystick and one button and, to steal a line from Douglas Adams, people still thought digital watches were a pretty neat idea.

I have no quarrel with Infinity Blade; I've never played it, I don't own a single iOS product, so it would be silly of me to pass judgement. But I certainly get why some people, especially the people who did indeed grow up in the NES era or before, might feel a certain frustration with the "casual market", if not necessarily with casual gamers themselves. Having learned all the complexities of new interfaces and technology, there's a real fear that our "time in the trenches" is going to be lost to a trend towards simpler interfaces, smaller screens, and less powerful hardware (that are, not coincidentally, far cheaper to design for.)

For myself, I have to confess that while I've played some cell phone games that were great fun, there haven't been any that I would trade for Mass Effect or Saints Row the Third or Command and Conquer. I spent a fair amount of time the last week playing the Droid version of the board game Settlers of Catan, and while the game itself is involving, there's still the frustration of going "No, build there. No, there. There, you imbecile... Do I need to borrow my daughter's fingers?"

Great strides have been made in optimizing touch-screen interfaces, but I refuse to pretend that they're the equal of a gamepad or a mouse and keyboard. While I'm happy to have "casual" and "hardcore" markets coexist, however you'd choose to define them, it's not entirely without merit to wonder if we're in danger of the market deciding for us "We've perfected the ranch house, so no need to build skyscrapers or cathedrals anymore."

MrLumber:
I'm really hoping that entire thing was sarcastic, because Jim's misconception of the word deep (or at least in the usual gamer lingo 'deep', which I assume he's using) is rather astounding. I think had he used the word 'complex' instead this entire thing would make sense, because yes, more complexity does not inherently make a better game. Depth, on the other hand, is an entirely different beast and IS what separates good games from bad 90%-100% of the time.

I didn't get that at all. I assumed by "deep" he meant "AAA title with pretensions to being a Hollywood movie because it has a feature-film level production budget and an overly elaborate plot" as opposed to "game with simple straightforward mechanics and no real need for complicated narrative."

Sometimes I'm in the mood to watch Citizen Kane or The Godfather or Inception. But sometimes I just want to watch an episode of Big Bang Theory. Not every movie has to be Citizen Kane. And I really don't like movies that think they're Citizen Kane but are actually closer to Big Bang Theory (cough, cough--Vanilla Sky--cough). I sure as hell would rather play a "casual" game that's fun and has no pretensions about being something it's not than some overhyped AAA epic with a shallow narrative that thinks it's the second coming.

Well, I admit I didn't watch the whole episode because quite frankly, I don't care about Jims new obsession with gaming on telephones.

Jim, I like buttons and I fuckin hate touch screens. I play the shit out of my DS and PSP so I am not against handheld gaming but I LIKE BUTTONS. I don't play DS games that require use of the touch screen. I paid $170 for my DSi XL and I have no desire to scratch up my screen trying to roll into a tree. I like the dual screens, that what I love about the DS. I don't like the touch screen or the microphone or the cameras.

My biggest thing is, why would I play a hardcore game on a touchscreen when I can play a hardcore game with buttons? No, I don't mean virtual buttons either, real buttons give physical feedback.

I liked this episode, it reminded me of when I was a kid. To be honest tho, Mario is a lot more hardcore than games like Doom and Wolfenstein. My mom beat those games back in their day, but was never able to get into Mario. Now she plays Bejeweled and Zuma.

Canyoureadmydeadpan:
I usually can't stand the Jimquisition, but he's had a pretty good month of videos thus far. Keep it up.

You do know that the whole "Thank god for me" thing is just a joke right? You'd be surprised at how many people didn't get that at first.

I really enjoyed Infinity Blade. I havent played 2, but 1 was such a good game. I liked how I could play it for 5 mins at a time and just play every so often, it was short intense and just plain fun.

MonkeyPunch:
Does anyone actually consider themselves a hardcore, or casual gamer?
Seems a bit two dimensional and restrictive...

I have seen some of these very forums who do indeed clasify themselves as "hardcore gamers". Thats why I use my own definitions which is a lot simplier them most, all you have to do is ask two simple questions.

1) Do you play games?
2) Are you a flaming douchbag.

If you answered yes to number one and two then congratulations you are a hardcore gamer. If you answered yes to number one and no to two then congratulations you get to live. If however you answered no to question number one then well the tiger is behind do number three.

sordcooper:
a bit tangential, but the only real gripes i have with IOS games are not that they're too simple. or that they're too casual; its that i cant get them on my pc! seriously! i would fling money at my laptop hard enough to blow a hole through it if i could get a pc compatible version for angry birds or infinity blade!... and no i wont buy an i-phone.... unless apple makes a deal with bethesda and you can buy an apple pip boy...

Sorry, just as a point, I have a version of Angry Birds I play on my pc, Im sorry I cant remember where I got it, but evidentially they released it :)

I don't play video games often, but when I do it's things like TES, New Vegas and Planescape: Torment. Is there a name for this?

I play RPGs, JRPGs, Puzzle, Brain, FPS, TPS, MMORPG, RTS, Stealth/Espionage, Action, Adventure, Action/Adventure, Music/Rhythm, Racing, Sports, Fighting. I play both 'hardcore' and 'casual' games, so what does that make me? A gamer, it doesn't matter what classification you use for the game, I am a gamer.

I find it odd that in the human search for a conflict of 'us' vs. 'them' (gamers vs non-gamers) gamers have always had this other conflict of "us" 'us' vs. "them" 'us' (console wars, hardcore vs casual). And then it isn't enough for some gamers and we have the 'US' "us" 'us' vs. THEM' "us" 'us' (genre wars, because that makes sense). AND EVEN THEN some are not satisfied with the conflict and we have the "US" 'US' "us" 'us' vs. "THEM" 'US' "us" 'us' (Brawl vs Melee). And to go even further, we have the US "US" 'US' "us" 'us' vs. THEM "US" 'US' "us" 'us' (the run and gunners of MW3 vs. the campers of MW3). It is a wonder why people even hope for world peace when we can't even find peace within the gamer community. We're on the same side and yet we still need to fight against each other. People, we are running out of sand to draw lines in.

I agree except for his statements on Infinity Blade being a 'pure' video game. I agree completely with the sentement, but not what the statement represents.
There IS NO SUCH THIS. It IS a video game, or it ISN'T. There is nothing in between. Plants Versus Zombies, Angry Birds, and even Desert Bus (if you are the most boring person in the world) are just as valid titles as Bioshock, Half Life 2 or Team Fortress 2. If it uses computer or digital programing, as long as it has interactivity, and was made and released as a video game, it can not be called anything but, to do so is simply wrong.

Games are for fun.

I think is the last jimquisition I'll be watching for a while. His persona is getting stale.

Well this is nothing but a giant strawman. Herpderp some ancient game was similar and its considered classic so if we make simplistic games now they too should be classics too derp. Its classic because it was good for its time. Then was then now is now. And i dont even give a shit about pacman or punch out. Jesus fuck.

Mmm, personally I see myself as somewhere between hardcore and casual, and while I have no interest in mobile phone or tablet games at the moment, I have nothing against them.

Right as usual. I got nothing more to add.

In short: Respect your roots son!

Infinaty Blade looks fun on the bun. Funny how the more simpler games make you feel like such a badass as its more reliant on you where as the more complicated games tend to have a set way to do something.

Mario is simple, but I'm not sure I'd call it casual or accessible. If I was trying to hook someone onto gaming these days, I wouldn't start with a game based on memorization and tricking/trapping the player into dying.

I wouldn't introduce someone to card games with fucking 52 pick-up...

edit: I've always figured hardcore as a function of time spent playing, not game type. Those types of gamers may gravitate towards certain kids of games, but it is effect, not cause.

I like your videos Jim, but I am afraid the iOS defense is getting a little bit repetitive. Most of what you said here, you already said in "Steve Jobs and iOS -- Videogame Related" and in "Angry Birds is not Shit". I still enjoy your videos, but in this week was so-so.

I'm not condescending enough to say that casual games are inherently bad, and people should feel bad for liking them. I have Super Mario Bros. Wii sitting on my shelf about 4 feet away. I also have Dark Souls sitting over there as well for when I want something a little more involved.

Nothing wrong with enjoying the best of both worlds. I just think all the hate on casual games/gamers comes from the irrational fear that this "new" genre is what every developer is going to be developing for. Angry Birds is a silly "time waster" game for when you're on the bus to wherever, still holds up to the standards to be considered a real game, but is that all I want to play? Of course not.

But this fear is not completely off. Look at the staggering amount of absolute crap games on the Wii. I don't want the market to jump the bandwagon and forget how to make more involved games. I don't think anyone does.

I'm not saying that's where it's going to go of course. Square Enix will still be making JRPG's, Activision will continue milking CoD for all it's worth, but all this hate on casual gamers just seems to be an overreaction on our part. That's it.

Saippua:
Well this is nothing but a giant strawman. Herpderp some ancient game was similar and its considered classic so if we make simplistic games now they too should be classics too derp. Its classic because it was good for its time. Then was then now is now. And i dont even give a shit about pacman or punch out. Jesus fuck.

So when you said "this," I assume you were describing your own post? Or are you suffering from that same "self awareness" problem Jim mentioned with the "Casual Shooter" thing?

4173:
Mario is simple, but I'm not sure I'd call it casual or accessible. If I was trying to hook someone onto gaming these days, I wouldn't start with a game based on memorization and tricking/trapping the player into dying.

I wouldn't introduce someone to card games with fucking 52 pick-up...

I can't speak for every new Mario, but The original SMB and SMB 3 both qualify as "shit my mom" played. And my dad, too.

My mom also seemed to have no problem with Super Mario Galaxy, despite having not played a video game since like 1989 or so. And she's not exactly the type of person you expect to dive into video games.

Does that make it the rule? No, but it does make it hard for me to buy the notion that a Mario game is a poor introduction.

I don't have a problem with iOS games or casual games, I just dont think theyre that good or most of the time.

What was that game pixelated 2d platforming game Jim showed when he was talking about ios games? It looked quite cool.

Zachary Amaranth:

Saippua:
Well this is nothing but a giant strawman. Herpderp some ancient game was similar and its considered classic so if we make simplistic games now they too should be classics too derp. Its classic because it was good for its time. Then was then now is now. And i dont even give a shit about pacman or punch out. Jesus fuck.

So when you said "this," I assume you were describing your own post? Or are you suffering from that same "self awareness" problem Jim mentioned with the "Casual Shooter" thing?

4173:
Mario is simple, but I'm not sure I'd call it casual or accessible. If I was trying to hook someone onto gaming these days, I wouldn't start with a game based on memorization and tricking/trapping the player into dying.

I wouldn't introduce someone to card games with fucking 52 pick-up...

I can't speak for every new Mario, but The original SMB and SMB 3 both qualify as "shit my mom" played. And my dad, too.

My mom also seemed to have no problem with Super Mario Galaxy, despite having not played a video game since like 1989 or so. And she's not exactly the type of person you expect to dive into video games.

Does that make it the rule? No, but it does make it hard for me to buy the notion that a Mario game is a poor introduction.

I've seen kids that can play the shit out of an FPS but can't beat World 8-3 because of the Hammer Bros. In other words, modern day hardcore games aren't as hardcore as older Mario games.

We're a tribal species. Anything different than us scares us, so we find reasons to hate it. We're also an entitled species that feels everything must be what we want and how we want it, thus overly defend our favorites, while deriding all others.

Anyone that denies a difference between a "casual" and "hardcore" gamer is fooling themselves. I've been asked what I was playing a lot, only to get weird looks from people that just know bejeweled, even for something as basic as Dragon Quest, let alone some of the more "out there" JRPGs. One yesterday didn't even know the term RPG, leaving me with the task of trying to explain Fate/Extra in 60 seconds, all just to make conversation. I have nothing against causal gamers or casual games, but there is a line, just as there are big big readers, and people that only read Harry Potter and the Da Vinci Code.

And we need to find a balance between the two. I understand the fear people have: that just as TV has been rotted down to endless reality shows, talent contests, and the antics of former stars, that we'll see further Skyrims, and more Bejeweled knockoffs. Yet, I have the fear we'll win, and videogaming can go the way of comic book: an industry dying for revenues because there aren't enough hardcore fans to support it, but those same fans won't let things become accessable. Yes, we need casual games to get people started, but we also need games that move them foreward. Infinity Blade to whatever sounds good for that.

Frostbite3789:

Mr. Omega:
1: @0:21-0:36 I believe the proper name for this subset is "PC Gamers."

You're trying really hard to get flamed, aren't you?

Just go through all his posts and find every instance of hypocrisy in which he flames, acts smug or superior to PC gamers for being arrogant asswipes. No matter how often people prove him wrong, he just ignores it and continues on his crusade.

Daystar Clarion:
Still doesn't explain why you gave Mario Kart that score for 'not changing anything', then MW3 ended up with a very high score.

You know Call of Duty right? That thing that gets repackaged every year?

I'm not a fan of Mario Kart myself, in fact, I prefer CoD to MK, but to see such a huge scoring difference is bizarre.

Because if you actually look BEYOND the superficial, then MW3 has been a brilliant addition.

I've taken a look at the weapons stats and you know they are really really impressive how they have been balanced. The mathematics of it is quite impressive as at times its like a card game like blackjack only you are adding up to 100 rather than 21 in choosing the ideal weapon to take people down quickest without being redundant.

Its got so many great little quirks and has such significant differences from weapon to weapon like the difference between a rifle that deals 35 damage or 49 damage or 45 damage that really matter when factoring in cover-penetration, ballistic armour and the new killstreak of juggernaut.

Then you have the hugely variable recoil-profiles and hipfire patterns, movement speeds, ADS times. It all makes for a really good game. And more than that a DIFFERENT game! Yeah, the premise and pace is very similar but you DO have to think about the depth in such different ways.

It is SUCH an improvement over Black Ops that had such incredibly similar weapons. Raging Amish complained bitterly about how all the weapons he tested so many were clones of each other. But he has said that is definitely not the case here with MW3, every weapon seems to have a completely unique playstyle and strategy.

The perk structure is now so well defined. In MW2 for almost every single class there was very little reason to use anything other than "Slight-of-hand + Stopping-power + Steady-Aim". MW3 things have been changed around so much every weapon really does need a completely different perk setup.

I haven't played Mario Kart of 3DS but looking at the reviews for it and the Wii version, it does not indicate the many small but critical differences that have been made to improve the COD series. I can understand how from a distance it looks like both games franchises have done the same thing, but I think it may be the case that Mario Kart 7 has failed on the important details.

These last string of Jimquisition videos have been some of the best IMO. Looking forward to it every week.

I remember my roots. Every time I get fustrated by loading ques I play some classic sonic or tetris.

MonkeyPunch:
Does anyone actually consider themselves a hardcore, or casual gamer?
Seems a bit two dimensional and restrictive...

I consider myself a casual hardcore gamer, I love games, but don't dedicate my life to them. There's very little I wont at least try.

Daystar Clarion:
Still doesn't explain why you gave Mario Kart that score for 'not changing anything', then MW3 ended up with a very high score.

You know Call of Duty right? That thing that gets repackaged every year?

I'm not a fan of Mario Kart myself, in fact, I prefer CoD to MK, but to see such a huge scoring difference is bizarre.

Any game can be as hardcore or as casual as you make it. Mario, for most people, is a casual experience, but there will always be the speed run fanatics.

I take it that you've seen that one video that shows the same building being used in every CoD game they've made, right?

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