Skyward Sword

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I loved the Zelda series in the past,but the way the series is turning the last years is not of my liking.Yatzhee is doing well criticizing the series and I'm not a hater for saying that,actually I'm a Zelda fan that thinks that Nintendo should hear some nasty words from a popular publication in case they start caring for player's feedback more.

I got in to the series playing Ocarina of Time at its time in Nintendo 64,and after that I played Majora's Mask.
Ocarina of Time was a phenomenal game for its age ecxelling in all departments like graphics,music,gameplay and story.But Ocarina of Time spoiled me.I thought that innovations like that where a usual thing for the series,but I was wrong.
When the next game of the series,Majora's Mask came out I was even more impressed with the series and I liked the turn the series where getting at.

Majora's mask too had pretty decent graphics for its age,very good soundtrack,and gameplay-wise it had lots of rpg elements.The number and quality of the sidequests where greately improved,and the AI for the npcs was outstanding for its era.Npcs had had routines and did different things in different times of the day as we see in Skyrim.

The tone of these 2 N64 games was very dark I say.
In Ocarina of Time we watched persons dying,villages getting burned,and there was even a zombie attack at Hyrule's Castle Town!
In Majora's Mask we see people dying too,being cursed,and of course there is always this moon above you that is about to fall of,and you have that feel that the lives of the people in this world are actually depended on you.

In a frame of 3-4 years I only played these 2 Zelda games and I have come to expect similar experiences and standards from these series in the later games..
But Nintendo seemed to kept the things I wasn't really interested for,and dropped what made these games special for me.

Zelda games after the two N64 games changed much:

*The stories of the newer games doesn't follow the events of the two N64 games.
They aren't sequels,they just have the same looks and names for the characters and some of the same game mechanics.So the Link I play as in Wind Waker or Twilight Princess has nothing to do with the Link I play as in OoT and MM.That's bad.Because I loved Link from the N64 games,and he is my favourite Link ever.

*The series gradually lost their more mature and dark tone.
I feel that newer Zelda games are more "kid friendly" than past ones and this is for a variety of reasons.The art direction and color pallete is more cartoony/anime than ever,and curses and death is being wiped out of the series.It feels more like kid's game than a teen's game.

*Nintendo stopped careing about graphics.
Yeah gameplay might be more important than graphics,but still graphics are an important factor than can make as enjoy games more or less. Super Nintendo was able to render better graphics than Sega Mega Drive,N64 could render better graphics than Playstation,and Gamecube could render better graphics than PS2,but Wii broke the tradition and its graphics aren't acceptable by today's standards.Harsh but true.

*Gameplay was dumbed.
Yeah,I know that some Zelda fans will tell me "It was the n64 games that broke Zelda gameplay and became more complex!Link's Awakening was as simple as Skyward's Sword and it was fine!".But dear fan let me inform you that Link's Awakening was simplier at a time that games in general where much simplier than that.Ocarina of Time brought a variety of brand new mechanics and some of them have been kept until today as they where,others where simplified,and some others completely vanished from the series.None of them was improved.

*Less side-quests,nerfed A.I.,less secrets,less unique items,and less easter eggs.
When I talk about the number and quality of side-quests in Majora's Mask,or the A.I. interactions of the npcs,the usual reply I have come to expect from Zelda fanboys is that "Zelda is not an RPG!It doesn't need AI for its npcs or Side-Quests!"
Well my dear friend you are only partly right.Zeldas are being described as "action adventure" games by Nintendo currently,but back in older days there was a time when Zelda was described as an action rpg game by many players AND magazines.Actually there where huge arguments on wether Zelda is a pure RPG series,or an Action Adventure series with considerable amounts of RPG features.The only things that Zelda was missing to be called "RPG" by everybody was that the player wouldn't gain XP points from monsters and that combat wasn't turn-based.Everything else that RPGs had was there: An open explorable world,npcs who do things in the world and give quests,gradual item discovery,gradual empowerment of the character's abilities,dungeons,monsters, swords, magic, caves.. You need to learn that ZELDA was the game that actually FOUNDED the term "Action RPG".
Before Zelda all RPG games where turn-based and most of them linear. If you can play Skyrim today and go wherever you want and have real-time combat it's because of Zelda.
So give a rest to the argument "Zelda doesn't need side quests or AI for its npcs" or I will eat you!
So after this small history lesson let's go back to the topic: Majora's Mask had a big (for its time) number of side-quests.I loved that.And I was actually expecting an imrpovement in both number and quality of side-quests in the next games.
But gradually their number was lessened,and their importance was minimized.Twilight Princess had less side-quests than the fingers of my arms,and where completely unimportant.
Along with that the actual content was minimized too.Less items,less easter eggs,less things to discover in general,which leads to less hours of gameplay.

These points considerably changed how I view the series.
Modern Zelda games lack the darkness,the maturity,the depth,the graphics,and the gameplay I loved and had come to expect.Don't wander if you find that most Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask fans, when they are not playing Ocarina of Time 3D they play games like Skyrim over Skyward Sword.Zelda was the first series to do some great things but in the course of history the franchise abandoned some of the things that made it special and only kept some known story events that by now are cliche and dull.While Zelda was leaving what invented behind (Action RPG Legacy) other series that started much later than Zelda,have taken Zelda's legacy and advanced it in a state that it surpasses the orignal series who founded the legacy.
From the first week of Skyrim's release a mod that allowes you to play as Link came out,and modders are working on bringing all kind of Zelda elements and items in... Skyrim.
The master sword,the hero's shield,Majora's Moon,even Gorons and Zoras are imported to Skyrim.
Let this be a lesson to Nintendo that ignoring their hardcore fans and abandoning winner gameplay formulas they invented themselves is a bad thing.

Mr. Omega:
On the motion controls thing: just him complaining.

It's a fair complaint, though. It's like video game companies sat down an all agreed that they need to find a way to make the age-old "It's the controller's fault" complaint that sore losers make into a valid gripe. Well good for them I guess, we've created games in which it is genuinely the controller's fault if you lose... now can we go back to the control method that just works, please?

Did you even look at Links face when he fought Ghirahim the last time? Did you just ignore the hate in Links eyes?

I couldn't ever look at Link's face without laughing. I mean, how could you possibly take that seriously? He looks just like a creepy flanderization of the late Michael Jackson. It's truly an astonishing achievement that they went with a bright cartoonish style and *still* managed to invoke the uncanny valley.

Anyway, I didn't finish the game because I literally could not play the harp strumming section. Where you have to wave your arm back and forth in rhythm? I did the postman's side quest in Majora's Mask first try, and I spent three hours waving my arm back and forth (and giving myself quite the shoulder injury in the process that still hasn't gone away) with no effect. I couldn't do it. Did anyone have as hard of a time with this as I did?

It's probably for the best I stopped playing at that point anyway: From what I've read about the game, shortly after this they bring back the stupid "run away from invincible enemies who can one-hit-kill you" from Phantom Hourglass. I can hardly imagine anything less fun.

By the way, just to let all my fellow Fi-haters know, you can use an action replay code to completely remove her from the game. And it is awesome.

I never understood all the hate for Wind Waker. It was the most insteresting Zelda game after Link to the Past. And I haven't been really interested about Zelda game since. As someone who has only tried the newer games, they seem really "samey". Windwaker didn't have that for one. It felt pretty unique.

Arppis:
I never understood all the hate for Wind Waker. It was the most insteresting Zelda game after Link to the Past. And I haven't been really interested about Zelda game since. As someone who has only tried the newer games, they seem really "samey". Windwaker didn't have that for one. It felt pretty unique.

There isn't much to do besides going around. Back in the Brutal legends zero punctuation Yahtzee Said that open world sandbox games make things less focused in other words, slop games. His opinion certainly changed, but what not changed is the fact that the open world sandbox factor make the games more slop and WW is the most sandboxist Zelda game.

I really couldn't agree with you more, Yahtzee. I don't mind when a new Zelda game is roughly equal in quality to the ones that came before it, but SS just failed massively. I never got over how everything looked like plastic and how none of the environments were detailed.

I got Skyward Sword for Christmas, so I only just started it, but for the most part I already agree with your review. The motion controls using that stupid motion plus make the game more tiring to play, limiting my sessions, and that FUCKING BIRD is so annoying to control! Having to hold the stupid controller level so I can steer the thing like a fucking boat is only slightly less annoying than having to re-calibrate the stupid thing every 5 minutes. This game would have been better if there were options for a classic control scheme, or even regular motion controls, OR EVEN A FUCKING LEFT HAND TOGGLE!

Motion plus is a failed experiment, good in theory and sporting very nice technology, but tedious and tiring to use in practice, I hope future games flatly ignore the stupid thing and allows it to fade into obscurity like that wii heart monitor.

I've never played any Zelda games beyond A Link to the Past on the GBA. In fact, I'll say the GBC, GBA and NDS were the best gaming system purchases other than my PC, but I never played any Nintendo games. Frankly, in 2011, I would not pay 50 bucks for a game like Skyward Sword. Beyond the nostalgia factor of growing up with the series, sorry, there simply isn't much worth to it.

I don't mind a few silly quests here and there in my RPG games but lets be real here. This is Nintendo's Champion heading into the new year? pay $50 for a game that covers a measly 3 dungeons and a game time that is 1/3 what it should be, with volumes of substance missing and annoying sidekicks. No thanks I say. And its Zelda no less. Shouldn't it be, you know, indisputably the best latest installment? When did gamers start settling for mediocre games? Is it conditioning to accept the cheapening of a sturdy franchise that dates back to my own childhood? The fact that these arguments occur with validity is proof they blew it. "But wait!" they say, "You're not fairly judging the Wii motion controls." screw off with the Wii motion controls they were a novelty 3 years ago and now we have 3DS with more get up and go then a Wii these days. But enjoy yourselves and waste your money.

I have some flaws with this game too. Some of them aren't really flaws, but okay things Nintendo could've done better because they have the talent and resources.

Motion controls - This didn't add a lot to combat. Combat is still "run into enemy and attack as fast as you can." Except now I have to take a second to see which direction they're guarding? Why are enemies guarding most of the time anyways? I thought I would be getting into actual sword fights, not playing Simon says.

The world - Only three locations in the whole game, and you visit them three times. That's not a lot of variety compared to other Zelda games. Plus all the padding... yikes. The final song quest line killed any interest I had for another play through.

Upgrade system - Instead of doing something like a mini dungeon to upgrade our equipment we have to play Monster Hunter Lite. Errr... It works, but it feels like it doesn't belong in a Zelda game.

One complaint that usually gets directed at me at this juncture is that pointing out how samey the games are has become a tired argument. I fucking agree, it certainly has, and yet, the problem hasn't gone anywhere, so I'm going to keep using it.

No Yahtzee, it has gone somewhere. The fact that you don't want to notice it, doesn't change that.

Yes, I'm biased against motion controls, but that's just a sub-heading of the broader overall bias against games that aren't fun. I've been trying to figure out a quick, pithy, all-encompassing way to express my reasons for thinking that motion controls are poisonous to gaming, so I can bring my opinion across in conversation without having to rant for ten minutes, and I think I've come up with something I like: Motion controls are a system wherein a game can fail you for something that completely wasn't your fault. Like smacking an electrified sword because it was horizontal half a second ago and the game only just registered your horizontal swipe. There ya go.

Translation: I cannot work a Wiimote for crap.

There is no such delay. If anything, it's the enemies changing their blocking stance a little too quickly that's the problem, not the motion controls.

I guess I was hoping to end on an actual point, but I haven't got anything wittier than "Fuck you, Skyward Sword, and also fanboys."

This is elitism plain and simple. You can't accept the fact that people are not as pretentious and have absurdly high standards as you and therefore have to generalize everyone who doesn't agree with the actual fanboys. Seriously, I'm done with Yahtzee as far as Nintendo games go. I'm only watching the stuff from the other companies he reviews from now on because if he's not biased against Nintendo then he clearly is obsessed with enhancing his standards on how he critiques games whenever that company is under the chopping block. And I hate it when anyone does that to any company. (Yes even the companies that piss me off)

Stavros Dimou:
SNIP

I would agree with most things you wrote except the stopped caring about graphics and losing the darker tone.

N64 was much stronger than the PS1, same goes for the GameCube.
Both of them lost to PS 1 and PS 2. PS3 and XBOX 360 are several times stronger than the Wii. The Wii has won this generations "war".

They didn't really stop caring about the graphics. They just realized that the hardware needed for the today's graphics level is to expensive for a console. They did got a bit to much back. A middle-ground would be great. Between the Xbox 360 and the Wii.

The wanted to make the Wii as accessible as possible. This is the reason why they made is weaker. I agree that they overdid it.
But Nintendo also learned from that mistake (and hopefully from the PS3 and 3DS disaster) and they will not repeat it with the WiiU. You will see a lot article writing that the WiiU is barely stronger than the 360, which isn't true. It's much stronger. It will maybe be weaker than the next xbox or PS generation, but not much. Although I doubt it will be weaker.

About the dark tone, only Majora's Mask was darker toned. The rest was always children friendly.

But I still liked the game. The hero mode was a really challenge.

Edhellen:

Did you even look at Links face when he fought Ghirahim the last time? Did you just ignore the hate in Links eyes?

I couldn't ever look at Link's face without laughing. I mean, how could you possibly take that seriously? He looks just like a creepy flanderization of the late Michael Jackson. It's truly an astonishing achievement that they went with a bright cartoonish style and *still* managed to invoke the uncanny valley.

Really? Because I really liked his face. After Wind Waker, Skyward Sword has the best looking face. It's adorable.

"Yes, I'm biased against motion controls, but that's just a sub-heading of the broader overall bias against games that aren't fun."

"Prove me wrong, fans."

These are two of the most amateur statements I've ever seen from a reviewer.

Lordofthesuplex:

One complaint that usually gets directed at me at this juncture is that pointing out how samey the games are has become a tired argument. I fucking agree, it certainly has, and yet, the problem hasn't gone anywhere, so I'm going to keep using it.

No Yahtzee, it has gone somewhere. The fact that you don't want to notice it, doesn't change that.

Yes, I'm biased against motion controls, but that's just a sub-heading of the broader overall bias against games that aren't fun. I've been trying to figure out a quick, pithy, all-encompassing way to express my reasons for thinking that motion controls are poisonous to gaming, so I can bring my opinion across in conversation without having to rant for ten minutes, and I think I've come up with something I like: Motion controls are a system wherein a game can fail you for something that completely wasn't your fault. Like smacking an electrified sword because it was horizontal half a second ago and the game only just registered your horizontal swipe. There ya go.

Translation: I cannot work a Wiimote for crap.

There is no such delay. If anything, it's the enemies changing their blocking stance a little too quickly that's the problem, not the motion controls.

I guess I was hoping to end on an actual point, but I haven't got anything wittier than "Fuck you, Skyward Sword, and also fanboys."

This is elitism plain and simple. You can't accept the fact that people are not as pretentious and have absurdly high standards as you and therefore have to generalize everyone who doesn't agree with the actual fanboys. Seriously, I'm done with Yahtzee as far as Nintendo games go. I'm only watching the stuff from the other companies he reviews from now on because if he's not biased against Nintendo then he clearly is obsessed with enhancing his standards on how he critiques games whenever that company is under the chopping block. And I hate it when anyone does that to any company. (Yes even the companies that piss me off)

Hey you can take peoples words out of context, good for you.

Reviews are SUBJECTIVE. I find it annoying when people think that things like reviewing a game or movie can be done objectively, Of course personal bias comes into it every review done by anyone. This article was response to his frustration that fanboys once again got butthurt because he did not like one game.

Also he does not hate nintendo, He hates how they essentially pissed all over the hardcore fanbase for casual gamers, He liked Super Mario Galaxy, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, Earthbound, and the Mario RPGs

I don't really understand the complaints about Fi. Unlike certain previous companions, I actually found her to be useful. Enemy analysis almost always told me what I wanted to know. Rumors often led me to certain sidequests that I never would have found anyway. She doesn't really interrupt the gameplay very often. Her obvious advice usually come out in scripted events that would have happened anyway. I found her disposition to be unique and comical. She was data-oriented to the point of absurdity and I found to be humorous. It made me like her more...like when coming upon a Kikwi and she still gives a 5% possibility that it's Zelda.

As for motion controls, I like them as well. The problem, at least how I see it, is that it's a control scheme that calls for precision rather than waggling. If you flail around frantically, you'll of course hit things you don't meant to...or move the sword in a way you didn't intend. You aren't supposed to wave your arm at random...you're supposed to be aware of the position of your arm and swing accordingly. Some people just can't seem to get this. I've seen players continually jiggle to and fro for no reason and then complain that the game is nothing but shaking. Of course mindless motions will activate the controls, but the player is encouraged to be calm and precise. I think the controls were implemented well. My first time using Wii Motion Plus, so it took me a few minutes to get the hang of it, but I haven't had any problems since.

The game has objective flaws, but I don't think Fi or the motion controls are part of them. Fi is an interesting character for me and I think the controls are reasonably precise and intuitive.

"Reviews are SUBJECTIVE."

And yet Yahtzee uses terminology like 'Prove me wrong'. A reviewer shouldn't have to use personal bias or descriptions such as 'I hate motion controls because they aren't fun' to explain their view on a game. You should use as much objective fact as you can and try not to present your opinion as if it were concrete fact.

WhiteTigerShiro:
It's a fair complaint, though. It's like video game companies sat down an all agreed that they need to find a way to make the age-old "It's the controller's fault" complaint that sore losers make into a valid gripe. Well good for them I guess, we've created games in which it is genuinely the controller's fault if you lose... now can we go back to the control method that just works, please?

You'll never get the Zelda fans to agree, however. Well, the ones going after Yahtzee. Not only are the controls the epitome of motion gaming, but they have the reviews to prove it!

Control lag is one of the biggest issues I've had with the Wii's controls, and I've been told the problem is inherent in Kinect as well. Long as there's that kind of underlying problem, the number of refinements won't matter. I seriously hope this isn't the epitome of motion gaming, though, because my friends are reporting issues with the controls. but I'm sure they "just suck at it" or something.

Case in point up the page a bit. Yahtzee apparently "just sucks at" motion controls and there is no such thing as controller lag.

Zachary Amaranth:

WhiteTigerShiro:
It's a fair complaint, though. It's like video game companies sat down an all agreed that they need to find a way to make the age-old "It's the controller's fault" complaint that sore losers make into a valid gripe. Well good for them I guess, we've created games in which it is genuinely the controller's fault if you lose... now can we go back to the control method that just works, please?

You'll never get the Zelda fans to agree, however. Well, the ones going after Yahtzee. Not only are the controls the epitome of motion gaming, but they have the reviews to prove it!

Control lag is one of the biggest issues I've had with the Wii's controls, and I've been told the problem is inherent in Kinect as well. Long as there's that kind of underlying problem, the number of refinements won't matter. I seriously hope this isn't the epitome of motion gaming, though, because my friends are reporting issues with the controls. but I'm sure they "just suck at it" or something.

Case in point up the page a bit. Yahtzee apparently "just sucks at" motion controls and there is no such thing as controller lag.

The problem with that is it's anecdotal evidence.

I've played the game. I have no problem with the precision or timing of the controls. My sword is held where I want it to be hold. I attack from the direction that I want and it happens when I want it to happen. Any lag that may exist has never negatively impacted my gameplay to the point where I think it's a legitimate flaw.

And yet there are still people who insist that the controls in any motion game don't work the way they want. I don't have anyway to disprove that because my satisfaction is all from personal experience. It's a hard topic to discuss.

"Fanboys, please defend this."

Okay.

So the first of the many complaints I hear about this game that I've personally deemed unjustifible from my position ontop of my self-appointed throne of gaming-critic-that-doesn't-actually-critique anything is that the game has bad controls and it's generally at this point I stop paying attention to anything that's being said by that person because anyone who can't grasp their heads around the controls of this game is either incredibly stupid or is literally trying not to much like a child that that's never tried pizza before is vehemently shaking his head and pretending that it tastes terrible because it looks icky.
In fact, on the subject matter, it seems that people who had problems with the controls tend to boil down to two groups of people consisting of those who were neutral on the subject (and I say neutral cause there was only 1 or 2 games that used Motion Controls+ and of those games I know exactly zero people who've played them so there can't be anybody who's positive about it) and the people who are naturally biased and want nothing to do with the controls and refuse to even try it.

To those people in the latter group I say "Instead of bitching, have you tried not sucking"?

Much like the old saying of "A great fisherman never chooses his own lure", a great gamer or even an intelligent adult should reasonably be able to figure out how to swing the Wiimote in the direction that it's required instead of sitting there jiggling their oversized limpwrist at the direction of the T.V. then spending hours on the internet complaining about it when I just stop reading when I see the word waggle being used. "C'mon, guys." I say to them. "If you're willing to learn overcomplicated button press schematics on a keyboard or even a controller why can't you learn to flick your wrist in a simple precise motion?"
"NO!" they would respond to me while fidgeting uncomfortably as they fold their arms and turn the other way in a pout-like manner resembling that of a cathlic schoolgirl except without the skirts and the implied jail ba-Where was I again? Oh yes, right, speaking of schoolgirls, I have a 12 year-old niece who doesn't have an issue with the controls and even prefers it to the older Zelda titles and if that doesn't embarrass you (As you sit there thinking of clever insults to imply towards a 12 year-old's opinion on a "mature adult game") then I ask if you even take these things seriously in the first place.

Now onto the much dreaded topic of the notorious "fetch quests" and "padding" which has been running so rampant ever since the days of Final Fantasy XI and World of Warcraft (which has seriously made me want to take a hammer to the server of every single MMORPG and shove the whole damn thing up the anus of the nearby maintenance crew as I slowly watch the whole place slowly consume itself with negligence) which everyone and their mother has been spouting out like a catch phrase. It's not a fetch quest, you loon. A fetch quest is where you're told to go find monster x and kill him y many times, possibly even doing the extra step of bringing back token z drop that you can't even use as a normal item and therefore doesn't develop the plot or even the character other than the fact that it's attempting to mask that you're just level grinding and you're going to be doing this over the next span of your ENTIRE LIFE. A fetch quest is not "any quest where someone has told you what you need to find" and yes, technically I'm aware of the fact that it's a fetch quest on the grounds that you're told to fetch something but saying that would allow me to call Super Mario Bros and RPG and I would be technically right so long as you're playing the role of Mario in a video game you twat.

It's not even really padding because every instance of a quest in this game is either in a new area which is labyrinth like in nature with baddies and treasures and off-beaten paths for you to explore OR it's the same area with drastic changes to it including more off-beaten paths different baddies and even whole new sections to explore that take you off to the above example of a whole new area with new things to see and new labyrinths to plumb AND THEN you have the example of the water pot and the dragon which is done in less than 4 minutes and you're even given a handy map, compass in the shape of Fi's dowsing ability, and the ability to warp there, which confuses me because obviously the effect of padding is to increase the game's play time with insubstantial long-lasting activities which you've already done adnauseum and blatantly beaten like the proverbial dead horse and not for it to be a quick in and out "we really don't want you to dwadle on this part too long because you have the rest of the game to play" section that simply tests your memory like a pop quiz which the only people who would have complained about are those who either failed it because they were too busy sitting in class not listening and texting their friend about what happened at the ol' ball game or the people who are simply want to complain about everything.

Exploration seekers always make me laugh in a Zelda game because there's only been one Zelda based on exploration and that was the original NES title which is a game that almost nobody in their late teens has even touched because they can't even stand to look at the graphics and the ones who have often go crying to their mums about how the bad game touched them in their dirty places because they can't handle actually having to search for shit without the game subtly guiding them in their right way. It occurs to me that this is a poor argument for suggesting that this game has exploration in it, saying that the other Zelda's don't, but that's the thing. They don't and I don't know where people get this idea from OR actually it's not exploration in the traditional sense but rather maze-solving would be a better word for what the Zelda titles do. People these days tend to take the word exploring and liken it to the phrase "Going off the rails" and imply that it's always a good idea after being given a wonderfully constructed plot, set of dungeons, monsters, items, and nefarious do-badders is to do the COMPLETE FUCKING OPPOSITE. In a game of Dungeons and Dragons this is called derailing the campeign and doing so will quickly find you on the DM's blacklist and all of your party standing around in a hastily drawn inn for some generic tolkein rip-off that he had to make up on the fly to accommodate your need to ruin your hosts labor-intensive well constructed plans.

Exploring is more akin to you're told what to look for, but you're not told HOW to look for it or where it is and in this aspect Zelda is abound as the game masterfully places you at the start of the maze you need to be at with subtle clues and by locking you into a one-lane race track that you didn't even notice because of all the pretty pictures on the way. That's right, start up any Zelda and quickly notice that all of them are "linear" (which is a holdover from bad FPS games that I hate almost as much as MMOs; see metaphor above) they just trick you into thinking they're not by letting you look at all the areas you COULD be at if you had the proper item and may even let you take a picture. Skyward Sword removes this illusion by taking out the windows, and suddenly everyone starts crying that the game has been made too straight-forward because they can't waste 10 hours trying to figure out how to get past a post in the ground that they could have gotten passed by just playing the damn game like they normally would, instead of badgering it like a ram trying to find. . .er, whatever it is that ram's like to ram into for. Hookers and booze? I'unno.

Fi is another interesting complaint I hear about because whenever I hear about it I can always recognize the people with insufferable Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. It's actually a very rare moment when Fi interrupts the gameplay in any significant way due to her text dialogues popping up almost exclusively when you enter into a new area from a doorway or during conversation scenes where you're already engaged in a scene you can't break away from regardless, so the only REAL time Fi has to interrupt anything that you might be in the middle of would be with her message about the low battery or the low heart gauge, and both of those you can completely ignore and will go away after roughly five seconds if you so choose to. In fact a lot of her non-conversational scenes require input from the player to even activate and it makes me wonder how any of these people got through ocarina of time or even could possibly say that they liked Navi more than Fi because Navi's chime is a lot more in your face with "HEY! LISTEN TO ME! I'M IMPORTANT! LINK! HURRY UP! C'MON! TALK TO ME!", with Fi being more like a simple chiming effect that you might not even notice in the heat of heavy battle (assuming you aren't stuck on the controls and simply trying to cheese your way around everything in an attempt to avoid actually learning to play the game), like elevator music, or soothing wind-chimes, it's completely possible to ignore it and continue on, but for whatever reason, these people lack that innate ability to ignore being pestered, and I fear for the day when these same people have children and have to respond to every instance of "DAADDDY" even when they know that it's not going to be anything important enough to turn away from their work for.

Lastly, and this is on a more personal note, I come here to be trolled, Mr. "I hate everything because it's funnier that way" Yahtzee. I enjoy coming here every week and leaving in blind seething rage much like a Stockholm's syndrome kidnappee princess peach enjoys being kidnapped by a fire breathing dragon-turtle on a daily basis, but this time I'm deeply disappointed in you, not for your choice of game or words or even your childish antiques of turning this whole Skyward Sword thing into a huge debate, but because frankly your arguments about the game are lukewarm at best and you end it by saying "this is the worst Zelda I've ever played" complete with graph and chart like you scientifically calculated your hate for this in the scale that computer AI uses in that one horror story which has a long name and involves screaming when one can't. I saw Skyward Sword and was ready to be brought to tears as you thoroughly thrashed what's been one of the best Zelda titles to the date of the franchise, but all I got instead was a severe case of the "That's it?". Any of these arguments can simply be brought down by the fact that you obviously purposely tried NOT to enjoy this game, and right-o you clever wanker, you succeeded. You've successfully forced yourself to play through the entirety of a game you didn't like (or pretended not to like) for the sake of cheap laughs and because you felt you had to for your imaginary friends on the internet. I'd give you a gold medal, but they don't pass those out at the special Olympics.

Kaulen Fuhs:

I forgot:
Yahtzee resorting to middle school antics with "if I don't gush it with praise, zelda's fanboy army will attack me" is really fucking pathetic. Use your brain for a minute. People aren't mad because you "pointed out a flaw" but because it's actually horseshit that isn't really a flaw, one you contrive or one you don't explain. You've been doing this for how long and you can't accept criticism yourself?

Except, wonder of wonders, he was actually right.

Zelda fanboys aren't attacking him because he pointed out flaws; that much is true. They are attacking him because he expressed a negative opinion of a game they liked.

For example, I've seen someone outright state that they cannot handle the fact that someone doesn't like a game they like (in reference to Zelda: SS), and that was why they were so upset.

No, he isn't. That isn't something you can say he's "right" because you saw one guy say it and it's not hard to imagine that many don't like the review because of what I already said in my first post. Not everyone that dissmissed the review is a "fanboy"; it's an abstract argument but that much is just common fucking sense.

ilovemyLunchbox:
Here's an eye-opener... Without googling it, what was the name of the final boss?

Go ahead and lie and say you remember after having googled it, but you know and I both know you don't remember a damn thing.

A Zelda game where you can't remember who the last boss was... Awful.

His name is Demise. I didn't google it and I admit that as far as villains go even for zelda games he's bland, but his name is FUCKING DEMISE! That's not something forgettable.

This article pretty much sums up why I wasn't sad to let my Wii go despite knowing a new Zelda title was in the making. I mean, I've played SO many Zelda titles in my life I just think I'm burned out! When I play a newer one all I'm wondering is whether I'll go to the Forest, Fire or Water dungeon first, at what point in the game I'm going to get the hookshot, bow, bombs and better shield, and while I completely understand the idea of having 'legacy items' in a game, I think I'm tired of these specific elements. They did try to make it more appealing by introducing something new with the array of motion-controlled items, but it just wasn't enough to make me want to play it.

In fact, the Zelda titles I enjoyed the most were Majora's Mask, Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time. To me, once you've played OoT or ALttP, you've pretty much seen them all. Only MM and WW made me think that I really was playing a new game.

I enjoy Zelda games but I was slightly disappointed by Skyward Sword for a few reasons.

I enjoy the art style (minus Link's weird face) but I definitely agree with the terrible motion controls. All the times I have got annoyed so far with the game have been when the controls have reacted too late and resulted in Link doing something stupid. What is worse is they intend to keep the control scheme for the next game I recall reading somewhere.

The lack of opportunity to explore is also a huge set back making the game feel very "guided". I cannot just go out and explore and marvel at the diverse scenery. I think Majoras Mask is a good contender for interesting level and world design. Same for Wind Waker too minus most of the islands were pretty useless (a problem inherited by Skyward Sword, which was a shame.)

I'm a huge Zelda fangirl but I do agree with you Yahtzee. Not all fanboys/fangirls of the franchise are like the picture you're painting in the article. Some of us definitely agree with you.

Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Mr. Fahrenheit:
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

It's quite revealing that those defending the controllers are resorting to attacking the mental capacities of those who dislike them.

Apparently some fans "get" the wii controls and some don't. That's fine. I think they are wonky, but my friend believes they are fun. This is using the same controller, for the same system, in the same room. We didn't argue the point further because it was trivial.

People are different. I know this sounds like a copout argument, and pleading for civility in an internet forum is like trying to hold a peace accord in Mogadishu. But I think its important. It's not just how well people can use it, its also the standard that they hold it to.

However, I do feel that a company that wants to market itself as having mass appeal should ask some serious questions when it turns out a significant percentage of the target market feels the controller is bad. Their complaints won't go away no matter how many times you tell them they must have Multiple sclerosis. Either you accept that your controller doesn't appeal to everyone or improve the controller.

Hal10k:

Mr. Fahrenheit:
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

See, he defeated the purpose of admitting bias by then trying to present his personal feelings as absolute facts. After that statement, if you don't think that he in particular is irrationally bias and prone to ignore objectivity, then I don't know what to say. The article also herds together anyone who thinks positively of the game into a big group of fanboys who ignore objective flaws, even though that's logically untrue.

Mr. Fahrenheit:

Hal10k:

Mr. Fahrenheit:
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

See, he defeated the purpose of admitting bias by then trying to present his personal feelings as absolute facts. After that statement, if you don't think that he in particular is irrationally bias and prone to ignore objectivity, then I don't know what to say. The article also herds together anyone who thinks positively of the game into a big group of fanboys who ignore objective flaws, even though that's logically untrue.

Look, of course he's biased. I'm just going to repost what I wrote on the video thread instead of rewriting my opinion on this:

Whether or not you agree with his criticisms is subjective, of course. But don't disregard him just because he's biased. We're all biased in one way or another; that's one of the downsides of actually possessing a long-term memory in conjunction with the capacity for logical reasoning. Yahtzee's opinion is biased because he dislikes the Wii. The argument you made is biased because you disliked Yahtzee's review. The argument I'm making right now is biased because I'm really uptight about semantics for some reason. If you want a genuinely unbiased review of a game, I'd suggest rolling a ten-sided die.

There's no such thing as being "unfairly biased". And as for "ignoring objectivity"- you do realize that whether or not you enjoy a game is the polar opposite of objectivity, right?

Personally, I really did like the game, but in the end, Fi would probably, no, has a GUARANTEED spot as my pick for the worst sidekick ever. I plugged my ears whenever I heard her voice, which was rather often, and got annoyed at how often she repeated stuff we already learned literally 10 seconds before.

I think what turned me off about Fi more than anything, more than her dispassion or her stating of the obvious all the time, is the fact that she has no eyes. And it makes sense, being essentially a robot. But it's kind of hard to latch onto a character with no real eyes, just a space on her face where eyes would be. If they'd given her a visor or goggles, I probably wouldn't have minded all that much.

One of the Let's Players I follow did an LP for SS, and mostly for time reasons I stopped watching it. And yet when I thought of catching up, I found I really don't want to all that much. The game looks beautiful, and has an interesting impressionistic art style. But despite how much that LPer loved the game while playing, I just couldn't get on board.

Another thing, Zelda creeps me out. It's her nose, it's freaky looking. And it's offputting, because most of the beginning of the game is spent hanging out with her. Not that spending time with the fair maiden is bad, because then at least the player can care about who they're risking their lives to save. But Wind Waker did it so much better.

I really need to buy WW, though it may be diffucult given how expensive it probably is at this point.

Hal10k:

Mr. Fahrenheit:
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Very good point. You know, I've never been for or against Zelda games. Kind of always had an outside look at things. I played a few but never really got hooked so they've always been a me'h product to me. The one I got the furthest through was Windwaker though didn't complete it due to the Gamecube breaking down and not having the money to replace it.

However, as a fellow who frequents the web, I'm certainly familiar with the Legend of Zelda series and the fandom. Overtime you tend to pick things up through reading comments on reviews (such as this) and reading forums and such. The idea the fans tend to give me from and outside perspective is that they're bloody looney*. Its near impossible to criticize a Zelda game, even if the criticism is entirely justified, without having them swarm upon you like rabid dogs. Must make it incredibly hard for a critic to review such a series.

I was once watching a review for the Wii port of Ocarina (I think that was it) on Gamespot and I read the comments and they were going savage, death threats, threats of violence, blaming of other franchises, the industry and so on... For what you may ask? They scored the game 9.5 instead of 10, that 0.5 of a score caused pretty much chaos in that comment section. That always perplexed me. Even now, reading a few reactions here you get the feeling that people are really saying "You can review and be mean to any other game, however if you touch TLOZ, your a bias arsehole and not actually a critic"... The fanbase actually put me off getting into the series, which is a shame as I really do want to get it another try.

You know, I'm a big fan of the Final Fantasy series, even the more poor games, so the series I'm a fan of tends to get quite a lot of flack, specially the recent ones. However I don't go rampantly insane with death threats about it, I don't vigorously deny all the flaws pointed out, I mostly just accept that its their opinion and I can look past that. Plenty of the games I like get equal amount of flack... Doesn't mean I'm going to throw a jiddy fit about it. I think anyone who does needs to seriously reevaluate their lives. You peeps do understand that you don't need Yahtzee's or any other critics approval to play your game don't you?.

*I will note that not all the fans are like this, indeed they're fans out there, in this very thread that seem to be down to earth.

Also, I haven't been visited this place in a while other than to watch vids... Just wondering, with it being Wednesday and all... Where Yahtzee's weekly review is.

Hal10k:

Mr. Fahrenheit:

Hal10k:

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

See, he defeated the purpose of admitting bias by then trying to present his personal feelings as absolute facts. After that statement, if you don't think that he in particular is irrationally bias and prone to ignore objectivity, then I don't know what to say. The article also herds together anyone who thinks positively of the game into a big group of fanboys who ignore objective flaws, even though that's logically untrue.

Look, of course he's biased. I'm just going to repost what I wrote on the video thread instead of rewriting my opinion on this:

Whether or not you agree with his criticisms is subjective, of course. But don't disregard him just because he's biased. We're all biased in one way or another; that's one of the downsides of actually possessing a long-term memory in conjunction with the capacity for logical reasoning. Yahtzee's opinion is biased because he dislikes the Wii. The argument you made is biased because you disliked Yahtzee's review. The argument I'm making right now is biased because I'm really uptight about semantics for some reason. If you want a genuinely unbiased review of a game, I'd suggest rolling a ten-sided die.

There's no such thing as being "unfairly biased". And as for "ignoring objectivity"- you do realize that whether or not you enjoy a game is the polar opposite of objectivity, right?

It isn't that Yahtzee is bias...it's the fact that he admits his own bias while still insisting that his opinions are objective facts. His entire review came off to me as nothing but a ranting hated for motion controls in general.

The fact that Yahtzee leaves absolutely no room for error and reduces anyone who strongly disagrees with him to gibbering strawmen is what makes him unfairly bias.

I like Yahtzee...I think his entertaining...but that's it. He's an entertainer. As someone who objectively judges the quality of media, I don't think he's good at what he does. And yes, there are ways to objectively judge a videogame.

You wouldn't tell those Occupy Wall Street to sod off because their complaints are getting repetitive.

No. I tell OWS to fuck off because they're gorram hypocrites who refuse to acknowledge that they've allowed their movement to be hijacked by extremist elements who have no interest in the message, only in stirring up chaos and strife in our country.

How are OWS hypocrites? They're sponsored by Unions, who contribute a good three times as much to politics as big business and Wall Street.

And it's hilarious that they're supporting/being endorsed by the Democratic Party, who receive the Lion's Share of money from both Wall Street AND unions.

Mr. Fahrenheit:

Hal10k:

Mr. Fahrenheit:
Why is it that anyone who disagrees with a negative opinion about a Zelda game is a fanboy?

Why is it that anyone who offers a negative opinion of a Zelda game is unfairly biased?

Yahtzee himself mentioned in the article that he is bias against motion controls...but then he covered that up by saying it's just because he was bias against things that weren't fun.

But here's the thing: what one person considers 'fun' differs from others.

I find it baffling that people can derive enjoyment from Dwarf Fortress. I like the stories that come out of it, but I can't fathom who could put up with it. If I was offered a living salary to explain in detail why I don't like Dwarf Fortress, I would probably due so. And if my appeal was based on humor, I couldn't honestly write the article while trying not to hurt anyone's feelings.

But at the end of the day, my opinion that Dwarf Fortress isn't fun is subjective. So when I say "I don't like it because it's not fun," I mean that I did not find it fun. Same here for Yahtzee

Dunkerloop:
Personally, I really did like the game, but in the end, Fi would probably, no, has a GUARANTEED spot as my pick for the worst sidekick ever. I plugged my ears whenever I heard her voice, which was rather often, and got annoyed at how often she repeated stuff we already learned literally 10 seconds before.

Eh, I liked her. The fact that she made her statements with such absolute certainty made her seem so cynical...like she was treating Link as an idiot. I didn't find her to be as intrusive as so many made her out to be.

Before playing the game, I was under the impression that she interrupted you whenever you were low on health. Instead, when you get down to three hearts, a soft chime sounds three times and then doesn't repeat...and you don't even have to talk to her. Probably the least annoying way of making it absolutely clear that you're low on health in any Zelda game. Her Rumors and Monster Analysis also were very helpful.

I thought she served more of a purpose than Midna...who didn't really know much about anything.

She's no Ezlo though.

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