Escapist Podcast: 027: Ocean Marketing & Roleplay in MMOs

027: Ocean Marketing & Roleplay in MMOs

This week, we discuss the Ocean Marketing debacle. We also talk about buying things in game and roleplaying in MMOs.

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I looked at the guide down the bottom and saw all the food references, "Yep I'm in the right place".

*EDIT* [Apologies, I found a step ladder tall enough to help me off my high horse (at least on to a less high horse) ] Also, TLDR syndrome.

First, great show as usually Escapist team.

Second, from my experience in the Customer service industry, this guy did a terrible job and should suffer some professional consequences as a result, though not knowing the full situation, I don't feel I'm in a position to pronounce what that consequences should be. However, I believe as a society we have a major problem with the willingness and aggressiveness of people on the internet when it comes to distributing what they/we feel is retribution. Trails in the media and on the internet are not fair, but punishment given by millions of nearly anonymous, out of sync, unorganized, people who are making up what each individual feels is just without training or skill in that area, is so much worse.

I think we should all take a minute before we join the lynch mob and ask is this the type of person I want to be and what this would be like if I was this guy. It feels like if we did, people might feel more shame than Schadenfreud.

I found it funny that they talk about the misspelling of the PR rep's emails and then below the podcast I saw "Podcast is now availible from iTunes." I wonder if it was done on purpose.

Edit: Its been fixed now, guess it wasn't on purpose :p

"Paul" deserves to have both his professional and personal life drug through the mud. If it was just bad CS, I'd say this has gone too far. But, it wasn't just that, it was bad CS, then him picking a fight with a big website, then him giving a phony "I'm sorry I bit off way more than I could chew" apology, and now he's bragging about how much press he's bringing in and trying to extort money. Not only is the guy a bully, he's a criminal and pure sleaze.

In fact, I wish this happened more. We see EA, Ubisoft, and their ilk crapping all over their customers all the time with no consequences for it except for a handful of people claiming they'll boycott.. which we know how many people actually stick to those claims. But I'm getting way off topic.

As I've said before, the only undeserving victim is the Avenger Controller people who are having to clean up this mess and deal with Paul hijacking their accounts and holding them for ransom.

You nailed it on the RP servers btw. The hardcore PVP Brotards that WoW has born and bred gravitate to RP servers in new games cause it isn't loaded with the super l33t MLG pros and they can easily dominate since they play 23hrs a day.

For a second there I was expecting the music at 34:10ish to turn into the Savage titlecard music by Jeroen Tel.



Ah, the mob mentality. To summarize: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility

Paul whatshisface is scum, but the mob that's surrounding this is scary. Scarier is Gabe over at Penny Arcade. Not only has he unleashed a monster, he's gleeful about it. His line "I will personally burn everything I've made to the fucking ground if I think I can catch them in the flames." was fucked up for a person, never mind a con runner and charity runner and employer, to say. "See this artist? I will ruin her job to try fuck you up! See these sick kids? I will stop them from getting toys if I can fuck you up!"

I read PA, but those guys really scare me sometimes. The more I see of them the more I respect Robert Khoo for both running the business and corralling them.

 
And yes, acting as gatekeeper for this kind of thing is a valuable service the Escapist provides:
http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/24/1533222/what-do-we-do-when-the-internet-mob-is-wrong


Wow. Selling those scammy door-to-door water filters? I'd have been a lousy salesman too.

I'm in customer service (way too many horror stories to tell*), but I've been told off for not upselling when someone asks my advice. I still won't do it. I'm not in a sales position, I wasn't hired for a sales position, I won't do it. And if I DID sell them something they don't need and they return it, I'm the one who gets yelled at when I tell them there's a restocking charge on returns. I don't need that.

* Okay, here's one: I did have one guy who was trying to rope me into his pyramid scheme. He came in so often - this is how sad it was, he came to a customer service desk trolling for suckers - I started taking my lunch breaks when he showed up and waited for him to get bored and leave. Fortunately his persistence never outlasted my lunch break.

Great podcast guys!

Here's to another great year of awesome videos/podcasts/news/games and everything else! *raises his drink*

(Obligatory "I love the podcast," 'cause, hey, I do!)

But you want questions? I have questions.

I got into a couple of the Star Wars: The Old Republic beta weekends and I had a lot of fun, but I can't really justify the $10-$15 monthly subscription when, say, a year's subscription can buy me multiple other games (not to mention things like food), especially since I tend to buy games later for cheaper (I recently bought Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, and Bastion for $30 total). Do you think SW:TOR will go free to play soon? If so, how do you think they'll do it, microtransactions, or a kind of extended trial and level cap like WoW, with a subscription for the full version?

What do you think of Diablo III's real money marketplace? Do you think gaming can become a viable method of making money? If so, awesome, or horrible?

If you could only buy one game next year, what would it be?

I love the podcast even tho this one was a bit less interesting then usual for me....
ok so its like this
I quit playing MMO a few years ago cuz my favorite MMOs were shut down, got worse, started to "sell power" or they just became boring to me and my friends so we decide to quit.
So now after a few years I tried to start playing MMOs again but I cant find one that I can enjoy or get sucked into like I did/could to the ones I played a few years ago.

so my question is this is it just me or most of present day MMOs are just too plain repetitive and lack uniqueness, challenge, and dont encourage team work ?

"Ballz-inya" - So this is what happens when you have no girls on the podcast?

Batterskull is 13 dollars... when the hell did you look last?

Hell... I think it peaked at 30 when it first came out, but dropped to 25 quickly.

Edit:

Suikoden II got it's US release in 1999 as well ♥

How is being born on a holiday a ripoff? My birthday is december 31th and I love it! You're pretty much guaranteed to always have your birthday off.

Also here's a question in case you run dry: A long time ago in a galaxy far far away called azeroth I stumbled into a RP server. Needless to say it got awkward fast because I had no idea what it was all about.
So I reaped the internet's vast fields of knowledge and it came up with all this stuff like you have to write a backstory, keep a journal for each character, study your race's history so you know who to hate,... Which frankly sounds very tedious and time consuming. But than there's also stuff like no 1337speak which sounds pretty good actually.
So my question is: what exactly is mandatory on a RP server and what isn't? What is the bare minimum I should know/do to give it a fair try?

Sylveria:
"Paul" deserves to have both his professional and personal life drug through the mud. If it was just bad CS, I'd say this has gone too far. But, it wasn't just that, it was bad CS, then him picking a fight with a big website, then him giving a phony "I'm sorry I bit off way more than I could chew" apology, and now he's bragging about how much press he's bringing in and trying to extort money. Not only is the guy a bully, he's a criminal and pure sleaze.

See? This is where I think things have got out of hand. The mob seems to want to rewrite the Old Testament notion of justice to read "A life for an eye, a life for a tooth."

On what grounds does this guy deserve to have his personal life drug through the mud? There's just no proportionality there. He's lost his reputation, his client, and possibly his entire business over this, but it still doesn't seem to be enough for the torch and pitchfork crowd, who won't stop until this guy's entire life and family is ruined. As douchey as this guy seems to be, I don't want any part that. I mean, that's our whole objection to this guy's behavior in the first place, right? That he acting out of proportion. To claim that we have the right to expand our attention and efforts beyond his professional misconduct is misguided and arrogant.

I understand the impulse, of course, but we're better than that and claiming "he started it" isn't an acceptable justification for engaging in the very type of thing we're condemning him for. There's no moral high ground for any of us if all we're proving is that we can out-bully a bully.

Draconalis:
Batterskull is 13 dollars... when the hell did you look last?

Hell... I think it peaked at 30 when it first came out, but dropped to 25 quickly.

Edit:

Suikoden II got it's US release in 1999 as well ♥

It's been a while. I think I might also have been mixing it up with Wurmcoil Engine, which seems to have held its price more.

bliebblob:
How is being born on a holiday a ripoff? My birthday is december 31th and I love it! You're pretty much guaranteed to always have your birthday off.

As a child: Imagine a bunch of presents labeled "Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday" while your siblings have a similar amount labeled "Merry Christmas" with promise of another bunch whenever their birthday is. Like parties? Well, your birthday party involves turkey with your grandma, not cake with your friends.

As an adult: I suppose if you like having your birthday off, but... eh. For most of us it's just another day. I can completely understand an adult willing to trade their birthday at home as an adult away for some party-and-toy-based justice for their past self.

Besides, it's December 31st and I'm at work right now. Hell, this is a 40 hour week with no extra pay for me. Depending on where you are and what industry you work in, the concept of holidays might not be held in such esteem by your employers.


The Most Popular box:
[UPDATE] Ocean Marketing Attempts To Extort Former Client
UPDATE: Penny Arcade Smacks Down Shady PR Dude
Ocean Marketing's Founder Claims He's Sorry
[UPDATE] Ocean Marketing's Former Client Disowns Shady PR Firm
Valve: There Is No Half-Life 3

Damn, you weren't kidding about that guy being the source of most of your traffic.

Slycne:

It's been a while. I think I might also have been mixing it up with Wurmcoil Engine, which seems to have held its price more.

Wurmcoil has certainly seen some jumps in prices.

I remember buying the two different arts for 8 bucks each simply because I collect Wurms.

I had no idea what an amazing card it was at the time... I think it's up to 20 now?

Good time...

But yeah, I try to keep 3 mana up in order to return the batterskull to my hand if people target it with destruction spells.

Formica Archonis:

bliebblob:
How is being born on a holiday a ripoff? My birthday is december 31th and I love it! You're pretty much guaranteed to always have your birthday off.

As a child: Imagine a bunch of presents labeled "Merry Christmas and Happy Birthday" while your siblings have a similar amount labeled "Merry Christmas" with promise of another bunch whenever their birthday is. Like parties? Well, your birthday party involves turkey with your grandma, not cake with your friends.

As an adult: I suppose if you like having your birthday off, but... eh. For most of us it's just another day. I can completely understand an adult willing to trade their birthday at home as an adult away for some party-and-toy-based justice for their past self.

Besides, it's December 31st and I'm at work right now. Hell, this is a 40 hour week with no extra pay for me. Depending on where you are and what industry you work in, the concept of holidays might not be held in such esteem by your employers.

It's true, there's probably better ways to spend your birthday than with your grandparents. And yet I find myself looking forward to it as early as november. Must be doing something right, right?
I also really can't complain about presents. On Christmas, when the family gathers, I get regular Cristmas gifts plus birthday gifts from everyone except my parents and sister. Usually it's just cash but that's because they don't know what I really want. And that's ok because, usually, neither do I. Than, on my actual birthday, I get THE present from my parents and sister.
And than there's also the unique option of having 1 supergift that counts as both your Christmas present and birthday present, without being disappointed later in the year when you don't get anything for your actual birthday.
As for the part about having the day off, yeah that was kinda stupid. A few minutes after posting it I started thinking to myself: "Wait, I know plenty of people who work the 31st! WTH am I talking about?" So: sorry to hear you are one of them and happy holidays antman!

Rule #1 of enjoying your time on a RP server: General Chat does not exist. Turn that shit off.

I though you guys had a large backlog of questions piling up, did you get through them all?

Even without the questions, the podcast is still very entertaining.

Keep up the good work!

I never thought of MMOs having actual roleplaying (my experience with the genre is only a couple days of a free trial with WoW in...2007?). Seems like it could be cool. Though I really don't want to play The Old Republic for the same reasons mentioned in the podcast: I'll feel like I will need to get "my money's worth" every month. I'm only interested in the game as a single player experience as well. If they charged an up-front fee to pay each class, I think I'd do that.

Conspicuous lack of discussion about the escapist's redesign :P

00:00 - Starting off with a Mel Brooks reference, always good.

39:20 - Marble McDonalds? now that's not something you're going to see on No Reservations.

1:05:00 - I usually don't do lols and emoticons either. Mostly because it's not the early 90's and we have computers that can handle an actual sentence.

Also, no Simpsons ref? YOU'VE LOST YOUR TOUCH! SERIOUS BUSINESS!

Steve Butts:

Sylveria:
"Paul" deserves to have both his professional and personal life drug through the mud. If it was just bad CS, I'd say this has gone too far. But, it wasn't just that, it was bad CS, then him picking a fight with a big website, then him giving a phony "I'm sorry I bit off way more than I could chew" apology, and now he's bragging about how much press he's bringing in and trying to extort money. Not only is the guy a bully, he's a criminal and pure sleaze.

See? This is where I think things have got out of hand. The mob seems to want to rewrite the Old Testament notion of justice to read "A life for an eye, a life for a tooth."

On what grounds does this guy deserve to have his personal life drug through the mud? There's just no proportionality there. He's lost his reputation, his client, and possibly his entire business over this, but it still doesn't seem to be enough for the torch and pitchfork crowd, who won't stop until this guy's entire life and family is ruined. As douchey as this guy seems to be, I don't want any part that. I mean, that's our whole objection to this guy's behavior in the first place, right? That he acting out of proportion. To claim that we have the right to expand our attention and efforts beyond his professional misconduct is misguided and arrogant.

I understand the impulse, of course, but we're better than that and claiming "he started it" isn't an acceptable justification for engaging in the very type of thing we're condemning him for. There's no moral high ground for any of us if all we're proving is that we can out-bully a bully.

This is where I don't get Escapist's stance. The mob mentality can only take hold because big sites like Kotaku and Escapist keep feeding the fire. As was said in the podcast it was your biggest story of the week.

Escapist didn't escalate the story as much as certain other sites, but I think by re-posting the story uncritically you add extra momentum to the snowball. You could have chosen not to bring it, or you could have waited until the dust settled and added your own angle to the story. In the end I feel you acted as willing tools for people with a personal agenda.

No Simpsons quotes? Fake podcat.

Great podcast...but at the same time Susan has a wonderful restraining influence...

If you need a question then: do game reviews affect which games you buy (either positively or negatively)? Was there a game that you were going to buy until a bad review then didn't or a game you weren't going to buy until a good review? (espically pre-Escapist)

Ah you are so right about the chat logs, I work in cs and the ERP is horrible sometimes especially when the player has reported something unrelated to that or they continue to ERP as you talk to them very very wrong.

Oh and we are supposed to use emoticons at work to appear more upbeat/friendly and helpful and I hate them most of the time and don't think it's appropriate for work but no it's :D all day long.

Great podcast as always. Question what do you think is the most promising original title, not sequel that's scheduled for release in 2012?

my smuggler is Solohandluv :)

 

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