Escape to the Movies: Iron Lady

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A Pinnochio prequel? Oh boy! I can't wait to see Johnny Depp's portrayal of Gepetto and Helena Bonham Carter playing...does it even matter? After I watch that, I can visit my proctologist and enjoy a nice dinner of raw chicken and rusty screws.

Then I slip into a coma until Tim Burton picks the next book from the childrens section of his local library to mess with.

I hate saying this because once upon a time, I really liked Burton's work. I loved his Batman movies, I enjoyed Mars Attacks, and I know I'm gonna get some hatred for saying this, but I even liked his Charlie and the Chocolate Factory to an extent (in my defense, 95% of the stuff I liked in that movie was thanks to Danny Elfman, the other 5% was me being distracted by pretty colors)

But now his process seems to just be "Pick something that exists, film Johnny Depp being wacky for about an hour and a half, profit and repeat."

God I hate Thatcher. I wouldn't mind an open ended film, trying to be unbiased while presenting as close to factual a Thatcher as is possible, hell that would have been really interesting to see. A biased FOR her film? God no, I think I'd gag, she did some nasty things to this country and much of it still negatively impacts us today. She did some good stuff too. Some, but not much...

I dunno, it sounds like a shoddy brown nosing film to me, I'll take another look (tis MovieBob's opinion after all, informed as it may be) but yeah, I don't want to see something that completely ignores her opposition or attempts to demonise them, that's childish directing from the best of films.

So its alot like J Edgar then Too afraid to take a critical stand on the person being presented, good to know will avoid it.

I've got some champagne on ice for the day she dies.

Steam?

There's smaller geysers in Yellowstone.

Having that vile siren watching over us again, without being dead, is torture enough.

Without completely ignoring the destruction of the unions, welfare state, BP, British Steel, British Rail, The Belgrano, etc. etc. etc.

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Son, Ireland tore itself apart back in 1912.

But back to Thatcher

Barciad:
Just to say, for those that don't know too much about her in real life. Imagine if Dick Cheney was a woman.

lol, get serious. That is an incredibly biased/silly comment to make. I was under the impression that she actually did some good for the UK. I'm not saying it was all good, but to compare here to Cheney? No, that's going to far.

As far as some of her policies/views are concerned, in regards to EU there seem to be people like Nigel Farage(who is in the UK Independence Party) that dislike the EU as much as she did.

Here is what I am referring to....


I have yet to hear an elected politician from an Independent American political party say the same things that Cheney said.

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

I'm sorry, Thatcher Might have messed up my homeland as much as the next, but if honesty you think the UK breaking up would honestly make Ireland United, I've a soild 22 odd years of my life living in Co. Armagh and Down Knowing that is the biggest insult I've heard in a long while.

OT, I'd hoped the flim would be a bit fleshed out, but looks like something that would just piss me off than anything.

Lethos:

Volf99:

Gallium:

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

It's really odd that you have gone into a thread that has nothing to do with Ireland just so you can make a controversial statement.

Anyway I wasn't alive when Thatcher was in power however I do know that the country was actually pretty shitty before she got into power and she did manage to get our economy back on track. Probably simplifying it a bit, but meh.

More specifically she got the economy looking like it was back on track for the duration of the time she anticipated she would be in power, and since then everyone (including her own party twice) has been dealing with the fallout of the absolute mess she made of things.

I think the moment that speaks for itself actually came quite recently when certain files were dclassified. In it they revealed that Lord Howe, one of the senior advisors, had recommended that instead of trying to help Liverpool get back on its feet economically, because they had had a strike there, the government should let it go into controlled dcline, because then the city would be easier to control. And by all accounts, that's exactly what Thatcher allowed.

So yeah, allowing a town to deliberately spiral into terrible conditions, when you have the resources to help them, and doing it because you wanted to control the nasty poor people, is not quite how I would define getting the economy back on track.

Gallium:

number2301:
for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

And like Bin Laden i wish the armed forces of some country would put a bullet between her eyes too!

And then put a dance mat on her grave for all the people to dance on!

I, like many Northerners, had steam, boiling hot steam cannoning from my ears when I even watched the trailers never mind the bloody film. The fact that the film apparently glosses over most the shit she did is nothing short of offensive.

The Artificially Prolonged:

And incidentially when she does die, we should get the guiness record guys here to witness the worlds biggest congo line to pass over someone's grave.

All the North will be united for one special day and it will be like the end of The Return of The Jedi.

FriendGuy:
Eh...my desire to see this movie was pretty much solely based on how much complexity and nuance they could convey the subject matter. In other words, my intrest is now dashed...

Merryl Streep is a great actress, but can anyone else not help but notice the similarities between this and her earlier film "The Queen"?

That is Helen Mirren, not Merryl Streep

OT: This just seems like another Streep acting vehicle, she is amazing, but I'd prefer she take a step back to let the movies she is in outshine her a bit.

Glademaster:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Son, Ireland tore itself apart back in 1912.

That is quite cold.

It's a very cold situation for me. My family were "involved".

The_root_of_all_evil:
Steam?

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Son, Ireland tore itself apart back in 1912.

I realize that, but England played a role in trying to suppress the Irish pursuit for freedom from the English. The British have played a part in causing misery long after 1912. Margret Thatcher also helped make things worse by denying people their rights.

A little off topic, but...


EDIT: Do to a request I have changed the song

The_root_of_all_evil:

Glademaster:

The_root_of_all_evil:

Son, Ireland tore itself apart back in 1912.

That is quite cold.

It's a very cold situation for me. My family were "involved".

I'm sure they probably were a lot of families were but you make it sound like Ireland brought all of this disunity on itself. Well it is more the year that bothers me to be honest. I could get behind saying the way the Republic went about dealing with the actual Troubles as tearing itself apart but not with the whole Home Rule and Unionism in 1912.

Daystar Clarion:

Volf99:

Daystar Clarion:

Well, to put it simply, she got rid of providing free milk to to school children below a certain age.

Well why did she get rid of it? I really doubt that it was out of a pure evil intention.

Because she hated children and wanted us to suffer.

She feeds off of anguish you see, she's like a vampire, but without any of the cool powers.

lol, I'm sure. But seriously, while I don't agree with everything she did, it seems absurd to have a serious opinion that she was "evil".

Volf99:

Barciad:
Just to say, for those that don't know too much about her in real life. Imagine if Dick Cheney was a woman.

lol, get serious. That is an incredibly biased/silly comment to make. I was under the impression that she actually did some good for the UK. I'm not saying it was all good, but to compare here to Cheney? No, that's going to far.

As far as some of her policies/views are concerned, in regards to EU there seem to be people like Nigel Farage(who is in the UK Independence Party) that dislike the EU as much as she did.

Here is what I am referring to....


I have yet to hear an elected politician from an Independent American political party say the same things that Cheney said.

Wow. Did you just try defend someone by comparing their views to Nigel Farage?! Let's get some perspective on that guy...

On race relations:

Nigel Farage ... told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us", according to Dr Sked.

On terrorism:

In January 2004, MEPs from several parties and countries received letter bombs. The targets included Gary Titley, leader of the Labour group of MEPs, whose assistant was injured in the attack. UKIP issued a press release in which they said that they could "understand the reasons behind [the attacks]".In the face of widespread public outcry, the UKIP leadership then issued a statement in which they refused to withdraw their remarks and in fact congratulated their MEP Nigel Farage on making them.

Mr Titley's letter bomb attack was followed by a deluge of electronic hate-mail from people who endorsed UKIP's views on terrorism. The party itself denied any involvement.

On professionalism:

UKIP's founder leader Dr Alan Sked has revealed that Nigel Farage MEP often failed in his duties because he was "blind drunk". Dr Sked has added: "UKIP's MEPs are a standing joke at Strasbourg, where their attendance record, even by the standards of most MEPs, is relatively poor and where, according to independent research by the European Studies centre at the London School of Economics, the three often vote in different ways on the same issue."

On his own bloody job:

Nigel Farage MEP has admitted that he had "no idea how [the European Parliament] worked" when he was elected.

On law:

On 4 September 2000, police and local trading standards officers seized four video copies of a BBC TV documentary, The Enemy Within, when they raided UKIP's South East branch offices in Redhill. Nigel Farage MEP had been copying and selling them illegally in breach of copyright. Jeffrey Titford MEP later claimed that Farage had done so because he was irritated that the BBC had decided not to screen the documentary in which he featured.

Also in 2000, the European Parliament ordered UKIP to repay 11,500 of expenses. The party had diverted surplus travel expenses to fund the failed court cases of the 'metric martyrs', market traders who were taken to court for refusing to display metric measurements alongside imperial ones when selling their wares. Nigel Farage MEP has since repeated UKIP's intention to use parliamentary expenses "to further the objectives of UKIP back in Britain".

The BNP links:

Nigel Farage MEP has admitted meeting Dr Mark Deavin (the BNP's then head of research who had briefly infiltrated UKIP as Research Director and NEC member to pass on information about its work to the BNP until being expelled from UKIP in May 1997) over lunch on 17 June 1997 at the latter's request, to discuss his defection from UKIP to the BNP.65 Farage was also photographed in June 1997 chatting to the BNP's Tony 'The Bomber' Lecomber66 (who has served two prison sentences: he was jailed for three years in 1985 for possession of explosives, and for three years in 1991 for stabbing a Jewish schoolteacher).

Think the Cheney comparisons were quite complimentary in comparison...

Volf99:

I realize that, but England played a role in trying to suppress the Irish pursuit for freedom from the English. The British have played a part in causing misery long after 1912. Margret Thatcher also helped make things worse by denying people their rights.

Glademaster:

I'm sure they probably were a lot of families were but you make it sound like Ireland brought all of this disunity on itself. Well it is more the year that bothers me to be honest. I could get behind saying the way the Republic went about dealing with the actual Troubles as tearing itself apart but not with the whole Home Rule and Unionism in 1912.

I've thought about this, and I won't be continuing on this subject. I've far too much invested in what happened, what happens and what will happen.

Suffice to say my family were "involved" heavily.

Volf99:

Daystar Clarion:

Volf99:

Well why did she get rid of it? I really doubt that it was out of a pure evil intention.

Because she hated children and wanted us to suffer.

She feeds off of anguish you see, she's like a vampire, but without any of the cool powers.

lol, I'm sure. But seriously, while I don't agree with everything she did, it seems absurd to have a serious opinion that she was "evil".

Nah, of course she wasn't evil.

She was a politician, which pretty much sums up all my feelings for her.

Volf99:

Daystar Clarion:

dalek sec:

I'm sorry but as a Yank what exactly did she do with the milk? I've read the little chant of her snatching milk but what exactly did she do? I'm not judging, just asking cause well... I'm a Yank and when it came to politics I kinda rolled my eye's cause it usally makes me rage. Sorry if I sound so lacking about her time as PM.

Well, to put it simply, she got rid of providing free milk to to school children below a certain age.

Well why did she get rid of it? I really doubt that it was out of a pure evil intention.

Because providing it costs money. Money that could be saved by not providing it.
This was a -good- decision.

I'm a northerner. I grew up on a council estate, I'm most definitely still working class and there's quite possibly nothing I fear more than the middle-upper class being in positions of authority.

Thatcher is not our equivalent of Dick Cheney or Bin Laden. I'm not going to totally outline my political views here but 30 years on, do children get free milk (at the expense of the government) at schools? And all of them mines, they've opened up again right? No?... Interesting

Lusty:

On race relations:

Nigel Farage ... told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us", according to Dr Sked.

Tory flyer from the 70s. "Do you want black people (N-Word) living next door to you?"

Ruairi iliffe:

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

I'm sorry, Thatcher Might have messed up my homeland as much as the next, but if honesty you think the UK breaking up would honestly make Ireland United, I've a soild 22 odd years of my life living in Co. Armagh and Down Knowing that is the biggest insult I've heard in a long while.

OT, I'd hoped the flim would be a bit fleshed out, but looks like something that would just piss me off than anything.

I just mean that it would help lead to the possibility, not that it would automatically result in a single Irish country. I mean obviously there are other factors (like the Unionist, Protestants[not trying to generalize] and the a**holes like the Orange Order and their supporters) in North Ireland that would contribute to NI staying a separate government. Now that's not including people on the other side(Republic of Ireland) who probably have other things to worry about at the moment(like the economy) that would be less than happy for this to happen right now. Heck I wouldn't doubt that there are some people that don't want to join at all, because of how it might have a negative affect on Ireland overall.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Volf99:

I realize that, but England played a role in trying to suppress the Irish pursuit for freedom from the English. The British have played a part in causing misery long after 1912. Margret Thatcher also helped make things worse by denying people their rights.

Glademaster:

I'm sure they probably were a lot of families were but you make it sound like Ireland brought all of this disunity on itself. Well it is more the year that bothers me to be honest. I could get behind saying the way the Republic went about dealing with the actual Troubles as tearing itself apart but not with the whole Home Rule and Unionism in 1912.

I've thought about this, and I won't be continuing on this subject. I've far too much invested in what happened, what happens and what will happen.

Suffice to say my family were "involved" heavily.

Ok that's fair enough and I respect that but I just think you could have picked a btter year from the list.

Volf99:

Gallium:

number2301:
for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Yea, worked out well for southern ireland that din' it.

Breaking up the UK would be the worst thing for all countries involved.

Also Thatcher was a horrible, horrible human being. There's a difference between taking a hard line with the public to do what the country really needs and selling everyone out to privatise practically everything.

I have no interest in this film, especially if we're forced to somehow relate to her and ignore the valid arguments against what she was doing.

Wow, I usually don't judge trailers or movies off the bat but that looked incredibly boring. There was no scene that caught my interest, while all the scenes made it look like everyone was out to get her. Makes me wonder what the movie's focus is on really, if it's about her life or just one side of it, from her eyes.

Anyhow I won't see this movie. Usually I come around to maybe rent a movie or check it out but this really drove me off. It's just.. the scenes, they all show nothing that wants me to get into it. The sad part is that Bob usually shows more of the movie then the trailers do so.. if that's the case I am glad Bob reviewed it. Sorry to say, but this movie shouldn't of been made (at least yet.)

Lusty:

Volf99:

Barciad:
Just to say, for those that don't know too much about her in real life. Imagine if Dick Cheney was a woman.

lol, get serious. That is an incredibly biased/silly comment to make. I was under the impression that she actually did some good for the UK. I'm not saying it was all good, but to compare here to Cheney? No, that's going to far.

As far as some of her policies/views are concerned, in regards to EU there seem to be people like Nigel Farage(who is in the UK Independence Party) that dislike the EU as much as she did.

Here is what I am referring to....


I have yet to hear an elected politician from an Independent American political party say the same things that Cheney said.

Wow. Did you just try defend someone by comparing their views to Nigel Farage?! Let's get some perspective on that guy...

On race relations:

Nigel Farage ... told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked "We will never win the nigger vote. The nig-nogs will never vote for us", according to Dr Sked.

On terrorism:

In January 2004, MEPs from several parties and countries received letter bombs. The targets included Gary Titley, leader of the Labour group of MEPs, whose assistant was injured in the attack. UKIP issued a press release in which they said that they could "understand the reasons behind [the attacks]".In the face of widespread public outcry, the UKIP leadership then issued a statement in which they refused to withdraw their remarks and in fact congratulated their MEP Nigel Farage on making them.

Mr Titley's letter bomb attack was followed by a deluge of electronic hate-mail from people who endorsed UKIP's views on terrorism. The party itself denied any involvement.

On professionalism:

UKIP's founder leader Dr Alan Sked has revealed that Nigel Farage MEP often failed in his duties because he was "blind drunk". Dr Sked has added: "UKIP's MEPs are a standing joke at Strasbourg, where their attendance record, even by the standards of most MEPs, is relatively poor and where, according to independent research by the European Studies centre at the London School of Economics, the three often vote in different ways on the same issue."

On his own bloody job:

Nigel Farage MEP has admitted that he had "no idea how [the European Parliament] worked" when he was elected.

On law:

On 4 September 2000, police and local trading standards officers seized four video copies of a BBC TV documentary, The Enemy Within, when they raided UKIP's South East branch offices in Redhill. Nigel Farage MEP had been copying and selling them illegally in breach of copyright. Jeffrey Titford MEP later claimed that Farage had done so because he was irritated that the BBC had decided not to screen the documentary in which he featured.

Also in 2000, the European Parliament ordered UKIP to repay 11,500 of expenses. The party had diverted surplus travel expenses to fund the failed court cases of the 'metric martyrs', market traders who were taken to court for refusing to display metric measurements alongside imperial ones when selling their wares. Nigel Farage MEP has since repeated UKIP's intention to use parliamentary expenses "to further the objectives of UKIP back in Britain".

The BNP links:

Nigel Farage MEP has admitted meeting Dr Mark Deavin (the BNP's then head of research who had briefly infiltrated UKIP as Research Director and NEC member to pass on information about its work to the BNP until being expelled from UKIP in May 1997) over lunch on 17 June 1997 at the latter's request, to discuss his defection from UKIP to the BNP.65 Farage was also photographed in June 1997 chatting to the BNP's Tony 'The Bomber' Lecomber66 (who has served two prison sentences: he was jailed for three years in 1985 for possession of explosives, and for three years in 1991 for stabbing a Jewish schoolteacher).

Think the Cheney comparisons were quite complimentary in comparison...

I was referring exclusively to both her and him not liking the EU. From their, I was pointing out how both people came to a similar conclusion despite the fact that she was a conservative and he was an independent. To my knowledge, I have not heard a independent party elected politician hold any of the same views as Dick Chaney(a republican).

Lethos:
Anyway I wasn't alive when Thatcher was in power however I do know that the country was actually pretty shitty before she got into power and she did manage to get our economy back on track. Probably simplifying it a bit, but meh.

You could replace the name "Thatcher" in the above statement with the name "Hitler" and it would still be true, and still only tell a fraction of the story.

Abandon4093:

Volf99:

Gallium:

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Yea, worked out well for southern ireland that din' it.

Ok I'm not agreeing with what he's saying but you're not helping and that is really low on the scale of things you could say. Ireland wanted separation because there was genuine abuse of the country and the indigenous population for years that has only stopped in the last decade or so.

Targie:

Because providing it costs money. Money that could be saved by not providing it.
This was a -good- decision.

I'm a northerner. I grew up on a council estate, I'm most definitely still working class and there's quite possibly nothing I fear more than the middle-upper class being in positions of authority.

Thatcher is not our equivalent of Dick Cheney or Bin Laden. I'm not going to totally outline my political views here but 30 years on, do children get free milk (at the expense of the government) at schools? And all of them mines, they've opened up again right? No?... Interesting

........seriously? Come on, it seems like a lot of people don't like her. Please tell me it is for more serious reasons than taking away free milk.


As for the mines, I get that it takes jobs away, but (I realize this is an unpopular view) I'm glad they stopped coal mining. I'm not saying this to be a troll, but because I'm worried about the environment and I hate the idea that we still use coal. I don't care if its "clean", solar/wind/hydro/natural gas are better choices. I'm not trying to be a dick about the mining issue, I just think the environment is more important than any countries ability to employ people, even if it affect my own ability to find employment

Sovvolf:
I, like many Northerners, had steam, boiling hot steam cannoning from my ears when I even watched the trailers never mind the bloody film. The fact that the film apparently glosses over most the shit she did is nothing short of offensive.

The Artificially Prolonged:

And incidentially when she does die, we should get the guiness record guys here to witness the worlds biggest congo line to pass over someone's grave.

All the North will be united for one special day and it will be like the end of The Return of The Jedi.

Don't forget the Midlands!

BlackStar42:

Sovvolf:
I, like many Northerners, had steam, boiling hot steam cannoning from my ears when I even watched the trailers never mind the bloody film. The fact that the film apparently glosses over most the shit she did is nothing short of offensive.

The Artificially Prolonged:

And incidentially when she does die, we should get the guiness record guys here to witness the worlds biggest congo line to pass over someone's grave.

All the North will be united for one special day and it will be like the end of The Return of The Jedi.

Don't forget the Midlands!

Okay, the Midlands can come too... The more the merrier I say, we can all gather in a conga singing "Ding dong the witch is dead" while getting drunk, partying, celebrating and digging that hole Frankie wants.

number2301:
Yeah I pretty much knew I wouldn't watch this regardless. Why? A bit of context for Americans, for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

North of England? lol pretty much every working class citizen in the entire of the british isles might be more truth

Oh good because what we want is the mistakes of the past to be washed away to avoid hurting anybody's feelings
Brilliant! Lets have one for Hitler next and emphasize his desire for a utopia and his veganism. All those accusations of genocide are probably just made up to stamp out his dreams!

I know thats a different level, but seriously dodging the bad points of her career (ie ALL OF IT) doesn't just make it boring but also re writes history and willingly breeds ignorance for no better reason that that they couldn't put any of that in without raising a few eyebrows and HEAVEN forbid we make something controversial for once Holywood ay you great Nancy?

Gallium:

DSQ:

Do you really think that that will happen?

In time, yes. The death of "one nation" conservatism which Thatcher led resulted in the wiping out of the centre right in Scotland, the (until recently) domination of the majority of Scotland by the Labour party and the rise of a social democratic nationalism in the form of the SNP. A few things needed to happen before this became clear.

First, the old "Churchill" Conservatives needed to die. The generation that remembered WW2 voted Tory and were pro-union. That generation is passing/passed. Harsh, but true.
Second, the ruling party, Labour, slipped up as all ruling parties will eventually do.
Third, the switch to the opposition, the SNP. And as per their reason for existing, there will be a vote on Scottish Independence.

Will the vote pass? Stranger things have happened. Indeed the SNP came from further behind in the polls to win the last election.
But what is sure, there is a real appetite to extend the powers of devolved government. The "Devo Max" option. Scotland in charge of *everything* bar Defence and Foreign Policy. Recent polling suggests that over 70% of voters would like to see that, and the SNP would be mad not to let the public vote for it.

If "Devo Max" passes, Scotland is just in the UK for foreign relations and defence. You can see what happens next.

It will take just one Iraq war type of situation for full independence.
And we all know how much Prime Ministers like to pretend we are still world military power....

Matter of time.

Very well said. That is why west minister doesn't want the DEVO max question being asked, most people would vote yes then Scotland is virtually independent already and that is much more likely to get support.

Bluecho:
Has anyone seen Britain's welfare state these days? This may just be me, but me thinks we could do with another Margarat Thatcher.

How does one go about the task of making a film about a complex historical figure that doesn't neatly fall into the tired Left/Right political division? By sidestepping the controvesies entirely and making the protagonist sympathetic by default.

Good going, film! Way to push the envelope!

I already responded to a similar comment on facebook so im just gnna copy paste it.

The welfare system as it was did get drastically changed. From the beveridgean right to benefit it shifted to means testing. People now in order to claim benefit now need to prove they are either looking for work or incapable of working.

Although in theory this sounds like a good system it ment those seeking to exist solely on benefit would become disabled in some way. Funnily enough "diseases" like alcoholism and drug addiction will get you marked for disability meaning those who are genuine wasters got off with it and those who were either genuinely disabled or looking for work were forced through layers of bureaucracy that hinders the time they can actually spend looking for work.

Thatcher did do some good though she isn't evil, brutal yes but not evil as so many claim, just with an extreme political ethos.

The unions did have too much power (although she went to the other extream), and she did sort out the economy (again in the most brutal fashion).

I agree that we need a strong leader but scotland already has one. Hes called Alex salmond, he's the only politician in recent years who is actually making steps to try to improve his country AND is a shrewd political animal who can stand toe to toe with anyone in a debate and come out on top.

Glademaster:

Abandon4093:

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Yea, worked out well for southern ireland that din' it.

Ok I'm not agreeing with what he's saying but you're not helping and that is really low on the scale of things you could say. Ireland wanted separation because there was genuine abuse of the country and the indigenous population for years that has only stopped in the last decade or so.

I'd be the first one to call out the shit that our government does. But there are times when you have to put pride away and look at the larger picture. Separating 4 countries who economies are so closely linked, and have been for a long time, at this stage. It's downright fucking lunacy. And southern Ireland proved that. That's where all our countries will end up if we're forced to separate.

And right now, things being as they are. Both NI and Scotland aren't being mistreated by our unified government. Infact Scotland (the ones pushing a referendum) are getting a very good deal at the minute, because of the hickery do-dah about the north sea oil. The annual subsidiary, not having tot pay university tuition and preferential NHS treatment being most prominent.

At this stage in the game it's not like any of us can say one country or another is being mistreated. Regardless of our less than acceptable history.

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