Escape to the Movies: Iron Lady

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Good to see MovieBob still knows how to jump on a bandwagon. Yeah, the movie is a bit too tame for my taste as well, but the fashionable political position comes through a bit too much in the review for my taste.

"It's fashionable to dismiss Streep as being less of a great actress than she is a gifted impressionist"

I've never heard anyone say that, and if I ever did, I would just assume that they had only ever seen the trailers for this and July and Julia.

Just watched it today.

First of all, I have to admit to being deeply, deeply ignorant about British politics and modern British history. Heck, I didn't even know who Margaret Thatcher was until a couple years ago, and even then had only a vague notion of her being a strong-willed past prime minister of Britain ('s what I get for being born in the 90's -_-). So I came into the movie knowing almost nothing about her and her corresponding years in office.

As a result, I really appreciated the personal yet politically-neutral approach the film took. Yes, yes, I know a lot of biopics take that route, and it can seem cowardly and lily-livered...but I found it helpful as a essentially-neutral (unknowledgeable) viewer. I just wanted to know about the woman, about the events surrounding her; I would have had no use for political subtext and bias. And I felt I got a good idea of who she was and what she was like, so I went away satisfied. True, no other characters received the same blessed narrative treatment that Streep's got: revealed motives, inner conflicts, etc. But isn't that how it should be by default? The movie's about one person and her perspective, not anyone else's. *shrugs* The film wasn't mind-blowing, and in fact its ending was too abrupt, but it was edifying--for me, at least.

To be fair, I may not have seen as many biopics as you have, Bob. I'd be fed up, too, if I saw countless flicks like this.

p.s.--I do agree: they should've waited 'til Margaret Thatcher had passed away. As humanizing (and therefore sympathetic) a portrait the movie is, nobody wants to see themselves portrayed as psychologically delusional and feeble-minded. Leave the old lady alone; let her die in peace, biopic-less.

The thing is, any "personal" portrayal of Margret Thatcther would be wrong. She was a old school conservative. Unemotional and hard as nails. They called her the "Iron Lady" for a reason. She had a complete lack of sentimentality and very little sympathy. Meryl's portrayal would probably focus on her "humanity" and as far as I can tell, that's something few people saw (I'm not meaning this is a cruel way. Frankly I don't care what personality traits political leaders have, it's their actions and decisions that matter).

If you've ever read or seen her use of the SAS from the Falklands War to using them in the Prison Riots and Northern Ireland I'm guessing it'd make her seem less rosey as a movie character.

To be honest I think she's a pretty poor topic for a film. TV-biopic maybe, but not this.

I saw this film about a week ago -- mainly to watch Meryl Streep do her thing -- and while it did gloss over a lot of things, it baffles me slightly when people see that as offensive. It's a film, guys. They're not exactly known for staggering historical accuracy.

And Lordy, the hate in this thread! I'm no Thatcher expert by any measure of the imagination, but (*obligatory flameshield*) no matter what she did or how monstrous her leadership may have been, her actions weren't exactly on par with Hitler's. Planning parties and breaking out the champagne the day she dies? Stay classy, North England!

why no hollywood spin? why no thrid act assassin?

that would be a movie I'd pay to see!

Mary you're nearly a treat,
But you're really a cry

number2301:

Gallium:

number2301:
for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

Ha! I got the message to say I'd been quoted and was certain someone was going to be accusing me of exaggerating! Guess not ;)

Also, Scotland don't go! I really like our flag :(

If we do seccede from the union (which is looking unlikely, even now) then, well.... we know how traditionally left-wing Scotland tends to be, at least when compared to England. Gargantuan ecenomic and political implications aside (because I don't understand them at all and it's too late and I'm too tired to bother) it might be interesting to see Scotland completely ruling itself, at least in terms of how our politics would evolve. you never know, we might be rid of conservatism for a very, very long time if we seccede.

Sticking to today's theme of "bollocks to Thatcher" I may as well throw in the fact that I'm completely biased since I grew up in a socialist household, raised by parents who constantly banged on about how she managed to singlehandedly fuck over every working class man, woman and child while selling Britian down the river. Out go those unfashionable, loutish working-class people with the occasional bit of dirt under their fingernails who make a living sustaining British industry, and in with gurning moneyed public-schooled trust-fund shit-eyed estate-owning besuited cityboys!.

My deepest sympathy to all her loved ones when she finally passes away and my heatfelt condolences to those who cared for her, and who, in turn, were cared for by her as they suffer the pain of loss as yet another life leaves this world behind. No death is to be celebrated. Not now, not ever.

Good. now that that is out of the way, let me just say that every single impression I have of her, from word-of-mouth to opinions from both sides of the spectrum to the objective, straight-up facts I've heard to the vast quantities of media I've seen about that period of british history, has coloured my opinion of her as a mad, hateful, despicable old waste of fucking flesh who crippled most of us before we were even born. I'll never hate Cameron that much, because he just has no clue what he's doing. At least he wasn't actively malicious.

Everything that I see and hear about this woman gives me the impression that creating a warm-hearted, deeply "personal" protrayal of her extraordinarily controversial career is like ignoring a mountain to write a story about a molehill.

Magichead:

As to the film, I could just tell from the simpering trailers that this was going to be a fawning whitewash of one of the most villainous, monstrous, sickening periods of government this country has ever seen, and I will not even give its creators the credit of pirating it. It must be driven home to these delirious retards in the City and its attendant slave-states in the South that most of us consider that Poll-Taxing, Strike-breaking, tax-cutting, sandy-vag'd cuntbucket to be the earthly incarnation of Satan's festering, infected arsehole, and we will not tolerate her lionisation by a modern Tory movement desperate to put a veil of acceptability over their disastrous legacy.

I cannot wait for the mad old bitch to die, I will be making a pilgrimage to wherever they inter her ragged old corpse to literally dance on, or near depending on police presence, her grave. Ideally, I will do so while singing "ding-dong, the witch is dead" at the top of my voice.

Despite the fact that this defies sentiments I just expressed, I loved this post. If there's dancing on the streets when Thatcher dies (and let's be honest: there most likely will be, at least in Scotland) I'll probably join in. Not because I'd actively enjoy celebrating someone's death (which is ghoulish) but because it'd be, beneath the surface, an upbeat and heartfelt expression of anti-conservatism. That right there is a good reason to have a party.

Monsterfurby:
Good to see MovieBob still knows how to jump on a bandwagon. Yeah, the movie is a bit too tame for my taste as well, but the fashionable political position comes through a bit too much in the review for my taste.

Yeah, how dare he disagree with your personal political sensibilities. Doesn't MovieBob know that straying from total objectivity = death when discussing politics!?

Volf99:

Targie:

Because providing it costs money. Money that could be saved by not providing it.
This was a -good- decision.

I'm a northerner. I grew up on a council estate, I'm most definitely still working class and there's quite possibly nothing I fear more than the middle-upper class being in positions of authority.

Thatcher is not our equivalent of Dick Cheney or Bin Laden. I'm not going to totally outline my political views here but 30 years on, do children get free milk (at the expense of the government) at schools? And all of them mines, they've opened up again right? No?... Interesting

........seriously? Come on, it seems like a lot of people don't like her. Please tell me it is for more serious reasons than taking away free milk.

It is more serious, but the Milk thing gets thrown around a lot because it's just silly. She privatises damn near everything, destroys the democtratic organisations built from and paid for by their members in order to represent and unite the working man under a common banner, shuts down countless working-class jobs, exacerbates violence in Ireland, uses Scotland as a lab rat for her Poll Tax idea, etc. etc. etc....

...and stole milk from the little kiddywinks.

You see? it's not that it's a legitimate reason to hate her, it's just a little in-joke about how Thatcher is seen as malicious by a great deal of people. Just when they thought she couldn't get more cold and frightening, she literally starts taking milk away from little kids like some fairytale goblin. At that point, even her biggest detractors probably had trouble mustering up anything other than confused laughter and cries of "really?!"

Someone else linked this video. It's entertaining:

I-Protest-I:
I grew up in what used to be a largely mining community, I've heard the horror stories of what the police did to my granddad and uncles. How people who were striking to go back to low paying jobs just so they could provide for their families. How after all of it when there weren't enough jobs entire communities were destroyed. I only ever saw my granddad cry once and it was when he spoke of how he couldn't afford to feed my mum or her 2 brothers while living in a small 2 bedroom house.

He was the greatest man I ever knew and the person who caused all of this pain? Yeah she gets a movie showing how amazing she is.

Quoted for manly tears and genuine... sympathy? respect? whatever it is, you get it from me for this post.

Ruairi iliffe:

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

I'm sorry, Thatcher Might have messed up my homeland as much as the next, but if honesty you think the UK breaking up would honestly make Ireland United, I've a soild 22 odd years of my life living in Co. Armagh and Down Knowing that is the biggest insult I've heard in a long while.

OT, I'd hoped the flim would be a bit fleshed out, but looks like something that would just piss me off than anything.

I forgot to ask, are you or your family Protestant?

Volf99:

Ruairi iliffe:

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

I'm sorry, Thatcher Might have messed up my homeland as much as the next, but if honesty you think the UK breaking up would honestly make Ireland United, I've a soild 22 odd years of my life living in Co. Armagh and Down Knowing that is the biggest insult I've heard in a long while.

OT, I'd hoped the flim would be a bit fleshed out, but looks like something that would just piss me off than anything.

I forgot to ask, are you or your family Protestant?

Well now thats a loaded question, i take it going by your profile you are American or at least are living there, so You might not get why thats an awfully risky question to ask someone from N.I.

Saying that i was not one for convention, and honesty didnt give a crap about it due to alot of things happening in my life, But to answer your question i am Baptised Protestant from my fathers side, while my mother was catholic and i suffered all though a fully Protestant high school, before finially saying fuck that shit and becoming a stauch Angnostic thesis with a strong desire to punch extremests of either end in the throat.

Ruairi iliffe:

Volf99:

Ruairi iliffe:

I'm sorry, Thatcher Might have messed up my homeland as much as the next, but if honesty you think the UK breaking up would honestly make Ireland United, I've a soild 22 odd years of my life living in Co. Armagh and Down Knowing that is the biggest insult I've heard in a long while.

OT, I'd hoped the flim would be a bit fleshed out, but looks like something that would just piss me off than anything.

I forgot to ask, are you or your family Protestant?

Well now thats a loaded question, i take it going by your profile you are American or at least are living there, so You might not get why thats an awfully risky question to ask someone from N.I.

Saying that i was not one for convention, and honesty didnt give a crap about it due to alot of things happening in my life, But to answer your question i am Baptised Protestant from my fathers side, while my mother was catholic and i suffered all though a fully Protestant high school, before finially saying fuck that shit and becoming a stauch Angnostic thesis with a strong desire to punch extremests of either end in the throat.

Oh, I'm well aware of what that can mean if you say your Protestant or Catholic. I guess from what you typed, your both then, even though you were wrongly persecuted by Protestants. Fine with me that your Agnostic, as long as you don't support the Orange Order and their marches through Catholic neighborhoods.

Volf99:

Ruairi iliffe:

Volf99:

I forgot to ask, are you or your family Protestant?

Well now thats a loaded question, i take it going by your profile you are American or at least are living there, so You might not get why thats an awfully risky question to ask someone from N.I.

Saying that i was not one for convention, and honesty didnt give a crap about it due to alot of things happening in my life, But to answer your question i am Baptised Protestant from my fathers side, while my mother was catholic and i suffered all though a fully Protestant high school, before finially saying fuck that shit and becoming a stauch Angnostic thesis with a strong desire to punch extremests of either end in the throat.

Oh, I'm well aware of what that can mean if you say your Protestant or Catholic. I guess from what you typed, your both then, even though you were wrongly persecuted by Protestants. Fine with me that your Agnostic, as long as you don't support the Orange Order and their marches through Catholic neighborhoods.

Oh no, both sides are as bad as im a Mongrel to most, and with the Wiki links, you kinda are missing the mark on the grounds that catholic = Republican or Prodestant = Ulsterman crap. its not black and white as that, as most these days dislike the south goverment as much as the English, to try and get back on topic thatcher and other MPs did fuck around abit with my homeland and we tend to hate them for what they did, but IF some fucked up fasion all the 'Prods' simply ended up in england one day, i can tell you a good chunk of 'Irishman' will tell the south to feck off and stay indpendent/stick to the UK. We dont Make anything really anymore and when we did it was for the english (crops,ships,Cloths) and only went to shit because of the crap thatcher stired up again.

/end rant about homeland

Ruairi iliffe:

Oh no, both sides are as bad as im a Mongrel to most, and with the Wiki links, you kinda are missing the mark on the grounds that catholic = Republican or Prodestant = Ulsterman crap. its not black and white as that, as most these days dislike the south goverment as much as the English, to try and get back on topic thatcher and other MPs did fuck around abit with my homeland and we tend to hate them for what they did, but IF some fucked up fasion all the 'Prods' simply ended up in england one day, i can tell you a good chunk of 'Irishman' will tell the south to feck off and stay indpendent/stick to the UK. We dont Make anything really anymore and when we did it was for the english (crops,ships,Cloths) and only went to shit because of the crap thatcher stired up again.

/end rant about homeland

Both sides might be "bad" but when getting past Prods versus Catholics, in regards to the English(and the UK by association) historical reaction to Ireland independence, I would ask you to look at a earlier conversation I had.....

Volf99:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Steam?

Volf99:

good, then maybe Ireland will finally be united

Son, Ireland tore itself apart back in 1912.

I realize that, but England played a role in trying to suppress the Irish pursuit for freedom from the English. The British have played a part in causing misery long after 1912. Margret Thatcher also helped make things worse by denying people their rights.

A little off topic, but...
[EDIT: Video has been removed do to a persons request and the URL is provided instead.] Here is the song that I thought of when discussing this topic

As for your comment,

but IF some fucked up fasion all the 'Prods' simply ended up in england one day, i can tell you a good chunk of 'Irishman' will tell the south to feck off and stay indpendent/stick to the UK.

I think there are certain groups of people (like these people, these people, these people, these people, and these people) might disagree with that statement.

Volf99:

Ruairi iliffe:

Oh no, both sides are as bad as im a Mongrel to most, and with the Wiki links, you kinda are missing the mark on the grounds that catholic = Republican or Prodestant = Ulsterman crap. its not black and white as that, as most these days dislike the south goverment as much as the English, to try and get back on topic thatcher and other MPs did fuck around abit with my homeland and we tend to hate them for what they did, but IF some fucked up fasion all the 'Prods' simply ended up in england one day, i can tell you a good chunk of 'Irishman' will tell the south to feck off and stay indpendent/stick to the UK. We dont Make anything really anymore and when we did it was for the english (crops,ships,Cloths) and only went to shit because of the crap thatcher stired up again.

/end rant about homeland

Both sides might be "bad" but when getting past Prods versus Catholics, in regards to the English(and the UK by association) historical reaction to Ireland independence, I would ask you to look at a earlier conversation I had.....

Volf99:

The_root_of_all_evil:
Steam?

Son, Ireland tore itself apart back in 1912.

I realize that, but England played a role in trying to suppress the Irish pursuit for freedom from the English. The British have played a part in causing misery long after 1912. Margret Thatcher also helped make things worse by denying people their rights.

A little off topic, but...
[EDIT: Video has been removed do to a persons request and the URL is provided instead.] Here is the song that I thought of when discussing this topic

As for your comment,

but IF some fucked up fasion all the 'Prods' simply ended up in england one day, i can tell you a good chunk of 'Irishman' will tell the south to feck off and stay indpendent/stick to the UK.

I think there are certain groups of people (like these people, these people, these people, these people, and these people) might disagree with that statement.

Ah yes the good old Para's, come knocking on your door asking if you wihs to Help your fellow man out, before long your a thug pushing Guns/petrol/drugs on your nearest council estate, many a time ive told them to Fuck right off. Now i know you are citing your sources with good old wiki there, but may i ask, have you lived or stayed in any of the northern counties in the last 5-10 years? Because i'd tell you know, NO one wants the past to come back, and attempting a 'Unitied ireland' when it hasnt been relivant in over 100 years and it it causes is violence and people living behind those lovey 'Peace walls' blocking off streets of people who lived no less than 5 meters away once. The old guard are dieing off and i can tell you most young men/women these days dont give a crap of the old times. To us a unitied ireland means stuck with the southern goverment, who have a hard time working out what economies are.

Ruairi iliffe:

Volf99:

Ruairi iliffe:

Oh no, both sides are as bad as im a Mongrel to most, and with the Wiki links, you kinda are missing the mark on the grounds that catholic = Republican or Prodestant = Ulsterman crap. its not black and white as that, as most these days dislike the south goverment as much as the English, to try and get back on topic thatcher and other MPs did fuck around abit with my homeland and we tend to hate them for what they did, but IF some fucked up fasion all the 'Prods' simply ended up in england one day, i can tell you a good chunk of 'Irishman' will tell the south to feck off and stay indpendent/stick to the UK. We dont Make anything really anymore and when we did it was for the english (crops,ships,Cloths) and only went to shit because of the crap thatcher stired up again.

/end rant about homeland

Both sides might be "bad" but when getting past Prods versus Catholics, in regards to the English(and the UK by association) historical reaction to Ireland independence, I would ask you to look at a earlier conversation I had.....

Volf99:

I realize that, but England played a role in trying to suppress the Irish pursuit for freedom from the English. The British have played a part in causing misery long after 1912. Margret Thatcher also helped make things worse by denying people their rights.

A little off topic, but...
[EDIT: Video has been removed do to a persons request and the URL is provided instead.] Here is the song that I thought of when discussing this topic

As for your comment,

but IF some fucked up fasion all the 'Prods' simply ended up in england one day, i can tell you a good chunk of 'Irishman' will tell the south to feck off and stay indpendent/stick to the UK.

I think there are certain groups of people (like these people, these people, these people, these people, and these people) might disagree with that statement.

Ah yes the good old Para's, come knocking on your door asking if you wihs to Help your fellow man out, before long your a thug pushing Guns/petrol/drugs on your nearest council estate, many a time ive told them to Fuck right off. Now i know you are citing your sources with good old wiki there, but may i ask, have you lived or stayed in any of the northern counties in the last 5-10 years? Because i'd tell you know, NO one wants the past to come back, and attempting a 'Unitied ireland' when it hasnt been relivant in over 100 years and it it causes is violence and people living behind those lovey 'Peace walls' blocking off streets of people who lived no less than 5 meters away once. The old guard are dieing off and i can tell you most young men/women these days dont give a crap of the old times. To us a unitied ireland means stuck with the southern goverment, who have a hard time working out what economies are.

did you look at the last two groups I cited?

Volf99:

did you look at the last two groups I cited?

I'd admit after the first 3 i started to assume the tone of your posting, sorry.

And yes i am Very Very aware of those groups, living close to Armagh you see enough of their faces on signs everyday.

It does not change that the Para's you linked though are mostly made up of 'old guard' and recurited asbo thugs, and while Mr. Adams and his lot give a good word, it dosnt change its an old sentiment and one slowly turning into a southern land grab.

....This sounded like the type of movie I would love to see, a biographical account of a famous and history-changing person's life.

Then you tell me none of what would make it interesting and debate worthy makes it in there.

'sigh' And I was going to rent this for kicks.

Gallium:

number2301:
for people from the north of England, Thatcher is our Bin Laden. No exaggeration.

He isn't kidding. Scotland too. In light of recent events it is fast becoming apparent that her ultimate legacy will be the break up of the United Kingdom.

Hated in Ireland too, North and South. Her solution to the troubles just increased the divide between Catholics and Protestants.

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