No Right Explanation: Sarah Connor Chronicles vs Firefly

Cool stuff. I was waiting for your guys to finally get a column, so I'm glad you finally did. It is cool to see how in depth you actually get with these arguments, so kudos to that!

Lena Headey's in A Game of Thrones. Though TSCC should not have been cut at a cliffhanger like so many network sci fi serials are (V, Heroes, Flash Forward just to name 3), she at least has moved on. Summer on the other hand is in actor limbo, only appearing in the Cape (silly Batman knockoff that it was) and an episode of Alphas since. Somewhere in the back of my mind I hope that these shows will see a tv-movie to close the lingering plotlines, I know that this likely will never happen. Firefly was lucky to see a movie greenlit like it did, another point for its rabid fanbase. TSCC likely doesn't have a following because Terminator has been the go-to action movie staple for decades. It's easy to not care about a serialized version of a movie franchise.

Keep Dan on sometimes. He may be giggly but thats what made it much more fun for us too.

Firefly is the cult stuff because it was so short. The last two episodes weren't very good. We know how it works: you have a small bunch of good episodes a season, a bombastic season ending and the rest is crap.

Case in point: Dollhouse. The first season was kinda okay mostly, but only the 2nd season was truly great and it really showed the potential. Why? Because the producers KNEW they're only going to get a 2nd season and nothing more. So they stuffed the story of several seasons into one. Otherwise we'd get maybe 5 seasons of mostly shit.

There's just one exception to the rule - Babylon 5, where the whole friggin story for 5 seasons was written in advance. At one point, it seemed the show will be canceled prematurely so they had to stuff two seasons into one. That's the only case where a TV show was actually moving too fast. In every other show, it's the opposite.

TSSC was a better show than Firefly by a long shot. Firefly is nice - nice characters, nice settings etc, amazing few episodes, but if it would continue, it would quickly become mediocre.

You want to see a show TRULY fucked? Odyssey 5 ended with a cliffhanger! And it happens to be the 2nd best sci-fi show ever.

algalon:
Lena Headey's in A Game of Thrones. Though TSCC should not have been cut at a cliffhanger like so many network sci fi serials are (V, Heroes, Flash Forward just to name 3), she at least has moved on. Somewhere in the back of my mind I hope that these shows will see a tv-movie to close the lingering plotlines, I know that this likely will never happen.

Yeah, I came here to basically say both, I can't believe he missed Headey in Game of Thrones. Anyway, I really want a movie sequel to The Sarah Conner Chronicles, that would be great, or at least a novel or comic. It would have been nice if Heroes got one too, since Season 4 really picked up. Couldn't care less about V though that show got really bad (Soul sucking machines? Really?), and I never bothered with Flash Forward since I had a flash forward to it's inevitable demise (Gee, aren't I clever?).

algalon:
Summer on the other hand is in actor limbo, only appearing in the Cape (silly Batman knockoff that it was) and an episode of Alphas since

I was wondering what the hack happened to Summer. Then I saw some 'love boat' romance movie with her (no really) and now I know: she's a shitty actress. It's no coincidence all her characters are un-empathic. She can't do any acting whatsoever.

(She's still cute and I want to see her in another cyborg movie.)

I appreciate how we can also get a more coherent version of the debate in column form.

I always wondered how the points worked, it didn't seem to me that Dan could be judging it so easily as they went along and immediately tell them the result. I'm pleasantly surprised, I thought a lot of this must be scripted to be so good, but it turns out you guys are just that talented :D

Great read still I'm going with firefly on this one even though both are great. And again my most disappointed cancled show has to be the middleman at least the last episode was a proper one.

To be fair, it's impossible to say that Firefly had hit its peak when it got the axe, based upon Whedon's past history. His shows are slow burners, and the first season is never the best(with the obvious exception of Firefly). Would anyone have been satisfied with Dollhouse(if you liked Dollhouse) if it hadn't gotten a second season? What about Buffy? Heck, I would go as far to say that Whedon might not have even had a career if Buffy had only its first season to stand on(which was formulaic monster-of-the-week business).

The Sarah Conner Chronicles were certainly great, and I wish it hadn't gotten canceled, but I don't think it had more potential(though not necessarily less either) than Firefly. I will say that I found the direction they were heading questionable though(traveling to the future the first time was a way of modernizing the show without breaking continuity[such as it is in a show with time travel{yes I'm nesting parentheses and brackets in the English language<deal with it>}], the second time was just a gimmick, IMO). They might have turned it into something great, but its equally likely that they were coming up with story hooks via a repurposed D&D loot chart and dice with that one.

Firefly.

If you actually remember when it was released, Fox sat there with a dumb look on it's face while it failed to compete with the ending seasons of Friends.

No one was competing with Friends when it was going through the final seasons, but Fox decided it needed to give Firefly the kiss of death and give it a friday time slot.

And the "Han Solo" archetype predates....Han Solo.

Good to get some more insights into the process you guys go through. Good stuff.

I don't get the "oh, Mal was just a re-skinned Han Solo" argument. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Han, while I do love the character dearly, was quite shallow in the end. A smuggler with a heart of gold, there was no great conflict beyond the first film where he had to choose between friends and an easy pay. That was it.

Mal, on the other hand, is a wonderfully conflicted character. He was a volunteer in the war that he believed in, very devout and religious during the campaign and now utterly broken because of losing all that he believed in. He is in constant conflict over letting himself have trust or feelings towards anything, and uses the raggedy nature of his job as an excuse to hide in space. I firmly believe that if Firefly had been allowed to continue, he would have been regarded as one fo the greatest fictional characters of the decade, or many decades, that had been created.

Isn't Lena Headey in a Game of Thrones? Yeah I think she is pretty set ;)

Regardless of that I this TSCC was probably the better choice for this debate (despite me not seeing it and me loving Firefly) as Firefly, unfortunately, really never got the chance to get going with a major storyline. Sure there were hints of it being awesome with the blue hands guys but mostly it was a series of stand-alone episodes. Very good stand-alone episodes mind you.

Personally i liked Firefly better. After all, its my top 2 best Sci-Fi tv series. But i liked the Sarah Connor Chronicles too. As far as FOX goes, if you take a list of good tv series cancelled after their first/second season, you will notice that FOX takes 75% of the list, and the other ~10 channels take the rest 25%.
This can tells us two things: either other channels dont have good/popular series or they don't let go of them.
However i can see how FOX can go and retaliate with the fact that "we are letting many small guys try their best but then people dont watch it". except that people don't watch it not because its bad series, but because its FOX, and they know its going to be cancelled mid-season anyway and its not like FOX reputation is very good either.

There's just one exception to the rule - Babylon 5, where the whole friggin story for 5 seasons was written in advance. At one point, it seemed the show will be canceled prematurely so they had to stuff two seasons into one. That's the only case where a TV show was actually moving too fast. In every other show, it's the opposite.

Actually this is untrue. The original contract was for 3 seasons. After its success they got extension to 4th season, then 5th season. The guy says so himself in the commentary. Bablylon 5 is my top 1 Sci-Fi tv show :D

Having never seen Firefly up until recently, due to my Joss Whedon allergy, I'm voting for Terminator.

II'm not sure if this has been suggested or not before, but wouldn't it be nice if under each video a poll was open for us to vote on? I'd like to see what the consensus is here at a glance.

OT: Firefly. Definitely.

Swny Nerdgasm:
Having never seen Firefly up until recently, due to my Joss Whedon allergy, I'm voting for Terminator.

*Puts on his browncoat* Oh no you didn't!!!! ;)

OT: Only good thing about Terminator series was Summer Glau. So unless the sentance above this isn't obvious enough. Im gonna have to say that Firefly is by far the better.

Lena Headey is doing Just fine as CERSEI FUCKING LANNISTER, I know it has been said before but she came out of TSCC probably better than anyone from both series, she now has one of the major roles in what is hopefully going to be a 7-8 season long HBO blockbuster and from that she will either end up as an HBO staple for further seried or get herself some other big roles.

as a GoT fanboy I may be (read I am totally) biased but few Production companies have the pedigree that HBO commands

Sgt. Sykes:
Firefly is the cult stuff because it was so short. The last two episodes weren't very good. We know how it works: you have a small bunch of good episodes a season, a bombastic season ending and the rest is crap.

Case in point: Dollhouse. The first season was kinda okay mostly, but only the 2nd season was truly great and it really showed the potential. Why? Because the producers KNEW they're only going to get a 2nd season and nothing more. So they stuffed the story of several seasons into one. Otherwise we'd get maybe 5 seasons of mostly shit.

TSSC was a better show than Firefly by a long shot. Firefly is nice - nice characters, nice settings etc, amazing few episodes, but if it would continue, it would quickly become mediocre.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. Firefly had not a single bad episode, and even the movie was perfect. Funny that you should mention the borefest called Dollhouse. If you compare it to Firefly, Dollhouse had a terrible first season, very slow stuff, no plot development to keep you hooked, boring sets, it had nothing. The whole concept of the show worked out as boring as it sounded on paper. That show had not a single good episode, yet it got another season, whereas Firefly had an exciting concept, a great cast and excellent writing with some of the best Whedon humor yet. In short, lots of things to keep you hooked and craving more.

The second season of Dollhouse only proved how right they were to cancel it. Firefly got a movie that proved they were wrong to cancel it.

I also really liked TSSC, but I can see why they cancelled it: because the whole concept would have gotten too expensive to keep portraying believably for TV. As the plot furthered, more CGI would have been required. But you asked me, I'd pick Firefly any time of the day over TSSC.

If you like Garret Dillahunt, he also has two roles in the Law & Order franchise in which he performed exceptionally well: the L&O episode "Open Season", and the SVU episode "Hardwired".

In both of those episodes, he did a remarkably good job at creeping everyone out.

Going to go with TSCC. Regardless of which show was better, TSCC got cut at a serious wtf moment. Firefly died before it got started which is sad, but TSCC died just as shit was going down.

So yeah, TSCC gets my vote because it had a continuous narrative that got completely cut off. Firefly got cut before it had a continuous narrative that could really get its hooks in.

I just wish we could get some TSCC comics. Seriously, I need to know what happens.

 

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