Jimquisition: Limited Collector's Complete Edition

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Scrumpmonkey:
Firsly i would just like to say;

You should NEVER feel guilty for buying used, it is your RIGHT as a consumer.

I have to say that I don't really understand this argument.

It's also my right as a human being to seclude myself in my apartment, live in my own filth, and die at the age of 30 from a heart-attack caused by overwhelming obesity.

Does the fact that one has the right to do this mean that one shouldn't be embarrassed or feel guilty for leading such a life?

No, I'm not saying that these two things are exactly equivalent, but can you at least see where I'm coming from?

I'm not saying this because I think buying used is something to feel guilty about (not especially anyway), but rather because I see this argument that "If it's my right to do something then it's always perfectly acceptable to do it and there shouldn't be any negative consequences" so often.

And it's just so dumb.

Draxyle:
The next time EA wonders why they aren't getting CoD or Skyrim numbers, they can't look at the used market, they have to look at themselves.

Dude, you do realize it's Bethesda who makes, Skyrim, not EA, and they really have nothing to do with each other?

Jimothy Sterling:

TsunamiWombat:
Still don't know how to close out a bit eh Jim? You can't use the 'Family Guy Flop' forever.

I bet I can use it more times than you can complain about it though.

And this is why I like this guy ;)

Good show, made sense and all that. Though I'm pretty sure Bethesda usually releases the GotY edition a year or two after initial release, which doesn't bother me at all.

hehehe, well said Jim, well said.

pretty funny how all the publishers problems, are pretty much their fault, makes me kinda snicker really, they have things they can do to fix the problems but are to greedy to try them

all right, all right! "thank you". happy now?

nah, but on a serious note - well said. how come buying used is wrong nowadays? they got money for product you have, they shouldnt complain about what you do with it.

Although I agree with his stance on retailer exclusives and next week price drops I feel that the point about GotY editions is unfair and wide of the mark.
If a developer wants to put additional time into producing post release content, they have the right to charge for it (whether it is worth the asking price is another discussion) as long as it is seperate to the product you purchased (not locked on the original disk or download). If we start complaining that GotY editions are what we should have had to begin with then you might as well say that going to the cinema is a rip off as sooner or later the DVD/BluRay will come out with extra features, a directors cut, or both; all of which you didn't get in the price of your original ticket.
All of this will lead to an inevitable crash that all boom industries have when the few people in a position to make money try to milk it, but the industry needs that to come out stronger on the other side; hopefully with more power in the hands of developers and a market that is less saturated with mediocre content.

mronoc:

On the main point, I wonder why no developer has tried rolling the first-day-DLC-code idea into the season pass concept, and just include codes in new copies that would give early players access to future DLC. It would certainly make the $60 price tag a little easier to swallow.

It's a nice idea, but I don't see game companies wanting to commit to any amount of future DLC in case the game doesn't sell and the planned expansion gets the ax. Then there's technical issues depending on how DLC is acquired. I don't think you could put in a claim for an item not available at the time on PSN, and claim codes could just be resold putting them back at square one.

Totally agree on this one, Jim. Well said. Buying a game new for $60 plus $15-20 per DLC x 4, or just wait a year and buy the whole kit and kabootle for $30? Tough choice, really.

Whow. At first, I felt pretty guilty about not buying new games when the topic came up but after Jim explained everything it does make a lot of sense especially since I have a good example that goes with Jim's whole ideal about the publishers being at fault (sorry to say.)

Saints Row the Third, I really enjoy and love the game. However, the DLCs were released all at once which makes me ponder which ones to get. However, they have a DLC for 1,600 Microsoft points that enables all the other DLCs into it thus a new exclusive edition within the DLC. So I ask myself if I bought the other DLCs before this one, and then wanted that latest DLC, would that be a rip off? And the answer is yes, the way they did that sort of brushes me off the wrong way so I decided not to buy any DLCs for Saints Row.

Thank you Jim for caring about us. Please stay true to your word, you got some nice fans really taking in what you say so don't let yourself end up in the publisher's shoes or better yet all those who fall due to fame consuming their well being (this doesn't apply to everyone but I have seen it happen to many times.)

You've just convinced me to get AC: Revelations... Used!
I love the games but.. damn, you're right. Fucking publishers aren't in it for us, they're in it for all the money they can suck out of our wallets.

Thank you for being my friend, Jim :D

wait im confused, why was he so upset about enslaved being $60

nilus2k:
I always wonder about special editions. Are people really paying the ext 20 or 30 or 50 or 100 dollars to get the little bit of extra content or do they want the cheap gimmick crap that comes in those packs.

I mean does any really care about "Art books"?

as a 3d artist, yes. yes I do care about the art books.

Very nice video. The only game that I bought new this year that I didn't regret after afterwards due to a price cut/DLC/GOTY Editions is inFamous 2. Seriously, Sucker Punch do not get as much credit as they deserve. I mean even Portal 2 dropped in price within months of its release (and went on sale for 75% off during the holidays).

Thanks, Jim! This episode is just what I watch your show for: some humor, some insightful thoughts on the video game industry and a thorough debunking of some of the industry's more insane beliefs about its customer base.

If I ever complain about your show, it's not about episodes like this. This is the good stuff.

I can't help feeling like I'm a bit unusual in my game buying habits in recent years. I never buy games used, but yet I always get them at like 30% of the launch price a year or so after they came out. For Borderlands and AC2 this meant getting GOTY editions for piss cheap. For Crackdown 2, Burnout Paradise and Brutal Legend, this meant paying like $15 NZD for sealed copies of a game.

I think I'm winning. They can keep doing this if they want. I'll keep buying my new copies of 1-2 year old games.

Couldn't agree more. for an upcoming game (Final Fantasy XIII-2), Gamestop has an exclusive weapon and costume, Best Buy has a book that takes place between FFXIII and FFXIII-2, Amazon.com has an extra boss character/dungeon. Where did I pre-order? Toys R Us. Why? because they were doing a 1 week pre-order promotion that had the game for $45 AND free shipping.

Then there are some bonuses that just make sense: Skyward Sword bonus editions were $20 more, but came with a special printed controller. Why is that okay? because regular controllers of that type retail at $40. And they aren't the special edition Zelda Wii Remote.

Yet again Jim scoops out my minds ramblings spit-shines it and throws it back into my desperate greedy face.

Scrustle:
Also, as just a random addition, when I bought Enslaved new myself it was pretty soon after release, but it was only like 15. I also bought it as a new sealed copy which was just lying in a cheapo bin. There were used versions of the game on the shelf which were priced higher! I was pretty chuffed with that. Good game.

And why the hell are they re-releasing Homefront? What for? Who the hell would buy it?

I also bought Enslaved new for cheap. $20 CDN, which is all it's really worth, imo. Unfortunately despite the fact that the game looks great and has a really nice story, the gameplay is so lame. Combat is dead easy and that fact that you literally can't fall off a ledge and the game points out where to go with glowing platform markers is a joke.

I actually haven't started it up again for two reasons, after not getting very far. #1 is that I got to the first boss fight, but unfortunately for me with my level ups I didn't level up my shields/defense. I leveled up something else. Little did I know that I would be stuck at a boss that one hit kills me because I didn't upgrade the right stats. That is bad game design. #2, my PS3 phat died so now I've got a slim and any game that I want to continue I'll actually have to start over on. Boourns.

Satosuke:
So what if a special edition or 'game of the year' edition of a game is released a good chunk of time after the game's initial launch, with all the DLC included? That's a great way to get new players interested. And no, you're not stupid for buying the game when it's first released; all that means is you wanted to play the game now instead of later. And to be honest, unless it's a game-changing piece of DLC, I don't really give a fuck if there's retailer-exclusives offered at launch. If it doesn't effect the game, why would you care?

But when gamers know that they can wait and six months down the road the special edition with all the DLC will be released for the same price or less than the regular edition, it doesn't encourage them to buy the first release.

Lots of people want the DLC, even if it doesn't change the game. That's not the point. The point is that people want the entire game and they don't want to have to buy the base game for full price, then shell out for all the DLC and then see a GOTY edition released with all that DLC for free.

Jim spouted a lot more DERP than he normally does this week.

Nice Video Jim, i had no idea Gamestop was surviving on pre-sales.

I can see now yet another albeit sinister reason why publishers are trying to promote digital downloads and take the retailer out of the equation.

I also bought Deus Ex for 17.89 euros the other week, and that game isnt out very long at all at all.

If I were to ever make a game, I'd make sure the online pass included in the new game would be replaced with the so called "complete edition". Though, maybe for an added price.

bringer of illumination:

Scrumpmonkey:
Firsly i would just like to say;

You should NEVER feel guilty for buying used, it is your RIGHT as a consumer.

I have to say that I don't really understand this argument.

It's also my right as a human being to seclude myself in my apartment, live in my own filth, and die at the age of 30 from a heart-attack caused by overwhelming obesity.

Does the fact that one has the right to do this mean that one shouldn't be embarrassed or feel guilty for leading such a life?

No, I'm not saying that these two things are exactly equivalent, but can you at least see where I'm coming from?

I'm not saying this because I think buying used is something to feel guilty about (not especially anyway), but rather because I see this argument that "If it's my right to do something then it's always perfectly acceptable to do it and there shouldn't be any negative consequences" so often.

And it's just so dumb.

That's a false analogy. There's no comparison to a style of life that may or may not be rooted in mental illness and a consumer's right to a) sell their legally purchased goods to a store or other person and b) for those same consumers to purchase used items from a person or store.

Most western and developed countries have a first sale doctrine that allows just this.

I don't see where you are coming from. Part of capitalism and the idea of a free market is that goods and services are priced at what the market will bear. If a substantial amount of customers aren't willing to pay $60 for a game, that should be telling publishers something. That enough are doesn't mean it's "right" or "correct" or that someone should be embarrassed for buying used.

When I buy used games it's for a variety of reasons. Sometimes it's because I'm not feeling especially flush but I want something new to play. Sometimes it's because I don't believe a given game is worth $60. Sometimes it's because no matter what, I don't think that $60 is a reasonable price for a video game. I don't feel embarrassed or guilty about any of those positions and no one should. If game publishers want to have me pay $60 for a game, they better give me a product that I feel is worth it. With most video games, I don't consider them to be worth it, despite all the hard work put in by the developer. That hard work is often sabotaged by bugs, poor gameplay, shoddy product or shenanigans by the publisher. Hard work doesn't automatically equal awesome game. People can put just as much time and effort into a shitty game as a good game.

Whether or not it's your aim, you're equating used sales with living in squalor. You're trying to shame us for not bowing down to an industry that seems more interested in squeezing as much money out of it's customer base as possible instead of giving us the best games possible.

I also hate to trot out the old stock argument, but I will anyway. No one complains about used books sales, and for good reason. Nor does anyone feel bad about buying used books. So why do games get special consideration? I don't understand that attitude, nor do I understand people who defend the publishers and all their dirty tricks.

bringer of illumination:

Scrumpmonkey:
Firsly i would just like to say;

You should NEVER feel guilty for buying used, it is your RIGHT as a consumer.

I have to say that I don't really understand this argument.

*A whole load of derp*

No. You don't grasp the argument. At all.

JaceArveduin:

Draxyle:
The next time EA wonders why they aren't getting CoD or Skyrim numbers, they can't look at the used market, they have to look at themselves.

Dude, you do realize it's Bethesda who makes, Skyrim, not EA, and they really have nothing to do with each other?

Yes, he does realise that. He's saying that EA's newest game, compared to overnight successes like Call of Duty or Skyrim, published by their competitors, won't sell as well and they won't use the time for introspection.

I have lots of money for my age 40.00 isn't alot of money, I don't mind paying an extra 20 for an art book, lore journal or a shiny box just so I can act like a rich condesending bastard around my umemployed friends.

leet_x1337:

JaceArveduin:

Draxyle:
The next time EA wonders why they aren't getting CoD or Skyrim numbers, they can't look at the used market, they have to look at themselves.

Dude, you do realize it's Bethesda who makes, Skyrim, not EA, and they really have nothing to do with each other?

Yes, he does realise that. He's saying that EA's newest game, compared to overnight successes like Call of Duty or Skyrim, published by their competitors, won't sell as well and they won't use the time for introspection.

Ah, okay, wording wasn't clear, at least the way I read it.

"They're not victims. They're not your friends. And they are certainly not on your side." I'll be quoting this a lot when people cry that I'm hurting Bioware when I refuse to buy EA games just because they're EA games.

If there's one thing I fucking HATE it's pre-order or collector's editions of a game which try and incentivise you by offering unique, one-time only bonus content which actually affects gameplay, ESPECIALLY in multiplayer-focussed games. As a result people who DO buy or preorder this crap will have a permanent and tangible edge, even if only a minor one, over people who don't. It feels like it isn't really intended to reward the people who do buy this stuff so much as it is to punish the ones who don't, to try and "scare" you into forking out extra (or early) if you want to be truly competative. It's not just unfair business practice, it's poor game design.

I recently got Fallout New Vegas and 'all' the DLC for around 35$. Steam makes it too easy.

Thanks Jim for talking to us, instead of going out and saving baby seals!

Have a cookie
image

I get the impression Jim is talking to himself in these videos. Desperately.

Very insightful. Thanks, Jim.

I've been looking at pre-ordering Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning (based on how much I enjoy the demo when it is released). A lot of the time I order from Amazon, the only time I don't is when they don't have it in stock or I can get it A LOT cheaper.

On amazon its 40.00 to pre-order, and on Game its 40.00 but you get '9 Exclusive weapons when you pre-order from Game'. My initial thought was 'I might aswell buy from Game, same price but extra content'. Then I realised I'm not supporting that because everyone deserves to have the 'super awesome mega cool' weapons which probably make no difference regardless of where they bought it from.

If I like the Demo, Amazon is having my money

chimpzy:
Luckily the whole store exclusive DLC thing doesn't exist where I live (or not that I know off, at least). Don't know why, probably has something to do with European trade laws. Here, you can usually buy or download it separately from the game on PSN/Xbox Live. Sometimes retail versions include a voucher for it.

Then you're probably living in some sort of alternate bizarro Europe, because I distinctly remember getting a store-specific (in this case amazon.co.uk) DLC with my copy of New Vegas (the horrible Tribal pack).

Anyway, my opinion is that GOTY editions are fine, whereas day-one-DLC and so-called "Deluxe Editions" (I'm looking at you, Deus Ex: Human Revolution) do represent a problem.

Yeah, video games do get price drops after a few months, but I fail to see how that is different from the way hardware drops in price over time (especially for PC gamers).

Thank you Jim and even if nobody listens to you at least after everything goes to shit people like me can point to your videos and say "Look! You fucking twats! He's been warning you all along and you didn't listen...YOU DIDN'T LISTEN!!!"

Satosuke:
So what if a special edition or 'game of the year' edition of a game is released a good chunk of time after the game's initial launch, with all the DLC included? That's a great way to get new players interested. And no, you're not stupid for buying the game when it's first released; all that means is you wanted to play the game now instead of later. And to be honest, unless it's a game-changing piece of DLC, I don't really give a fuck if there's retailer-exclusives offered at launch. If it doesn't effect the game, why would you care?

Jim spouted a lot more DERP than he normally does this week.

That's what I was thinking. I mean the Oblivion Game of the Year Edition came out years after the actual game with all the DLC. Paying for it before that was basically paying for early access, it's not like the GOTY had more stuff or anything.

And why complain about stuff dropping in price? EVERYTHING drops in price after awhile (except necessities like food of course). Computer parts, phones, games, movies, music, cars, hell even hookers lower their price as they get older :P

Despite being really excited for the game, I didn't buy L.A. Noire when it came out, because I knew they would eventually release some sort of Complete Edition.

I didn't buy Marvel vs. Capcom 3 because I was gonna wait until they (potentially) made Phoenix Wright as DLC. Then they went and released a whole new game for it, and I'm REALLY glad I didn't buy the regular one (although that's a game I am gonna buy used because I'm pissed at Capcom)

And I didn't buy Skyrim because I know they're gonna be trotting out a game of the year edition sometime this year.

Thank you Jim, for making this episode to remind me that these sort of actions are ok, and it doesn't make me some sort of "non-true gamer" for following them.

You and I may not always agree, but good for you for trying to get things done. Thanks a lot.

EDIT: To the people who are saying "well everything drops in price" not really. Big games that continue to sell well without dropping in price still exist. Pokemon Heart and Soul are still $35 and they came out about 2 years ago and people still buy them. That's pretty good compared to a sixty dollar game dropping to 20 in only a couple months.

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