Star Wars: The Old Republic Review

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"Visit planets in a specific order"? Thank fuck for that! My problem with RPGs is that I always explore too much and get tied down in too many quests and storylines out of order. I've had to restart Dragon Age Origins ans Skyrim because I got roped into quests I wasn't ready for. I think can forgive rail shooter space battles as long I got to zap rancors with lightning

Haakong:
Dunno if its just bad editing in the video, but werent all the areas just corridors with different color?

Ive been sceptical but hopeful towards this game, but sadly it just looks like your average MMO. Adding dialogue and story seems to make leveling much more bearable., but what about the end game content? As far as Ive heard, its pretty bad.

Might buy it when the price drops, and play it the one free month.

Just to let you know, you can only activate that 1 free month if you add a game time card or credit card subscription.

Although many just added a credit card and removed it after.

Karathos:
snipety snip

For me, youre adressing the major issue with all new MMOs: They havent existed for 7 years, like WoW. They never get time to remove bugs, balance and add content before the playerbase diminish. WoW got lucky with no real contestants at its release, giving it much needed time to get fixed before the other MMOs were released. That way, WoW seemed superior, and it still generally is.

Would say MMO is a dying genre. Theres little room for creativity considering the constraints made by the technology involved, and instead of calling every MMO "WoW-Clone" we should all just conclude all MMOs are pretty much the same.

Frankster:

A draw would have been nice, if there is any sith empire that deserved to know victory over the republic for once in galactic history it would have been this one.

But "light" side must always prevail in star wars it seems, as annoying as it is (especially when light side in question is light only in name).

As for the KOTOR 2 retcon, just...Eugh. But my initial rage was little compared to

I hardly think it's needed. It was noticed everywherem to the point where posting something about it in the SWTOR forums would led to it being deleted. Everyone whos been following, even the blindest fanboy, knows what happen with revan in SWTOR.

You know he actually vanishes in a flash of light, right? If you look at the fight on youtube or something, he goes into a protective bubble (rather Paladin-style now that I think about it) and becomes immune to damage. After a few seconds he vanishes in a flash, and there's no body (or parts of it) anywhere.

Sure, he might be dead. I actually hope he is, because I'll be the first in the queue to join the TOR-haters club if they pull that Kael'thas "THE <Location> WAS MERELY A SETBACK!" bullshit and have Revan suddenly come back.

But right now, his status is unknown, technically :P

Senarrius:

Haakong:
Dunno if its just bad editing in the video, but werent all the areas just corridors with different color?

Ive been sceptical but hopeful towards this game, but sadly it just looks like your average MMO. Adding dialogue and story seems to make leveling much more bearable., but what about the end game content? As far as Ive heard, its pretty bad.

Might buy it when the price drops, and play it the one free month.

Just to let you know, you can only activate that 1 free month if you add a game time card or credit card subscription.

Although many just added a credit card and removed it after.

Just add and cancel, yeah. Will probably work.

I'll have to disagree on the idea that any choice a player makes in this game will ever have a drastic effect on them. And you know why?

Ultimately, it can't, plain and simple. Those major moments you see at the end of the game, those are the raids in an MMO. And if there is one thing you can't do, it's tailor-make a raid setting for each individual player. Player A left Super-guy alive so SG aids him, but since Player B-D didn't he can't aid them. B and D though grabbed Crystal-steroids to give to an NPC at the end of raid, but since A and C didn't the NPC can't help them.

In a single-player RPG, choices will have an effect.
In an MMO though, at best you get a cosmetic difference with the illusion of difference. Specially when you focus so much on the "personal story".

Which proves itself when, if what I read in the above posts is true, only ONE side gets an ending, the other gets the boot. Real nice, seeing that ultimately Bioware can't just avoid the "Good always win, bad guys lose!" trope. At least World of Warcraft has had the decency to give both sides equal survival time.

Looks like the new content patch 1.1 they've been anouncing and showing trailers for has been delayed.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=186975

I've been playing since Early Game Access and have been having a blast. I even rolled my second character due to getting my Legacy some time ago

Agente L:

Frankster:

A draw would have been nice, if there is any sith empire that deserved to know victory over the republic for once in galactic history it would have been this one.

But "light" side must always prevail in star wars it seems, as annoying as it is (especially when light side in question is light only in name).

As for the KOTOR 2 retcon, just...Eugh. But my initial rage was little compared to

I hardly think it's needed. It was noticed everywherem to the point where posting something about it in the SWTOR forums would led to it being deleted. Everyone whos been following, even the blindest fanboy, knows what happen with revan in SWTOR.

Actually no I didn't see it, nor was I aware he was even in the game.
Thanks for that.
Seriously, put some thought into what you do before you do it. Maybe think that people who go to this site don't go to different sites, or that they've been specifically avoiding those sites as to not ruin the game for themselves by finding things out before they were supposed to.

Radoh:

Actually no I didn't see it, nor was I aware he was even in the game.
Thanks for that.
Seriously, put some thought into what you do before you do it. Maybe think that people who go to this site don't go to different sites, or that they've been specifically avoiding those sites as to not ruin the game for themselves by finding things out before they were supposed to.

Since you insist so much, I will put in quote.

But the only way to not get spoilers is not visiting any articles/topics/posts about a certain game before I finish it. And sincerely? Spoiling a MMO? Do you know how silly that sound?

Agente L:

Radoh:

Actually no I didn't see it, nor was I aware he was even in the game.
Thanks for that.
Seriously, put some thought into what you do before you do it. Maybe think that people who go to this site don't go to different sites, or that they've been specifically avoiding those sites as to not ruin the game for themselves by finding things out before they were supposed to.

Since you insist so much, I will put in quote.

But the only way to not get spoilers is not visiting any articles/topics/posts about a certain game before I finish it. And sincerely? Spoiling a MMO? Do you know how silly that sound?

I'd say about as silly as ignoring the fact that there is actual story to be had in this MMO.
Else you wouldn't have spoiled anything.
Because without stories there are no spoilers.
Seriously, what the heck.

Steve Butts:
Star Wars: The Old Republic Review

BioWare finally delivers an MMORPG that feels like an RPG.

Read Full Article

I keep hearing reviewers say the same things about the game, and there is still one question left completely unanswered by any reviewer that I've read/heard:

I understand it presents a very engaging story. This is a Bioware staple. And I agree that the gameplay, while pretty standard, was comfortable and generally good (aside from the tragedy that is space combat). And I understand that this game, taken as it is now, can accurately be described as "good."

But can it be described as "Pay Monthly" Good?

I find that this question hasn't been addressed directly by any reviewer. And for your normal single-serving game, it's not relevant. But for MMOs, that question is essential. Otherwise, a review could be seen as a recommendation for a game that is basically a 30-day rental at full purchase price.

My feeling? No, not worth a subscription. It feels like a very good BioWare single-player game. But the word certainly doesn't feel massive (and I'm still bothered by how many times I saw the same companions). It feels like a single-player game that BioWare is expecting people to pay for more than once.

Radoh:

Agente L:

Radoh:

Actually no I didn't see it, nor was I aware he was even in the game.
Thanks for that.
Seriously, put some thought into what you do before you do it. Maybe think that people who go to this site don't go to different sites, or that they've been specifically avoiding those sites as to not ruin the game for themselves by finding things out before they were supposed to.

Since you insist so much, I will put in quote.

But the only way to not get spoilers is not visiting any articles/topics/posts about a certain game before I finish it. And sincerely? Spoiling a MMO? Do you know how silly that sound?

I'd say about as silly as ignoring the fact that there is actual story to be had in this MMO.
Else you wouldn't have spoiled anything.
Because without stories there are no spoilers.
Seriously, what the heck.

"Tor have actual story"

Don't use that lame excuse on me, I don't buy it. ALL MMOs ALWAYS had story. And some have really fleshed out stories. The difference is that, in SWTOR, the story is sold as one of the "mainpoints" of the game, and it's apresented in a different, maybe even more pleasant way. But it still shoved down your throat.

RIFT has story, WAR has story, WoW has story. The difference is that in other RPGs you simply click "accept quest" instead of going a conversation to click "accept quest". In WoW you can ignore the story completely by just pressing "accept quest" whenever a pop up comes up. But you can read them, learn the lore of the area, read the HUGE amount of books that are all over azeroth. It may not be a shakespearean-worth play, but it's there. And it's good.

wait wait wait, you're criticizing the spaceship fighting segments for not being engaging for the player? that's like saying the awesome tie fighter fight in episode 4 ("that's great kid, don't get cocky!" that one) was distracting/confused the audience and didn't move the plot along.

i'm glad to hear nice things about the rest of the game, makes me more inclined to get it, but i think the idea of getting to do rail shooter fighter segments is pretty cool, it'd be just like in the original movies. it's not supposed to be story oriented, the reason you're in space and shooting things is probably because of a quest that sent you there in the first place so the need for a story here isn't necessary. on top of that, i'd be having way more fun shooting stuff in a dog fight with my buddies online that if there was a story going on, i'd probably miss it.

Agente L:

Radoh:

Agente L:

Since you insist so much, I will put in quote.

But the only way to not get spoilers is not visiting any articles/topics/posts about a certain game before I finish it. And sincerely? Spoiling a MMO? Do you know how silly that sound?

I'd say about as silly as ignoring the fact that there is actual story to be had in this MMO.
Else you wouldn't have spoiled anything.
Because without stories there are no spoilers.
Seriously, what the heck.

"Tor have actual story"

Don't use that lame excuse on me, I don't buy it. ALL MMOs ALWAYS had story. And some have really fleshed out stories. The difference is that, in SWTOR, the story is sold as one of the "mainpoints" of the game, and it's apresented in a different, maybe even more pleasant way. But it still shoved down your throat.

RIFT has story, WAR has story, WoW has story. The difference is that in other RPGs you simply click "accept quest" instead of going a conversation to click "accept quest". In WoW you can ignore the story completely by just pressing "accept quest" whenever a pop up comes up. But you can read them, learn the lore of the area, read the HUGE amount of books that are all over azeroth. It may not be a shakespearean-worth play, but it's there. And it's good.

So... why did you question me saying that you spoiled something then? I don't know if it's the language barrier or not, but it sounds like you are straight up saying that TOR has story which kinda kneecaps your original assertion about me being silly.
Honestly, what? I'm a level Thirty something Republic player, and today is the first time I heard anything about The Foundry since The Empire and The Republic are completely separate story affairs.

Zhukov:
I am tempted. So very, very tempted.

I like Bioware. I like the idea of a MMO that is, well... less MMO.

However, I do not like Star Wars (every time someone says "may the force be with you" my eyes want to roll clean out of their sockets) and I'm still not down with the whole subscription thing.

I would highly suggest at least trying it. I played WoW since release and this game feels significantly different than just the button mash fest that wow was.

Not to mention that the legacy system has the potential for awesome. Basically once you get to a certain level, you choose a surname that carries over to all your alts. So you can make full names for your character that you normally wouldn't fit in the initial name creation. For example, I'm an Imperial Sniper named Leeharvey Oswald. No joke.

OT: I agree with just about everything Steve said. By far I have to say that the worst part of Swtor is the space missions. On rails and auto aim make it dreadfully boring and I haven't done it in weeks.

Radoh:
So... why did you question me saying that you spoiled something then? I don't know if it's the language barrier or not, but it sounds like you are straight up saying that TOR has story which kinda kneecaps your original assertion about me being silly.
Honestly, what? I'm a level Thirty something Republic player, and today is the first time I heard anything about The Foundry since The Empire and The Republic are completely separate story affairs.

Just having a story does not make it suffer from "spoilers". What can you spoiler in a mmo game? Which item drops from who? Arthas dies in the end of WotLK? Fandral went insane and gone corrupt, joining Twilight Cult? MMOs are open ended, they don't have a official "line" to follow. You can very much learns that Super Super Master Sergeant Killer Person dies before knowing his advisor Super Super Specialist Person betrayed him.

Killing or not killing him does not make a difference in the end of the game. What truly happens, happens in Revan Novel.

Agente L:

Radoh:
So... why did you question me saying that you spoiled something then? I don't know if it's the language barrier or not, but it sounds like you are straight up saying that TOR has story which kinda kneecaps your original assertion about me being silly.
Honestly, what? I'm a level Thirty something Republic player, and today is the first time I heard anything about The Foundry since The Empire and The Republic are completely separate story affairs.

Just having a story does not make it suffer from "spoilers". What can you spoiler in a mmo game? Which item drops from who? Arthas dies in the end of WotLK? Fandral went insane and gone corrupt, joining Twilight Cult? MMOs are open ended, they don't have a official "line" to follow. You can very much learns that Super Super Master Sergeant Killer Person dies before knowing his advisor Super Super Specialist Person betrayed him.

Killing or not killing him does not make a difference in the end of the game. What truly happens, happens in Revan Novel.

'Cept that all of those are plot points.

Which item drops from who?

This being another confusing point you throw out there. That's a game mechanic, not a story point.
It wouldn't be a spoiler if I said Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3 was a shooter, but it would be if I said this or that character bites the bullet by the end. Relevance to in-game points is moot when it has far-reaching in the franchise universe.

CountChopula:
I come back to my earlier point that it's greatest asset is also it's weakness. The extremely great but extremely limiting and narrow story line. Bioware does a great job at making a single player RPG, because it has a lot of experience with great storylines, but it's multiplayer it's lack luster. My character didn't have options. Outside aesthetic options that are ultimately mechanical (such as light/dark side) I still had to follow lock step with the rest of the player base throught the same exact corridors, same exact missions and quests, and the same exact planets. Like a massive narrow corridor with small rooms here and there, that is what SWTOR is.

For those of you that love Star Wars and want to experience a great RPG that you can, if you wish, sometimes, share with your friends or other people, SWTOR is great. However if you want a world you can live in, a world that you know is affected by you, a world where you can really explore, SWTOR is lack luster in that regard.

If one was to put this on a scale of Theme Park MMORPGs (-10 to 0) and Full Sandbox MMORPG (0-10) this would be a solid -7 on that scale.

Great SOLO Friendly MMO. Doubt many will stick around after they max out a few toons.

Sorry, but WHAT? Aside of maybe Ultima Online (which had player housing and you could put objects around the world e.g. decorate those houses/castles or even do a "market day" with benches and tables and tablecloth and wares and a sign and whatnot and lots of other stuff) and very very few other MMOs I don't know very many in which you can "interact" with the world in any greater deal than you can in SWTOR. It doesn't really matter if your character has been anywhere or not and most worlds are entirely static even if they are bigger than SWTOR.

Now SWTOR at least gives you the opportunity of full voice-acting and characterization of every single character you meet and a personal story different between every character (and yet again different in more ways than you think based on the choices you make, for instance look at this: http://kotaku.com/5872687/its-not-star-wars-without-slavery-torture-and-forced-voyeurism ).

I first learned of Vette's sad habit of being regularly tortured into submission during my time with my first Sith Warrior character in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Following my own natural tendencies it never occurred to me to deliver punishment unto this perky, spirited alien. She seemed like the sort of person it would be nice to have at my side; that I could coerce her to do so never registered as an option for me.

Then I made it to Dromund Kaas, the capital of the Sith Empire, where all post level 10 characters on the Empire's side travel to continue their progression. General chat would regularly be filled with other Sith Warriors discussing how poorly they treated Vette. They boasted of her low opinion of them, negative numbers on the game's companion friendship scale.

I checked my own; it was more than a positive 1,000.

It was too late for me to begin a course of Vette abuse. The shock collar had come off upon her first request. Instead, I made another Sith Warrior, and he showed me just how dark the Dark Side can be.

Now that may be just me but I HEAVILY prefer this to the pointless/inane quests in most other MMOs that pop up a text window and tell you to kill "X number of Y" and you sometimes even learn to ignore and just do what it says on the quest radar, because ultimately it becomes rather pointless. I much prefer a somewhat narrow storyline over none at all or the illusion of some sort of storyline...

Not to say that if one wanted to, one could make 2 characters on the same starting planet and group up well into the end game content all the while playing together and taking a part in each other's storyline.

I'm sorry Steve,
I really do respect your opinion as a reviewer,
but i feel that a review of Swtor can only be complete after reaching end game on a few characters and i honestly feel that once you do,you will like myself be massively(multiplayer:)disappointed,
this is how badly i was let down by Swtor,I played through the full time beta,quite diligently reporting bugs as I went,bough the Digital deluxe edition(a huge letdown in itself as the "deluxe" extra's were laughable) got into the early release program,played like mad for a few more weeks then just...ran out of steam...at first i figured it was my own fault for overplaying it,but even after taking breaks and going back the huge design faults hidden beneath the shiny star wars exterior became ever more glaring...
In short,in no particular order,
No endgame,no reason to group,dreadful PvP(not that pvp is ever my main focus but needs to be mentioned)Loadscreens,loadscreens LOADSCREENS a good example is heading from a non core world to the GTN to put some stuff up for auction,then back...thats EIGHT loadscreens!,worst Auction house ive ever seen in a mmorpg(seriously this will kill the game,well this and a few other choice "features")the absolute WORST UI,I mean really,its diabolically bad immovable,unresizable,unmoddable,terrible.lousy 8 year old graphics that still conspire to suck the life out of even a quite ballsy gaming rig...gawd you know what? there are many more reasons,but I've had the life sucked out of me like the attack of the vampire whores talking about this game lately,I just cant do it any more!....but I think you get my drift.

Dastardly:
But can it be described as "Pay Monthly" Good?

I find that this question hasn't been addressed directly by any reviewer. And for your normal single-serving game, it's not relevant. But for MMOs, that question is essential. Otherwise, a review could be seen as a recommendation for a game that is basically a 30-day rental at full purchase price.

My feeling? No, not worth a subscription. It feels like a very good BioWare single-player game. But the word certainly doesn't feel massive (and I'm still bothered by how many times I saw the same companions). It feels like a single-player game that BioWare is expecting people to pay for more than once.

I know I personally argued the same point before with other MMOs, maybe mainly because I'm usually "done" with a game after a certain time and usually MMOs aren't very varied and feel like you're just grinding to get to the end and to the "real game" and see if that's fun, but somehow I feel differently about SWTOR, likely because I feel that for once the game actually is the "content" that is worth playing for and experiencing. I haven't had much time to play and only got my Bounter Hunter into the late 30s (and had two other Beta chars), but I certainly will continue playing for a few months and after finishing my Bounty Hunter I'll start over with a Jedi Knight and after that either an Imperial Agent, Trooper or Sith Inquisitor...

The thing is, MMOs can last hundreds upon hundreds of hours, and (especially in one where you can pick 8 entirely different classes with their own story and experience) it's rather hard to test it all, and it's even harder to say how much a person would enjoy the one or the other or if one would continue after a while.

I think it's fair in this case to treat it more like a Single Player game (which also cost around 60$/€ at launch or whatever it costs now) and comment upon if the month you get out of it is enjoyable or not, everyone else can probably decide by themself if they want to continue after that or stop.

Jesus, an MMORPG that actually makes story and your character's PERSONALITY and the MORAL WEIGHT OF YOUR ACTIONS as important as silly little things like your character's level and equipment, that's fixing what has been the problem in MMORPGs since their beginning and kept them little more than a graphical MUD without any MUSH/MUCK influence making them an actual role playing game. You can always join a roleplayers guild, but roleplaying still holds no weight on the game mechanics. People complain that most jRPGs don't give you enough choices, but at least in jRPGs your character has a personality without you only pretending they do.

I'm not really a bit fan of Bioware's or Arenanet's character designs, and prefer the character designs of Asian MMORPGs. But my goodness, these two companies know how to innovate right now. I hope that they set trends in the industry that infest Korea, Japan, and China's development decisions.

I wasn't excited at all for this game in terms of MMORPGS before when people were talking about it. After being disappointed in Final Fantasy XIV and Tera looking like every other MMORPG with the exception of an Action combat mechanic and a strip joint aesthetic, new MMORPGs weren't looking exciting. But now, I think I'm on board a little bit. If only I was more fond of Bioware's aesthetics.

Shoggoth2588:

Soviet Heavy:
I'm still on the fence. After what Drew Karpyshyn managed to do to Revan, I don't know if I want to mix Bioware with Star Wars anymore.

So...the book is a no-go then?

---

I'm passing on this one. My PC barely manages flash games at this point and I've never been a fan of the MMO. I think I can also say I'm passing this by to boycott EA and Origin but that would be a lie since I don't really care about either...well, Origin anyway.

The book crosses a threshold even the game doesn't quite manage into offensively misogynistic.

Erm no. I disagree.

SWTOR seriously is WoW with a story attached for 1-50. Everything else is exactly a carbon copy of WoW, and not just good things from WoW, really bad things.

Play the classes to 50 and then quit, there's nothing else innovative or enticing about SWTOR after that, you're essentially just playing WoW in a different format. A grindfest that is made to waste your time.

Also the cop-out argument that BW make that they didn't want to "reinvent" the genre is bs, they clearly made this game with the intent of slapping the KOTOR and Star Wars brands onto WoW to make a lot of money. Hopefully people see through it after a few months.

edit: People also need to stop praising the "moral" system, it's awful, just like they are in all BW games. BW cannot design a moral system that is not black and white, it just feels wrong, it doesn't feel how you'd really react in a situation, even if you're evil or pure or whatever. The lack of shades of gray hurts the game.

Sixcess:
and it pains me when people repeat Bioware's unjustified claim that it's the first MMO with a story that matters.

I keep wondering what MMO actually should get to lay claim to that. Granted, my first real MMO was Guild Wars, but it's storyline was fairly coherent and prominent. I'm wondering if I'm forgetting a game before that.

That was an excellent review. I have been playing The Old Republic since early access began and I am loving it. I am loving the class stories for the Sith Inquisitor and the Jedi Consular. I plan on making a Smuggler pretty soon.

Zing:
Erm no. I disagree.

SWTOR seriously is WoW with a story attached for 1-50. Everything else is exactly a carbon copy of WoW, and not just good things from WoW, really bad things.

Play the classes to 50 and then quit, there's nothing else innovative or enticing about SWTOR after that, you're essentially just playing WoW in a different format. A grindfest that is made to waste your time.

Also the cop-out argument that BW make that they didn't want to "reinvent" the genre is bs, they clearly made this game with the intent of slapping the KOTOR and Star Wars brands onto WoW to make a lot of money. Hopefully people see through it after a few months.

edit: People also need to stop praising the "moral" system, it's awful, just like they are in all BW games. BW cannot design a moral system that is not black and white, it just feels wrong, it doesn't feel how you'd really react in a situation, even if you're evil or pure or whatever. The lack of shades of gray hurts the game.

I cannot agree more. Honestly, underneath the graphics and title, it really is just another shade of WoW. Which, to be fair, isn't the worst thing, but the lack of any innovation is disappointing. It's going to make money and have subscribers because of the Star Wars brand, but honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it does go the way of Rift and be a distinctly more empty than not game a few months down the line.

Personally, my biggest issue with the game is actually the graphics. I'm enjoying the storyline, more or less, though as the person I quoted stated, I don't really like the having to choose to be plain out evil vs saintly. I'd love to play a Smuggler who's greedy but only up to a point, and while I could theoretically make choices on both sides, from what I've seen you really need to go towards one end of the spectrum or the other.

Errr, but back to the original point, I'm rather disappointed in the graphics. The backgrounds can be nice sometimes, but frankly it feel like I'm playing City of Heroes, which was nice, yanno, 7 years ago. Don't even get me started on the jumping animation, that just makes me want to vomit.

I think the only way I'll keep on playing past the first 30 days is I still have nothing else to do after it.

My opinion aside, I find it odd that so many people are offering their opinion on the game while also admitting to either never having played it, or having only played it for a limited time.

Bias and conjecture are things we should try and avoid.

Grey Day for Elcia:
My opinion aside, I find it odd that so many people are offering their opinion on the game while also admitting to either never having played it, or having only played it for a limited time.

Bias and conjecture are things we should try and avoid.

Honestly? I played it. There were a lot of things I didn't like that I could itemize and report, but quite frankly, the game didn't work for me. Should I have forced myself to log another 20 hours or forced myself to get to level 50 so that I could turn around and tell you, that this is still my opinion?

If I tell you I think the game plays like WoW, that is conjecture, because I never played wow. If someone who has a level 80 Paladin tells you TOR plays like WoW, even though they never got past level 20 in TOR, that's not conjecture.

As to bias? You can't get rid of it completely, I'm not going to lash the game for it's story, I didn't see enough of it to know for certain that it doesn't get better, but goddamn, what I saw was awful. Should I have staggered through the rest of the campaign, analyzing this dross in order to provide a more objective argument? Maybe, but honestly, I'm not getting paid for this, so why should I torture myself?

Self Selection: If someone doesn't like the game, they're (usually) not going to keep playing it. The thing that should worry you isn't the players who pick it up, and put it back down, it's the players who burned out less than a month after release, and put it down.

Spot1990:
And soon it shall begin. Flame Wars Episode One: The Dissenting Opinion.

Followed by Attack of the Trolls I presume.

I loved that review and i think he hit the high notes. I think if you just lose yourself into the story, it makes up for a lot of flaws.(Beside its better than what George Lucas has done with the story in recent years.

Starke:
@Starke

I find it disingenuous and deceptive to report on something you've not properly experienced and my comment was aimed towards people who have played so little of the game they still have yet to encounter core components or have simply not played it at all.

If you were to sit down with a ten hour game, play two hours of it and say "I found the controls and combat to sluggish, broken, unresponsive and boring" I'd think you'd seen enough of it to make that claim. When someone plays an MMO to level 9 and makes broad, sweeping comments concerning the entire game, not just the segment they experienced, I more or less consider their opinion moot. Not because of my own personal opinion, but because they are commenting on something they only know a fraction about.

Really, I simply wish people would stop trying so hard to be a fan or a hater. Sounds extreme, I know, but with just about every release you see and hear people complaining, critiquing, praising and defending games they've never played, out of pure principle. Bias is innate, like you said--you cannot ever review something objectively, as everything you see and hear is influenced by your personal experiences and view point--but to come to something or avoid something all together based on conjecture and with preconceptions and *still* offer an opinion is just... bad.

Skyrim is a similar case. I don't like it. However, I put in a dozen hours before forming an opinion. Take a quick peek over the forum and you'll find a multitude of people bashing or defending Skyrim despite admitting to never playing it or, at the most, having played it for an hour or so. If you play ten minutes of a game and find it ugly, boring or just uninteresting, feel free to say so. But don't make comments about more than you actually played yourself.

Bandwagons, haters, fanboys -- all words I thought overused. But you know what? They aren't. And that sucks.

I'm ranting, so I'll stop. I hope my opinion was well enough expressed and you can understand what I'm getting at. Peace :D

my problem with the review is that it doesn't say anything about the endgame. Because as many people already seem to suggest, it's hard to maintain story drive in the endgame.

If you devoted yourself to it and read all the text WoW had some reasonable story lines leading upto the endgame. They just where a little disjointed.

The endgame is where an MMO stands or falls. Thats where grinding becomes an issue (for the bigger crafts or getting into that next tier of raiding gear) I haven't grinded much in WoW leveling. Especially in the newest content where they steared away from samy kill x quests as much as possible. OK I stopped WoW but thats because all my friends stopped and my lack of time for raiding kept me in a loop of Heroic running that became a little to familiar. I could dream those encounters. And I fear TOR will have very similar end game problems.

What a new MMORPG should really adress is the problem of challenge. like in WoW where you had heroics, that was a good start, but what me and a couple of buddies really craved was a mode where you could really demand the max of yourself and you toon, without real extra reward but just a challenge to keep you interested. More HP on mobs more diverse attack paterns to force you to think on your feet in a way that can't be demanded from the real casual player. Would I know how exactly to do that, no but I'm not a game designer.

I guess I have to rely on Guild Wars 2 to save the MMO genre.

I have two major irks with this review. Firstly, the claim that this introduces "role playing" elements that other MMOs lack. Well that defends on how you define "role playing". Star Wars: The Old Republic gives you a story and a biography identical to thousands of others and gives you no control, whereas other MMOs let YOU define your character and give you more freedom (and no, by defining your character, I don't mean giving you a dialogue wheel and a morality bar, I mean letting you decide your character's motivations and your character's history that isn't from a selection of in game prompts.)

Secondly, the criticism of ToR's hotkey and abilities based gameplay because this is "MMO" gameplay. This is incorrect. It is "typical MMO gameplay" because that's how WoW did it and everybody wants to copy WoW, an apparent formula for success". It is possible to create a massively multiplayer game without this style of gameplay, as Guild Wars will hopefully show us.

I will be avoiding this game due to horror stories I've heard and my diminishing respect of Bioware and the Star Wars franchise.

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