Jimquisition: Piracy - Trying To Kill It Makes It Stronger

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Kwil:
You want to fight piracy? Here's a good way, tell everybody you know who's a pirate that they're a prick for forcing companies to put all this crap on their games to try to slow them down.

--

On the other hand, *we* can take steps toward stopping piracy and crappy products at the same time, simply by refusing to give pirates any succor or rationalization. You hear that somebody pirated a game, just go, "Man, that's not cool," and no matter what half-ass rationalization they give you, repeat, "Whatever, it's still a shitty thing to do."

Imagine you log onto a forum and the first thing to meet you is an internet tough guy frothing at the mouth and raging about how you are a stupid little corporate drone and the source of all problems in the western world and how you are the worst scum of humanity and don't deserve blablabla.

What would you think of that guy?

Odds are that you'll consider them a rude, moralizing asshole.

Incidentally, that is exactly what the pirates will think of you when you start preaching to them. And don't go blabbering on about you are 100% right and 100% wrong because morality is subjective and your opinion is still your opinion, no matter how hard you stick your fingers in your ear when the opposition talks and pretend they don't have arguments.

As an example as to how piracy is a service problem, look no further then KA2 which was released with a game crippling bug just a few days ago.

Neocore offers a patch at 15gb, to be downloaded exclusively from their official servers, which are, as of this typing, offline.
Pirates however, can acquire the same patch at a mere 50mb from their nearest seeder/ftp.

Imagine yourself in the place of somebody on the fence about the issue, what method would you chose to make your game playable?

Not G. Ivingname:

Jim Sterling:
Snip

In the near future, piracy is going to have something that is going to stop them in their tracks if the gaming industry accepts it, the cloud.

With Onlive proving at least the service can function, we can get any game we want INSTANTLY without downloading, installing, or anything else. Any kind of traditional torrent site just simply can't provide that amount of convience. As soon as the internet connection needed to run the service becomes common place, and they figure ways around the technical issues such as low frame rates and get the games multiplayer to work proper, and it becomes a subscription service like Netflix, why is their any reason to pirate games at all?

Cloud gaming is a ways off. There is simply not enough broadband to support the number of gamers there are. The infrastructure that is in place now is a huge hindrance. Also, combine that with the use of internet for a large portion of other activities that gamers do not even use it for, such as business. There is also the element where there exists a requirement for some sort of install base. It's like when the concept of Plug-n-play first came along. It's superb but true PnP will never be realized simply because it would require a universal driver that was capable of running everything. As it stands, it comes really close, but at the same time there is the need to install something locally to get it to work completely.

Kwil:
Generally agree, but you fail in the same way that most of these rants against "the man" fail.. you forget that the reason we're getting this crap DRM stuff imposed on us in the first place is because of the pirates.

That's why I get really annoyed whenever somebody gets up on their righteous horse and says, "It's the companies' fault!"

NO. IT. ISN'T.
It is, and will remain, the pirates fault. You want to fight piracy? Here's a good way, tell everybody you know who's a pirate that they're a prick for forcing companies to put all this crap on their games to try to slow them down.

There are ways to lessen piracy, yes. And yes, the companies can take steps toward it as Steam has done, but let's be honest, unless everybody released on Steam, your next rant would be about how it's so inconvenient to remember which service your game is signed up with and so people pirate because they don't want to be bothered going through any service.

On the other hand, *we* can take steps toward stopping piracy and crappy products at the same time, simply by refusing to give pirates any succor or rationalization. You hear that somebody pirated a game, just go, "Man, that's not cool," and no matter what half-ass rationalization they give you, repeat, "Whatever, it's still a shitty thing to do."

You fail to realize that software pirates need no rationalization from anyone, let alone honest paying customers. No one is rationalizing piracy by saying the companies are in the wrong. There are companies I just do not give any patronage to because of this. It is not the companies fault that people pirate their products. But it is the companies fault that they hinder people from using their products. It is not the pirates fault the company hurts their customers. Also, as we all know, no product seems safe piracy no matter how many layers of DRM or protection they put onto it. It only seems safe from the paying customers use. The piracy community will exist as it always has, but companies put so much effort into stopping them and none into paying homage to their honest customers, and that is the companies fault. So people will rationalize piracy, even if they don't agree with it because the companies rationalize the systematic destruction of consumer rights in the name of stopping piracy. And people like yourself will rationalize what the companies do. And we have come full circle.

getoffmycloud:
The simple reason they don't do more stuff like steam is look what happened with origin as soon as it was announced everyone came out and said they hated it and would never use it and just pirate EA games so I can see why publishers would be put off this kind of service.

Well yes, because when announcing Origin, EA also pulled all their games from Steam, revealed Origin titles would sell at the sime price or higher and would be needed to play games in addition to any other layers of DRM already present on the game and/or present on any other service you bought the game from (such as D2D).

Which means it's entirely possible for a game (like say... Battlefield 3) to include three or more separate layers of DRM and up to three logins just to play the game (retail disc of BF3: Disc check-layer one, Origin login- layer two, Battle Log login- layer three).

It's the polar opposite of Valve/Steam's approach of having one account that unifies all your games and online content. It's one account, that allows you access to to all the other accounts that you still have to log into, one at a time.

Begs the serious question, why not steal the game and throw all that trouble out the window?

Kwil:
Generally agree, but you fail in the same way that most of these rants against "the man" fail.. you forget that the reason we're getting this crap DRM stuff imposed on us in the first place is because of the pirates.

That's why I get really annoyed whenever somebody gets up on their righteous horse and says, "It's the companies' fault!"

NO. IT. ISN'T.
It is, and will remain, the pirates fault. You want to fight piracy? Here's a good way, tell everybody you know who's a pirate that they're a prick for forcing companies to put all this crap on their games to try to slow them down.

There are ways to lessen piracy, yes. And yes, the companies can take steps toward it as Steam has done, but let's be honest, unless everybody released on Steam, your next rant would be about how it's so inconvenient to remember which service your game is signed up with and so people pirate because they don't want to be bothered going through any service.

On the other hand, *we* can take steps toward stopping piracy and crappy products at the same time, simply by refusing to give pirates any succor or rationalization. You hear that somebody pirated a game, just go, "Man, that's not cool," and no matter what half-ass rationalization they give you, repeat, "Whatever, it's still a shitty thing to do."

It ain't as much about piracy as it is about control. CD-Keys and DRM, Activation Limits, region locking, services like Steam/Origin (they want you to play their game only on their platform) and all that don't stop piracy but they can limit things like the amount of people a game is going to be played by (only activating on one account), which region you are allowed to buy your game from (at what price) or if you are only allowed to make one character for StarCraft II you don't want to share the Win/Loss stats with someone else. Same thing with playing a game with your mates using the same copy, years ago it was considered "fair use", and companies like Blizzard even had "Spawn Installations" for that alone. Nowadays everyone is supposed to buy a game and input his key into his separate account. If you think none of this would have been without "piracy" you're delusional... also what the hell *is* piracy anyway? Copying and sharing content with people, the same thing you did with your friends and family or you did with your video recorder in the 80s and 90s... they're trying to stop that, also used games and rentals.

Not too long ago there was a thread started about the DRM, multiplayer, DLC etc. in Mass Effect 3 and asking weather people are still willing to buy it.

I joined the discussion by adding: Yes, I am going to buy it, but I'm also going to pirate it, or just crack it so I don't have to put up with the publishers bull(origins).

I used to be a pirate way back when I wasn't a serious gamer, and when the stores in my country didn't actually have them, but that changed, over time my passion for games rose and I felt I had to give back to the creators(as any responsible human should).

BUT

The games industry has done nothing to make me stop piracy all together, I buy the games and pirate them as well. Last time I bought the Mass Effect 2 Collectors Edition(PC), I opened it up looked through the manual and art book for a bit and NEVER TOOK OUT THE DISKS, because I just didn't want to go through the hassle.

Pirating was just more convenient, no disk, no login, no internet verification, no mofo CD-key, no [disk 2 must be inserted to play], just ME, the GAME, and OUR PERSONAL CONNECTION.

I also find it ironic that I was almost willing to quit PC gaming in favor for the console experience, I got a PS3 and everything, I figured: Why not? there's no CD-key or other cr@p to deal with, just insert disk and start playing, I loved that, and now it feels like the PC all over again.

Nowadays I get a new game for my PS3 am like: THE HELL IS THIS? why are you stopping me from playing, leave me alone, I want to play my game that I just payed 80-100$ for(yes, that is what my country is charging me for a brand new game).

At last someone see pirates for what they are. Competitors. Provide a better service and you get people hand you money over fist.

Don't trash patches Jim. First off they don't take that long, and unlike online passes they add things to the game. They add balances and bug fixes. Before patches the only way to fix major bugs was to fix it in the second print, so if you already bought the game you had to sell it as used and buy a new one, or more likely just deal with the bug.

I remember Soul Calibur 3 for the PS2 had a major bug in it that would delete save data under certain circumstances unless it was the first save in the memory card.

I had to buy a whole new memory card to deal with that problem, and with patches I wouldn't have had to.

Music and movies don't have patches because they don't need them. The only other medium that needs patches is software, and those get patches too.

An attack on Jefa-fa Dun-HAM? Low blow, Jim! XD

Melon Hunter:
That's how a competitive market works; one company sets up a business in a pre-existing market to try and get some of the profits from it. Should Microsoft not have bothered with making the Xbox, as it didn't need to exist, due to the Playstation 2 and Gamecube already existing? Of course not.

In a way, it should have been a good thing, as Steam hold a virtual monopoly over digital distribution for PC games. The problem is, Origin has nowhere near the level of good service and pricing that Steam offers currently.

But here's the thing....

For one, it's a DRM scheme owned by a company that is notorious for screwing its playerbase. Were it owned by, say, Bethesda or Blizzard or someone with a mostly positive rep, people wouldn't have freaked out as much.

Second, and more damning, EA built up Origin as "the only way to get EA games" and promptly pulled its services from Steam, making it less convenient to get the games. Enter Jim's argument about piracy being more abundant when products are less convenient to purchase. It wasn't an effort to breed competition so much as a concerted effort by EA to REMOVE all of its competition and make itself the lone distributor of all of its own games. That just makes people more willing to pirate their games because they're now harder to buy than ever. When everything is provided in one nice neat service (Steam), people are fine with it. People don't want to use different DRM systems to access their full inventory of games, and they certainly don't want these DRM systems run by companies like EA.

fix-the-spade:

getoffmycloud:
The simple reason they don't do more stuff like steam is look what happened with origin as soon as it was announced everyone came out and said they hated it and would never use it and just pirate EA games so I can see why publishers would be put off this kind of service.

Well yes, because when announcing Origin, EA also pulled all their games from Steam, revealed Origin titles would sell at the sime price or higher and would be needed to play games in addition to any other layers of DRM already present on the game and/or present on any other service you bought the game from (such as D2D).

Which means it's entirely possible for a game (like say... Battlefield 3) to include three or more separate layers of DRM and up to three logins just to play the game (retail disc of BF3: Disc check-layer one, Origin login- layer two, Battle Log login- layer three).

It's the polar opposite of Valve/Steam's approach of having one account that unifies all your games and online content. It's one account, that allows you access to to all the other accounts that you still have to log into, one at a time.

Begs the serious question, why not steal the game and throw all that trouble out the window?

I own the retail copy of battlefield 3 and all that stuff just logs in as soon as open battlefield 3 so its not really a problem and steam still does all that stuff and it does it to games that have nothing to do with them it really annoys me that I have to have a steam account to play stuff like shogun total war and deus ex for no reason

Kind of ironic how Jim decries publishers for trying to discourage used sales, yet praises iTunes and Steam, where used sales are actually impossible.

Wait... Patches and Firmware encourage piracy..? Okay... No more patches or firmware that improves stuff. Also 30 minutes to download a firmware..? ARE YOU THAT LAZY? I mean really? Turn on a episode of a show, and something like that while you wait. Are you that flustered about it. Do you have nothing else to do (which you being a game reviewer, must have loads of stuff to do) while you wait for it to download but look at the screen?

Also as for netflix... It's soo easy to get acess to it. Anroids, ipods, wii, ps3, xbox, pc, mac, and everything you can imagine plays netflix lately...

getoffmycloud:
The simple reason they don't do more stuff like steam is look what happened with origin as soon as it was announced everyone came out and said they hated it and would never use it and just pirate EA games so I can see why publishers would be put off this kind of service.

You're over-simplifying. There's good reason for why people hated Origin before it was even available. Mostly, it all boils down to EA being total jack-asses about how they went about releasing it.

I've heard Jim complain more and more about online passes, DRM, and DLC. However, I like that because I've experienced it.

Saints Row the Third, for example, has "passes" for both online play (as in the pathetic 2-person co-op or the lackluster 4-person whored mode) and a pile of DLC that I would never bother with (warrior outfits for $3? puh-lease). A really annoying problem I had is when I moved my save file from one memory drive to another (on my 360), and the Genki Pre-order DLC somehow vanished, even though I saved with the gloves on (goodbye, octo-puss gun and Genkimobile T_T ). Now I understand another reason (besides features cut off from SR2) why Jim gave it a 7.5.

I haven't had a problem with DRM, but Portal 2's PS3 connection to Steam sure is nice.

I've been ironically both very busy, and very sick recently and am playing catch up with the features here. I haven't had much time for sites or message boards in general. Ironically, it's at a time when it seems like guys like Jim are coming around to things I've been saying for years now. My favorite metaphor ultimatly being that pirates and the game industry going at it are like gang bangers fighting the mafia, there isn't a right side.

As I have also said before, the game industry's very business model isn't even legal, or if it somehow is, it remains that way only because of the system having been subverted. At least in the US (which is the major market) it's illegal to hold monopolies where one person controls something entirely, or for there to be a functional cartel which is when a bunch of people in the same industry get together to coordinate and set prices and regions so they do not have to directly compete with each other, which gets to the same place. An example of cartel behavior that most people are probably familiar with has to do with gas and oil companies who are under constant federal investigation for conspiring to artificially raise prices and avoiding direct competition. There are numerous other example of this, but that's a big one, and it doesn't just apply to things considered to be nessecities.

In the end capitalism and business always lead to a successful business wanting a monopoly which is never good, which is why we have laws to prevent it. The idea in the US at least is to force competition so producers will strive to produce the highest quality products, for the lowest price and continue to innovate in that direction.

What we see right now with the game industry is a case where the industry sets prices, with games retailing for the same amount irregardless of what hey cost to develop. A game that cost 10 million and one that cost 30 million both hit the shelves for $60. What's more release schedules are frequently coordinated to avoid big titles competing with each other so nobody lowers their prices. We've all seen it and talked about it when say a big game like "Modern Warfare part XXXVI" (or whatever they are up to now, I don't follow it) comes out, everyone else pushes their releases up to avoid having to share the market, rather than say lowering their prices and offering incentives to buy their product instead.

Things like DRM are also a sign of this, the industry as a whole has coordinated embracing it, since almost nobody DOESN'T use DRM of some form now, it isn't like consumers are given much of an option.

Now granted there ARE exceptions to everything, there are game companies that have rolled DRM free, but this is how things generally are, and how the big boys are rolling, and why. At the end of the day companies like EA and Activision are as much partners in setting policies and exploiting the comsumer base than they are rivals, and that's what has to stop as much as anything.

Right now I think that the game industry is big, but it isn't big enough to force the goverment into serious investigation or action.... or even making a show of it. Right now there are enough non-gamers voting where a political position can be made out of turning video games into a boogie-man. Big issues like what we're discussing. that can impact media along a wide spectrum, are largely overlooked because this isn't an issue that truely inpacts everyone like say the price of a gallon of gas at the pump. The goverment is pretty much safe in taking industry dollars (ironically at the same time it takes money from those wanting to regulate game content, or make positions out of it) because John Q Public just doesn't quite care yet, and I'd imagine the fat cats are banking on precedent being established before he does.

Now on the flip side, for those who have read this far, I am going to address something from the last Jimquisition. Jim is right about the problem with copyright hoarding, but I don't think he fully understands all the issues here and WHY the system is broken, and why rights holders are so reluctant to give anything up.

Gaming and IPs evolve based on things that have been done before. A company needs to be able to defend itself against accusations that they stole an idea from someone else who might be doing something similar. An established product, even if not especially successful, like "Metal Arms: A Glitch In The System" provides a fairly early example of a third person shooter and now-standard style of gameplay that was not contested. If some third person shooter creator claims that their ideas are being ripped off, that game can be trotted out and say "well our ideas evolved from this, note the similarities". If they sell the rights or they revert back to the creator, they can't really do that. Especially seeing as it could be argued that if they at one time held those rights, the guy who holds them later (or they revert back to) could bring a case against producers for doing something similar.

The way copyrights and precedents work, someone is inevitably going to be an arsehole with those rights. If it's not big companies, it's going to be some past-his-prime developer who might not have done anything for decades demanding a cut to develop in an entire genere because he has a property old enough to defend the position that it was all his idea. Heck we have problems with this kind of thing with patent trolls for actual physical products.

There is a valid reason why a producer wants to have control of everything they have funded so they can defend themselves as their products evolve and pull out a chain of precedent if they are questioned. If a company produces one third person shooter, they don't want to have problems doing another differant one, because of similarities to another game they had rights to but no longer possess. As much as I hate derivitive games, nobody would benefit from constant warfare over the rights to every generic first or third person space-soldier
themed shooter out there based on similarity.... an arguement that would probably end with something like the guy who did "Trantor" (an old bargain basement game for early PCs) buying a manmade island with mountains shaped like his head all over it.

I'm not saying this is good, just that the problem is deeper than most people give it credit for. As corrupt as the industry is, and as much as I gripe about it, you have to understand there are SOME valid positions there and reasons why certain things are done.

In the end this goes beyond piracy, SOPA, or anything else, and the need to simply lob the entire US IP/Copyright system into the trash and redesign it without grandfather clauses. No matter how much we need that though nobody really has the guts to do it because of the fallout it would case both domestically and internationally. One of the disadvantages to our system of goverment (in comparison to all of it's advantages) is that transient politicians always have to worry about being re-elected, and people hate chaos and uncertainy even in the short term when there will be long term benefits. This means we very rarely see big issues addressed because the short term fallout to any major change is going to be enough to get someone booted out of office and replaced by someone running on a platform of re-establishing the old, broken system to end the immediate problems. The US can't really do things that are going to pan out in 10-20 years because no matter what is claimed nobody wants to deal with it or be patient and any hardship that can be tied to any politician's plan that is happening right now can lead to that guy being booted from office..... so basially, like it or not, we're likely to be stuck with what we're dealing with short of something akin to an actual revolution to force change. If you look back at the left wing terrorists of years past that helped build modern liberalism, you can see what it takes to make the goverment change in any radical way. Like it or not those concerned over games, or even copyrights and IPs in general, just don't have the following, or the fire among the followers, to do anything but bellyache and write easily ignored petitions.

getoffmycloud:
The simple reason they don't do more stuff like steam is look what happened with origin as soon as it was announced everyone came out and said they hated it and would never use it and just pirate EA games so I can see why publishers would be put off this kind of service.

I hate it and won't use it because of the insane EULA, where they can mine my computer for data, do whatever they want with the info, oh and lets not forget the little, we are not responsible for us fucking up your computer clause.

Let's not also forget that because they wanted even more DRM added on to ME3 if I want to play that game I now have a 3rd freaking thing I have to log into. And I'm just hoping I can import my steam save files to origin. I mean seriously? Bioware DLC Website, Cerebrus Network, and Origin could they make it any harder for me to spend my money?

EA could have easily made something as awesome as steam, but you know why they didn't? because they are from a time where it was the excepted norm to fuck over your customers.

This image pretty much sums up what he was talking about with DVDs. I want physical copies, that's how I feel more secure in building a library, not having it purely digital, but THEY want ulitmate control over YOU. That's why in games, they took away options for dedicated servers that allowed 64-128 people for some games, and took a step BACKWARDS to laggy, publisher owned servers that have a max of 12 players and can and will be shut down permanently to force you into buying the new sequel if you want to keep playing multiplayer.

Companies are causing their own problem, but they won't stop until they start dragging 12 year olds and grey haired grandmothers into court like the music company did.

Also, it took music fans turning on their favorite bands as well, such as Metallica fans destroying discs and records in a public protest. I doubt gamers would leave the internet for something like that though

image

Unfortunately Jim just confirmed one of my biggest fears: games are going to become as crappy as music has become.
It does seem to be on that path.

All I can really add to this discussion is that I've noticed that the Internet has been really stirred up recently, esp with all the megaupload/sopa shtuff. What a weird time to be an Internet user; should be interesting to see how it all unfolds

http://ageekslingo.blogspot.com/2012/01/issue-1-piracy-and-theft.html
Part of my take on piracy ...

Anyways, as for the actual point ... Gotta agree with @GonzoGamer ... Games are certainly on the path straight to the state the music industry hit ...
We can't move on, if we have monopolies secured in any way possible, and publishers blaming it all on piracy, and the "solutions" are counter-productive at best.

Great episode. I could pirate games, but then there's Steam. In less than a year, I have accumulated more than 100 games on the service, simply because it is so damned convenient and appealing. It has gotten to a point where I don't even like purchasing games that can't be registered on Steam. I don't like my Origin account, it's just a service that "serves" to split up my library.

With respect to console/portable titles, Atlus is an example of publisher that has been doing things right. Preorder? Would you like a soundtrack with that? No limited edition required. DLC? Online passes? What are those? I have experienced nothing but great service and games from Atlus and so go out of my way to preorder (i.e. Devil Survivor 2) and buy new (i.e. Persona 2: IS...Gamestop still had new copies, somehow). Doing the same for EA would do little other than make me feel dirty (okay, I picked up the Mass Effects for $5 each during a Steam sale). However, I don't plan on buying Mass Effect 3 for quite a while.

thank god for jim, as he speaks the thruth (not that the points he makes are new or something, but what does the average guy at an online forum mean to people other than the forum's users)

that's exactly the point: i buy a game and it's a friggin' hassle; i forget my BF 2 pw? yeah, sorry, you'll have to start all over, because or pw-servers cannot manage a pw reset/change
you bought a game and want to play after you installed it? well, before you can intall it, please install this publisher-owned DL-manager, enter some code, again, tell us all about your life, bank accounts and sexual preferneces, allow us to search you computer (only for programmes we don't like, of course), and then you can start installing it, after you agreed to our EULA that allowas us everything and you nothing. after that, please log in to your publisher's account (if you're lucky it'll even work - if not, screw you, because our support ain't worth shit) and stay connected to our verification server at all times (which will crash for several days the weekend after the game's release - what, you wanna play during the weekend, when you actually have time to spare? LAWL!)
also, please endure every single fucking logo of every single fucking technology and corporation involved before you get to the start-screen - every single fucking time. and also wait until the auo-patcher, which you cannot abort, until it downloaded the 3,472,368th patch, which btw will take forever.
OR
go to a p2p/filehost/whatever website, where your friendly neighbourhood-pirate cracked the game, included patches, made them work, lets you easily install and then just PLAY it, when and where you like, even if you have a shitty ISP who crashes on you all the time - just DL, install, play. that easy.
what, the release won't work? no problem, he'll have it fixed until tomorrow - if he's busy and cannot work around the problem today.

convenience - it sells. inconvenience - it sucks.
srsly, who initially got the idea of punishing the legitimate owners of a game? >.< that does not only make my wallet weigh less, but also makes me feel stupid for BUYING LEGALLY. aaargh. while friends of mine have fun playing the game. while they laugh at me. because i bought.
lol?

(yes, steam is DRM, but it works. enter game's name, pay via paypal, DL immediately, play. no hassle, no strings attached. <3<3<3 steam, it never treated me, a loyal customer, like a criminal :D )

Korten12:
Wait... Patches and Firmware encourage piracy..? Okay... No more patches or firmware that improves stuff. Also 30 minutes to download a firmware..? ARE YOU THAT LAZY? I mean really? Turn on a episode of a show, and something like that while you wait. Are you that flustered about it. Do you have nothing else to do (which you being a game reviewer, must have loads of stuff to do) while you wait for it to download but look at the screen?

Also as for netflix... It's soo easy to get acess to it. Anroids, ipods, wii, ps3, xbox, pc, mac, and everything you can imagine plays netflix lately...

Day one patches and download encourage piracy. When I buy a game I want to play it, not wait for it to download a bunch of stuff. Some of that is unavoidable for older games where patches can be expected, but day one the game shouldn't have anything to patch. If I wanted to watch another episode of whatever on Netflix, I wouldn't have gone out and bought a game. I would've watched TV.
And Netflix is only super-available if you live in the United States, or so I'm told.

Kwil:

It is, and will remain, the pirates fault. You want to fight piracy? Here's a good way, tell everybody you know who's a pirate that they're a prick for forcing companies to put all this crap on their games to try to slow them down.

That makes a lot of sense. It's the pirate's fault that the company puts on DRM that has no effect but to punish the legit consumer. It's so obvious, why didn't I see it before?

Oh right, it's a load of crap. They're not being forced into punishing legit consumers because of fears of piracy. I mean, going back to the music business, piracy hasn't gone away, but online music stores by and large have moved from or are moving away from DRM on their products.

Of course, as Jim pointed out, the industry is slow to move and will do so kicking and screaming.

While piracy is a problem, the industry has a choice, and it chooses to attack/harass/inconvenience legit consumers. What you're doing is blame shifting.

You said that valve doesn't have much of a problem with piracy.

Portal 2 was the 5th most pirated game last year.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/115003-TorrentFreak-Reveals-Top-Pirated-Games-of-2011

That could be considered a problem.

Hell yeah Jim! You RAWK! Tell it like it is brotha!

DRM just makes the pirated copy better, online pass and project $10 just makes the pirated copy better, nickle and diming DLC just makes the pirated copy better.

Steam is a form of DRM but it goes out of its way to add value to the player through achievements, community and library organization. It is DRM that goes out of its way to be as helpful and transparent as possible.

Securom and StarForce rootkits just anger the player. Once a company has lost the good will of the player the company will NEVER get it back. I will never purchase another EA game just because of the attitude Project $10 exhibits. And you know what I don't need to, there are so many other options for me.

You know what makes me feel secure in buying games on Steam? Gamecopyworld and Piratebay. I'm fine with Steam DRM because even if they shutdown the service and wipe the the games off my HD I can always get back what I bought with or without them. Without that guarantee Steam would never get a single dollar from me, and they have gotten a lot.

kurupt87:
The actual fuck. You're from Bexleyheath? They shut the Rat and Parrot, it's a Chinese now. So that's good.

Does the bus to Amadeus still go from there? It was several years ago now, but it was definitely an interesting experience...

As usual, I find it very difficult to argue with anything Jim says.

You just keep getting better and better Jim. Keep them coming. And yes thank god for you and people like you. Without, we'd be paying developers for the opportunity for them to think about making a game.

Jim Sterling's profile:

Warnings: You have received 2 warnings. You may receive up to 4 without negative consequences.

I remember I put assassins creed revelations in my ps3 and it took almost 45 mins to patch. I had sat down expecting to play game right away but it patched without even asking me. Honestly I plan to not get a next gen console if it's just a pc with gamepad as controller. If I'm gonna have to wait to play might as well play on pc. Plus typing in a code is easier with a keyboard.

Kwil:
Generally agree, but you fail in the same way that most of these rants against "the man" fail.. you forget that the reason we're getting this crap DRM stuff imposed on us in the first place is because of the pirates.

So you think that if piracy magically disappears, DRM will end?

It won't.

Me and some friends pirated college books because they were not longer for sale. The editor refused to print more copies.

The copies were scarce and very pricy. There was no single copy available. So everyone pirated it.

After a lot of requests to start printing again, they refused because of "piracy".
I'm not sure what they tried to pull off, but they forced people into piracy and then used the college students that had no way of buying any legal copy as an excuse to stop printing.

Point is, DRM won't go away until there is a paradigm shift. Even if you could wipe all piracy in the world there any excuse for DRM would suffice.

It's not like you have a say on the matter.

In my upbringing, I've come to learn that the majority of people I know will pirate until which point the DRM makes piracy to risky or challenging to overcome.

I feel that removing DRM, would simply lead to far more piracy than ever before and even less sales. I'm sure some people would end their boycotts and buy legit...but I would imagine far more people would quickly learn that there are no 'true' barriers and lots of savings to acting illegally.

Jim brings up an excellent example when using the music industry. But piracy of something that costs $2 can't be compared to something that costs $60.

I have no solution to the problem. There are clear issues with DRM and online subscriptions. But I also don't think that publishers are as stupid as Jim makes them out to be. Companies are out to make money and grow as a result. They wouldn't knowingly spend all this time and resources on DRM if they knew it was going to lead to fewer sales.

I love how Jim can say things about piracy on his show that would get someone banned if they said it in the comments. :/

Kwil:
Generally agree, but you fail in the same way that most of these rants against "the man" fail.. you forget that the reason we're getting this crap DRM stuff imposed on us in the first place is because of the pirates.

That's why I get really annoyed whenever somebody gets up on their righteous horse and says, "It's the companies' fault!"

NO. IT. ISN'T.
It is, and will remain, the pirates fault. You want to fight piracy? Here's a good way, tell everybody you know who's a pirate that they're a prick for forcing companies to put all this crap on their games to try to slow them down.

There are ways to lessen piracy, yes. And yes, the companies can take steps toward it as Steam has done, but let's be honest, unless everybody released on Steam, your next rant would be about how it's so inconvenient to remember which service your game is signed up with and so people pirate because they don't want to be bothered going through any service.

On the other hand, *we* can take steps toward stopping piracy and crappy products at the same time, simply by refusing to give pirates any succor or rationalization. You hear that somebody pirated a game, just go, "Man, that's not cool," and no matter what half-ass rationalization they give you, repeat, "Whatever, it's still a shitty thing to do."

Nobody is saying it's entirely the company's fault.
He explicitly states that piracy will continue to exist no matter how hard or how little we try to kill it.
The point he's trying to get across is that any attempts to destroy piracy actually make it much, much worse.
He's not saying piracy is inherently caused by DRM, but that DRM will push some people to pirate when they otherwise would have legitimately bought the game.

By the way, getting on your high horse isn't going to stop pirates.
I don't know where you got that idea.
Saying "Man, that's not cool" isn't going to do anything.
They'll just reply with "Well, fuck you!" or some other shit.
They're just not going to listen.

babinro:
In my upbringing, I've come to learn that the majority of people I know will pirate until which point the DRM makes piracy to risky or challenging to overcome.

I feel that removing DRM, would simply lead to far more piracy than ever before and even less sales. I'm sure some people would end their boycotts and buy legit...but I would imagine far more people would quickly learn that there are no 'true' barriers and lots of savings to acting illegally.

Jim brings up an excellent example when using the music industry. But piracy of something that costs $2 can't be compared to something that costs $60.

I have no solution to the problem. There are clear issues with DRM and online subscriptions. But I also don't think that publishers are as stupid as Jim makes them out to be. Companies are out to make money and grow as a result. They wouldn't knowingly spend all this time and resources on DRM if they knew it was going to lead to fewer sales.

Removing DRM would make games easier to pirate?
That's stupid.
Even with DRM nearly every game is availible to download illegaly at release date, sometimes even before.
And the most "Work" for the people who download the game is just to copy one data.

And that's the proplem that jim described. The People who buy the game have to do more work to play the game, than the people who download it illegaly.
So pirated games are not only "cheaper" but even more comfortable to use, and that's really stupid.
I don't say they should remove any copy protection, but they should design it, so that it doesn't causes problems for Paying Customers.

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