No Right Answer: Worst Instance When Fans Didn't Show Up

 Pages PREV 1 2 3
 

Capitano Segnaposto:
*Please note this is all in good fun, I do not wish any damning upon anyone except Nintendo for not releasing Mother 3.

You want to wish damnation on a company for not wanting to pay more money to sell a franchise in the U.S. than they would probably get in profits from selling said franchise in the U.S.?

Hey, I showed up for Scott Pilgrim in theaters, AND I bought it on DVD. Earthbound I didn't show up for because, well, I didn't have a Super Nintendo back then, I had a Sega Genesis. At least I have a legitimate excuse.

My vote goes for Stargate Universe. Here we have the best serious sci-fi show since Firefly and we were let down first by the existing fanbase for rejecting it arbitrarily, then we were let down by SyFy for not calculating the digital ratings and just being pretty shit in general. Thanks a lot human race.

And Alan Wake. It was a brilliant game that everyone made the mistake of thinking was supposed to be scary horror instead of a super-natural thriller. So when it wasn't scary everyone gets let down and misses the point. Although Microsoft forgetting to count half its sales didn't help much. At least we're getting another chance at this one.

Actually Earthbound isn't a good example. As someone who had a SNES I never heard of that game until well after the SNES had gone. While it might have been promoted heavily to a segement within geek culture, it was NOT promoted properly to the demographic at large as I knew a decent amount about gaming at the time, was really into RPGs, both PnP AND computer oriented, and it was my kind of thing.

To be honest I think there is MORE awareness of Earthbound and Mother now than there was then.

Basically, throwing up advertisements and spending a lot of money promoting something is absolutly pointless if you somehow do it the wrong way, and it's not always obvious what went wrong.

To be honest I tend to think of Nintendo as being less stingy, than stupid.

Earthbound/Mother is in the same basic position as "Shin Megami Tensei", basically despite the promotion that was done with it, it managed to slip under the radar. The original SMT releases did not sell all that well, and got most of their following after the fact, which eventually lead to them trying again, and well... you can see what happened with the SMT titles becoming a pretty big deal in the US within the intended niche audience, which CAN sustain them.

Of course I suspect a lot of this comes down to racism as well. To be entirely blunt marketing realities aren't all of which drives the Japanese gaming industry. Years ago I used to be heavily into reading translated Japanese gaming periodicals to find out what was going on. One thing I caught was that there was an attitude that the Japanese, especially the fans, want to keep a lot of things Japan-only, and feel that it somehow cheapens the property to have an overseas release, especially to the US (which they have a wierd love/hate relationship with). Things like NOT releasing the "Final Fantasy X: International Edition" with expanded content and "Final Fantasy X-2: Final Mission" ending that story were NOT based on sales, but simply a desire to snub the US, some things I was reading were quite blunt about it.

This logic also influances why the US has not gotten numerous other games like the various "Super Robot Wars"/"Super Robot Taisen" games released more seriously here. There are claims that the liscencing would be too expensive, and similar things, but the bottom line is that there is a lot of pressure to keep them out of the US market. Selling to the US for more money is actually seen by some as "selling out". Now granted you might remember us getting some rather bad installments for the gameboy, and a more recent "Fronteir" installment which oddly enough didn't include any fighting giant robots and was more of a straight RPG (though it did feature Kos MOS from Xenosaga which was pretty cool I guess).

The overall point here is that with "Mother", I'm not entirely sure you can put the blame for us not getting futher games in the series at the feet of the fans. With the word of mouth and it making all these "best of" lists as a game many people hadn't heard of beforehand... well I'm pretty sure it could pull a SMT. I think there are a couple of differant reasons (mentioned above) we haven't seen it.

As far as "Scott Pilgrim" goes, I think there was some vast overestimation of the popularity of the property. What's more it was a movie made very specifically for a young geek demographic, rather than geeks in general. Kids by definition having less disposable income and the need to convince their parents to take them to a movie like that and pick them up.

I'm a huge geek, and really while I thought some of the ideas were interesting, I had no real interest in seeing the movie, so I didn't. It pretty much made my "maybe on Netflix, if I'm really bored" list, because really I don't associate myself with a teenager hipster douchebag doing a modernized retread of "Parker Lewis Can't Lose". Granted 15 or 20 years ago when I was in high school, or maybe early college, I would have loved this, at 36... meh.

Scott Pilgrim failed because it wasn't a geek movie, it was a movie aimed at a narrow segement of the geek community, that oddly enough have problems (especially in this economy) attending movies. Especially seeing as movie theaters over the last decade or so have tended to move to more isolated locations, as opposed to being say on the side of mainstreets. Most are attached to shopping centers, isolated from residential districts for traffic related reasons. This is also done specifically because movie theaters attract kids, and people in downtown or nearby residential areas don't want the rowdy kids around that they bring in.

While it was many years ago, one of the last few remaining theaters in an actual town that showed movies like this "Jewett City" was in part responsible for the town imposing a curfew on those below a certain age after a specific time. It was challenged and overturned, but well... that kind of summarizes the attitude.

Now granted there are probably areas that represent exceptions as far as theater locations, youth access, and similar things, but thinking nationally... well, I think there were problems with audience accessibility that were not considered, of course then again I also think they misunderstood who their audience actually was and how narrow a niche it was.

On both topics: I own Earthbound, it's fantastic, and it's moving in all spectrums of emotions, and it's rather fun. I think it has one of the best last acts of any video game ever made (I'd put Earthbound's Ending with Metal Gear Solid 4's amazing almost ending act sequence), and I enjoy it so much.

Scott Pilgrim, I actually watched it on DVD twice (I almost never watch movies more than once), bought it on Blu-Ray and DVD combo (Love it, started my bad habit with Blu-Ray purchases), have bought the PSN game for it, yet I did all this without even reading one book (Yup, I broke my own rules and watched the movie first instead of going to the original medium).

I live in the middle of nowhere, Montana, where the movie did not play anywhere, so watching it on DVD was the best I could do. I was also too young to support Earthbound when it came out (Wiki said the North American Release Date was June 5, '95 - I was Five years old).

I think I should be exempt, but understand I love them both.

I remember seeing Earthbound on the shelves.

It costs the equivalent of 90$ when it first came out. It's not so much as fans didn't show up as Nintendo packed that stuff so full of useless promo shit it ramped the price up beyond any reason.

I was not gonna spend 90$ the equivalent of 2 regular games on a new release. No matter how much I wanted that game. Though if you really look at the sales figures it sold twice as well in Japan, but that really means it only sold about 300000 copies in Japan.

Nintendo just didn't know how to market a new product and they still don't because their localization offices are run by morons, sitting on their ass shoving cake into their fat faces.

Taken was so awesome, I saw it four times at the cinema.

Liam Neeson was that good in it.

Here's my problem with the argument: It assumes all Geeks/Nerds/Dorks are alike. We are... WERE separated from the mainstream for liking quirky and intelligent things, yes, but we don't all have the same tastes. This might start some flames, and please go ahead with your opinions. However, I didn't watch nor care about Scott Pilgrim and I'm not moved at all that it failed.

I find nothing relate-able to Scott Pilgrim. Not a single thing. The cast doesn't appeal to me in anyway, the in-jokes are out of my purview, and the character designs make me feel left out in the cold. I'm not going to go and put out my money to make sure something like Scott Pilgrim succeeds just because it supposedly should fall under my protection as a Geek/Nerd/Dork IP. I don't WANT more things like Scott Pilgrim to succeed because all people will just focus on stuff like it more, leaving me with more unrelatable things.

It's like how people got on my case for not liking Guitar Hero. Even non gamers would tell me how they don't play games and they find it amazing, wondering what was wrong with me. Simple. I don't like Rock. I don't like Heavy Metal. The music genre that the game was catering to did not include me. I'm not a bad gamer for not supporting a game that doesn't have me in mind, and I resented the 'If you don't support these new IPs, all we're going to get is sequels' argument then. And I damn sure don't appreciate it now.

Simply put, Sequels would not get made if people wouldn't go out to see them. Just like another Scott Pilgrim won't be made in some time because no one went to see that. If they put out Transformers 2 even thought Transformers 1 got some dicey reviews... and NO ONE went to see Transformers 2, would we have a three now? No. People don't go to sequels because they have no choice. People go to Sequels BECAUSE it's their choice. I haven't been to the movie theater in months because nothing interested me. I never once thought 'That's all they have out this friday? ok, I'll just pick up because these are my only options.'

It's a guilt-trip move to blame us for the plethora of Movie Sequels out there. Like one poster said, maybe we are not just as big of a majority force like the net convinced us we were. We go into cracks to seek each other out. Just because we have a big group here in the Escapist doesn't mean the World Went Geek. Because I and my friends still get the judging eyes from the majority of non-geeks there are in the world.

Susurrus:
Jericho.

Absolutely brilliant series. Cancelled after Season 1.

FAN acclaim / protests BROUGHT IT BACK.

Noone watched the new season. It got cancelled again.

That's a bigger fail than Scott Pilgrim or Earthbound. IT GOT RESURRECTED AND WE STILL BLEW IT.

I remember not wanting to get into it when I first saw commercials for it. It was moved to Sci-Fi, back when they did four hour blocks on something.

I loved it so much I knew I was going to be heartbroken. As soon as I followed it and told everyone about it, I found out it was brought back for a second second... but never would be heard from again.

In our defense, the original time slot was garbage and no one knew it was on. Who puts anything on a Tuesday?

I think the guys got this one wrong. Earthbound was released in Japan in 1994 and in the US in 1995. That's a LONG time ago, before the real rise of "geek culture" and the internet. I'd never even HEARD of Earthbound until I played Super Smash Brothers Melee (although being an Australian when I don't think it ever came out here didn't help with that). And back then, "weird" games like Earthbound didn't really appeal to the gamer base, even among JRPGS, compared to the likes of epics such as Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger.

Now Scott Pilgrim on the other hand was nothing less than a glorious celebration of geek culture in its entirity. A film by geeks, for geeks, based on a comic by by a geek, for geeks. Any one who considers themself a geek has an OBLIGATION to see this film. Now, I don't know whether we actually let the film down by not showing or whether every geek actually DID go and see it (but no-one else, since the film is a hard sell to anyone who ISN'T a geek) but any geek who didn't see the film (or at least buy it on DVD as I did) should hang their head in shame.

And on the topic of Xenoblade Chronicles: if you don't want to buy it because you don't like JRPGs, that's more than fair enough. That's a no-brainer. But if you like JRPGs and own a Wii, then for god's sake buy the fucking game. Not because of Operation Rainfall, not because you have to "do your part", just because it's one of the best fucking JRPGs in years, capisce? Sheesh!

minuialear:

Capitano Segnaposto:
*Please note this is all in good fun, I do not wish any damning upon anyone except Nintendo for not releasing Mother 3.

You want to wish damnation on a company for not wanting to pay more money to sell a franchise in the U.S. than they would probably get in profits from selling said franchise in the U.S.?

Somehow, I highly doubt it will cost all that much to translate the game into English and put it on the Virtual Console for the Wii/3DS. So yes, I am damning them, but not for the idiotic reason you had suggested.

HEY!!!

i saw Scott Pilgrim in the theaters AND bought the blue-ray

Earthbound >.>

i don't actually like, so losing out on mother 3, mean s nothing to me

Capitano Segnaposto:

minuialear:

Capitano Segnaposto:
*Please note this is all in good fun, I do not wish any damning upon anyone except Nintendo for not releasing Mother 3.

You want to wish damnation on a company for not wanting to pay more money to sell a franchise in the U.S. than they would probably get in profits from selling said franchise in the U.S.?

Somehow, I highly doubt it will cost all that much to translate the game into English and put it on the Virtual Console for the Wii/3DS. So yes, I am damning them, but not for the idiotic reason you had suggested.

They have to localize it, do advertising, host files, and possibly do other things. This also quite possibly requires pulling people from teams doing things potentially more profitable than this franchise in order to do so. It's not necessarily just a "let's upload this and sell it" process. Unless there's a significant incentive for Nintendo to do so (which clearly there's not, given they haven't done it yet), it's not worth the efforts of the company to divert any resources to a project that a minority of its consumers will actually buy. If you think that logic is "idiotic," then you clearly have no experience running a profitable business. Acting like they're not releasing it because they're too lazy to do something that would make them a large profit (arguably not the case) or because they like being witholding (also arguably not the case) is the idiotic standpoint, in this scenario.

I did my part with Scott Pilgrim too. Went to see the movie twice, and pulled a friend with me the second time. Also bought the blu-ray combo pack on the date it was released and I got another friend enough into it where he bought the blu-ray pack as well. It really is too bad it didn't do better.

But there's one point that Kyle didn't make that I saw. Chris is right that we did get Scott Pilgrim. But I don't think Kyle really drove the point home that, by getting Scott Pilgrim, we've pretty much screwed ourselves for getting any more 'risky' movies. It bombed in the box office. Reguardless of DVD/Blu-ray sales, the movie was considered a failure overall by many. That really damned a lot of the content that could have been produced in my opinion. It leads to safer bets and more simplistic movies in the long run. The only real 'nerd' movies we might get are super-hero movies. And to be honest... I'm getting kinda sick of them. Avengers looks amazing, but after that... meh. MovieBob talked about how Scott Pilgrim might have directly effected another movie in the episode of The Big Picture called 'The Numbers.' It is something that we'll likely feel the effects of for a while.

As for Earthbound/Mother 3, it does exist. It's been made. They'll likely keep making the series as long as it makes money. Just because we don't get it in the US doesn't mean we can't get a hold of it. Does it suck we don't get it in English? Yes. But the idea that we 'aren't getting it at all' is a flawed one. Nintendo likely won't stop making a lot of games based on Mother's failure. We might not get them in the US, but it doesn't mean they won't exist.

Well, me and all of my friends saw Scott Pilgrim together at the movies. Hell, I bought it on blu-ray.

minuialear:

Capitano Segnaposto:

minuialear:

You want to wish damnation on a company for not wanting to pay more money to sell a franchise in the U.S. than they would probably get in profits from selling said franchise in the U.S.?

Somehow, I highly doubt it will cost all that much to translate the game into English and put it on the Virtual Console for the Wii/3DS. So yes, I am damning them, but not for the idiotic reason you had suggested.

They have to localize it, do advertising, host files, and possibly do other things. This also quite possibly requires pulling people from teams doing things potentially more profitable than this franchise in order to do so. It's not necessarily just a "let's upload this and sell it" process. Unless there's a significant incentive for Nintendo to do so (which clearly there's not, given they haven't done it yet), it's not worth the efforts of the company to divert any resources to a project that a minority of its consumers will actually buy. If you think that logic is "idiotic," then you clearly have no experience running a profitable business. Acting like they're not releasing it because they're too lazy to do something that would make them a large profit (arguably not the case) or because they like being witholding (also arguably not the case) is the idiotic standpoint, in this scenario.

Okay, I don't know about business so of course I don't understand half the crap you are talking 'bout. I don't understand what this localizing is? If that is just translation, I don't see why it would take a whole group of people just to get it done. Why would they have to advertise? Half the things they put on the Virtual Consoles they really don't advertise. I didn't see a single advertisement on anything other than the Nintendo Power or their website for Metroid 2 or Link's Awakening.

Now, on the "incentive" process; there is quite a bit of incentive for them to release games like The Legend of Zelda (NES), Mother 2, Final Fantasy 1, 4, 6 (I, II, and III in American Releases), the Minish Cap and other such old-ish games that they haven't done yet. They know they will make money on them. You shouldn't say that just because there isn't a lot of incentive for them to do it, that that is the reason why they haven't done it.

Sorry if my points make little sense, I am not good at debating.

The_root_of_all_evil:
image

The Milkman thinks there's something else you missed out on.

I just beat this game last year, and I want to punch my 8-year old self for not buying it. I've bought the game three times already. Once for myself and twice as a gift for my friends on steam.

Scott Pilgrim was a terrible movie.

Earthbound wins by default.

I blame marketing for most of these failures. I don't know whether they thought "The internet already say they'll love it, no need to make a big campaign for it, our work's already done!" or whether they just don't know how to market to geeks, but I for one had never heard of any of these until long after they were released, and even then it was usually through word of mouth. For some of these, such as Earthbound, this article is the first I've ever heard of it.

2xDouble:
I have nothing to add to this conversation that wasn't already said by Cracked:

Snakes on a Plane? How does it fit on that list? It always struck me as a film more along the lines of Epic Movie or whatever else they have in that series.

Anyway...I'd go with Earthbound as well. Other RPGs thrived then, why not Earthbound?

On a positive note, it is the fans who kept Chuck alive long enough for the writers to end the show on their own terms (well....the fans and Subway). I'll always be grateful for that. Chuck fans have a sort of notoriety for recommending the show ad nauseum. It never gained relatively many viewers, but the ones who were there stuck with it and were passionate about it.

Well, we had a good reason for not getting earthbound, most of us were kids at the time, which doesn't leave us with lots of money, In fact, a lot of us (myself included) were fetuses, and thus lacking in the sentience department.
As for any of us who had spending money at the time, yeah, it totally was your fault that we never got Mother 3.

As for scott pilgrim. Well I'll have to refer to other comic movies for this.
Now, let's reference Marvel here, even if you've never read one of their comics, you know what to expect, they're culturally relevant after all.

Scott Pilgrim VS The World on the other hand had two possible audiences
1)people who had no idea what it was, and so had no reason to see the movie.
OR
2)people who read the same story in comic format, and so had no reason to see the movie.

The problem was, not many people had any idea who Scott was unless they already read the comic.

Unfortunately, fame is cyclical, so we'll mostly only be getting comic movies from the big two.
That is, unless some independent artist strikes gold again.

Anyhow that's my $0.02

I didn't even know what Scott Pilgrim was when I went to go see it.

Now I'm considering buying Xenoblade Chronicles....though I'm not quite sure what it is.

I was too young for earthbound when it came out.
I went a saw Scott Pilgram and Kickass I just don't get what is wrong with some people. I know the outside is scary and has the burning sunlight but movies aare on at night. GO SEE THEM

Also horrible boss was hilarious but is not a sequal type movie, all they can do is remake it like Hangover 2.

The_root_of_all_evil:
image

The Milkman thinks there's something else you missed out on.

Indeed, Psychonauts was the first thing that came to my head regarding fans not coming out for support. I didn't buy Psychonauts until about a year or two after its release, despite being a fan of Grim Fandango, and I deeply regret it.

Really, really sorry Double Fine.

Regarding Scott Pigrim, or whatever it's called, isn't it quite reasonable why geeks didn't go to the cinema to see it? Because many outcasts and geeks don't go the cinema. Many of the people interested in that film are the kinds of people who'd have to watch it by themselves. And we all know that watching a film on the big screen by yourself is somewhat embarrassing... so people waited for it to come out on DVD instead.

Rebellious_Gate:

On the Xenoblade Chronicles front. I won't be buying it either, but I live in the U.K. and had access without the begging. So my abstaining has no effect on the overall success of Operation Rainfall. None of you can call me a bad gamer.

Not sure why people in the states are interested in Xenoblade Chronicles. It's a really, really mediocre JRPG. They'd be better off petitioning to play a great game instead.

Didn't Scott Plgrim do well on DVD/Blu-ray? Because I know a lot of people (who aren't exactly gamers) who have seen the film. In fact, I think I read something about it being one of the Top 10 best-selling DVDs on Amazon in the UK in the week after release. So yeah, I'd say EarthBound (even though half the reason for it's failure in the USA seemed to be it's godawful advertising campaign).

Totally just played through Earthbound again last week, I will always to this day thank my 12 year old self for buying such an awesome game.

Scott Pilgrim was terrible, though. That probably had a lot to do with the poor sales.

UNHchabo:

esperandote:
I didn't like Scott Pilgrim, I thought it wasn't much more than gamers fan services.

Yeah, Scott Pilgrim seemed to me to be the same kind of pandering to geek culture as The Big Bang Theory. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's what it looked like to me.

Now see, I disagree with both those statements. I'm not that much of a gamer and understood very few of the references it was making. I still Scott Pilgrim as more than just a "gamer's fanservice" IMHO, it had a pretty original story with great characters and great humor. The references are just part of the style and it wasn't distracting at all.

Also, while I'm not a bib fan of Big Bang Theory(the only parts I find interesting are the ones with Sheldon), I still don't see where the idea that it's some huge Shout-Out-fest comes from. I only ever hear 1 or 2 references in each episodes, and they're usually so mainstream a non-gamer would get them.

theheroofaction:

Scott Pilgrim VS The World on the other hand had two possible audiences
1)people who had no idea what it was, and so had no reason to see the movie.
OR
2)people who read the same story in comic format, and so had no reason to see the movie.

The problem was, not many people had any idea who Scott was unless they already read the comic.

They could have seen the movie to learn about him. You don't go to every movie knowing who the characters are.

uneek:
snip

He has raised a dead thread, Surely he is the forum messiah.

Anyhow, whilst you do have a point,it still leaves the movie with a much smaller audience than if Scott Pilgrim was more well known.

theheroofaction:

uneek:
snip

He has raised a dead thread, Surely he is the forum messiah.

Anyhow, whilst you do have a point,it still leaves the movie with a much smaller audience than if Scott Pilgrim was more well known.

The last reply was April. I didn't think it was that old. This isn't something I could get banned for, right?

Also, Agreed.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here