How To Talk To A Critic (Assuming You Want To)

 Pages PREV 1 2
 

370999:

SpiderJerusalem:
I like the part where Bob complains about people calling out hypocrisy, then follows it up with "don't assume things, you aren't mind readers", while at the same time his (numerous) videos on how there's a "conspiracy" on "certain types" of movies that only are made with a "certain thing in mind" and for only a certain group of people for only so forth and so forth.

Or is all this so far in the past and in the internets that it doesn't count?

Remember these rules are for us, or rather people who disagree with Bob and other critics he likes. Not him. Remember he did that little snipe at Redlettermedia?

Sorry to but into a conversation that doesn't involve me, but when did Bob take a snipe at Redlettermedia? I'm curious.

bdcjacko:

Zachary Amaranth:

Reactions to entertainment - yes, even among professionals - have a tremendous amount to do with context. As such, giving (for example) one film or game low marks for being too violent while praising the violence of another, unrelated film or game is not in and of itself hypocrisy.

I get this a lot for my (apparent) contradictory takes on music.

'Course, I'm not a critic and it's not my job, but I can sort of empathise.

While I try my best to remain above blatant trolling, there really is no more irritating thing than to click into a disagreement post and find A.) "In this you said X but over here you said Y" as the content and B.) that the "Y" example is citing a statement made so long ago even I don't precisely recall making it.

OMG! People can evolve!

It's a weird and shocking revelation to some.

But for some reason, this often takes the form of the fan in question concluding that the critic in question didn't mention this or that detail because they didn't know about it, and winds up phrased as, "I can't believe he/she didn't..." or "How could you have ignored ...", which doesn't really help anyone.

It does, however, make the accuser feel both better and validated. I think that's the main reason it's done. The "you think you're so smart" school of argument.

I honestly don't know how some people stay in the business, when their work is going to be subjected this kind of make-believe scrutiny devaluing them at every turn.

Spoken like a true Critic apologist!

...Just kidding. Really.

1) First much? No, I kid.

2)Only Pokemon can evolve, not people.

3) Yeah, that part about "I can't believe you forget to mnetion X" really grinds my gears. Even worse is when there are like 20 straight posts on forums mentioning the same thing. That whole "I'm not going to read anyone else's post before I get my tired opinion across" mentaility needs to end.

3) Once posts get beyond several pages, you have to start weighing the amount of time it takes to sift through all the crap just to determine whether or not someone may have made a vaguely similar point vs the amount of time it takes to just post something. I'd argue that meta-posts complaining about everything except the actual content of another post are substantially more useless.

There's no point in posting, for example, to say that someone else already made a point, because *no one cares*.

I get the first part about hypocrisy, but I think I may caveat that one.

A reviewer should have a consistent opinion, and if not he should explain why that opinion is not consistent with what he/she normally believes. I get that peoples opinions on things tend to change over the course of time, but a reviewer should not radically change opinions on games from game to game.

A good example of this is when Jim Sterling reviewed the 3ds version of Mario Kart, he complained that the mario kart franchise hasn't really changed all that much since it's inception and that this new title didn't really add anything to the franchise. It received a lower score as a result.

Yet earlier that year he gave Modern Warfare 3 higher marks. Even though MW3 hasn't really changed anything from the formula of the original. So now it's ok for one series to not change a whole lot each year, but it's not ok for Mario Kart to do it?

I get that sometimes people don't like games, that's cool; Hell, I don't even like either of those games all that much. It's completely hypocritical to criticize and mark down one title for something and then completely ignore the same mistake in another title.

This article was a bit too elitist for my taste...

Lo, I have won the argument that never existed.

RvLeshrac:

bdcjacko:

1) First much? No, I kid.

2)Only Pokemon can evolve, not people.

3) Yeah, that part about "I can't believe you forget to mnetion X" really grinds my gears. Even worse is when there are like 20 straight posts on forums mentioning the same thing. That whole "I'm not going to read anyone else's post before I get my tired opinion across" mentaility needs to end.

3) Once posts get beyond several pages, you have to start weighing the amount of time it takes to sift through all the crap just to determine whether or not someone may have made a vaguely similar point vs the amount of time it takes to just post something. I'd argue that meta-posts complaining about everything except the actual content of another post are substantially more useless.

There's no point in posting, for example, to say that someone else already made a point, because *no one cares*.

I would argue that 90% of the time, the larger the comment thread, the greater the chance is you are just repeating what 10 others said already. And rarely does someone add a new idea when it comes to a "Hey you forgot to mention X."

That being said, if I haven't made a comment in a thread before it reaches 3 pages, I tend not to reply.

Shjade:
[quote="OtherSideofSky" post="6.343467.13813796"]
More traffic is more traffic, right? Hhhh.

Honestly I think Bob makes these type of attack comments to generate more views and most posts on a video, then he gets upset about comments written about him. its rather like having your cake and eating it too. I find it bit funny we now have rules to disagree with him, a few seem to be cover my ass rules.

Now I can't be sure he makes insulating comments to generate more posts or not but their will be consequences for his actions. I don't understand why he can't be happy with giving his view point and supporting why he don't like a film, but feels he needs to continue by insulting the people who like the that participial film. I should not be calling Movie Bob stupid for liking Scott pilgrim vs the world, Nor should I be slamming the nerd/geek community that were suckered in by sucker punch just because of pretty visuals, cause honestly the film was really boring somehow despite all the action.

My biggest issue of why it was boring because was little feeling of risk when they were in the fantasy reality. The matrix the body can't live without the mind, and if you fail in Inception you are stuck in a kind of Limbo forever. In Sucker punch the girls just walk though everything with out there being any feeling of tension or risk.

Anyway.. I think you get the idea.

LobsterFeng:

370999:

SpiderJerusalem:
I like the part where Bob complains about people calling out hypocrisy, then follows it up with "don't assume things, you aren't mind readers", while at the same time his (numerous) videos on how there's a "conspiracy" on "certain types" of movies that only are made with a "certain thing in mind" and for only a certain group of people for only so forth and so forth.

Or is all this so far in the past and in the internets that it doesn't count?

Remember these rules are for us, or rather people who disagree with Bob and other critics he likes. Not him. Remember he did that little snipe at Redlettermedia?

Sorry to but into a conversation that doesn't involve me, but when did Bob take a snipe at Redlettermedia? I'm curious.

Sorry wasn't paying too much attention to my inbox. It's at the end of the Red tails review, in regards to people arguing with the points that Plinket made over the star wars films.

Ah yes. The guy that threw around petty insults to everyone that likes Fast and the Furious movies, the guy that keeps calling everyone with a different opinion than his a douchebag is now giving etiquette advice.

Excuse me while I laugh myself silly.

Your first point reminded me of when Ebert was attacked for hating the remake of "The Hills Have Eyes" but enjoying "The Devil's Rejects". While I personally enjoyed both flicks, it was really shameful how people lambasted the fellow for his opinions, especially since he had a strong basis for 'em.

D'aww. MovieBob is trying to justify his inconsistencies. How adorable.

Edit: Addendum; I still remember the "Movie made by douchebags FOR douchebags" when referring to the Fast and Furious movies. That killed most of his credibility, though I still watch his video's for their humor... I really don't value his opinion anymore.
Making fun of movies is one thing, but insulting US for enjoying what we do, is another thing entirely.
ZP makes fun of games, and occasional jabs the fanbase of games, but he never -insults- us for enjoying some things.

AvauntVanguard:
ZP makes fun of games, and occasional jabs the fanbase of games, but he never -insults- us for enjoying some things.

Yes he does. Often. Way more than MovieBob does. At least MovieBob has never accused us of wanting to nail our cousins* and in one of Yahtzee's latest videos he actually told people that their opinion was wrong.

I'm not saying Bob is perfect, but I do think it's a little ridiculous to act like Yahtzee never insults his viewers either (some people may say "Well Yahtzee does it for humor while MovieBob probably means it." to which case I address this very article "You're not a mind reader.")

*As far as I know, I haven't watched every episode of Escape to the Movies and I don't watch Game Overthinker.

This post brought to you by: necessarily pathrdb

Wow.

After reading that article I was expecting the comments section to be filled with "We're with you Bob!!!"s and "Yeah, those guys are assholes, you tell 'em!"s. Needless to say I'm pleasantly surprised. My opinion of the Escapist community has risen somewhat.

Everything else I have to say has already been said in this thread.

Also: I just know that this thread is slowly going to make we stop wanting to watch Moviebob's videos, it happened with the Yogscast, it happened with Totalbiscuit, it happened with Naruto and it happened with Final Fantasy 10/10-2/12/13. I read one good, logical thread criticizing something I like and then I gradually start despising it. Damn you guise.

the title made me think this might be funny. I was hoping for some self-reflection into the culture. What I got was told how treat an unknown "critic" on the internet... All my personal feelings on critics are concisely summed in Orson Welles' F for Fake. Basically they're all way too self assured in a business where there are no absolutes. I look at them as mere entertainment and sometimes as well informed fools but fools none the less.

I'm sorry, but I just can't take some 30 year old that can't grow up and get over high school seriously. Because everyone and anyone who plays a FPS is some meathead jock dick. Call me crazy, but I can perfectly understand why someone would want to shove Bob in a locker after giving him a tittie twister.

Just like I can't take someone seriously who wants to judge movies but sticks his fingers in his ears when nearly everyone tells him his own story material is garbage.

Fuck, that's the same guy.

 Pages PREV 1 2

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Registered for a free account here