The Big Picture: Broken Biz

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Broken Biz

The word "independent" does not mean what you think it means.

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Coupon!!!! The movie

//this is very applicable to the video. Trust me.

I find the idea of Twinkie The Kid: the movie strangely intriguing.

I was kinda hoping you'd tackle the news about Before Watchmen and Alan Moore's reaction but this was nether the less a good episode, very informative.

Here's one thing they're actually "independent" of: reality.

Interesting. I wonder just how much we could find out if the business of movie profit was exposed to the public. Perhaps some loopholes that ensure a guaranteed bomb like Candy Land won't come back to bite the investors because the money was funneled in through various subsidiary micro-studios that the big studios keep around to peddle independent films and cheap schlock they don't want anyone to know they produce. Just a theory.

But Bob, if you have a bad episode of The Big Picture, you're not allowed to fire Susan Arendt. I think she out-ranks you, at least on this website.

I'm still personally upset and mystified that back in 2009/2010, The Hurt Locker, yet another overly-dramatized movie about the Iraq War won the Best Picture Oscar over Avatar, a well designed, well executed, and most will admit, paint-by-numbers plot and story. However, it was the movie that showed how 3D can be done right, instead of the cheap crap that keeps squirting out of Hollywood.

'Preciate the episode, I enjoyed it. With my lack of knowledge of cinema, I didn't realize that the major players had created subsidiaries that could technically call themselves "Independent".

Also:

DVS BSTrD:
Here's one thing they're actually "independent" of: reality.

Erm, what?

Finally:

Ne1butme:
Coupon!!!! The movie

"I dunno what happened guys, there was massive awareness of Coupons and it had all of the special effects. Why did it fail?"

Candy Land... The Movie... With Adam Sandler... yup... time to dust off the sniper rifle and pay a visit to Hollywood. Just as well they didn't say Jim Carrey, that'd be justifiable grounds for a tactical nuclear first strike.

Good job Bob. And yeah I can tell you as an Industry insider that there's one cost that is almost never counted in the development cost of a new product movie or otherwise. The cost of promotion. Seriously. All those adverts, posters, bill boards, and what have yous you're bombarded with... yeah those aren't usually included in the movie's cost and trust me it costs. There are quite a few notable movies out there that had promo costs that matched or in some cases exceeded the production cost. There's also teh Distribution cost.

So we get crappier movies as a result and as a result more and more people have one more reason to opt for... we'll wait for the DVD/Cable Release.

In other words, Hollywood sucks.

Oh man, Bob continues with the Fox News mentality. While the essential story is relatively true, the way and the how Bob tells it is so skewed, so full of spiteful, angry and misguided crap that the comparison with him and that certain "news" agency is becoming more and more accurate by the day.

There's a Strong Bad episode where he discusses the difference between independent films and indie films. It's worth a watch if anyone is interested.

http://www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail203.html

It's funny because it's true.

"Indie films all have big Hollywod actors in it, but they're all working "for scale" which I can only assume is a solid gold scale, perfectly balanced with gold bricks."

Don't let the mention of money and shady accounting practices discourage you from pursuing your Hollywood dream. Just remember the phrase you're looking for is %of Net, not %of Gross. I would rather take .1% of net profits for a movie than 50% of gross profits on a movie. Yeah, it sounds odd as hell, but it's the only way to make sure you actually get money.

CronoT:
I'm still personally upset and mystified that back in 2009/2010, The Hurt Locker, yet another overly-dramatized movie about the Iraq War won the Best Picture Oscar over Avatar, a well designed, well executed, and most will admit, paint-by-numbers plot and story. However, it was the movie that showed how 3D can be done right, instead of the cheap crap that keeps squirting out of Hollywood.

Simple. It was the first high-profile film ostensibly about the Iraq War that had absolutely nothing to say about the Iraq War. The same story could have been about US soldiers in Vietnam ca. 1969, or Israeli soldiers in Lebanon ca. 1984, or UN peacekeepers in Bosnia ca. 1994, and only superficial changes would have been required.

For what it's worth, I liked the Hurt Locker for the tense thriller that it was, but it was a general commentary on the lives of soldiers in a war zone, with a focus on EOD personnel, not specifically the Iraq War. It doesn't glamourize war, but neither does it villify it. It doesn't condone the occuption, but neither does it condemn it. It portrays soldiers as normal human beings, neither superheroes nor monsters. A smart move overall, as no political feathers of any colour were ruffled in the process, so the Academy could recognize an "Iraq War film" without having to take a political stance on a divisive issue.

Sticking it to Cameron was probably a bonus.

vxicepickxv:
Don't let the mention of money and shady accounting practices discourage you from pursuing your Hollywood dream. Just remember the phrase you're looking for is %of Net, not %of Gross. I would rather take .1% of net profits for a movie than 50% of gross profits on a movie. Yeah, it sounds odd as hell, but it's the only way to make sure you actually get money.

I think you have that backwards. Net is after expenses. Gross is before expenses.

This whole shit about making movies, games or music based on demographics charts needs to end.

This is what causes the disconnect between what CEOs think people will buy and what consumers will actually want. They keep thinking that if they make things based off of demographics charts, they'll sell better. When what they should be doing is looking for the next experience that really needs to be told.

Another interesting and enjoyable episode.
I do now have a powerful urge to go watch Tank Girl again, so thanks for that.

BigTuk:
Candy Land... The Movie... With Adam Sandler...

As long is it's directed by Micheal Bay, I'll go see it.

OT: Thank you Bob! It's good to know just how much of a retarded clusterfuck modern Hollywood actually is...

I wonder if there will be some kind of collapse.

BigTuk:
Candy Land... The Movie... With Adam Sandler... yup... time to dust off the sniper rifle and pay a visit to Hollywood. Just as well they didn't say Jim Carrey, that'd be justifiable grounds for a tactical nuclear first strike.

How dare you, sir?! Jim Carrey is freaking Marlon Brando compared to Adam Sandler.

OT: Studio execs only care about opening weekend totals? I didn't know that, I thought that lifetime gross was the go-to metric.

And speaking of indie movies, some examples would be useful. Just because a movie is released by a major studio doesn't mean they funded its production. Were Slumdog Millionaire and Juno funded by Fox, or did they just pick it up after it was done?

I WOULD have been interested in Candy Land the movie... if Adam Sandler didn't end up starring in it. >:(

Ya know, I'm kinda waiting to see what they can accomplish with Battleship and Candy Land. They sound like disappointing stupid funny to me. I kinda wish videogames took that risk. I don't want to play a digital board game of Chutes and Ladders. I want to play a video game where the story and premise is fully fleshed out and revolves around chutes and ladders. I'd pay $10 for it.

Let me tell you the story about a little movie called "Hardwired" that most of you have probably seen.

What? Never heard of it? Of course you have. It starred Will Smith, and Alan Tudyk played all the robots.

You say that movie's called I, Robot? You're wrong. An I, Robot movie has never been made. In I, Robot, Earth has a ban on robots, and only the Spacers have robots, so there aren't in robots in mid-21st century Chicago. You watched the movie Hardwired that was reskinned with superficial Asimov trappings, just like how Super Mario Bros. 2 is actually Doki Doki Panic.

(You can read about how this happened at Screenwriter's Utopia.)

What I like about this show is that sometimes I have no idea what the next episode will be about. Can't wait for next episode.

So the reason Hollywood has such a tough time making movies that don't suck is because they're mired in archiac business and accounting practices? In addition to just not understanding how to make a good film? What a beuracratic nightmare. The government would be proud.

My view is that we're going to see a lot more legitimate "independent" films and serialized programming, owing to the advent of digital distribution. Sites like Blip.tv have made it easy for a low budgit production to gain a wide audience. Not necessarily a huge audience, but one that hopefully can cover their production costs. Which in the end is the real mark of success. If one guy produced an expensive blockbuster that topped the charts on opening, but didn't begin to cover his costs, he did worse than the guy with a low budgit who managed to reach a great enough audience as to be in the black.

It makes a sad amount of sense that a movie consistently sitting at #2 for months would be considered a failure. After all, Hollywood is in the country in which the most successful NFL team of the early 90s is regarded as a failure and a joke because "they lost four straight championship games". Ignored in that is the fact that they went to four straight championship games, against several different opponents. But no, because they weren't #1, they suck. Just like NASCAR changed its rules after a driver won the championship without ever winning a race, just finishing near the top in all of them.

Sadly, the culture in the USA is all about finishing first, or else you're nothing. No wonder we have the cinematic disasters that we do.

.. Candy Land is going to be a movie? And Adam Sandler is going to be the main star of this movie? ... Not to judge, but how would they pull off such a movie? I really can't see a plot or good method to make this movie great but seems interesting... sort of .. sorry.

OT: Bob's got a point. The business aka Hollywood focuses to much on what the population used to like a lot or are aware of. They don't consider the fact people like surprises, seeing new things or get engaged with stories that they have a lot to experience from despite just watching the movie period.

These graphs and charts come off as proof to them about success but really it's the fact people behind those successes made it so it became big. You got to start off with something fresh and spent a load of time into to really stand out (hopefully).

I'd take a twinky movie over a kandy land movie any day.

I went into this episode expecting Bob to damn the movie-going community for dissing Scott Pilgrim again. I was sadly disappointed, but it was a good episode nontheless.

Also, this episode gave me all the justification I needed for hating Tim Burton. That creepy hack.

I work for a site that's trying to make judging how profitable a movie is easier. It's a huge undertaking.

You know reading this thread makes me wonder if I've entered an alternate universe where good films aren't made. I mean yes Candy Land and Battleships are being made, and that's an awful idea but I don't see how you can really complain when this year we're getting Prometheus, The Avengers, A Dark Knight sequel, The Hobbit, another Tarantino movie, a new Pixar film, John Carter and I'm sure some surprise hits as well.

Yesn Hollywood is being run badly by a group of people who have only a vague understanding of the real world and it's true that we could probably be getting much more great films but also we could easily be getting much less becuase there is a steady stream of brilliant films coming out each year. Also we live in an age of DVDs, Netflix and LoveFilm, if you're really that desperate for great films it's never been easier to get ones from past nine decades of cinema.

I agree with Bob when it comes to the term Blockbuster...
I remember the old days when a film had to gross 10 time what it took to make it; NOW if your film brings in 3 time they toss you that tittle regardless if it was good or not.

IE: Avatar 600+ G's COST divided by 1.8 B GROSS = 2 and change maybe 3.
Blair Witch 60 G's COST divided by 600+ M GROSS = 10 and more.

Yet BOTH are given the title of BLOCKBUSTER... Doesn't seem fair, does it?

Bluecho:
So the reason Hollywood has such a tough time making movies that don't suck is because they're mired in archiac [sic] business and accounting practices?

It's not archaic business and accounting practices, it's fraudulent business and accounting practices. Where the studios aren't actually keeping three or more copies of the books, they play an elaborate shell game where revenues are siphoned off from the production company, leaving it with nothing but liabilities. Surprise! The film made no profits; no profit-sharing for you, loser.

The comparatively well-known example of Peter Jackson being screwed over LoTR is just the tip of one of many icebergs. Have a look at the lawsuit Buchwald v. Paramount.

What a beuracratic nightmare. The government would be proud.

The government shouldn't be proud; the government should be investigating.

I love that you put that Stand and Deliver image at the end. Hilarious.

As far as I'm concerned, Hollywood can't get enough shit for how exploitative and corrupt it is in its business practices. Good on you, Bob.

Twinky movie? Im down!

*Sigh* Stupid Hollywood. When will they learn that basing a movie on something that already exists is not the way to go? ...And yet, some people will still go to see a movie based on "Battleship"... *Double Sigh*

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