Roleplaying The Old Republic

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Waffle_Man:
Impossible to care? It's obvious that you haven't witnessed the awesomeness of Sir Bearington!

The laughing, it was very much out loud.

The only MMO I've played is Star Trek Online, and I don't feel the need to come up with a reason why my Vulcan science specialist has pink hair. In fact her bio reads something like "She enrolled in Starfleet twice by mistake, and now she's TWO SCIENTISTS".

In Skyrim on the other hand I do play something of a role. Nothing to do with my stats or appearance, just my behaviour. Sometimes when I'm killing low level NPCs I'll apologise to them, or pretend to be oblivious to what's going on, like I just decapitated someone with my flaming electrified war axe completely by accident.

I also get bored easily. When people are talking, I am walking along tables kicking their food onto the floor. I am shooting fireballs at walls to demonstrate to the town guards that stone doesn't burn. I have over 600 lockpicks and never miss the opportunity to pick up or buy more of them, just in case. I pick up everything in a store that's sitting around and not explicitly maked as "steal' instead of 'take' and then sell it back to the shopkeeper. When burglarising stores for the thieves guild I empty their strongboxes and leave behind a Deathbell flower as my signature.

In short, my character in Skyrim is a massive douche. I couldn't say for sure if I'm roleplaying or not. I reckon if I were a Dragonborn/Master Thief/Master Assassin/Archmage/Werewolf in real life I'd be a massive dick to people here, too.

Im sorry but what Yhatzee said is a load of rubbish. Most pnp games take place in pre existing universes with pre existing rules. Even in DnD games with a homebrew campaign setting often share loads of conventions with other DnD games.

I can describe a situation from a PnP game that could happen in real life and you would understand all the rules of that situation. A bank robbery is a bank robbery a gunfight is a gunfight. If im at a party in a PnP RPG then im expected to follow social etiquette as befits the situation and thus when I explain that one of my players decided to go nuts and blow up half the room you know thats not a normal situation for a party.

Yhatzees examples are just flawed, adding a guy in a tux on a magic carpet for no reason makes no sense. If he feels it makes a story better surely his own novel should start every sequence with "All the characters were doing it wearing black ties on a magic carpet." The logic is absurd. Can he not enjoy any novel because it was just something that a guy decided on from his mind? Are films invalid because the scriptwriters and the actors decided on what happened out of all infinite possibilities instead of asking the viewer what they wanted to do? Of course not but apparently PnP RPGs occupy a special place in storytelling of being completely uninteresting.

The worst part was when he then went on to describe the backstory to a starwars character I could not give a shit about because I know that at any point the game could force him to have to change his character background in order to make it compatible with the preprogrammed game dialogue. Since his character belongs to the game and not him I dont give a toss whatever rubbish he makes up for him especially when I know that hes going to go through the exact same experiances in the universe as thousands of other characters making his actions pointless.

Kaihlik

Yahtzee you are so right. My favorite thing about my favorite MMORPG is the people I meet and the story i subconsciously develop for my own character. I don't join a particular guild because of how many raids they make a day. Its because I like to talk to the other actives while I play. Which brings me to grinding in MMORPGs. A lot of people disparage the idea of "grinding" but I encourage it because it gives you an opportunity to be active within a guild. If you are sick of grinding then good; go do whatever your guild mates are doing instead of being anti social. Its like staying home versus going out. Both have pros and cons but in the end we are creatures of socialization and need to be connected to each other. Sometimes its good to just get involved and be apart of other people's things.

ZeroMachine:
Every now and then something comes along and reminds me as to why I extremely dislike Ol' Ben here as a person.

This is one of those things.

But at least something good came out of it:

Waffle_Man:
Impossible to care? It's obvious that you haven't witnessed the awesomeness of Sir Bearington!

I may just have to do that in a game at least once...

why what is it about him you dont like?

Sixcess:
The funny/sad thing about this article is that you could easily believe it was written about a single player RPG.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
When I'm playing an RPG like Skyrim or Old Republic

Very easily.

what do you mean by that? that TOR is essentially a singleplayer RPG dressed up as an MMO?

Vault101:

ZeroMachine:
Every now and then something comes along and reminds me as to why I extremely dislike Ol' Ben here as a person.

This is one of those things.

But at least something good came out of it:

Waffle_Man:
Impossible to care? It's obvious that you haven't witnessed the awesomeness of Sir Bearington!

I may just have to do that in a game at least once...

why what is it about him you dont like?

Sixcess:
The funny/sad thing about this article is that you could easily believe it was written about a single player RPG.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
When I'm playing an RPG like Skyrim or Old Republic

Very easily.

what do you mean by that? that TOR is essentially a singleplayer RPG dressed up as an MMO?

"I feel this way, therefore it is true."

He presents his articles in a pretentious way, ignoring the fact that although HE doesn't care about such things, thousands if not millions do.

That, and some other things, but I honestly don't feel like listing them. I may get harsh, and I don't feel like calling upon the wrath of the ModGods.

Also, to answer your question to Sixcess, SKYRIM. He's talking about MMOs, and he mentioned SKYRIM.

I found myself connecting with the Smuggler class as well. I rolled a build of each character class and ran them all up to advanced class status. The Bounty Hunter and Smuggler were easiest to RP for me. They seemed like the most grounded and easiest to relate to. The more military characters like the Republic Soldier and the Imperial (whatever) I couldn't relate to and my Force characters I just played to type (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Vader, and Palpatine respectively).

I think of all the SWTOR gaming I've done so far, the Smuggler has been the most entertaining. He afforded me the ability to really role play and therefore left me feeling more connected, as Yahtzee said. All the classes are fun of course, but the Smuggler seems the one that can really swing Light, Dark, a mix of each, whatever you want to make of him and it all fits.

The_root_of_all_evil:

Proper roleplay is, like you danced around in the article, the interaction with others. Your facepipe only makes any interest in the interest it gets with others.

But that's not necessarily what he's talking about - he's referring to your roleplay experience as a whole. Obviously when your interacting with others our sort of creating a join story, one which is applicable to all parties.

When your creating a backstory / recounting previous events etc it' solo, there is no interaction and for a group - very little relevance. It's a personal thing.

I mean not of my role play chars have back stories (not pen ad paper ones - i dont play anything like that) - but their personal to me because only I went through the creation process of them I couldn't give a shit about another jackasses backstory cos it isn't my character.

Of course we naturally don't care about what other people have to say about themselves. That goes without saying and it applies to a lot more than the things you listed. We have to train ourselves and work hard at being truly interested in the things other people say, especially when they are talking about things that really are only interesting to them, but that's part of being a better person and it leads to closer friendships and relationships. Read a book by Dale Carnegie all this shit is in there.

Also, maybe this was your point but my first reaction was that this article was one of the most asinine things I've read in a long while (I know its ironic OK? but it actually proves my point, because no one would call me one of those better people)

It's so true about tabletop RPG characters... They share many similarities with buttholes, in that the only one's I could ever care about are mine and my girlfriends, and even then only under fairly specific circumstance.

Then again (it may just be the people I play with) all the characters I have ever been lectured about have always been defined by the ludicrous events that the GM let them get away with rather than the rich and interesting backstory that was behind it. No-one I know except me in my group EVER came up with more than a handwave of a story for them and that's what murdered the roleplaying experience. The players almost always seem to play every character in the same cynical opportunistic style (because that's what always gets you the best gear) which rendered any concept of moral choice or individuality completely moot. It turns their tales of their characters into a litany of 'So we killed that guy and took his stuff' rather than 'I had to wrestle with my ethical code, and I am still haunted by the decision'.

I am ok with being talked at about that stuff, because even though its not life changing, its a window into a friends mind and that's interesting enough, assuming I actually like the guy who's lecturing me.

But dear god, the sheer number of people who talk about killing their gods to consume their essence for no reason other than it comes with good powers and xp... That's just terrible. Yeah yeah the rules technically allow that crap, but its practically become everyday in D&D to slay the gods. The players want to do it because its a cheat to ultimate power. They take the dark past flaw to get an extra 2 points of strength and hope the GM never remembers to do anything with it.

Essentially what I'm saying here kids is that if you are going to lecture someone about your character, make them a real character, and actually get into the roll. Talking about memorable sequences of dice rolls is the most boring thing ever. Talking about a long self imposed exile to expunge the shame of failing to protect your family, only to discover that your formally infant son has been adopted by the dark prince you have to kill to save the world, and are now tortured with the knowledge that saving the world will again subject your son to the pain of having his family torn apart... That cool. I'm totally in to that. I want to play in that game. I'm already thinking up my character. Maybe a bard who can sing a melancholy ballad about the situation.

Waffle_Man:
Impossible to care? It's obvious that you haven't witnessed the awesomeness of Sir Bearington!

noooooooooooooooooo
image is brokded for me!!!!

In some ways I agree but others I disagree. Around a group of gamers I usually find they are interested in the latest things that have happened to my game character or PnP character and vice-versa for myself.

A video game example was I had a friend who was interested in Skyrim so I showed it to him. I then picked a fight with a dragon and started losing very, very badly. But all was not lost said I, look over yonder there is a nice patch of water from which to hide from the dragon's flame until it gets bored and attacks a giant or something. So off I ran with the dragon on my heels and gradually killing me. Finally I made it to the bank before the water and with a mighty jump propelled myself to the safe waters. Upon landing I found myself knee deep in a very big puddle and a very amused dragon staring down at me (and a friend who was crying with laughter).

A PnP character I had was in a village getting attacked by a necromancer and his zombies. I thought, hmm villagers are dying and they will become zombies to attack our backs. Looks at shed, a lot of small boats there, so I then decided to start tying the corpses to boats to make sure that we wouldn't get eaten.
Unknown to myself at the time we were getting overrun, and eventually 1 of the npc's screams we have to escape down river, he then grabs 1 of the aforementioned boats turns it around and promptly has hit throat ripped out. 1 of the party members asked who was the idiot who tied zombies to boats. I speak up with that guy there pointing to a random recently dead villager.
GM: make a bluff check
Me: <roll:success> Oh thank god no death by irate villagers or party members today.

I'm assuming this whole article was a ploy by Yahtzee to flame LARPers and what-not in to saying "but MY character is interesting" and proceed to tell us all about it. (Some examples but not many).

Half the issue is personality. Personality is not an independent trait that exists in a vacuum. It only occurs in context. As Yahztee said, an unlimited context in your mind means there's no personality to whatever character you create. As people have said above, once you start setting down a universe with rules and context, other people become more interested.

I find hearing about other people's characters in much the same way I hate hearing about any experience second-hand. You had to be there. Unless someone is a good story teller, and knows how to spin an anecdote, any story about some event you weren't privy to is going to come off as boring. If it's a story about the real world, at least it has some relevance to everyone. If it's fantasy then it hasn't even got that.

Sentox6:

Marik Bentusi:
I'm confused.

Whether you care about a Pen & Paper character depends on the same factors as caring for any other type of fictional character. If the storyteller can't convey his story well enough to immerse you, that's a problem with the narrator, not the thing he's talking about.

That's exactly it, though. When we discuss our characters from a game like Skyrim or Mass Effect, that's a tremendous amount of contextual experience instantly available. That character is immediately framed by a universe we care about, and scenarios and NPCs we're familiar with. This context gives us a reason to care about the decisions and behaviours of that character.

With a pen-and-paper character, as Yahtzee says, the possibilities are infinite. Effectively there's no frame of reference and trying to resolve one to contextualise that character is an insurmountable task, for the most part.

YMMV

But if I tell my friend who has never played a game of Skyrim or Mass Effect, they won't have the context either.

From what I could gather, Pen & Paper campaigns have returning settings as well. The DM can abstract them, but for convenience they are usually close to modules people will recognize. People know the world of magic and cyberpunk of Shadowrun, they know the generic fantasy settings from Tolkien's backyard, heck, a ton of people try to combine existing gameplay with a setting and figure out what stats Krogan should have.

ischmalud:

Waffle_Man:
Impossible to care? It's obvious that you haven't witnessed the awesomeness of Sir Bearington!

noooooooooooooooooo
image is brokded for me!!!!

Have a reupload:

Well, you know I was right with this article up until the notion came forth that having people talk about their in game chars other people might find interesting.

Honestly there is nothing more tedious to me than listening to listen to someone drone on and on and on about what they did with their avatar. Even if its a game I play.

I knew a guy who I worked with, who would drone on endlessly about his WoW toon, and how I should subscribe and join his server. I had played WoW before but I had nothing major in my backlog at the time so I figured I could kill some time. It did not take me long to realize that all he wanted to do was craft someone so he could have someone else to talk about his gear configurations, his PVP set, his tier 3 and various different stuff. Even playing the game I had no ambition to hear about his gear, or what raid he ran or any of that stuff, because it had no bearing on my personal experience. To me listening to him drone on endlessly about how awesome his druid was was such a grating experience. Basically the same sort of experience described when discussing pen and paper rpgs.

The water cooler experience, I sincerely disagree with. Just because you happen to play the same MMO as someone else does not mean your going to be personally interested in what they have to say about the game, unless there is a deeper connection that exists within the game such as being in a static group, same guild, or habitually playing together, and if that connection exists it ceases to be water cooler discussion.

ToR is potentially the same. On some levels you will not have vested interest in the affairs of someone who plays on a different server than you. However, to their credit, ToRs narrative depth and how that narrative plays out in a group context CAN allow you to be able to relate to someone elses experience who you are not directly invested in. I think wow fails to capture that given how much of its content is text based, and thus, contingent on ones imagination. But in TOR having cut scenes and being able to watch events unfold and alter the events depends on who in your group wins the roll lends it more to the same sort of discussion one could have about watching a tv show or movie, and explaining their impression of what happened. Thats simply something you wont be able to capture in text based format.Especially one where events essentially do not vary and cannot be altered.

But none the less. It boils down to the fact that really, no one gives a shit about your innane prattle, regardless of what the subject matter is.

Yahtzee:
it is impossible to give a shit about someone else's pen and paper role playing character

You just got that now?

El Dwarfio:

When your creating a backstory / recounting previous events etc it' solo, there is no interaction and for a group - very little relevance. It's a personal thing.

Then your doing the same thing people do for themselves - you can either stick to the varnished truth - "I once climbed Snowdon"; the unvarnished truth - "I once went up Snowdown with a camping trip" or the total make-up - "I once climbed Everest in my pants". And this can happen with online characters as well.

The first two can still be an interesting story, and I think it's Yahtzee's misanthropy that's holding him back here - he could say "That's sort of like opening a Mana Bar", sit back and be smug.

The latter is definitely godmodding though, it's just you're roleplaying yourself - and that's far worse - and DREADFULLY boring.

But very open to subtle trolling ;)

Impossible to care? Tell that to the Spoony One. His Counter Monkey series were a big hit. I found some of the stories funny, some too long, but still. Now I don't like to hear a 4 hour discussion on another character, and you can have a person who's just not very entertaining to listen to. But still, I could be interested in another character in another campaign, even if I'm not familiar with the setting. I'm amused by PnP role playing games, and as such I can find it entertaining to hear what kind of things others did and how they played. And for instance, I glossed over Yahtzee's backstory just there. I don't play TOR, and don't particularly care about Star wars in general. So yeah, I can understand that people don't like to hear about your character, in any setting. But 'impossible to care'? Not buying it Yahtzee.

Yahtzee's point is completely flawed. He mentions being able to care about characters playing together in the same D&D campaign, but then says that everyone can get in on a good ol' Skyrim discussion.

Well I can't because I didn't play Skyrim. I'm not part of that campaign whether it was pre-defined or not, and if I go over a friend's house and he shows me that he's become the master of every guild and can run around his own little virtual world doing whatever he wants, I still won't care. This goes for Fallout, The Witcher and every other one of those "do anything" type rpg's that usually involve running through endless fields with nothing in them.

I also remember my cousin telling me about a "pro" D&D campaign he was in at some convention. His character got stuck in a white room with no doors and didn't know what to do, so eventually he just fell asleep. He woke up in hell on a floating platform. Again not knowing what to do, he attempted to fly and discovered he somehow could. The way he told the story was more interesting than any Fus Do Rah or knee arrow jokes I've heard. I think Yahtzee is just being jaded.

Vault101:
what do you mean by that? that TOR is essentially a singleplayer RPG dressed up as an MMO?

That was my impression of it, yes. There seems to be a trend in MMOs now to set the world up so that it (superficially at least) revolves around you, the player, in the style of Bioware's other games, or Bethesda's. TOR isn't unique in that - WoW did the same thing with Cataclysm. That's good for those who like it, but for me at least it takes away something of the unique atmosphere of the best MMO worlds.

ZeroMachine:
Also, to answer your question to Sixcess, SKYRIM. He's talking about MMOs, and he mentioned SKYRIM.

Exactly. It seems to be a recurring theme of coverage of SWTOR to discuss it as a mmoRPG, and I think it's telling that in an article about roleplaying the only mention of interacting with other players is in 'water cooler moments', rather than within the actual game itself.

Of course that's quite probably just Yahtzee being Yahtzee.

During general testing I made a female Jedi knight, tried to make her look good, and then gave her a huge burn mark on her face that implied a back story. I tend to give all my role-playing characters scars for the same reason.

Sixcess:

Vault101:
what do you mean by that? that TOR is essentially a singleplayer RPG dressed up as an MMO?

That was my impression of it, yes. There seems to be a trend in MMOs now to set the world up so that it (superficially at least) revolves around you, the player, in the style of Bioware's other games, or Bethesda's. TOR isn't unique in that - WoW did the same thing with Cataclysm. That's good for those who like it, but for me at least it takes away something of the unique atmosphere of the best MMO worlds.

This is my main problem with Biodrones. Why on earth would one pay a monthly fee just to play what is essentially a single-player MMO? (not saying you're one of them, just quoting you for reference)

i read through the article again, checked sir bearington - got the link to work awesome.......
......and on a personal level all i could think of
there is not enough joghurt in the world

thats howmuch i care about other ppl caring about my rgp characters in whichever shape or form they may come

so unite for joghurt ppl its a worthy cause

Oh Ben, by that same token I should not care about what you think, say or write about Old Republic, Skyrim or whatever because I do not play them. Yet I do.

You have completely dismissed table-top RPGs saying that they have no interested audience because they live in players' heads and not in their interlocutor's; the counter-argument you take for valid is that in videogames this is opposite, while in reality it is the same thing but with a much larger user base (an tabletop RPG will have possibly up to 10 players, while Old Republic will have 10 million) same difference.

I should not have cared one iota for Mogworld because it lived in your head and I do not know you from Adam, yet I cared about the things that you have to say because you have established yourself as a person I trust, so I bought it and read it. Why would I not care what another person is telling me about his or her dream, or table top RPG, or a novel they are planning to write? After all, presumably this person I choose to talk is someone real, quite likely a friend or family member, with whom I have taken the time to develop a relationship.

As far as I know, you are probably an electronic platypus who makes videos at the Escapist and has a chip on his shoulder... in other words, you may not be real, yet I do care about what you have to say

Sentox6:

With a pen-and-paper character, as Yahtzee says, the possibilities are infinite. Effectively there's no frame of reference and trying to resolve one to contextualise that character is an insurmountable task, for the most part.

Eh, if you're familiar with D&D, it's pretty easy to hear a story and put it in context.

"So, after the beholder wiped out our last party, all four of us had all decided to make new characters that were level 1 wizards for some reason. We were out of spells for the day, so when the kobalds attacked we all ran and hid in the trees. We probably would have been fine, they had no idea where we were, but then John decided to take out his sling and toss a rock at one of them..."

Anyone who's familiar with the rules of D&D understands what's going on at this point in some detail. And personally, I find stories about pen and paper RPG's much more interesting then anything about what someone imagined their character to be in a video game.

I mean; doesn't anyone around here read order of the stick?

Marik Bentusi:
But if I tell my friend who has never played a game of Skyrim or Mass Effect, they won't have the context either.

Exactly.

Yosarian2:
Eh, if you're familiar with D&D, it's pretty easy to hear a story and put it in context.

"So, after the beholder wiped out our last party, all four of us had all decided to make new characters that were level 1 wizards for some reason. We were out of spells for the day, so when the kobalds attacked we all ran and hid in the trees. We probably would have been fine, they had no idea where we were, but then John decided to take out his sling and toss a rock at one of them..."

Anyone who's familiar with the rules of D&D understands what's going on at this point in some detail.

I would think that for most people, that's a much more generic backdrop than the somewhat more visceral experience they would have playing a game with 3D graphics, voice acting, etc.

For me, I find precious little compelling about a random person's pen-and-paper character because, because without being involved and having a first-hand understanding of how they've constructed their particular interpretation of the universe, it's essentially like having fan-fiction read to me. And if I'm going to be interested, it's going to have to be an extremely compelling narrative.

That being said:

And personally, I find stories about pen and paper RPG's much more interesting then anything about what someone imagined their character to be in a video game.

YMMV.

undeadsuitor:
So..

creating a character with a personality and backstory, using lore from an established and concrete source that everyone can read and get into...on paper is bad.

creating a character with a personality and backstory, using lore from an established and concrete source that everyone can read and get into...in a videogame is good!

O...okay.

Okay, here's my thought on this:

People don't give a shit. If they hold an ounce of shit to give, it isn't going to last long. It doesn't really matter what format or context or anything your character is in.

I tend to play both and have seen written stories. There are pen and paper characters with stories my friends have that I enjoy and others I don't remember 5 minutes later. Using written guidelines allows the pen and paper people to create just about anything to rpg in. I love that open flexibility.

When it comes to games and MMOs, I find it harder to do. The world is made, not imagined. I don't usually care about another players single player game because I don't interact with them at all.

MMOs are the worst. I've tried roleplaying. All the visuals can be copy/pasted and another person can look excatly like you easily. There's so many stories that are the same, so many of the same grinding quests and unless you have a special friend, you'll most likely be trolled for saying anything remotely story based. It's bland, repetitive, and hard to care about what someone else is playing.

The_root_of_all_evil:

El Dwarfio:

When your creating a backstory / recounting previous events etc it' solo, there is no interaction and for a group - very little relevance. It's a personal thing.

Then your doing the same thing people do for themselves - you can either stick to the varnished truth - "I once climbed Snowdon"; the unvarnished truth - "I once went up Snowdown with a camping trip" or the total make-up - "I once climbed Everest in my pants". And this can happen with online characters as well.

The first two can still be an interesting story, and I think it's Yahtzee's misanthropy that's holding him back here - he could say "That's sort of like opening a Mana Bar", sit back and be smug.

The latter is definitely godmodding though, it's just you're roleplaying yourself - and that's far worse - and DREADFULLY boring.

But very open to subtle trolling ;)

What about if I climbed Snowdon and it wasn't on a camping trip? :)

I actually enjoy listening to people talk about DnD games and characters. Mostly stems from the fact that I can't for the life of me play those games (I've tried), yet I've always wanted to. In effect I live vicariously through other peoples stories about them.

Yes! Thankyou!

I was trying to explain this to my friend while we were playing TOR and I'm sure he thought I was a lunatic.

I think the comparison to DnD was a little unfair but your overall point regarding role play is valid.

El Dwarfio:

What about if I climbed Snowdon and it wasn't on a camping trip? :)

I'd suspect a little bit of varnishing there...what went wrong? ;)

Sentox6:

Marik Bentusi:
I'm confused.

Whether you care about a Pen & Paper character depends on the same factors as caring for any other type of fictional character. If the storyteller can't convey his story well enough to immerse you, that's a problem with the narrator, not the thing he's talking about.

That's exactly it, though. When we discuss our characters from a game like Skyrim or Mass Effect, that's a tremendous amount of contextual experience instantly available. That character is immediately framed by a universe we care about, and scenarios and NPCs we're familiar with. This context gives us a reason to care about the decisions and behaviours of that character.

With a pen-and-paper character, as Yahtzee says, the possibilities are infinite. Effectively there's no frame of reference and trying to resolve one to contextualise that character is an insurmountable task, for the most part.

YMMV

There's a teeny-tiny flaw in that logic though: Star wars has a pen and paper RPG too. Now the pen and paper characters in question are framed by a universe we care about. Is it still impossible to care about a pen and paper character?

Sounds to me like you personally just have more interest in video-game RPGs than you do in Pen-and-Paper RPGs. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but attaching all this philosophizing and rationalization to make more meaning of it than actually exists is just pure BS. You are confusing your personal preferences with some objective reality. People in Pen-and-Paper RPG circles share and take interest in each others characters all the time, because they all share a deep interest in Pen-and-Paper RPGs. I would go so far to say that PnP RPG characters are far more interesting(or have the potential to be) than any video game RPG character because the character has fewer limits in comparison.

(Being snide and cynical doesn't make someone intelligent or correct, but it does contribute strongly to their being bitter and miserable.)

Old Republic was shitty Yahtzee, everybody knows that.

Sometimes people tell funny stories in DnD. Sure you can't see it but that doesn't automatically render it useless and boring.

Talk about some generic smuggler you made in a shitty mmo with extremely limiting rules, I won't care. Talk about how your dwarf convinced a shopkeeper to give him all the money because the dwarf was actually half giant... A lot more interesting.

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