No Right Answer: This Generation's "Star Wars" Part 2

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This Generation's "Star Wars" Part 2

A three-way debate? A two-part episode? What is this, sweeps week? It doesn't matter, because it's debate time! Kyle pulls out a wild card with his opinions, while Chris and Dan try to gather their forces. The arguments being made must grow, go on long journeys of discovery, and then end up where they began, but changed. Wow, maybe this generation's Star Wars is this description?

And don't forget, if you don't understand our decisions or want to have more of our material to complete your shrines to us, Mondays feature a new written companion piece titled No Right Explanation. We dare you to make less sense!

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Wouldn't this generations Star Wars be defined by cultural impact rather than financial or critical success or failure of expectations?

A Dan, Kyle and Chris three way? Awesome.

Trying to argue while drinking is one way to try and get a three way point across, or to drown your two opponents.

STAR WARS - I would love them if the first scene in the first episode would be a declaration that the Jedi lost most of their powers or control of the force.

I laugh so much at the attempted drink and get to say the final words. (Not so smart eh?)

Anyway I would have to go with Lord of the Ring as this generation "Star Wars".

Harry Potter is the clear winner of this one. It has created a world for people of all ages to fall in love with, and great characters to identify with.

Lord of the Rings never really held that kind of cultural captivation. We all enjoyed the movies(and books) but it never really got a whole lot bigger than that. The argument that the prequels qualify because it was a social obligation to see them is kind of hurting the argument. People wanted to see the Potter films and read the books and waited in lines at midnight to do both with excitement to see it unfold, not dread to see how much further it would collapse.

canadamus_prime:
Wouldn't this generations Star Wars be defined by cultural impact rather than financial or critical success or failure of expectations?

True, and I think that would make it Lord of the Rings Trilogy. It was having an impact on popular culture before they were even made into movies (The live action ones anyway). And it's also going to have a much better prequel.

I really dont see how you can argue that LotR is "this generation"'s star wars when it's been around for so long.

canadamus_prime:
Wouldn't this generations Star Wars be defined by cultural impact rather than financial or critical success or failure of expectations?

^ Exactly, and that is clearly Harry Potter.

I'm surprised no one chose Halo. That has huge culteral significance. A lot of Halo fans grew up with the franchise and it's still going.

Star Wars is about world building (and incidentally, I thnk the prequels are pretty good about it) it's not about success or fame because Star Wars had those only in a particular way, it's the way people play games and read books about the universe and want to explore more of it that makes it Star Wars.

Lord of the Rings film did no more world building, just retrod the books. Harry Potter is hard for me to judge, I'd say it's more about the characters and the world but the way other people react to it doesn't match up with that, I'd say Diagon Alley an Hogwarts have the same feel as Star Wars.

Star Wars does a lot of world building, but it's never stopped, it's silly to pin something to just the films when so much else surrounds it. I wasn't really alive/aware between the two sets (which is why I can enjoy the prequels more because I have only his world to accept whereas between films fans created a new world) but I'm pretty sure there were always Jedi Academie and Tie Fighters and books.

=> Harry Potter is this generations Star Wars

DVS BSTrD:

canadamus_prime:
Wouldn't this generations Star Wars be defined by cultural impact rather than financial or critical success or failure of expectations?

True, and I think that would make it Lord of the Rings Trilogy. It was having an impact on popular culture before they were even made into movies (The live action ones anyway). And it's also going to have a much better prequel.

This is why Lord of the Rings can't count. It was so clearly many many generations ago Star Wars, it's not a new thing that's sweeping around the world and becoming a pop culture phenomen, it's clearly a thing with always has been a cultural phenonemon. People were introduced to them through the films but they didn't go away and create their own culture and invent the fantasy genre, instead they just started reading and looking at the stuff LotoR fans had been doing anyway

All Harry Potter characters are unable to ascend from their original roles?

Daniel Radcliffe?
image

Cedric Diggory?
image

Arthur Weaseley?
image
...which was nice.

I feel I must disagree.

Anyway, this generation's Star Wars is Transformers - Most popular, Highest Grossing, and goddam embarassed to have ever seen it. And you'll STILL get people telling you that Bayformers is greater than ORSON WELLS as Unicron.

Which they are wrong about.

Oh yeah, and Transformers 4 is coming out soon - let's see how many people enjoy the NEW prequels.

MWahahahaahahaahahahahahahahahah

Firefilm:
snip

The most important thing to consider is the attitude of the culture surrounding the generation.

Back when the original Star Wars came out they transcended what Si Fi movies could be, and an entire generation of people got caught up in that movement. The people of Gen X wanted more. They were hungry for more good stuff and Star Wars was the reason for it.

Spin the clocks forward to Generation Y and what is the attitude of the culture now days? What do people want? They want the same old crap. New ideas get shunned in favor of re-releasing something with enough brand recognition to make millions with out even having to be good. And what has better brand recognition that Star Wars.

Generation Y doesn't want to make their own thing if there's something they can remake they know will sell. You see the same attitude in videogames "We could make an original game but we know Call of Duty will sell so lets just make that." "We could make an original movie but we know Star Wars movies sell so lets just make more of those." That's why every crappy movie that does moderately well gets a sequel regardless of whether or not it needs one.

And the reason it's Star Wars and not Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings is because the general quality of what passes for entertainment these days is on a downward trend. Making bad versions of something guaranteed to sell is what lies in the heart and soul of Generation Y.

Oh god, arguing while drinking, that was the funniest damn thing I've seen in a while.

As for voting on the win, LotR would be my choice, it was a big, epic adventure and revived high fantasy for lots of people. Harry Potter could claim that, but it never felt quite as epic to me, everything happened in pretty well one major area for most of the conflict, and only really resolved anything in the end, whereas LotR you can see the progress of the story based on where the characters are and they slowly wear out, even between the movies, HP felt like the characters got to be fully restored between films, so their struggle wasn't quite on par with LotR's heroes.

Edit: I am aware that I skipped Star Wars, that was kind of intentional, I don't feel that the new movies are anywhere near up to snuff in comparison to LotR or HP.

I'm sure there is a "this generation's Star Wars", unfortunately it could never impact said generation the same why. And that's because this generation is cluttered with different types of media, primarily the internet.

Back when Star Wars was released, TV only had a handfull of channels, the movie industry wasn't the bloated blockbuster behemoth that it is now (one that Star Wars had a hand in), and we didn't have the internet. Because of that it had a lot more room to expand and become the cultural phenomenon that know today.

Today however, there's so many different types of entertainment fighting for attention that anything which might be impactful is quickly pushed to the side for the next shiny new thing.

Look at those guys.

All debating together.

Yes, I'm a child

Gotta agree with Chris on this one.

Harry Potter has had such a huge cultural impact on this generation.

Not me though. I read the books and was finished with the franchise years ago.

Even by the spit-take, Chris was twice as good as Dan or Kyle, because Chris didn't make a mess and break out laughing.

Also, Chris's point "Harry Potter is 8 MOVIES" makes more sense than any "obligation" people have to see the other ones. I don't remember much of the prequels, not even the third one (which I saw when I was 13 or so). I didn't even see more than one Lord of the Rings movie.

Harry Potter, on the other hand, has half of one of the Islands of Adventure in the Universal Studios theme park in Orlando, Florida! Sure there's other parks for LotR and maybe the Star Wars prequels, but dammit, the Harry Potter land is the one I went twice to!

I say Star Wars is Gen Y's Star Wars for a number of reasons.

First we have to pin down what being a generation's "Star Wars" even means. To me, Star Wars was a powerhouse of iconic popular culture that stood as the example of what defined fanboy/fangirl-ism for that generation. When Star Wars came out, people didn't just love it, the obsessed over it. They quoted it, they bought the toys, they re-enacted scenes, they argued over which was the best and which was the worst, they argued over head-canon, they built this enormous expanded universe...

I'd say Harry Potter comes close to fulfilling that role, but I think it falls short simply because it isn't an obsession shared specifically with Gen Y. Gen X-ers, Baby Boomers, and even the Greatest Generation all love Harry Potter.

However, when you look at the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy and the subsequent Clone Wars cartoon, it's enjoyed primarily by Gen Y. Gen X and below all hate the prequels, but for a lot of Gen Y, the Prequels were how they were introduced to Star Wars and while they may not consider them the best, they will certainly be more likely to enjoy watching them than the older generations.

George Lucas created the Prequels primarily to capture Gen Y like he had captured Gen X, and while we can argue that the movies didn't capture the same feeling as the old movies, they still managed to get the new generation interested in Star Wars all over again.

Gen Y is just as obsessed with Star Wars as the two generations before it. They may not be obsessed with the Prequels, but the Prequels certainly changed the face of Star Wars for this new generation. George Lucas's writing and directing skills aside, the universe had never been this fleshed out in canon before.

Regardless of how they were introduced to it, Gen Y Star Wars fans treat Star Wars with just as much love and obsession as the previous generations and certainly on a level above Harry Potter.

On top of that, regardless of how much we dislike the Prequels, nothing engenders fanboy rage quite like Star Wars.

The Prequels may not have been as iconic as movies, but Star Wars as a franchise is still the reigning king of pop culture.

Although I like LotR the best, I'd agree HP has had a general influence (social, financial, etc) over the general populace that LotR and the new Star Wars films don't have, in the same way that the old Star Wars had it over that generation.

LotR is to Star Trek as Harry Potter is to Star Wars, IMO.

Pat Hulse:
I say Star Wars is Gen Y's Star Wars for a number of reasons.

First we have to pin down what being a generation's "Star Wars" even means. To me, Star Wars was a powerhouse of iconic popular culture that stood as the example of what defined fanboy/fangirl-ism for that generation. When Star Wars came out, people didn't just love it, the obsessed over it. They quoted it, they bought the toys, they re-enacted scenes, they argued over which was the best and which was the worst, they argued over head-canon, they built this enormous expanded universe...

Gen Y is just as obsessed with Star Wars as the two generations before it. They may not be obsessed with the Prequels, but the Prequels certainly changed the face of Star Wars for this new generation. George Lucas's writing and directing skills aside, the universe had never been this fleshed out in canon before.

But you just contradicted yourself. If it means being an iconic part of pop culture and fanboy/girl-ism, then the prequels by definition can't fit that bill, as no one is "obsessed with the prequels," and because they aren't an "iconic part of pop culture" or something that any particular generation, as a whole, has embraced as the "in" thing.

Changing the face of Star Wars (something that would only be noticed by people from previous generations that grew up with the originals) =/= being iconic and forever changing the culture of the current generation. Harry Potter has done that (the fact that it was able to do that for several generations, not just the current one, is irrelevant).

Kyle is Right in a way, the new star wars does define a generation, but it is still defining the same one, generation x. generation x is the only generation that is worse off than its predecessor and that encompasses the second trilogy. star wars still defines a generation, just all six movies describe the life cycle of generation x.

As far as what I think the star wars of this generation is I have to agree with Chris its harry potter, it enveloped, no consumed the entire population. hell my mother knew who harry potter was and it single-handedly started thousands of children reading.

I know lord of the rings are based on books too are what people would say but they did not spawn an entire generation to read. most people i know have only watched the movies not read the books. The lord of the rings are just good movies, the best of the lot but they do not define a generation like star wars and harry potter does.

The Star Wars prequels are exactly right. And for the reasons indicated: Star Wars in the late '70s and early '80s was the transition from low and medium-budget fantasy franchises to big budget blockbusters and was amazing because so many talented actors, writers, special effects people, etc. finally had the chance to put it all out there.

The prequels, on the other hand, were after two decades of the industry practicing selling out their fans for the biggest buck and were the apotheosis of such. They put together everything they thought people liked about the original movies except for talent, and even though they were lame people still went anyway.

That is why every series with a big enough following betrays its fans these days. To pick up a random demographic who would never otherwise watch the movie because screw the fans. Fans are already their slaves. (Case in point: play the Mass Effect 3 demo, single player mode)

I'd say it LotRs, It rebirthed the fantasy genre like Star Wars brought back the Sci-Fi genre.

Firefilm:
snip

You still haven't agreed on the battlefield here. This still isn't so much a debate about which of these is "the new Star Wars," but rather what makes something a "Star Wars."

Financial success just isn't a very good measure. Critical success really doesn't seem to fit, either. It's clear that we're getting into the cultural significance of the movies... and there's still a lot of room for debate there.

Lord of the Rings gives us a large, continuous epic. It gives us big revelations and twists, it tackles the loss of great characters, and it gives us a few of those memorable, quotable moments -- your "I am your father" moments, like "YOU SHALL NOT PASS!"

But Rings mostly speaks to an older crowd. It was made for people already familiar with the source material, and at least a little in love with it. Yes, it can be enjoyed by the "uninitiated," but not a lot of little kids really love those movies.

Harry Potter, however, didn't "revive" interest. It captured the interest of young people, who will remember growing up with Harry Potter. What gives Star Wars its power is the fact that so many of us grew up on Star Wars. It defines large portions of our childhood years. That nostalgic anchor is what gives it the magic and power that we ascribe to it now.

This debate isn't won on the movies, but on the audience. We love Lord of the Rings through grown-up eyes, but we loved Star Wars through child's eyes. While we may not have all been children during the "Potter Years," those who were will always remember it through those child-like eyes.

Wow, this episode was hilarious.

For which one I think is this generation's Star Wars (and I guess I'm technically in that generation) I think it really depends on the angle. I think Kyle's point the prequels better represent this generation was the best made point, but I don't know if is really the direction I would take. The prequels a perfect example of how we are all whiny assholes that will never be satisfied but at the same time will never give it up. (Never give up complaining and never give up getting fooled into thinking it could still be good).

But, I don't the prequels actually will/do have the same game-changing impact that the original Star Wars did. I think both the LotR movies and the HP books and movies do pretty much the same thing as each other, but I think Harry Potter probably had the bigger impact, if for no reason than because it had a longer stay and because it was actually new.

The_root_of_all_evil:
All Harry Potter characters are unable to ascend from their original roles?

Daniel Radcliffe?
image

Cedric Diggory?
image

Arthur Weaseley?
image
...which was nice.

Lee Jordan?
image

Firefilm:
This Generation's "Star Wars" Part 2

A three-way debate? A two-part episode? What is this, sweeps week? It doesn't matter, because it's debate time! Kyle pulls out a wild card with his opinions, while Chris and Dan try to gather their forces. The arguments being made must grow, go on long journeys of discovery, and then end up where they began, but changed. Wow, maybe this generation's Star Wars is this description?

And don't forget, if you don't understand our decisions or want to have more of our material to complete your shrines to us, Mondays feature a new written companion piece titled No Right Explanation. We dare you to make less sense!

Watch Video

Lord of the Rings, people learned to speak, read and write elvish...elfish...elven? Either way what did Harry Potter inspire? People learning Latin? Naming their locations with terrible puns? (Diagon Ally=Diagonally)

As for the cast of Star Wars being type casted; Harrison Ford was obviously the biggest break out star from that, but Mark Hamill became the Joker, and Kerry Fisher became the chick that tried to kill Jake and Elwood Blues.

Oh and Arthur Weasley and Dr. Gregory House worked together to kidnap slightly less than one hundred dalmatian puppies so the grandmother from Hoodwinked could make a coat out of their skin.

Lord of the Rings. enough said

My vote goes for Harry Potter. I watch and read Potter far more than Lord of the Rings. I walked out of 3D phantom menace.

You know, I think the best way to determine this generation's Star Wars is to look at the number of people willing to dress up, in public, when going to see the movies, and I haven't seen any costume more numerous in recent years than the Dark Knight Joker.

DRTJR:
I'd say it LotRs, It rebirthed the fantasy genre like Star Wars brought back the Sci-Fi genre.

rebirthed the fantasy genre? *looks around* what fantasy? game of thrones? im sorry but i cnat think of a single fantasy medieval movie released that had some impact since LOTR.

as for topic, yeah its HP. i mean, im not a big fan of Harry Potter, i enjoy the movies but im not what you would call a fan, and i enjoyed the prequels, but not a fan. they were ok to me. LOTR was nice, probably the best in quality of all 3 franchises, but if you wanna define the people born circa 1990 and forward, wich means they would be teenagers around the time these 3 came out, then HP is the winner. im sorry but the other 2 dont stand a candle. the prequels are just donning in the original trilogies fame, so it doesnt count. LOTR didnt have a cultural impact, they were just really good movies, as was gone with the wind, citizen kane, a wonderful life, but like those movies, it didnt shape, create fanboyism, create a culture of its own, and if it did, it did it when the books came out(DnD and all that) not now. HP started now, and created a culture following NOW. dont matter wich one you like most, but fact remains, HP was the biggest word of talk of all 3, the biggest phenomenom of this generation regarding the subject at hand.

Wait, hold up...

(Chris talking) "You're like that fancy guy, in the smoking jacket-" *Saying that while a picture of Fancy Pants from MLP: FiM is displayed on screen*

SO.. I am going to assume two things on how you guys found out about Fancy Pants:

1) You browsed Google and came across Fancy Pants, thus thought was the best reference to use while surprising people with it.

2) You guys have actually watched a lot of episodes to where you remembered Fancy Pants, thus used him for that particular line. I could be wrong ether way, but.. :} it's funny to think about really.

image

OT: This was very enjoyable to watch especially with you guys trying to debate at the same time while drinking your glasses. How does that work?! I have to agree with Chris that it was a bad idea but worth seeing overall haha XD. Oh, and I felt like Dan deserved at least a point or two after making good remarks while debating. Somehow, when he earned a point Chris got another so it made me sad that Dan only got 2 while Chris has 4.. mm. No matter, hopefully Dan will get the upper hand next time and blow us away. He sure did a fine job last time! No sarcasm

Azuaron:
You know, I think the best way to determine this generation's Star Wars is to look at the number of people willing to dress up, in public, when going to see the movies, and I haven't seen any costume more numerous in recent years than the Dark Knight Joker.

are you kidding? do you know how many people dress up as hogwarts students? you could open a fucking multi national private school business with that number of clients.

Even though I'm a bigger fan of Lord of The Rings, I'm going to have to give this one to Chris and Harry Potter.

Even though I'm a bigger fan of Lord of The Rings, I'm going to have to give this one to Chris and Harry Potter.

artanis_neravar:

As for the cast of Star Wars being type casted; Harrison Ford was obviously the biggest break out star from that, but Mark Hamill became the Joker, and Kerry Fisher became the chick that tried to kill Jake and Elwood Blues.

Harrison Ford went on, sure. But he was still kinda his Star Wars persona, and that was only matched by his playing equally iconic characters. Hamill had to go to a medium where you never saw his face, and sounded completely different and the opposite of his Luke character in order to take on another role. He was only not still Luke because he was hiding that fact, throw him back into live action and his identity outside of star wars evaporates. And yes, Kerry Fisher was in blues brothers, where people could point out that princess Leia was in blues brothers. They were always tied to those roles.

This generation's Star Wars is clearly Star Wars. But when I say Star Wars, I don't mean the prequel trilogy and I don't mean the original trilogy. I'm talking about the franchise as a whole. We don't need a new Star Wars because the cultural impact of the original is still as strong as ever. The Star Wars phenomenon is defined by its influence spanning generations; how could a series from the last decade possibly measure up?

I think it would be easier for me to make a decision if I knew how I was supposed to judge them. In terms of cultural impact, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with Harry Potter. I mean...books, movies, conventions, a frakking theme park. Star Wars has Star Tours...and I think that's it. LotR has...New Zealand? I guess? Everyone knows who Harry Potter is. I don't think Frodo and Anakin have that kind of notoriety.

Also, the debate was, as always, awesome. Also, did you all three spit-take? I thought that was an automatic DQ?

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