Test Your Might

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WaysideMaze:

Hookah:
Salo is an awful movie. Terrible acting, directing, scripting. Just a gross out movie for those who did an arts degree.

Completely agree, watched it for a dare or something a while back. Just found the whole film boring.

Not seen the rest of these, may give them a try sometime.

It did actually carry a strong and unpatronizing political message, if nothing else. I was surprised by how profoundly philosophical the whole thing was even if it did faulter terribly in every other aspect.

Maybe I'm the only one who cares about this but Moviebob seems to hate on Cannibal Holocaust a lot. I'm beginning to see that his main complaint is the animal torture which to be fair was really unnecessary. I also think it was in awful taste and it didn't add much to the film other than a faint feel of realism (which for once I can't completely condemn because the whole point of the film is realism). On the other hand, the director has looked back on the film and concluded that the animal killings were a terrible mistake on his part and he did seem to be honestly sorry for what he did.

Apart from that, the animals aren't treated with the level of cruelty I would even call, well, animal cruelty. They are just killed and then skinned and then eaten on-stage. I've seen Bear Grills do much more fucked up shit than that. BTW, Bear Grills, now there's a crazy animal murderer (to be fair, I know it's not him, it's his crazy producer who makes him kill those poor animals). If they purposely slowly tortured the animal, I would understand, but for the most part they kill the animals for food. To be honest, that's not even rare to see in films. Nuovo Cinema Paradiso (Oscar-winner and my favourite film ever) has a cow being slaughtered in it (and ironically the protagonist is filming this for an amateur film he's composing) but nobody gives a shit in that case, every time I watch it I wonder why the fuck that scene is there. Why not a sunset, a wheat field, some clouds. No, fucking cow's throat being slit for no fucking reason. Other people have already mentioned stuff like Apocalypse Now and other higher-brow works which don't get the criticism this film does but trust me, there's plenty.

I don't know what it is about the killings in Cannibal Holocaust that made people so adverse to the film but I didn't find them especially cruel, or disgusting. It's nothing like dog fighting. That is the most disgusting shit I've ever seen, period. Ironically, news channels like to stick in found dog fighting footage in their reports just for the shock value. Maybe if people didn't just shrug off Cannibal Holocaust as an amateurish gorefest pretending to have a deep message, they would actually get the message and realize how in real life, we just accept violence and see it as normal. We have to go to a film to feel outraged, somehow.

I'll pass, thanks. But thank you for telling me just how much worse it gets than Saw. I really needed that boost to my faith in humanity.

A wikipedia synopsis of A Serbian Film was already far far far far far far far far too much for me, but thanks for the reccommendations anyways, Bob.

I can deal with seeing horrible shit in films and I'm hardly ever sqeamish about seeing gore. But the thing that gets me about these films is the supposed reality of them.

The things that take place in A Serbian film, for example, wouldn't bother me if I didn't get the feeling that things like that really do happen in the world.

See, that is the worst part. Even just hearing about the.... the part where the protagonist gets introduced to a "new genre" screwed with my head. I didn't feel squeamish or ill because of the violence described - I simply felt a cold, enveloping sensation of loss and hopelessness because if someone could think it up for the purposes of the film, then it's also entirely possible (and actually kind of likely) that at least one person out there in the real world has fucking done it. That's the most horrifying part about these things, imo.

Whether or not there is artistic merit to be found in portraying them is another question entirely, one that I'm not in the mood to go into at the moment.

Revolutionaryloser:

I don't know what it is about the killings in Cannibal Holocaust that made people so adverse to the film but I didn't find them especially cruel, or disgusting. It's nothing like dog fighting. That is the most disgusting shit I've ever seen, period. Ironically, news channels like to stick in found dog fighting footage in their reports just for the shock value. Maybe if people didn't just shrug off Cannibal Holocaust as an amateurish gorefest pretending to have a deep message, they would actually get the message and realize how in real life, we just accept violence and see it as normal. We have to go to a film to feel outraged, somehow.

Maybe it's because we know that the Killings in the film aren't real. When faced with real violence there's a very direct method of response which normally goes "this kind of shit needs to stop".

The reason people get outraged at it's portrayal is possibly because they think portraying it codifies it, makes it acceptable in some capacity. There's also the fact that the things they see in a film aren't the horrors that really exist in the world, but mocked-up (or y'know, real) versions of things that depress them, which the auteur has gone to certian lengths to show them. People can explain away the first, but I think they have a harder time understanding why someone creating a film would want to re-create them.

Not that I feel that way, that's just my interpretation of their reactions.

Well I have started with VisitorQ, so far it is kind of interesting, I guess showing a web and cycle of abuse perpetrated by family on family and society on family? I am only half way done still and I do not know how the titular character plays into it all. Interesting but so far not that hard to watch. If anything it is a little slow.

I recently researched a few of these (I've never seen any or likely will EVER see any of these movies). I read about them and mentally added it to a 'Do NOT watch it cos you can't un-watch it!' list.

Although I have only heard of a few that you mentioned...some others that I looked up include Irreversible and strange 'fetish porn' movies like Deep Throat (where I read that the actress was forced to film the scenes with a gun pointed to her head...not sure if it's true or not but it's completely fucked up if it is!)

After watching real murderers I bet I can watch this films without much problem. They are just that, movies.

I haven't seen any of those Bob mentioned but am already taking care of that. But I've watched a Serbian film, it was nice. The first part was better than the second one, I didn't like the protagonist paranoia.

btw real murder was on a gore site which has some real fucked up shit.

Oh wow, i guess I managed to catch Society on TV when I was a kid. Because I always remembered that fucked up or scene where everyone melts together and starts eating others. That's the kind of thing you don't forget too easily. Never had any idea what it was but I've been trying to find out for years. Thanks Bob. I might have to check out a few of these flicks, they definately sound like a fun filled evening with beer and friends...

The only movie you mentioned that I have seen was Audition, which was, um...interesting.

Anyway, I hadn't actually heard of Unit 731 before, very interesting piece of history.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw this list and immediately had Brad Jones appear in my head.

I have to wonder how strong BOB'S stomach is, because I've SEEN half of these films and... yeah. Not that interesting.

FUCK YEAH WE ARE THE HORRIBLE MONSTER GENERATION!

WaysideMaze:

honestdiscussioner:
Frankly I'm surprised he didn't mention "A Serbian Film", thought that could because he knew what it was beforehand and didn't see it.

He did mention it, right at the start of the article, shopping with human centipede 2.he just didn't go into depth.

WaysideMaze:

honestdiscussioner:
Frankly I'm surprised he didn't mention "A Serbian Film", thought that could because he knew what it was beforehand and didn't see it.

He did mention it, right at the start of the article, shopping with human centipede 2.he just didn't go into depth.

Ah, so he did. I skipped over the second half of that note because I thought I understood what it meant. Apparently I was wrong.

Phuctifyno:
The [edit]second[edit] saddest thing about Cannibal Holocaust is that it was actually a pretty decent movie (or would have been, depending on how much you're affected by the animal cruelty). It will never (and should never) be fully appreciated because of those bad choices.

I'm not saying the acts in the film are necessarily enjoyable to watch (lots of dismemberment, lots of rape... lots), but I found the whole presentation damn effective. Damn, I say.

Being a fan of practical special effects, kudos must go to the director for having to prove in court that his human-oriented special effects were fake... of course, he probably wouldn't have had to do that if he hadn't put real animal slaughter in the film... so kudos taken back. Damn, I say.

Alot of the time I find that an actually good movie like Cannibal Holocaust is much more disturbing since it lets you experience the movie. A crappy story means it's all just pixels on the screen to me.

honestdiscussioner:
Frankly I'm surprised he didn't mention "A Serbian Film", thought that could because he knew what it was beforehand and didn't see it. This is the correct approach I think. I got sick merely reading the description of what it was. I'm glad no one asked me to watch it, based off of the description it beats out anything Moviebob cites here.

This is the reaction of a very good Christian girl of whom I happen to know to a few scenes. All you see is her reaction. I can't believe Coughlan had her watch this.

I must say that was a lot more interesting to watch than A Serbian Film itself. But then again, I never cared much for torture porn.

Part of me is surprised Irreversible wasn't on the list. It opens with a brutal murder scene of someone having their face turned to pulp by an unrelenting attack with a fire extinguisher, and further in there's a fixed-camera 15 minute anal rape scene that the camera just sits on until it's done.

The rest of me isn't surprised at all, because Irreversible has two disturbing scenes, and the movies on the list have basically nothing but disturbing scenes.

I've seen or heard of all of these films, but it is interesting to see someone like MovieBob shine a light on them for those who are unaware.

I'd say, personally, that "Visitor Q" is worth a look, though it really is Miike at his most disjointed. "Audition" is probably the best complete film that he's ever made, so I'd recommend that over "Visitor Q". Another good Miike movie for the bold and curious would be "Imprint", though if the mental image of dead fetuses is too much for you, I'd suggest avoiding it.

"Salo" is a mediocre movie, really. It has the ambition of a great film, but ends up getting stuck in the muck and the mire. It never realizes its fully potential, which is unfortunate, though it is disgusting if that's all you care about.

Also, if real-life animal death is something you can't stomach (and who can blame you; I hate seeing it myself) then DO NOT WATCH "MEN BEHIND THE SUN". There are scenes of cats and rats dying, and an autopsy scene that featured the actual corpse of a dead child. The movie was shot in China, and the Chinese authorities were willing to let the crew shoot an honest-to-god autopsy. Once you learn that, it makes the movie even more disturbing. It's a powerful movie, but I can't recommend it since its graphic scenes are truly disgusting.

I actually knew a couple of these due to the exploits of Mr. Brad Jones as The Cinema Snob. Salo is easily in my top ten of his episodes and I'm sure Visitor Q would make for an interesting episode, despite the fact that it's likely beyond his cutoff date.

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