No Right Answer: Most Overrated Videogame

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Sylveria:
These are both games with historical significance to the genre, gaming as a whole, and the culture. I never understood the point of going after old games as if they're over-rated because the tech and features behind them aren't cutting edge 15+years later especially in an age where people are creaming their pants over "nostalgia" games and such so frequently.

If someone painted the Mona Lisa today, the artistic community would just assume wipe their ass with it, let alone consider it one of the most important pieces of art ever done. You can't judge historical pieces by modern day conventions.

I don't think that's the point.

Final Fantasy VII has a lot of problems that can't be excused just because it's old. The story is terrible from the middle to the end, the battle mechanics and materia system is lazy and uninspired; the character design is bland, a large part of the minigames are badly designed. All this doesn't mean it isn't an OK game, it just means it isn't the legendary masterpiece everybody thinks they remember. Final Fantasy VI is till much better. Oh, and Sephiroth is a pathetic villain.

Bonus points for the shirt.

i dont want to sound too harsh or offend. but this video reminded me theres a reason i only come here for zero punctuation.
that was very painful to watch. the only way you can have an honest and interesting debate is to do it naturally, without rehearsing and forgetting that the camera is there. the viewer wants to be a fly on the wall, not a participant in the conversation who is for some reason mute.
because you rehearse, everything is stilted and over expressed. its like watching some drunk guys trying to act.

just my 2c and i hope it helps you get more viewers.

and ps: a story never diminishes in worth. seeing as ff7 is primarily a story, i cant see you can say "it does not hold up anymore". its like saying charles dickens "does not hold up anymore". and also, every element from ff7 is still better than todays equivalent bar the graphics.

Tanakh:
Then again without golden eye we wouldn't have Halo, GoW or RAGE, ID software would still make Qake and Epic would do UT...

Disagree on both points.

First Person Shooters were being developed and released for consoles before Golden Eye and would have been even without Golden Eye's success. So we would have had the Halos and Rages even without Golden Eye.

Same with the second point which is actually a little off seeing as Epic's GoW isn't an FPS anyway and both Epic and id were always going to develop games for consoles seeing as that is where the market went. (id had already released Wolfenstein on consoles for example, prior to Golden Eye coming in to existence)

So yeah. You've actually added another point as to why Golden Eye might be overrated: Because people give it too much importance/credit such as thinking it was the reason FPS came to the consoles :P

both are overrated as the best ever,and are both clouded with nostalgia.

but finial fantasy 7 holds up a lot better than golden eye in terms of ageing, and lack of relevance.

Golden eyes story was, well, James bond, but without a real story. and there was nothing original about the game except how solid it was built for the time, and so is remembered fondly, the same way CoD will be remember as the "best game ever" 10 years from now, even though the current games then will be the exact same thing but with better Graphics, Mechanic's, ext.

it was just a marketing tool for a product. Its like having the same affinity for Chester Cheetah: Too Cool To Fool, or cool spot.


but like thatfknninja said the surreal story and setting elements of finial fantasy, although not really deserving of the praise it gets, are timeless. and was conceived as a work of art.

even in terms of nostalgia:

ff7 hearkens back to an age when japan's games were the titans of the industry. and the fun qwerks that came with that. witch for the most part are gone now.

golden eye ,however, was just the first step in the evolution of the genera as a whole that has come to almost completely consume the medium.

MonkeyPunch:
First Person Shooters were being developed and released for consoles before Golden Eye and would have been even without Golden Eye's success. So we would have had the Halos and Rages even without Golden Eye.

Same with the second point which is actually a little off seeing as Epic's GoW isn't an FPS anyway and both Epic and id were always going to develop games for consoles seeing as that is where the market went. (id had already released Wolfenstein on consoles for example, prior to Golden Eye coming in to existence)

So yeah. You've actually added another point as to why Golden Eye might be overrated: Because people give it too much importance/credit such as thinking it was the reason FPS came to the consoles :P

Yeah, but like any revisionism of history it is subjective. Would Obama be president without the history of slavery of african americans? Japan and the US fight without Germany? One could argue either way.

One could for example say that Golden Eye, while not being the first person game released on console, was indeed the first example of a game we might recognize as a modern FPS; delivering a solid experience with what was a very limited piece of hardware (cartridge had no space for half decent textures, N64 ram was a joke, no fucking mouse to aim!), and without doubt the first sucessful one. Sure, FPS made for consoles would have happened, but it's like saying the movies would have happened without Sergei Eisenstein, Charles Caplin or Georges Méliès, while true, it might not be the movies we know at all.

GoW isn't an FPS, but you can't deny the influence that Halo had in it. ID and Epic are both shooter focused companies, they know they can make a good shooter that sells, they know they have little experience outside that; without golden eye showing it was possible to make it big with shooters in consoles, making the sudden changes they made and walk away from the PC would be a very risky move, again, it might have happened anyway, but i don't see John Carmack saying "well, fuck the PC, lets go consoles" without seeing a big FPS on that plataform (not neccesary golden eye, just one example of sucess there).

Lastly, I am not saying that it's the reason, I am saying that it was the pioneer there. Like Mario/DK for console plataformers wasn't the "reason" but it sure as hell is important for the genere and can be credited for part of it's historic development.

Kyle was right... as he is most of the time... their quotation system is wrong.

I SUPPORT KYLE!

I hear what you're all saying, but to me it sounds like this:

"WAAA!! WAAAA!! People like different things to me!! That's wrooooong!!! WAAAAA!!!"

Halo was really the game that moved console shooters to the position of dominance they had over the last decade, and I doubt it would not have been made without golden eye. seeing how it did away with all the tropes of earlier shooters like golden eye: maze maps, multigun, limited health ext.

I don't know if that was necessarily a good thing, but it is what it was.

Just putting this out there, but FF7's final dungeon is filled with mobs that aren't found in any other dungeon. Also, Tifa was the only one with a large rack, and she didn't wear any low cut or revealing clothes.

Goldeneye was an okay game. I've never understood the praise it got.

I don't think Goldeneye was overrated. I love that game and the remake (although I will admit that playing it with the Wiimote makes me want to shoot myself in the face. Go go gadget classic controller!). But I've never played FFVII, so I can't truly participate in the debate portion.

My issue is this: are you really allowed to have a quote from a movie be your quote of the week? Come on, guys. You're better than that.

thatfknninja:
i dont want to sound too harsh or offend. but this video reminded me theres a reason i only come here for zero punctuation.
that was very painful to watch. the only way you can have an honest and interesting debate is to do it naturally, without rehearsing and forgetting that the camera is there. the viewer wants to be a fly on the wall, not a participant in the conversation who is for some reason mute.
because you rehearse, everything is stilted and over expressed. its like watching some drunk guys trying to act.

just my 2c and i hope it helps you get more viewers.

and ps: a story never diminishes in worth. seeing as ff7 is primarily a story, i cant see you can say "it does not hold up anymore". its like saying charles dickens "does not hold up anymore". and also, every element from ff7 is still better than todays equivalent bar the graphics.

A common misconception is that we rehearse, or have some sort of a script. In all reality, these videos are about 90% real time, with Dan (Me) taking out long pauses and points where the debaters bust up laughing and have to compose themselves. It's pretty much all improv. We don't even know who is the winner until we've filmed most of the episode and then I make a ruling, and then we film the result of that ruling.

And no, we have never filmed an episode where any alcohol was involved. I hope this clears up any confusion. Thanks for watching.

runnernda:
I don't think Goldeneye was overrated. I love that game and the remake (although I will admit that playing it with the Wiimote makes me want to shoot myself in the face. Go go gadget classic controller!). But I've never played FFVII, so I can't truly participate in the debate portion.

My issue is this: are you really allowed to have a quote from a movie be your quote of the week? Come on, guys. You're better than that.

That's a quote from a movie? What movie?

Is it wrong I thought of FFVII as soon as I saw the title?

I'd like to think not.

Tanakh:

GoW isn't an FPS, but you can't deny the influence that Halo had in it. ID and Epic are both shooter focused companies, they know they can make a good shooter that sells, they know they have little experience outside that; without golden eye showing it was possible to make it big with shooters in consoles, making the sudden changes they made and walk away from the PC would be a very risky move, again, it might have happened anyway, but i don't see John Carmack saying "well, fuck the PC, lets go consoles" without seeing a big FPS on that plataform (not neccesary golden eye, just one example of sucess there).

For one neither Epic or id made sudden changes to consoles and neither walked away from the PC.
And again Carmack was always interested in developing for consoles hence why id released Wolfenstein for the 3DO, SNES, GBA before GE was release. Just sayin'

You're giving way too much credit to GE for things it never did.

MonkeyPunch:
For one neither Epic or id made sudden changes to consoles and neither walked away from the PC.
And again Carmack was always interested in developing for consoles hence why id released Wolfenstein for the 3DO, SNES, GBA before GE was release. Just sayin'

Good point about Wolfstein.

Saying Epic and ID have not walked away from the PC makes no sense. Epic has not released anything on the PC for the last five years, and I dont think there are plans to do it in the future, and Carmack has made clear that the PC is an aftertought for him. If they want to focus on consoles instead of PC, it's totally fine, but how can you argue they haven't walked away from the PC?

i ultimately had to agree with two points FF6 is best final fantasy, and perfect dark is BOSS. i didn't enjoy goldeneye nearly as much once perfect dark came out, and eventually i lost interest in FF7 and cloud and co are still stuck in the mines searching for sephiroth. one day i will go back and use omni slash.

Beautiful End:
Is it wrong I thought of FFVII as soon as I saw the title?
I'd like to think not.

also

if it's wrong then i'm guilty too. i was afraid it would be ff7 and LoZ ocarina of time. that debate probably would have killed my inner child

Tanakh:

Saying Epic and ID have not walked away from the PC makes no sense. Epic has not released anything on the PC for the last five years, and I dont think there are plans to do it in the future, and Carmack has made clear that the PC is an aftertought for him. If they want to focus on consoles instead of PC, it's totally fine, but how can you argue they haven't walked away from the PC?

Unreal Tournament 3 and they facilitated the release of Bulletstorm on the PC.
Then there's Mike Capps: Epic Games is "Targeting the PC Again".

So the way I can quite easily argue that they haven't walked away from the PC is by mentioning that they are still releasing PC games. Quite simply.

Arguably they're being pretty lame in what they provide and their focus is undoubtedly on the console market and I can agree that the PC is merely an afterthought, but that is clear because that is where the money is for now in their eyes.
(Not that I agree, because enough companies that "do it right" such as Blizzard can make a huge profit off PC games exclusively.)
Companies like Epic have sort of developed a catch 22 situation. They release really lacklustre ports for the PC and then go on to whine that their PC games don't sell as well.
Wait you provided a mediocre title which doesn't cater to the platforms strengths and it didn't sell well on said platform?! Nowai!!!

I have to say Halo is the most over rated game series. Partially because FFVII is my favorite game of all time. Yes games have looked better and have better stories, but for me there are no characters I care about more than Cloud Tifa and Yuffie. Except for maybe ME3 when that comes out.

I stopped listening at "FF7's combat was so boring, all the characters were interchangeable, they could all equip the same spells."

You view this as a BAD THING? I love the older JRPGs, but I always hated when my favorite characters weren't good enough to actually use in my party. I like the fact that Square tried to fix this situation with materia, and limit breaks being the main difference between combat effectiveness. I hate that in FFX you are basically shoehorned into using Tidus+Wakka+Rikku if you wanna do any of the high end fights, because Lulu, Auron, and Kimahri have the weakest abilities compared to the other three, and Yuna being completely situational for some fights.

Or a better example, I hate that Kanji is the worst character in Persona 4 combat wise, because he's my favorite character personality wise. FF7 did it right. You are stuck with Cloud for most of the game, but the other party members are entirely up to you, and you aren't punished for bringing Red XIII and Cait Sith around.

MonkeyPunch:
So the way I can quite easily argue that they haven't walked away from the PC is by mentioning that they are still releasing PC games. Quite simply.

Arguably they're being pretty lame in what they provide and their focus is undoubtedly on the console market and I can agree that the PC is merely an afterthought, but that is clear because that is where the money is for now in their eyes.
(Not that I agree, because enough companies that "do it right" such as Blizzard can make a huge profit off PC games exclusively.)
Companies like Epic have sort of developed a catch 22 situation. They release really lacklustre ports for the PC and then go on to whine that their PC games don't sell as well.
Wait you provided a mediocre title which doesn't cater to the platforms strengths and it didn't sell well on said platform?! Nowai!!!

Well... i live in fiscal years more than real ones, thus the 5 years since release of UT 3 (which btw broke the PC fans heart, mine included, still didn't stopped me from rebuying UT 2004 once again in Steam), and in judging by what they do, not what they say. Seems we see more or less the same situation and pattern, but call it different things.

Kyle is way off the mark on this. Yes, there are many things "done in shooters before", but what put Goldeneye on the map was that it was the first shooter to really work ON A CONSOLE.

Finally, it breaks out of the "you can't have a shooter without the mouse/keyboard combo" meme and shows that you can do this stuff. So yes, future shooters built on the success of that game, but it's because they broke the shooter-on-console mold.

Also, FF7 is not the benchmark for an RPG. Chrono Trigger is.

Way to pussy out there Kyle. You really fucked up on this one. You where supposed to be arguing that Goldeneye is overrated and you spent half your time pissing about and going gently on it because you where afraid of fanboy backlash which if anything proves that it's more overrated because you where scared to even say it was overrated. Final Fantasy VII?! Seriously. That is a great game that is entirely playable today, the only limiting factor really is it's graphics. Goldeneye however is barely even close to playable by todays standards. It's primitive 3D graphics makes it harder to play than games like Doom which have managed to move themselves into a retro charm. Instead Goldeneye is just crap, bland rooms, with characters that look like they're made out of origami paper models. Not only is it bad though, it was bad when it first came out. Take a look at games that even came before it, Quake on PC was better and it predates Goldeneye by over a year. Alien Trilogy on the Sega Saturn was far superior and it was TWO YEARS before Goldeneye. Duke Nukem had better style, graphics, and did the vertical aiming first. Goldeneye brought nothing new to the table except giving an FPS to a bunch of retarded kids with N64's so they could form an impenetrable nostalgia bubble around it and claim it's one of the best games ever. In fact, N64 altogether is overrated. Super Mario 64, Ocarina Of Time, Majora's Mask, Conkers Bad Fur Day, Goldeneye. What do all these games have in common? They're all mediocre games that frequently appear in "top 10 best games of all time" lists all over the internet.

How dare you fuck this one up Kyle, you acted like a pussy, you where too afraid of the ravanous fanboys. It's your "favourite FPS", Really? No it's fucking not is it. Grow some balls and debate properly. That attempt was pitiful.

TheSchaef:
Kyle is way off the mark on this. Yes, there are many things "done in shooters before", but what put Goldeneye on the map was that it was the first shooter to really work ON A CONSOLE.

Alien Trilogy. Sega Saturn. 1995. You fail...

Firefilm:

runnernda:
I don't think Goldeneye was overrated. I love that game and the remake (although I will admit that playing it with the Wiimote makes me want to shoot myself in the face. Go go gadget classic controller!). But I've never played FFVII, so I can't truly participate in the debate portion.

My issue is this: are you really allowed to have a quote from a movie be your quote of the week? Come on, guys. You're better than that.

That's a quote from a movie? What movie?

It's from Old School. Have you seriously not seen that movie? I thought that was one of the fratboy-dude-bro movies that everyone had seen.

I loved Final Fantasy games (until X) but there were better games than 7, I prefered 6,9, and Tactics storylines over 7

Halo, never got into Halo as I felt the storyline could of been much better

TornadoCreator:

TheSchaef:
Kyle is way off the mark on this. Yes, there are many things "done in shooters before", but what put Goldeneye on the map was that it was the first shooter to really work ON A CONSOLE.

Alien Trilogy. Sega Saturn. 1995. You fail...

Alien Trilogy was a good-quality Doom clone, but possesses none of the features that made Goldeneye distinct and innovative. I'm not certain it was even a true 3D shooter but used the Doom-era sprite and ray-casting tricks.

Goldeneye took advantage of the analog stick featured in the N64 controller. To my knowledge, Alien Trilogy could not employ the greater degree of control offered in the Saturn 3D controller, which was released a year later.

Also Alien Trilogy had no multiplayer aspect; Goldeneye put multi deathmatch on the console shooter map. Goldeneye also employed stealth elements, which you didn't really have in shooters at the time. Other minor points: Goldeneye is the first console shooter I know of to have a sniper rifle with zoom, and location shots (e.g. headshots).

If there's any game that could be argued to compete with Goldeneye for innovating shooters on consoles, it's Turok. That at least was a full 3D game with analog aiming.

Jegsimmons:
Halo 3...corridors?
what?
Halo has some of the more wider open spaces in First Person Shooters without resorting to sand box...and halo 3 odst DID have a sandbox element! (not to mention that every halo games has always brought something new and worthwhile to gaming as a whole but i digress)
so...uh....WRONG!

Yeah.... I recently finished Halo 3 - Reach, and 3 had a lot of open spaced areas... Barely any corridors. Hell the Ark had some huge areas, espicially the ones in the sand and snow.

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