Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3: A Gay Erotic Love Story

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Syntax Man:
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo, lemme get this straight, Jim and Yahtzee can cus like sailors and the thing is fine with that, but an the mere mention of homosexuality it age gates the fucking thing?

Real mature, seems that this world still has a long way to go.

As for the actual episode...what the flying fuck was that?

I think it's more the graphic descriptions of homosexual coitus. A bit too spicy for the palates of the kiddies.

As for the episode itself, clearly a cautionary tale, though Jim was courteous enough not to spoil the twist ending.

Therumancer:

In the short term I think gay men and lesbians need to be considered seperate issues. Men and women are differant both physically and psychologically, and this applies to homosexuals as well. Despite liberal assurances that it's not the case, the reality is that gay men ARE more likely to attack children than just about any other group. Even with the statistics put out by the left wing you see you'll notice a trend to use stats compiled from all homosexuals and then applied to the arguements, once you remove the lesbians you wind up with gays being twice as likely to attack children as straight guys which kind of destroys a lot of the point. Not to mention that such statistics are compiled with an agenda and you'd only see the left wing promoting statistics that reinforced what they wanted to say.

Your anecdotal evidence proves no prevailing trends. Give me some good statistics or I will be forced to conclude that you're talking out of your ass.

Two things to say.
First: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Second: What the actual volcano muffins was that?

I dislike Jim a great deal. I've yet to see him do anything that doesn't involve cheap tricks at attention grabbing and over-the-top, satire riddled rants to show a point more easily demonstrable with a single paragraph. In fact, I would feel confident Jim has yet to lend his asinine, shouting voice to any topic not already covered--and in a much better way. He seems to waltz in on a topic, throw out a vulgar slam or two and cop a bunch of attention, with people praising his ability to deliver a 'no fluff punch' to the opposition. There's plenty of fluff here, folks; 99% of Jim's 'work' is fluff. The other individuals and parties more ably covering these issues are sadly overlooked when someone puts on a show and raises their voice.

Not cutting edge. Not intelligent. Not funny.

Pull a stunt like Jim here and be labeled an arrogant troll. You'd be banned in a heartbeat and you'd have an inbox full of critics. But sure enough, put it in video form and you can easily bat away what little opposition arises from the muted, over-moderated forum, with a quiff about them taking it too serious. Half of Jim's stunt writings are deliberate trolling and offensive drivel--the kind reported for being abusive and unnecessary. Yes, Escapist, by all means have two separate rule books for your content and the forum goers. There is nothing silly about profiting off loud-mouthed, arrogant rants while similtaneously hammering down on the same in your own home.

Also, the whole fake egomanical bend/god complex mask is irritating beyond compare. Saying "I'm only kidding" whenever someone critics your style doesn't make it any less idiotic and childish to spend the previous five minutes prancing about and shouting at the audience.

You can act a fool all you want, it doesn't make your point any more funny or insightful for it.

And no, there is no stick up my ass. Try again.

Therumancer:
Snip. I delete bullshit like this on my way to real errors.

Hello, Zeel Mark II.

Why are gays and lesbians supposed to be treated differently? Is it because girl on girl is hot? Or because it's not rape if it's the woman who is the aggressor? This is a very close-minded view on the matter, which is hurtful and condescending to the victims of exactly this. It is a real issue that people need to be aware of and you "just not seeing it" is one of the problems.

I didn't see a single study that "confirms" gay men as being more likely to be also paedophiles. I have no idea where you get this statistic from, but most definitely not from any real science. Provide the necessary documentation for this claim, otherwise this is just a nasty rumor.

Also, sexual orientation is absolutely NO basis for handing out sex offender tags, which you are trying to suggest.

Therumancer:
[The] reality is that gay men ARE more likely to attack children than just about any other group.

You go ahead and provide peer reviewed research that proves that. I'll wait.

While I'm waiting (I'll be doing so permanently) I'll remind you that the parents of children are the most likely to abuse them. Yes, the heterosexual couple that had sex and created the child. Look it up while you're doing the research mentioned above.

I look forward to your apology or excuses and rhetoric.

Loethlin:
? Or because it's not rape if it's the woman who is the aggressor?

On a related note the FBI did change the definition of rape to include men.

Funny it took till 2012 for that to happen.

Comrade_Beric:

lord.jeff:
I kept watching hoping he'd make his point, but just kept going on and on about gay this and gay that.

The point was in there, buried deep within the quivering bowels of his message. You may need to slide back into the video and search for it again.

You are a devious and sinister individual. I applaud you.

I had fun trying to keep a straight face through the main body of that. Didn't quite make it.

SajuukKhar:
On a related note the US did change the definition of rape to where it is now possible for women to rape men.

Funny it took till 2012 for that to happen.

I am very glad to hear it! Good news! (I'm not a US citizen.)

Varya:

Holy shit, I don't even know where to begin.
I'm just gonna write a few points and then weep for the world a bit.
Pedophilia and homosexuality is NOT the same thing! I'm not gonna claim to be an expert but for pedophiles, the sex of the child is often irrelevant, but as you say, boys are braver, and therefore and easeier target. This does not mean pedophiles are gay.
I'm not even gonna try and debunk your "numbers" here but I'll just say that sexual deviances is more frequent in an evniorment where you're not accepeted as you are, so IF (big if) there's any truth to yuour numbers, it's more than likely the fault of people like you.
Equating homosexualtiy woth pedophilia is fucking disgusting, of course you'll hate gays if you thing that they are the same as pedos, but they're not.
You talk of wanting to cure the gay? News flash, they don't want to be cured and you have no fucking right to inflict your worldview on them (thank god)
And as for wanting to track Gays, holy shit you do realise what you are saying? Ever heard of innocent untill proven guilty? And as for why annyone not a pedo would be upset if they were forbidden to enter a school? How about them beng upset for being singled out and treated as jews in WWII Germany. I normaly try and avoid Goodwin but you speak of making gay's having to be marked as fucking cattle
I realise your problems are too deep to be swayed by a furious guy on a forum, but serIously, get perspective. Go get some facts, a bit of perspective.
People like you make me physically ill, and I try and maintain a civil,tone, but you are talking about some of my friends and family here so it's a bit close to home.

I'll make this one response to this message which pretty much covers the response to all of the similar responses.

Simply put I'm not going to fight this out again, this is a liberal enviroment, I know it, and I'm not going to accomplish anything with such close minded people. I stated that before I said anything and still received insistances I write a response. I should know better than to think people have grown up.

I'll be brutally honest here, your putting words into my mouth as is pretty much everyone responding. One point that seems to be missed is that I never said gay and pedophille are the same, merely that there is a far greater tendency. That's not really a disputable fact either with groups like NAMBLA shouting it from the rooftops, as they insist on rights for pedophilles. That crap you've seen on these forums with people asking the question "do Pedos have the right to exist?" to bring up survivial and then build it into a right to practice over time like other minority groups? That's from NAMBLA's playbook even if it doesn't always go back to them.

What's more I speak from actual experience, as in "I've seen this with my own eyes" and professional training. A lot of people don't want to believe that, or because they happen to be gay and not a pedophille insist it can't be true. I get why, but that just makes you ignorant even if well intentioned. What's more with certain crimes the people who practice them do not generally come out and say so, things like NAMBLA are fairly unusual. Your typical Pedo doesn't look like the movie stereotype, he's basically the ordinary looking, "acceptable" gay dude, and almost guaranteed he says all the right things about hating pedos, and supports the community in exactly the right and acceptable ways. This is why saying it's not true, and producing statistics gather with that specific intent is meaningless.

This is incidently one of the reasons why I have so little respect for liberals on so many levels. The hearts might be in the right place, but common sense does not nessicarly enter into the equasion, and when the people who know, and have actually done things pretty much lay down the way it is, they still insist on being worldly and railing about how it can't possible be true.

Saying people like me are small minded, and "OMG I can't believe people like you exist" actually hurts your cause, because really we're probably the best case scenario. See, reality is about a middle ground, you have two poles to issues. On the gay issue you have the whole pro-gay "gays are wonderful and should be involved in everything, and entitled to all this special treatment and repairations" side on one extreme end, then you have on the other extreme end the people who want to literally make being gay a crime and an immdediate death sentence. I was just reading an article about how Uganda wants to make homosexuality a death penelty offense, and there is enough of a following for the bill to be heard.

Oh wait here is a link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57372796/uganda-anti-gay-death-penalty-bill-reintroduced/

I'm right in the middle. I accept that the extreme anti-gay side is right, there are a lot of problems with homosexuals, albiet they aren't as bad as they let on. I've looked into it and made major concessions such as seperating gays and lesbians as seperate issues, and how not all gay men are pedos, not even the majority, but a humane method of control without removing their basic humanity needs to be found until other solutions present themselves.

In response to the guy who talked about suicide, and what I presented being a death penelty offense and such... no, that's not the case at all. You'll notice I mentioned under my theory registration without tracking. The idea being that your neighbors are not going to be informed "so and so is gay" only specific authorities. What's more they are only prevented in going to a very limited number of areas, and again unless they go to one of those places, there isn't going to be any kind of issue. If you just want to do it with adults and mind your own business it's no big deal. Opposing that is almost admitting you have a creepy desire to be around kids. What's more if you don't care about people knowing your gay, WTF
do you care if the authorities are informed?

See, I'm the counterpoint to the ignorant people on both sides, who neither side wants to embrace. The actual hardcore anti-gsy person, considers me a freak who wants to protect and coddle homosexual aberrants as I'm acknowleging their fundemental humanity and right to exist because you can't exterminate them for being differant, or because of certain tendencies that aren't even nessicarly present in the majority. To the gay rights movement and liberal supporters I'm hated because I don't think homosexuality should be plastered into every aspect of society, and that all the negatives should be presented as lies and ignored or covered up for the greater good.

What's more, like it or not, mine is the most peaceful solution. See in the long run a success by either side leads to a lot of violence. Gays ever get into society to the extent they want in such a permanant fashion, the hardcore anti-gay movement... and it's as huge as the liberals are, are going to declare the system to have failed and take matters into their own hands. Enter pogroms of genocide and large scale organized violence. You might think the current stuff is a big deal, it's nothing. If the anti-gay movement wins, well look at what Uganda wants. In a country like the US, my position is one that neither side will be happy with, but both could ultimatly live with.

Also for the record, you are correct that for someone who is a sexual deviant, it's normal and natural for them. Someone who is gay and reacts chemically to their own gender does not want to be cured and sees nothing wrong with it, just as those who are into things like scat don't. Those gays who aren't attracted to children likewise can't understand the compulsion much like someone who isn't wired for a specific orientation can't understand it. This is one of the reasons why I mention an eventual "cure" would likely not take place in the form of gays being run down and jabbed with needles or locked in hospitals, but rather corrected as a part of general medical science. Basically a developing baby who would be born with abnormalities in it's chemical system causing it to be attracted to it's own gender, would simply have them set to the normal path and thus be born heterosexual. Gays wouldn't be hunted down, there simply wouldn't be any more of them born, largely dealing with the problem.... again you kind of jumped onto your rhetoric and didn't read what I actually said.

Now I understand you and others won't like this, but I'll say it flat out there is no point in argueing with me. Both sides here (mine and yours) are pretty much set. This is why I mostly keep my conversations to gaming even when it touches on stuff like this. I'm not going to respond and argue, already been there a few times on these forums. Likewise I already know you think I'm a reprehensible human being (ditto for most everyone else who already responding) so I really don't need you to actually say, or re-state it.

In the long run though I do think you'll be happy for the middle ground, even if you don't see it now. Overall I'd save most of your energy for the crap happening in places like Uganda where both you and people like me generally agree. That's your actual enemy and the kind of outlook you need to worry about.

Therumancer:
I was just reading an article about how Uganda wants to make homosexuality a death penelty offense, and there is enough of a following for the bill to be heard.

Oh wait here is a link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57372796/uganda-anti-gay-death-penalty-bill-reintroduced/

Uganda? Oh yeah, I remember what they have against gays. They eat da poo poo.

Honestly, you're backing up your argument with THAT?
Oh man... I'd laugh but it's so sad, really.

Incidentally, still waiting on the source of your claim that gay men are far more likely to molest children than anyone else. But it looks like it'll be a long wait.

geier:
This was the first Jimquisition that was to boring to watch, i skipped in 30 second steps.

Did the feelings he awoke within you scare you? Don't be afraid, give in to your feelings.

Anyway, funny. Sad so many people can't handle even the choice to be gay in the game. Not forced to be gay, to have the choice.

Therumancer:

Tanakh:

Therumancer:
-snip-

I am not particulary trilled by a gay shepard, my problem is that it feels like retconning. I also don't like the video, between EA's buisness practices and the whole Hepler's issue, gay shep feels like the less important of ME3 you can talk.

That said, if you are going to have a "romance" option on a videogame and it includes woman-man, woman-alien woman, man-woman; it's only natural to have man-man, it has nothing to do with left or right wings or with entitlement, with your players being gay or straight (I like pussy, not even going to say women, because at this point in life I am just looking for their body without any commitment due me sucking hard when i try to commit; but as an ex-tabletop RPG veteran i have played both girls and guys with every sexual orientation quite well, or at least thats what the other players tell me). It has nothing to do with being entitled, lesbians are even less common than gays and you didn't saw this for the fem shep on hot pice of blue ass action, it just makes it has more choices and be more free, maybe deeper for some RPG plots, to have a gay shep.

As for being liberal... that might be, but not because liberals are soo interested in what their male voters do with their asses, instead it has more to do with republicans being interested in such subjects; liberals don't run on "you have the right of inserting a dick up your ass", it's republicans that run on the "gays are evelspaws trying to destroy our lifestyle" forcing liberals to take a stand on that (and surprisingly the normaly pussy liberals grow the balls to take a stand there).

As for the 0.1% gays, shrug, as a teen always thought the 30% gay pop that gays say was way over the top, that it was 1% was more the right number. Then went to study math, and there, among my math friends 23% is gay so... no wonder math keeps it's population low! lolz.

Summarizing, I agree with you, but not with your reasons, actually think they are wrong :P

Edit: Also OMFG! As a non english speaker nor gay dude, the use of the sustantives in such ways!!!! Silky.... WTF... my ears -.-''
Didn't liked it, but good work Jim.

*Snip*

As far as Mass Effect goes, what you are talking about IS entitlement though. See if your saying that they have all of these othr sexual behaviors (hetero, alien, lesbian) they need to have gay men too, that's entitlement by definition... when you say they HAVE or NEED to be represented. What's more, by that logic your argueing that every sexual deviation NEEDS to be covered if any are going to be. In this case "deviation" is anything other than the norm, which is homosexuality of either flavor. See, to a gay man what he is, is normal, but the same can be said of someone into say scat, extreme bondage, or a furry or whatever. Saying that the gay man should be able to find appropriate content that stimulates him is like saying that there should be an option to have Kelly ride Shepard around his quarters with a riding crop for those submissives out there who can't get it off any other way, or scat play as an option added into the romantic dialogues, or getting Miranda to enter the bedroom in a Girrafe themed fursuit, or whatever.... it never ends, which is why a minority should never be considered entitled to anything, if the writers put something there so be it, if not then just let it go, leave it to them, not political demands.

*Snip*

This is the fundamental flaw with your argument, you presume that homosexuals want these gay romances in place for their sexual stimulation. This is patently ridiculous; has anyone ever jerked off to a Mass Effect sex scene other than for the slightly ironic joy of seeing if they could? That's what separates this from the examples of fetishes which keep getting thrown about; this is a change that is designed to make a relationship for more relatable for a certain portion of the audience and an interesting alternative storyline for others. Including someone's sexual fetishes as an option may make it marginally easier to relate to the story, but not compared to the far larger difference that genders make which is why homosexuality is worth the trouble but individual fetishes aren't (having said that I would have no problem with some company sitting down and making the experience really customisable). If, on the other hand, you don't agree that the genders of those involved in a relationship have any bearing on your ability to relate to it, then it logically follows that you don't care at all about the orientation of these in-game relations... When you clearly do.

Also in your last point you still haven't answered the more important points; that no young children exhibit masculine qualities that would make them attractive to homosexual men so the choice of gender is moot (see also prison rape), that you have yet to provide anything more than anecdotal evidence, and that even if all your claims are true you have merely demonstrated correlation, not causation.

Some further arguments I have a problem with:

1) It's a retcon
Only under the logic that male Shepard might have had sex with a woman at some point and is therefore completely straight. The presence or absence of sexually available members of the group you are attracted does not change your sexuality. Heck, me might just be bisexual. Can that be ruled out? No.

Secondly, it's entirely possible for FemShep to be a lesbian when she is to all intents and purposes a mirror image of MaleShep. And even putting Kelly aside, don't give me that "Asari are genderless" crap. By that logic if Asari reproduction instead functioned by taking a DNA sample by inserting a phallic member into whatever orifice is available (which I feel like mentioning because it actually sounds far more plausible) then you'd happily have MaleShep either bent over or on his knees and taking it like a champ if Liara tempted you at all.

2) It's a waste of resources
No more so than any other romance path, dialogue tree, side missions or any kind of content at all. If we're going to go down that path then we're going to have re-evaluate the worth of everything put into the game and only save what we decree is worth most... Which is impossible to ultimately decide anyway.

Loethlin:

Therumancer:
I was just reading an article about how Uganda wants to make homosexuality a death penelty offense, and there is enough of a following for the bill to be heard.

Oh wait here is a link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57372796/uganda-anti-gay-death-penalty-bill-reintroduced/

Uganda? Oh yeah, I remember what they have against gays. They eat da poo poo.

Honestly, you're backing up your argument with THAT?
Oh man... I'd laugh but it's so sad, really.

Alright, I guess I'll write another one.

Actually read what I wrote for a change, and the reason for posting that and what it was reinforcing. Actually your pretty sad if you think that's a rebuttal, not that I'm argueing any further. Your sort of like the guy whose best response was to start demanding peer reviewed sources which is laugh worthy on any big issue which wouldn't be an issue in that case.

See that's why I don't bother, we've been down this before. People don't read what I actually say because they aren't really interested in the issue. Try to ignore you know... real experience and training, beat up some straw men that have nothing to do with what I actually said, put words into my mouth, and all of that... when really it basically amounts to "noes! I can't accept that because I want to believe something differant".

I doubt even one person here argueing with me has even ever called one of NAMBLA's websites to do even the most cursory research into the accusations of the other side. What's more it's pretty sad when your basically trying to argue with a guy who has actually been there first hand and arguably could be considered an authority (if a minor one) because of it. I'm pretty much the guy your guy doing a paper for peer review would go to for information having been there and cite as a source for his research since another academic with the time could probably verify my employment, the fact that I had training, etc. I can't say a casino would ever release reports, but there are those on file in a storeroom somewhere too providing mountains of documentation about the crud that's happened with just the security department in one casino.

At any rate that's pretty much why I back away, there is no point to putting the effort into it. I think I'll probably delete the rest of the responses I get in this thread because they are going to be predictable and move onto something gaming related.

Things DO recur in these forums, so if you do come up with something other than the usual, you know not sitting there and saying that my facts must be flawed because they don't match what you want to believe, and other things, you'll probably have a chance for me to read it then.

I should have known better than to ever take this request again.

Therumancer:

Varya:

Holy shit, I don't even know where to begin.
I'm just gonna write a few points and then weep for the world a bit.
Pedophilia and homosexuality is NOT the same thing! I'm not gonna claim to be an expert but for pedophiles, the sex of the child is often irrelevant, but as you say, boys are braver, and therefore and easeier target. This does not mean pedophiles are gay.
I'm not even gonna try and debunk your "numbers" here but I'll just say that sexual deviances is more frequent in an evniorment where you're not accepeted as you are, so IF (big if) there's any truth to yuour numbers, it's more than likely the fault of people like you.
Equating homosexualtiy woth pedophilia is fucking disgusting, of course you'll hate gays if you thing that they are the same as pedos, but they're not.
You talk of wanting to cure the gay? News flash, they don't want to be cured and you have no fucking right to inflict your worldview on them (thank god)
And as for wanting to track Gays, holy shit you do realise what you are saying? Ever heard of innocent untill proven guilty? And as for why annyone not a pedo would be upset if they were forbidden to enter a school? How about them beng upset for being singled out and treated as jews in WWII Germany. I normaly try and avoid Goodwin but you speak of making gay's having to be marked as fucking cattle
I realise your problems are too deep to be swayed by a furious guy on a forum, but serIously, get perspective. Go get some facts, a bit of perspective.
People like you make me physically ill, and I try and maintain a civil,tone, but you are talking about some of my friends and family here so it's a bit close to home.

I'll make this one response to this message which pretty much covers the response to all of the similar responses.

Simply put I'm not going to fight this out again, this is a liberal enviroment, I know it, and I'm not going to accomplish anything with such close minded people. I stated that before I said anything and still received insistances I write a response. I should know better than to think people have grown up.

I'll be brutally honest here, your putting words into my mouth as is pretty much everyone responding. One point that seems to be missed is that I never said gay and pedophille are the same, merely that there is a far greater tendency. That's not really a disputable fact either with groups like NAMBLA shouting it from the rooftops, as they insist on rights for pedophilles. That crap you've seen on these forums with people asking the question "do Pedos have the right to exist?" to bring up survivial and then build it into a right to practice over time like other minority groups? That's from NAMBLA's playbook even if it doesn't always go back to them.

What's more I speak from actual experience, as in "I've seen this with my own eyes" and professional training. A lot of people don't want to believe that, or because they happen to be gay and not a pedophille insist it can't be true. I get why, but that just makes you ignorant even if well intentioned. What's more with certain crimes the people who practice them do not generally come out and say so, things like NAMBLA are fairly unusual. Your typical Pedo doesn't look like the movie stereotype, he's basically the ordinary looking, "acceptable" gay dude, and almost guaranteed he says all the right things about hating pedos, and supports the community in exactly the right and acceptable ways. This is why saying it's not true, and producing statistics gather with that specific intent is meaningless.

This is incidently one of the reasons why I have so little respect for liberals on so many levels. The hearts might be in the right place, but common sense does not nessicarly enter into the equasion, and when the people who know, and have actually done things pretty much lay down the way it is, they still insist on being worldly and railing about how it can't possible be true.

Saying people like me are small minded, and "OMG I can't believe people like you exist" actually hurts your cause, because really we're probably the best case scenario. See, reality is about a middle ground, you have two poles to issues. On the gay issue you have the whole pro-gay "gays are wonderful and should be involved in everything, and entitled to all this special treatment and repairations" side on one extreme end, then you have on the other extreme end the people who want to literally make being gay a crime and an immdediate death sentence. I was just reading an article about how Uganda wants to make homosexuality a death penelty offense, and there is enough of a following for the bill to be heard.

Oh wait here is a link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57372796/uganda-anti-gay-death-penalty-bill-reintroduced/

I'm right in the middle. I accept that the extreme anti-gay side is right, there are a lot of problems with homosexuals, albiet they aren't as bad as they let on. I've looked into it and made major concessions such as seperating gays and lesbians as seperate issues, and how not all gay men are pedos, not even the majority, but a humane method of control without removing their basic humanity needs to be found until other solutions present themselves.

In response to the guy who talked about suicide, and what I presented being a death penelty offense and such... no, that's not the case at all. You'll notice I mentioned under my theory registration without tracking. The idea being that your neighbors are not going to be informed "so and so is gay" only specific authorities. What's more they are only prevented in going to a very limited number of areas, and again unless they go to one of those places, there isn't going to be any kind of issue. If you just want to do it with adults and mind your own business it's no big deal. Opposing that is almost admitting you have a creepy desire to be around kids. What's more if you don't care about people knowing your gay, WTF
do you care if the authorities are informed?

See, I'm the counterpoint to the ignorant people on both sides, who neither side wants to embrace. The actual hardcore anti-gsy person, considers me a freak who wants to protect and coddle homosexual aberrants as I'm acknowleging their fundemental humanity and right to exist because you can't exterminate them for being differant, or because of certain tendencies that aren't even nessicarly present in the majority. To the gay rights movement and liberal supporters I'm hated because I don't think homosexuality should be plastered into every aspect of society, and that all the negatives should be presented as lies and ignored or covered up for the greater good.

What's more, like it or not, mine is the most peaceful solution. See in the long run a success by either side leads to a lot of violence. Gays ever get into society to the extent they want in such a permanant fashion, the hardcore anti-gay movement... and it's as huge as the liberals are, are going to declare the system to have failed and take matters into their own hands. Enter pogroms of genocide and large scale organized violence. You might think the current stuff is a big deal, it's nothing. If the anti-gay movement wins, well look at what Uganda wants. In a country like the US, my position is one that neither side will be happy with, but both could ultimatly live with.

Also for the record, you are correct that for someone who is a sexual deviant, it's normal and natural for them. Someone who is gay and reacts chemically to their own gender does not want to be cured and sees nothing wrong with it, just as those who are into things like scat don't. Those gays who aren't attracted to children likewise can't understand the compulsion much like someone who isn't wired for a specific orientation can't understand it. This is one of the reasons why I mention an eventual "cure" would likely not take place in the form of gays being run down and jabbed with needles or locked in hospitals, but rather corrected as a part of general medical science. Basically a developing baby who would be born with abnormalities in it's chemical system causing it to be attracted to it's own gender, would simply have them set to the normal path and thus be born heterosexual. Gays wouldn't be hunted down, there simply wouldn't be any more of them born, largely dealing with the problem.... again you kind of jumped onto your rhetoric and didn't read what I actually said.

Now I understand you and others won't like this, but I'll say it flat out there is no point in argueing with me. Both sides here (mine and yours) are pretty much set. This is why I mostly keep my conversations to gaming even when it touches on stuff like this. I'm not going to respond and argue, already been there a few times on these forums. Likewise I already know you think I'm a reprehensible human being (ditto for most everyone else who already responding) so I really don't need you to actually say, or re-state it.

In the long run though I do think you'll be happy for the middle ground, even if you don't see it now. Overall I'd save most of your energy for the crap happening in places like Uganda where both you and people like me generally agree. That's your actual enemy and the kind of outlook you need to worry about.

There is soooo much wrong with what you have written. One, you don't have a citation for your claim that "many" homosexuals are pedophiles. This is an old trick in the anti-gay playbook, to link homosexuality and pedophilia despite no documented link actually existing outside of a few sick people's minds (hint, this is you). There have been in the past flawed methodologies that would consider an adult who molested a child of the same sex to have committed "homosexual molestation" when in fact he has no sexual interest in adult males. Here is a good resource for information on this topic that DOES cite sources:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
"Gays ever get into society to the extent they want in such a permanant fashion, the hardcore anti-gay movement... and it's as huge as the liberals are, are going to declare the system to have failed and take matters into their own hands."
This is a false assertion. Attitudes on homosexuality are most permissive than ever. If you look at the Gallup poll results asking if homosexuality is morally wrong or morally acceptable you'll see that 2009 saw for the first time the majority of Americans say it was morally acceptable and in 2010 the gap widened even larger, 52% saying it was morally acceptable and 43% morally wrong. Link:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/135764/americans-acceptance-gay-relations-crosses-threshold.aspx
There are more touching on the questions of equal rights, acceptability, and legality. All show a trend towards the more accepting point of view:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx
To think that there will be some sort of sectarian violence in America should homosexuality "get into society to the extent they want in such a permanant fashion", whatever that even means, is preposterous.
Really I could sit here and pick your post apart piece by piece but that would take way too much time for a post with far too little actual substance to it. If you are going to post bigoted opinions at least try and back up your opinions with a little fact checking, ok?

Therumancer:
More bullshit claims.

So, you're an authority? Have you been touched by a grown-up as a child, that you claim to be the appropriate source of citations in a science paper on paedophiles?
Well, in my line of work (I'm a psychologist. Meaning, someone who actually writes these kinds of papers), I saw all kinds of perverts and I can tell you, statistically, no sexual orientation is more or less prone to being sexual deviants. Some my be louder about it, however.
Look, if this is your attempt at a soapbox speech on paedophilia, it's the wrong place and wrong topic.
Noone's questioning those sick fucks from NAMBLA, in case you didn't notice. And I'll tell you why. Because they're sick fucks and all of them need to get vanned. Everyone knows that. Noone's defending them.

And on that note, I'm done. I have no patience nor time to go into debates with narrow-minded demagogues like yourself. Good day, sir.

Xanthious:

xXxJessicaxXx:

Xanthious:

In a game they are exactly the same. Just ones and zeros. In reality there may be but in a game all that changes is the pixels. Again, why does one minority group deserve special treatment over any other. I say accommodate em all.

No they aren't, otherwise there wouldn't be rules about putting such things in games. It isn't illegal to show homosexuality.

Thete are no such rules in place. In the US that'd all be covered by freedom of expression.

What gets me is the same people who celebrated getting a gay Shepard are showing just how hypocritical they are. You wanted the line pushed forward and attacked those that wanted to keep it where it was. Now that you got what you want you are all for denying people the same thing. Why is it that you get say on what should or shouldn't be put in the game when you've already forced your options on others.

Because homosexuality is completely different from those other things, as I have said before, so it isn't hypocritical.

You don't have a point because you are trying to say something that is completely different is the same.

You honestly think that pedophilia is the same as homosexuality? Really? Have you absolutely no clue about what pedophilia is at all?

You might have a point if we were all sitting here defending 'Rapelay' but since we aren't your argument doesn't hold weight.

Loethlin:

Therumancer:
I was just reading an article about how Uganda wants to make homosexuality a death penelty offense, and there is enough of a following for the bill to be heard.

Oh wait here is a link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57372796/uganda-anti-gay-death-penalty-bill-reintroduced/

Uganda? Oh yeah, I remember what they have against gays. They eat da poo poo.

Honestly, you're backing up your argument with THAT?
Oh man... I'd laugh but it's so sad, really.

Incidentally, still waiting on the source of your claim that gay men are far more likely to molest children than anyone else. But it looks like it'll be a long wait.

Not really related to the forum drama, but I just wanted to say thank you for posting that video. I don't know if it's just his accent, but the way he describes all that had me in in literal tears of laughter. Terrible to say because he's serious, but still... da poo poo!!!

Anyway... my my Mr. Sterling, you're giving me a case of the vapours. I just can't stop thinking about Wrex's quad now... and I used to be such a Tali fan.

Loved every minute of it, it was hilarious throughout and it was educational, too! I now know three new words for penis.

SajuukKhar:

xXxJessicaxXx:
No they aren't, otherwise there wouldn't be rules about putting such things in games. It isn't illegal to show homosexuality.

You are aware rules and laws are constantly changing and altering to the current norm and that just because RIGHT NOW there is a rule about it =/= it is necessarily "right"?

there were once laws saying people could be enslaved
there were once rules saying women weren't people
etc. etc.
and they all changed

Not that I want that stuff in game myself, I am just pointing that out.

If you think that one day child rape will be acceptable then I really don't know what to say to you.

I really don't...

Ok, this was really, really funny. But did I miss something? I thought people were just going nuts over the DLC thing (slightly understandable), I haven't really noticed any ''Oh noes, da Shepard are teh gayz!'', so why now if I may ask? Sure a nice Video, hopefully however not one that any of us can really learn much of anything from.

________________

Well, while I'm here, I'll toss in a little story.

So, I normally don't really Roleplay correctly, but on my second playthrough of Skyrim I decided to do just that.

So I made a High Elf and tried to make her look as human as possible, you see, her mother was a high elf and her father was a Nord. Having been born around the time of the War, her Father was killed, not by Thalmor, but by his fellow Nords who deemed him a traitor. The Thalmor however were no better, they couldn't accept that her mother had bred with what they considered a lower form of life, thus Thealda (my Char) wasn't excepted either.

As to save everyone who isn't reading this a little time, she is essentially a person with no place whatsoever in Skyrim, the Nords don't like her because she still very much looks like a High Elf and is a magic user, the Thalmor don't either because of what she is aswell. Her life has essentially been a struggle to find her place in the world. Oh and also she is a Lesbian or at the very least bi-curious, she hasn't actually done anything with anyone, but she has a crush on Aela the Huntress (I plan on eventually having them marry once I get around to doing the rest of the Companion Quests). Yes, I also have a reason why she is a ''lesbian'' the idea is essentially that these are also very new feelings for her, basically, despite being the Dragonborn and the Archmage and what not, she is very insecure and Aela made her feel good about herself and she started having strange feelings, so she is in the closet, she just isn't even sure about that herself yet.

So far I've been enjoying this, sometimes I do drop my role, but it's nice to have a good reason to try and look at things from the other side. Maybe I'll do a gay man sometime, but I do have to admit that I am less interested by the sexuality side of my little story then I am with the whole ''no place in the world part'' pretty much because the sexuality part will probably force me to pretend things happenend that can't happen in the Game.

___________________

Why do people even argue with this Therumancer guy? He's always saying batshit insane stuff, for fucks sake, he thinks the solution to every problem America has is to invade some other country, do you really think that kind of person is going to have a sensible opinion on any matter of society?

Therumancer:

I'll make this one response to this message which pretty much covers the response to all of the similar responses.

Simply put I'm not going to fight this out again, this is a liberal enviroment, I know it, and I'm not going to accomplish anything with such close minded people. I stated that before I said anything and still received insistances I write a response. I should know better than to think people have grown up.

There is a difference between close-mindedness and skepticism.

Therumancer:
What's more I speak from actual experience, as in "I've seen this with my own eyes" and professional training. A lot of people don't want to believe that, or because they happen to be gay and not a pedophille insist it can't be true. I get why, but that just makes you ignorant even if well intentioned. What's more with certain crimes the people who practice them do not generally come out and say so, things like NAMBLA are fairly unusual. Your typical Pedo doesn't look like the movie stereotype, he's basically the ordinary looking, "acceptable" gay dude, and almost guaranteed he says all the right things about hating pedos, and supports the community in exactly the right and acceptable ways. This is why saying it's not true, and producing statistics gather with that specific intent is meaningless.

Again, anecdotal evidence does not prove the existence of wider trends. One of my female friends once complained to me that each of the four men she had slept with suffered from a sexual dysfunction. Does that prove that we are experiencing an epidemic of sexual dysfunction? Of course it does not, don't be foolish.

Whatever the typical pedophile looks like or acts like is irrelevant. The question here is whether or not gay men are more likely to be pedophiles than straight men.

You seem to be asserting that there is a conspiracy to suppress all scientific studies and statistics that show a link between homosexuality and pedophilia. Even for a conspiracy theory this is patently ludicrous. Consider that even the fairly fringe intelligent design crowd has been able to at least produce a few papers and as you correctly say there are very large groups of people who detest homosexuals. By the way, your claim is nothing new. Back in the 50s homosexuality and pedophilia were seen as intrinsically related:


Were not studies done in the 50s when your idea was so popular? Surely these studies from before this time of apparently dominant liberalism would show the truth of your claims.

Therumancer:
This is incidently one of the reasons why I have so little respect for liberals on so many levels. The hearts might be in the right place, but common sense does not nessicarly enter into the equasion, and when the people who know, and have actually done things pretty much lay down the way it is, they still insist on being worldly and railing about how it can't possible be true.

Sir, I am primarily a skeptic which means that I need more than anecdotes to convince me. I consider myself to be an open-minded individual and I promise that if you provide sufficient evidence I will agree with you.

Therumancer:
Saying people like me are small minded, and "OMG I can't believe people like you exist" actually hurts your cause, because really we're probably the best case scenario. See, reality is about a middle ground, you have two poles to issues. On the gay issue you have the whole pro-gay "gays are wonderful and should be involved in everything, and entitled to all this special treatment and repairations" side on one extreme end, then you have on the other extreme end the people who want to literally make being gay a crime and an immdediate death sentence. I was just reading an article about how Uganda wants to make homosexuality a death penelty offense, and there is enough of a following for the bill to be heard.

Oh wait here is a link

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57372796/uganda-anti-gay-death-penalty-bill-reintroduced/

Currently, I feel that gays should be treated exactly the same as heterosexuals. Convince that I'm wrong. I dare you.

Therumancer:
In response to the guy who talked about suicide, and what I presented being a death penelty offense and such... no, that's not the case at all. You'll notice I mentioned under my theory registration without tracking. The idea being that your neighbors are not going to be informed "so and so is gay" only specific authorities. What's more they are only prevented in going to a very limited number of areas, and again unless they go to one of those places, there isn't going to be any kind of issue. If you just want to do it with adults and mind your own business it's no big deal. Opposing that is almost admitting you have a creepy desire to be around kids. What's more if you don't care about people knowing your gay, WTF
do you care if the authorities are informed?

Well, it's a privacy issue. I believe that the government has no business in the bedroom of consenting adults. For a conservative you certainly like to advocate very big government.

About this discrimination thing. How would you tell who was gay. Would you station cops outside schools carding every adult who enters? You do realize that this would prevent gay people from becoming teachers or working at quite a number of places. What constitutes a place with children? Would you ban gay men from going to McDonalds because of the playpen? Why do you believe that officially designating gay men as second-class citizens would not lead to social oppression in the adult world as well?

Therumancer:
See, I'm the counterpoint to the ignorant people on both sides, who neither side wants to embrace. The actual hardcore anti-gsy person, considers me a freak who wants to protect and coddle homosexual aberrants as I'm acknowleging their fundemental humanity and right to exist because you can't exterminate them for being differant, or because of certain tendencies that aren't even nessicarly present in the majority. To the gay rights movement and liberal supporters I'm hated because I don't think homosexuality should be plastered into every aspect of society, and that all the negatives should be presented as lies and ignored or covered up for the greater good.

Gay men have zero darwinian fitness and have much less available sexual partners than straight men. There, those are some negatives albeit minor ones.

By saying that you hate the Gay Rights movement you are implying that gays should not have the right to marry each other. If this is correct then why do you believe this? Even if gays are more likely to be pedophiles, what harm does gay marriage between consenting adults cause?

Therumancer:
What's more, like it or not, mine is the most peaceful solution. See in the long run a success by either side leads to a lot of violence. Gays ever get into society to the extent they want in such a permanant fashion, the hardcore anti-gay movement... and it's as huge as the liberals are, are going to declare the system to have failed and take matters into their own hands. Enter pogroms of genocide and large scale organized violence. You might think the current stuff is a big deal, it's nothing. If the anti-gay movement wins, well look at what Uganda wants. In a country like the US, my position is one that neither side will be happy with, but both could ultimatly live with.

So, society accepting gays will cause society to kill all gays? What?

Therumancer:
Also for the record, you are correct that for someone who is a sexual deviant, it's normal and natural for them. Someone who is gay and reacts chemically to their own gender does not want to be cured and sees nothing wrong with it, just as those who are into things like scat don't. Those gays who aren't attracted to children likewise can't understand the compulsion much like someone who isn't wired for a specific orientation can't understand it. This is one of the reasons why I mention an eventual "cure" would likely not take place in the form of gays being run down and jabbed with needles or locked in hospitals, but rather corrected as a part of general medical science. Basically a developing baby who would be born with abnormalities in it's chemical system causing it to be attracted to it's own gender, would simply have them set to the normal path and thus be born heterosexual. Gays wouldn't be hunted down, there simply wouldn't be any more of them born, largely dealing with the problem.... again you kind of jumped onto your rhetoric and didn't read what I actually said.

Ah, eugenics. Well then, what happens if a couple does not want this procedure to be performed? If medical science does advance to this point then why do you advocate eliminating homosexuality when such advanced technology could merely eliminate pedophilia? You have said that the only qualm you have with gays is that you think they are quite likely to be pedophiles.

Therumancer:
Now I understand you and others won't like this, but I'll say it flat out there is no point in argueing with me. Both sides here (mine and yours) are pretty much set. This is why I mostly keep my conversations to gaming even when it touches on stuff like this. I'm not going to respond and argue, already been there a few times on these forums. Likewise I already know you think I'm a reprehensible human being (ditto for most everyone else who already responding) so I really don't need you to actually say, or re-state it.

Hold on, first you accuse liberals of being close-minded and now you say that you're set in your opinion. Methinks being set in your opinion and unwilling to discuss it is the definition of close-mindedness.

By the way, how do you manage to be so very verbose?

I....

What did I just watch.

--

Therumancer:

Alright, I guess I'll write another one.

Me too, I guess.

Therumancer:
Actually read what I wrote for a change, and the reason for posting that and what it was reinforcing. Actually your pretty sad if you think that's a rebuttal, not that I'm argueing any further. Your sort of like the guy whose best response was to start demanding peer reviewed sources which is laugh worthy on any big issue which wouldn't be an issue in that case.

"Your sort of like the guy whose best response was to start demanding peer reviewed sources which is laugh worthy on any big issue which wouldn't be an issue in that case." I'm terribly sorry. I have no idea what this sentence means. Please try for quality instead of quantity in the future.

Therumancer:

See that's why I don't bother, we've been down this before. People don't read what I actually say because they aren't really interested in the issue. Try to ignore you know... real experience and training, beat up some straw men that have nothing to do with what I actually said, put words into my mouth, and all of that... when really it basically amounts to "noes! I can't accept that because I want to believe something differant".

I'm reading what you say and obviously I'm interested in this. You've brought me out of lurking. Let's have a discussion.

Therumancer:
I doubt even one person here argueing with me has even ever called one of NAMBLA's websites to do even the most cursory research into the accusations of the other side. What's more it's pretty sad when your basically trying to argue with a guy who has actually been there first hand and arguably could be considered an authority (if a minor one) because of it. I'm pretty much the guy your guy doing a paper for peer review would go to for information having been there and cite as a source for his research since another academic with the time could probably verify my employment, the fact that I had training, etc. I can't say a casino would ever release reports, but there are those on file in a storeroom somewhere too providing mountains of documentation about the crud that's happened with just the security department in one casino.

That's not how science works. Scientists don't just talk to experts. They actually investigate the thing they wish to investigate. A scientist doing research on this subject would investigate the rates of homosexuality among pedophiles instead of just asking for anecdotes from casino security personal. Again, anecdotes do not equal proof.

Therumancer:
At any rate that's pretty much why I back away, there is no point to putting the effort into it. I think I'll probably delete the rest of the responses I get in this thread because they are going to be predictable and move onto something gaming related.

Refusing to defend your viewpoint is a big sign that you are unable to defend your viewpoint.

Therumancer:
Things DO recur in these forums, so if you do come up with something other than the usual, you know not sitting there and saying that my facts must be flawed because they don't match what you want to believe, and other things, you'll probably have a chance for me to read it then.

What are the facts? Give them to me. I want to know them. Show me the proof and I swear that I'll believe you. Please, I want you to prove me wrong. I want to know if I am at fault.

Therumancer:
*ignorant rant*

History is against you.

Science is against you.

Everything in recorded history, humanity and the currently living population is against you and your arrogant "we saw something once, so we know the truth now" ilk.

Bring in religion? It's a man made fallacy, broken and young, created at a time we were too stupid to know any better. Sexuality has outlived it by thousands of years.

Bring in science? By surviving, counter sexuality has already proved you wrong.

All you can cling on anymore is the bitter, ignorant and arrogant position in which you can think that you can tell others how to live their lives.

That's not a liberal stance. That's not a republican stance. That's a HUMAN notion, nothing more, nothing less.

Ah the fun of the situation really :)

I tell you yes people can be retarded, girls kissing and going at it.. WOOOOO two guys kissing and going at it BOOOOO HISSS

Seriously.. if you don't like it don't watch. Here in good old holland we had the first Gay Lovers Scene [very well done for its timeslot obvious] in one of those soap operas.. I don't watch them to little content. But two girls.. no troubles.. two boys..and allot of Boo's.. just shows you how even in holland things are not that far yet.

--

goliath6711:

Rainboq:

DressedInRags:

What, so if a strait femshep decides to bat for the other team in the second installment, that's acceptable?

But when a male Shepard does it, then OMG CONTINUITY FUCKUP?

That makes no sense to me.Is femshep allowed to get away with it because they're more used to seeing girls go both ways in their porn? Has no-body told these people that men can be casually bisexual as well?

Pretty damned spot on, welcome to double standards.

If you wanna grasp onto whatever flimsy straw you can to have this not seem like a last second add-on, go right ahead. I'm not. Also if continuity doesn't matter, then why have the ability to transfer saves from game to game, having decisions from the last affect the outcome of the next?

Thyunda:

Volf:
No I don't think its wrong for a person to have human feelings about how their digital image is being depicted.

Its just like if (hypothetically) the model Jacqui Ainsley didn't like being portrait as a women willing to use her body, I wouldn't try to minimize her feelings.

That's totally different. That's portraying a person as something they're not. But you see, there's this thing called 'acting'. And, since this is a digital representation of a person NOT INTENDED TO BE THE ACTOR, then I can't see any problem with how it's used. Especially since he's not a very distinctive person. If he was instantly recognisable from the image, and it was used as a slight against him, I'd understand it. But to get upset because you're a motion capture for a possibly gay character?
It's not him. It just looks like him. It has no relation to him. It's Captain Shepard. It'd be like saying Gerard Butler is without a doubt a murderer because you saw him in Law Abiding Citizen once. Only...this is actually more far-fetched.

Okay, let's really examine this point. In Law Abiding Citizen, Gerard Butler plays a loving family man who uses his tech knowledge wreak havoc not only on the murderers of his wife and daughter, but pretty much every legal and political official in the city of Philadelphia. Now what if it was decided that that backstory was too boring, so let's say the decision was made to liven it up by having him periodically beat his wife and rape his daughter before their murder. And hey, since Jamie Foxx is playing the lawyer that screwed him over in the case, let's make him a racist too. Now imagine all of this was done without Gerard Butler knowing it. This was all done with dialogue that was dubbed in by a sound-alike in post production editing. They even threw in a couple of scenes with acting doubles for him and Jamie Foxx talking about how the Emancipation Proclamation should be repealed. And he doesn't find out until he sitting at the premiere of the movie with the same wide-eyed expression of shock on his face that the rest of the audience has when they see and hear this. Now I can safely assume that Gerard Butler is not a racist, wife-beating pedophile. But you know what? He also didn't agree to play one in this movie either.

Except one is a disgusting criminal and the other is into a bit of man. And y'know what else? Law Abiding Citizen did not use Gerard Butler's likeness. It used Gerard Butler. Undeniably, inarguably, definitively Gerard Butler.
You seem to miss the distinction between playing a character you don't want to and having a man who kinda looks like you make some G-rated, fade-to-black man love.

Man, I was waiting for the bit where 'Mass Effect 3' fan then realised that he could get around this 'gayness' by having a fem-shep and make her have totally awesome lesbian sex (which we all know is the most heterosexual and manly thing ever), only to come to the horrific realisation that the game has now made him a drag queen.

Hilarious.

I had a straight face until "dick sucking lips".

xXxJessicaxXx:

Xanthious:

xXxJessicaxXx:

No they aren't, otherwise there wouldn't be rules about putting such things in games. It isn't illegal to show homosexuality.

Thete are no such rules in place. In the US that'd all be covered by freedom of expression.

What gets me is the same people who celebrated getting a gay Shepard are showing just how hypocritical they are. You wanted the line pushed forward and attacked those that wanted to keep it where it was. Now that you got what you want you are all for denying people the same thing. Why is it that you get say on what should or shouldn't be put in the game when you've already forced your options on others.

Because homosexuality is completely different from those other things, as I have said before, so it isn't hypocritical.

You don't have a point because you are trying to say something that is completely different is the same.

You honestly think that pedophilia is the same as homosexuality? Really? Have you absolutely no clue about what pedophilia is at all?

You might have a point if we were all sitting here defending 'Rapelay' but since we aren't your argument doesn't hold weight.

Well obviously you must be worried that having those things in the game are going to turn you into a pedophile or someone who likes them some bestiality. Because that's the only reason you could possibly find those things objectionable.

Now obviously only a fucking helmet wearing imbecile would try and make that point above in the argument whether to or to not include a pedophilia and bestiality in ME3. However, this is the same garbage that's being lobbed at the people that don't want the gay Shepards in the game.

Everyone finds different things objectionable. Some people may hold onto more conservative values and think homosexuals are objectionable. Those people have every right to not want a gay Shepard in ME3.

The bottom line is this whole thing stems from a huge problem I have with hypocrisy and double standards rampant in the gay rights crowd. They are the kind of people that think that their morals and values are unquestionably the right ones and attack anyone that has a different set. They babble on about open mindedness and acceptance but are some of the most closed minded people you will ever meet. It bothers me that I'm seeing a good bit of that same hypocrisy and double standards in this argument about ME3 and the gay romance options.

Xanthious:

xXxJessicaxXx:

Xanthious:

Thete are no such rules in place. In the US that'd all be covered by freedom of expression.

What gets me is the same people who celebrated getting a gay Shepard are showing just how hypocritical they are. You wanted the line pushed forward and attacked those that wanted to keep it where it was. Now that you got what you want you are all for denying people the same thing. Why is it that you get say on what should or shouldn't be put in the game when you've already forced your options on others.

Because homosexuality is completely different from those other things, as I have said before, so it isn't hypocritical.

You don't have a point because you are trying to say something that is completely different is the same.

You honestly think that pedophilia is the same as homosexuality? Really? Have you absolutely no clue about what pedophilia is at all?

You might have a point if we were all sitting here defending 'Rapelay' but since we aren't your argument doesn't hold weight.

Well obviously you must be worried that having those things in the game are going to turn you into a pedophile or someone who likes them some bestiality. Because that's the only reason you could possibly find those things objectionable.

Now obviously only a fucking helmet wearing imbecile would try and make that point above in the argument whether to or to not include a pedophilia and bestiality in ME3. However, this is the same garbage that's being lobbed at the people that don't want the gay Shepards in the game.

Everyone finds different things objectionable. Some people may hold onto more conservative values and think homosexuals are objectionable. Those people have every right to not want a gay Shepard in ME3.

The bottom line is this whole thing stems from a huge problem I have with hypocrisy and double standards rampant in the gay rights crowd. They are the kind of people that think that their morals and values are unquestionably the right ones and attack anyone that has a different set. They babble on about open mindedness and acceptance but are some of the most closed minded people you will ever meet. It bothers me that I'm seeing a good bit of that same hypocrisy and double standards in this argument about ME3 and the gay romance options.

But it's not hypocritical... I just pointed that out.

Subjectivity of morality has nothing to do with it. Raping a child is different from two consenting adults having sex.

I'm not sure how else I can explain this to you. It's not hypocritical because the thing people are defending in this case, homosexuality, is completely different from your example, pedophilia.

One is rape the other is consensual. If we were defending a rapist Shepard you might have a point about hypocrisy but since we aren't, you don't, sorry.

Don't worry Jim, I want to put my pee pee through my ME3 disc-hole too..

This was a brilliant episode, though I am not at all surprised that the point was too subtle for a lot of folks on this site.

I really wish reasonable people would stop engaging the homophobic bigots around here, though. You are validating the existence of their archaic, filthy, barbaric views by even pretending to consider their "points", you know. Fling some peanuts, make monkey sounds, point and laugh, and move on. They're barely worth even that.

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