No Right Answer: Best Animation Style Ever

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Best Animation Style Ever

Alright, it's time to throw down. In a show that's based around settling debates, one question rises again and again; Why does Dan hate Anime? For that matter, why would anyone hate Anime? Oh if only we had a forum where Dan could defend his stance against a bearded, charismatic character and then the best argument could win ... you see where I'm going with this. East vs. West, people, and let the best animation style win!

And don't forget, if you don't understand our decisions or want to have more of our material to complete your shrines to us, Mondays feature a new written companion piece titled No Right Explanation. We dare you to make less sense!

Watch Video

Here I thought this was going to be about Art Style, Gritty, Cell shaded, ect...

I love Dan's argument, well more Chris' reaction to it.

How can you hate ShinChan? That show is hilarious.

My fiancee doesn't like anime (she doesn't like simplistic art styles) but I got her to enjoy Death Note by showing her the live action version instead.

Suggestion: Ghost in the Shell

Both of the movies AND the "Stand Alone Complex" series.

This MAY make you change your mind about anime, Dan.

Funny how the combination of all three major anime tropes turns out to be the greatest Western animated character of all time! And his show is actually animated in Korea! What a crazy world we live in.

I wonder what would count as extremes in Western animation?

How the fuck did Dan get 4 points?
The internet has destroyed debating forever.

I've seen Akira and part of Full Metal Alchemist so Anime sucks.
I've played Call of Duty so First Person Shooters suck.
What's the difference between those two arguments?
Why is one of them acceptable?

Err doesn't Dan know that Digimon is technically Anime?

While I do agreed on both sides, I thought it was going to be a draw but still I don't really care that Westen win (I'm pretty much netural for this episode).

Firefilm:
Best Animation Style Ever

Alright, it's time to throw down. In a show that's based around settling debates, one question rises again and again; Why does Dan hate Anime? For that matter, why would anyone hate Anime? Oh if only we had a forum where Dan could defend his stance against a bearded, charismatic character and then the best argument could win ... you see where I'm going with this. East vs. West, people, and let the best animation style win!

And don't forget, if you don't understand our decisions or want to have more of our material to complete your shrines to us, Mondays feature a new written companion piece titled No Right Explanation. We dare you to make less sense!

Watch Video

I'm going to go out on a limb and say Code Geass. It's a more serious anime so there are very few if not none of the visual animation jokes like the "rain drop", it was an original animations, so unlike DBZ or Naruto it's not based on a manga and as a result they didn't have to extended out episodes with fluff to try to match up with the manga. The animation is good, and it has a very well thought out story.

While we are generalizing everything. Aren't the popular (in the west) Miazaki films all about some sort of girl, then something bad happens to her, then she falls in love, then things get more or less ok but not great?

I'm in Dan's camp on this one. There just isn't much anime that I care for. I appreciate the style. As an artist I can see the amount of work and care that goes into it and it can be awe inspiring. But as a whole, anime holds little appeal for me personally. That's not to say that it's bad or that it has no merit, it's just usually not my cup of tea save for a few exceptions like Samurai Champloo and Cowboy Bebop.

Mikeyfell:
How the fuck did Dan get 4 points?
The internet has destroyed debating forever.

I've seen Akira and part of Full Metal Alchemist so Anime sucks.
I've seen a trailer for Call of Duty so First Person Shooters suck.
What's the difference between those two arguments?
Why is one of them acceptable?

Because games are different than tv/movies. You need to play a game before you can determine whether it or it's genre suck. Also Dan did say that he doesn't really mean all anime sucks, just the stuff he has seen.

A huge point that was overlooked was that anime came about because of Disney cartoons. So western animation, in a sense, created what we know as Anime today.
Probably, would have come about on its own but the fact remains.

The big "rain drop" as you call it is supposed to be a sweat drop and it usually signifies exasperation. You'd have to be an idiot not to be able to figure that out, esp. considering when it appears the character usually has an exasperated and/or annoyed expression on their face to go with it.

Someone suggest Bobobo, so Dan's opinion of anime can be ruined FOREVER.

So western animation is not adult? Check out Batman TAS, JLU, some of the ADD cartoons like Fairy Oddparents, Invader Zim and such. Western animation various from very dark and serious to wacky and still adult (with all the layers in between).

I won't comment on anime though. Can't watch most without breaking into tears... from laughter. I can't take the writing serious (maybe it would change if I would understand a drop japanese. All I hear in dub is people discussing rather passionly their favorite sandwich-making methods and subbed in most cases suffers from difference in grammar and language).

artanis_neravar:

Mikeyfell:
How the fuck did Dan get 4 points?
The internet has destroyed debating forever.

I've seen Akira and part of Full Metal Alchemist so Anime sucks.
I've seen a trailer for Call of Duty so First Person Shooters suck.
What's the difference between those two arguments?
Why is one of them acceptable?

Because games are different than tv/movies. You need to play a game before you can determine whether it or it's genre suck. Also Dan did say that he doesn't really mean all anime sucks, just the stuff he has seen.

So then
I've played Call of Duty, all FPS's suck.
Is that any better?

This is just a bit more personal for me because I've had to deal with "I don't like Anime" people before.

There's the whole Anime is not a genre, it's a medium argument (Which applies to western animation too)
So when somebody says "I don't like Anime" they think they're saying "I don't like Si-fi" when what they're actually saying is "I don't like movies"

Obviously neither one of them should have won because there is No Right Answer but Dan just argued poorly.

GamemasterAnthony:
Suggestion: Ghost in the Shell

Both of the movies AND the "Stand Alone Complex" series.

This MAY make you change your mind about anime, Dan.

I second this.

Ghost in the Shell has very few of the tropes that are in conventional anime.

It's still has robots, but hey, it's the future, and the'ye not as ridiculous as the crap from Gundam.

I don't think you can break it down to just West vs. East. Both "sides" have a huge variety of styles in animation. For example, you couldn't call the style used by Mamoru Oshii (Ghost in the Shell, Jin-Roh) to be the same as the style used Studio Ghibli and if you even think of calling it the same style as Dragonball Z or Sailor Moon, then I'm going to have to introduce you to this here crowbar of mine. On the flip side, can you say with a straight face that even every Disney film has the same animation style? The very premise of this debate is overly broad and therefore flawed at its core.

@Dan: Elfen Lied, partly cause its good, partly cause there's non of the sweat drops and such you hate, and partly cause its short clocking in at 13 eps or so.

and

Vampire Hunter D, the first one. a good, but bloody anime flick

other wise :/ really ... the style that brought us forgettable crap like SPONGE BOB won .... -.- no matter how crappy the anime there's always an over arcing plot, (unless your FLCL or The Excel Saga*) also, Akira and DBZ suck, so it little wonder why Dan doesn't like anime ...

"Anime" really only means animation from Japan. That's pretty broad.
This argument is really "Which is better: Eastern or Western animation"

They are simply too different to properly compare because of differences in culture and subject matter. And although Miyazaki's films are considered "anime", I wouldn't lump them in that category.

This topic was WAY too broad to actually debate. They were just coming up with points that, while valid, never fit within a debate topic. So, as usual, pretty dumb, dull, and unfunny.

But Miyazaki is incredible...

Even removing anime from the equation, "Spirited Away" is my all time favorite movie. It has none of the stereotypes commonly associated with anime and is just generally a very heart warming film. If I had to suggest something to Dan that would be it.

It does have some crazy strange moments but in the context of the movie they make sense and it's never blown way over the top like in Akira or anything. Everything is from the child's perspective so it can be forgiven if things go astray. Give it a shot man, even if you don't like it I imagine it would be way more appealing than what you're used to :)

If you can get behind that then I would also suggest Ergo Proxy, it's a series of roughly 15 episodes and the only time that I can remember it going into WTF-ville is, again, in an episode centered around the child.

Kitsuna10060:
@Dan: Elfen Lied, partly cause its good, partly cause there's non of the sweat drops and such you hate, and partly cause its short clocking in at 13 eps or so.

and

Vampire Hunter D, the first one. a good, but bloody anime flick

other wise :/ really ... the style that brought us forgettable crap like SPONGE BOB won .... -.- no matter how crappy the anime there's always an over arcing plot, (unless your FLCL or The Excel Saga*) also, Akira and DBZ suck, so it little wonder why Dan doesn't like anime ...

Elfen Lied?

Seriously? You mean the series with so much fan service of young characters that it borders on some very dodgy territory?

I like Elfen Lied, it was a good series, but it's hardly a suggestion for someone who hates tradional anime tropes.

Roganzar:
A huge point that was overlooked was that anime came about because of Disney cartoons. So western animation, in a sense, created what we know as Anime today.
Probably, would have come about on its own but the fact remains.

That's not really relevant to deciding which style is overall better. For example, Super Mario 64 came out long before Ratchet & Clank, and probably influenced how it was made. Does that automatically mean Super Mario 64 is the better game? No, you'd have to experience both. Their debate ignores the origins of both styles and instead focuses on content and quality.

When comparing a baby's crying or Mozart's Requieum in D minor Dies Irae, you don't say "Oh, well I'll keep in mind that the fact that crying babies have existed since long before Mozart, and probably influenced him as well, when deciding which is better." You instead, say "Gee, this baby is really getting on my nerves. Time to blast Dies Irae all up in this bitch."

Awesome debate. One of the best you guys have done. But there a few things that I think should be brought up about what you guys said.

Firstly, Howl's Moving Caste was based on a book by a Welsh author, so it's based on western mythology. Several of Studio Ghibli's are based on western mythology, like the new film based on The Borrowers.

Also, what about Genndy Tartakovsky? He's made plenty of animation that isn't cliche and childish and really pushes the envelope, like Samurai Jack. Western animation isn't just Disney and Pixar re-hashing the same old princess stories over and over.

Watch Another tell me you hate Anime.

Heh, the most obvious was clearly almost anything directly done by Miyazaki. Really, really can't go wrong there.

But to be honest, Puella Magi Madoka Magica. It had a great art style, and it seems to start out as a simple, clear cut magical girl anime. But then it completely surprises you in a bunch of ways, and goes pretty in depth into human behavior, and a lot more serious and deep issues then you would expect from an anime of its "type" Its one of my personal favorites, and despite it still having some of the things typical to anime, I would still strongly suggest it.

and yea, technically Digimon was an anime, hell, theres even a Digimon anime series STILL running now, Xros Wars is going strong!

You were arguing content, not animation styles. Two different things. From an objective standpoint, the majority of Anime works off of budgets far lower than western animation, and it really starts to show.

You can argue content all you want, but when it comes down to the mechanics of actual movement and fluidity, the average western cartoon is far more likely to move than the average anime series.

Visual design does factor into animation, as supremely detailed models are hard to render in fluid animation 100% of the time. This is where the anime money shots come from, where an episode will being fairly mediocre in terms of movement until an action scene happens, where you can see what the budget was actually being pumped into.

I'm not saying that Anime is somehow worse than western animation. I've seen shows I liked. However, I will challenge anyone who purports anime to be superior to western because of content. Not because Western is better, but because often the people who make that statement are talking out of their ass.

RaikuFA:
Not gonna watch this one it seems. Dans nothing but a worthless troll.

If you did watch it, you would see that they both make snipes at each other, but both also have valid points.

Watch Usagi Drop - it's an anime about a man raising a girl he adopted. One of the most heartwarming animes I have ever seen. You wont see any of your mentioned cliches and it has a beautiful artstyle.

Mikeyfell:
There's the whole Anime is not a genre, it's a medium argument (Which applies to western animation too)
So when somebody says "I don't like Anime" they think they're saying "I don't like Si-fi" when what they're actually saying is "I don't like movies"

Obviously neither one of them should have won because there is No Right Answer but Dan just argued poorly.

Some people don't like movies. Or books. Or video games. Personally, I don't like drawn animation in general. I will tolerate it if it's awesome, but anything animated (east or west) already starts in a hole for me.

Anime I tend to like even less, and I'll tell you why:

All the stupid meta emotional ticks that most anime use (sweat drop, giants when yelling, etc.). I can be watching an anime and actually enjoying it, but as soon as the female lead pulls a giant hammer out of her ass to beat the male lead with, I turn it off and never return (come on, why doesn't she use that thing when being assaulted by the villain?)

On that note, I've never been a fan of the "woman who berates men into submission even when they don't deserve it" character, which anime tends to be rife with. It can be done well when that's taken as a character flaw for that one character (Nynaeve in Wheel of Time), but when every woman in an anime is this character, they're just being lazy and annoying. Same for the "angry woman traveling with two guys, one straight-laced, the other wild" group.

When I'm watching a movie/tv show, I don't want to read. If I wanted to read, I'd read a book, which I do. Often. In fact, I prefer books over visual media, but I can't always be reading. When I'm watching something, I'm usually doing something else as well (usually programming). And this doesn't work if there are subtitles.

The pacing is usually too slow. I have a similar problem with most British productions (although, this has been changing in recent years). Yes, I'm someone who reads the Wheel of Time books, and I find the pacing of anime too slow.

All that being said, I love Hellsing. I've been getting into Gunslinger Girl (even though it's pacing is slow AND it's subtitled). I remember enjoying Trigun years ago, but I don't think I could watch it again. Cowboy Bebop was okay (though, Toys in the Attic FTW). Claymore was pretty good.

Soviet Heavy:

RaikuFA:
Not gonna watch this one it seems. Dans nothing but a worthless troll.

If you did watch it, you would see that they both make snipes at each other, but both also have valid points.

Whats Dans argument? " ITS FROM JAPAN NOT AMERICA THEREFORE ITS BAD!!!"

The only thing that makes anime hard to watch and why people think it is immature is the amount of ecchi that Anime has to deal with. An example I like to use is Sekirei. The story itself is not that bad. The problem is that if someone walks in as I'm watching Sekirei, they're going to think I'm watching something else completely. So much of it caters to the horny otaku that it makes it difficult for regular people who just want to watch a good story without that awkwardness to just jump in.

And yes, Trigun is an awesome anime. Definitely worth watching.

Im kinda surprised dan doesnt like DBZ but then again i guess that would depend on the episodes hes seen.

Also i dont think disney princess films would work in a collective culture like those fo the east, so you cant really take and apply them there. its easier to do here in the us, and the west because were more individualistic so youre allowed to go out and do your own thing.

anyway, I like shows from both, but I enjoy most anime cause its more not really adult but grown up oriented. Cartoons I see today for the most part are very simplistic and outside of a few shows I look back at with nostalgia, i have a hard time sitting and watching cartoons that arent anime like in style cause I get through about half the half of an episode (thats what seven minutes) and think this is stupid.

Of coures ive seen anime that fall into this category but tehyre lesser in number from what ive seen.

EDIT: and dan should try out speed grapher.

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