Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

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After last week, not sure I even want to click on this one.

image

Well said Jim.

Very well said.

I'm homsosexual Commander Shepard, and this is my favourite video on the escapist.

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

That said excuses debunked in this video are pathetic indeed.
And pedophilia and homosexuality are indeed vastly different things. That said, both are cases of mental disorder but vastly different ones.

But what's most important here is that developers, Bioware, don't owe anything to anyone. If they want to include whatever new content it is entirely up to them. Your only choice is to either buy their game or don't buy it. It's as simple as that. Attacking writers for example is childish and outrageous. You may disagree with them or consider their creation abysmal.. But the only thing you're entitled to is ability to skip their game and don't buy it.

Mental disorder. They are sick in the head. Sir i would kindly request that you gtfo these forums,political/ideological differences are what make this forum great but you describing peoples sexual orientation like its a disease that needs curing for humanity's sake makes me sick. Face it you are just as ignorant and bigoted as the people who compare homosexuals to paedophiles. As jim said if you just said you were homophobic and had personal problems with it thats a position i could understand but to just say nope they are sick and need curing is disgusting.

dtocs:

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

That said excuses debunked in this video are pathetic indeed.
And pedophilia and homosexuality are indeed vastly different things. That said, both are cases of mental disorder but vastly different ones.

Wait, really... Ok ... Lets think about this one...
1)It's normal to want things that make you happy
2) Your sexual organs cant tell the difference between other sexual organs(only your brain can)
3)They respond to physical stimulation
4)Arousal is all in the mind,your mind decides what you like.
5) Using your logic, should we bring it forth that people who only find models attractive are mentally unwell, as well as people who dont want to have sex with fat,disfigured or handicapped people of the opposite gender.
6)or should we say bisexuality, homosexuality and heterosexuality are all normal verations of sexual desire just as we say someone who doesnt find every women attractive isnt mentally unwell.?

I think you are probably wasting your breath trying to take any sense into someone that takes that stance. They typically won't budge.
On topic: Hilarious video. I can't believe anyone has an issue with it. It never bothered me in any other RPGs I've played either. Although, I should add that I feel the romances in almost all Bioware RPGs feel hugely tacked on and unrealistic, gay or not.

Were I gay, I just might do it with Jim.

But since I'm not, I remain to be uneased by the Gay Shepard cutscenes.

Feels awkward when you're into roleplaying RPG's.

I think the biggest point here is this.

As Jim said, "If you don't want a Gay Shep, you wont have any of the scene's, romance plot, dialog to deal with"

There is a general "it doesn't do everything I want it to do so i'm going to complain" mentality. A prime example, the HUGE butthurt over MP being included in ME3. THEN, once people got a chance to play the MP, the HUGE butthurt over not having enough things to do, and the rumors of map/enemy content.

There needs to be a serious pause taken by the general public, maybe take a few min to give their collective head a shake and realize that, at the end of the day, its not the end of the world, so give it a rest.....

dtocs:

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

That said excuses debunked in this video are pathetic indeed.
And pedophilia and homosexuality are indeed vastly different things. That said, both are cases of mental disorder but vastly different ones.

Wait, really... Ok ... Lets think about this one...
1)It's normal to want things that make you happy
2) Your sexual organs cant tell the difference between other sexual organs(only your brain can)
3)They respond to physical stimulation
4)Arousal is all in the mind,your mind decides what you like.
5) Using your logic, should we bring it forth that people who only find models attractive are mentally unwell, as well as people who dont want to have sex with fat,disfigured or handicapped people of the opposite gender.
6)or should we say bisexuality, homosexuality and heterosexuality are all normal verations of sexual desire just as we say someone who doesnt find every women attractive isnt mentally unwell.?

I was going to quote him too, but I really can't think of anything better than this. One wonders if homosexuals were the majority, would he conversely consider heterosexuality to be a 'mental disorder' or just his sexual preference?

OT: Jim, no one has ever been more right or more funny. I will always be thanking God for you.

Man I really don't want to get drawn in to a shit-storm like last week, but I can't look away. It's going to be so glorious. With shit.
A glorious shit-storm.

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

Define what it is that makes homosexuality a mental illness. Define why, if homosexuality is a mental illness, heterosexuality can't be seen as a mental illness as well.

Yeah, by and large I agree. (And last week's entry required clarification for some people? Really? REALLY?!)

Would like to mention a couple of things, though.

It appears that human bisexuality, at least among men, isn't all that common. The studies and surveys cited by Wikipedia rate it as roughly between 2 and 6 percent.

I don't actually know the specifics of how Bioware intends to handle gay or bisexual relationships in ME3, nor, of course, do I have any idea how they will handle the issue in the future. But it has to be said that having every significant human male character you interact with be bisexual to give options is just lazy writing. (Or every female, for that matter, though it stretches credibility slightly less.) I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Xyrg'kkk'l are all culturally bisexual, or that elves have much higher rates of bisexuality, or whatever. I'm even willing to believe that one or two human characters (including the player) are bisexual. But until bisexuality becomes a requirement for entry into the Alliance military, storytelling and character should have a priority over being able to re-use dialogue and textures for sex scenes.

For that matter, if we really want to be inclusive, "we need homosexual options for the PC" shouldn't just mean a couple of people who swing both ways; it's perfectly reasonable, and as far as I know untouched in Bioware's oeuvre, that some NPCs just be homosexual. It would actually be more interesting to my mind to have your strangely magnetic PC be shot down once in a while because your engineering officer just doesn't swing that way.

Other than that, as long as my companions pay attention when I say "no, not interested, thanks", I'm happy to applaud Bioware taking their excellent stories in whatever direction their writers see fit to take them.

Only I'm not going to be playing them because Origin is the devil. Oh well...

I vaguely remember a warning but not for gay porn.

Fun vid, thanks Jim. Still think a gay shepard is (for the most part) retconning, and still think retconning should be avoided as much as possible; but yeah, after last week's thread i say let Shepard be queer and proud of it, that pedophile = gay stuff conviced me that it was actually a neccesary option in ME 3.

NinjaDeathSlap:

dtocs:

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

That said excuses debunked in this video are pathetic indeed.
And pedophilia and homosexuality are indeed vastly different things. That said, both are cases of mental disorder but vastly different ones.

Wait, really... Ok ... Lets think about this one...
1)It's normal to want things that make you happy
2) Your sexual organs cant tell the difference between other sexual organs(only your brain can)
3)They respond to physical stimulation
4)Arousal is all in the mind,your mind decides what you like.
5) Using your logic, should we bring it forth that people who only find models attractive are mentally unwell, as well as people who dont want to have sex with fat,disfigured or handicapped people of the opposite gender.
6)or should we say bisexuality, homosexuality and heterosexuality are all normal verations of sexual desire just as we say someone who doesnt find every women attractive isnt mentally unwell.?

I was going to quote him too, but I really can't think of anything better than this. One wonders if homosexuals were the majority, would he conversely consider heterosexuality to be a 'mental disorder' or just his sexual preference?

OT: Jim, no one has ever been more right or more funny. I will always be thanking God for you.

I would think that heterosexual activity would need to be the norm for evolutionary reasons, a majority homosexual society would be a crippled one. I think what would be a better question would be, in a bisexual society where everyone just picked who they found attractive would we view both homosexuality and heterosexuality as mental illnesses/ fetish behavior ?

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

That said excuses debunked in this video are pathetic indeed.
And pedophilia and homosexuality are indeed vastly different things. That said, both are cases of mental disorder but vastly different ones.

But what's most important here is that developers, Bioware, don't owe anything to anyone. If they want to include whatever new content it is entirely up to them. Your only choice is to either buy their game or don't buy it. It's as simple as that. Attacking writers for example is childish and outrageous. You may disagree with them or consider their creation abysmal.. But the only thing you're entitled to is ability to skip their game and don't buy it.

Oh dear. Somebody get this man a decent education!

Jim all I can say is that you've got balls of steel, you sir are a excellent human being

Hookah:

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

That said excuses debunked in this video are pathetic indeed.
And pedophilia and homosexuality are indeed vastly different things. That said, both are cases of mental disorder but vastly different ones.

But what's most important here is that developers, Bioware, don't owe anything to anyone. If they want to include whatever new content it is entirely up to them. Your only choice is to either buy their game or don't buy it. It's as simple as that. Attacking writers for example is childish and outrageous. You may disagree with them or consider their creation abysmal.. But the only thing you're entitled to is ability to skip their game and don't buy it.

Man, can I borrow your time machine?

Dude, I am so stealing that as my go-to response to homophobic people. +1 internets for you.

As for the video, Jim's rant against comparing homosexuality to pedophilia at the end made me so happy. Thank God for Jim just saying it like it is. No sympathy for homophobes at all.

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

That said excuses debunked in this video are pathetic indeed.
And pedophilia and homosexuality are indeed vastly different things. That said, both are cases of mental disorder but vastly different ones.

Ugh. That's a frightening mentality. Clearly you've had some opinions impressed upon you by parents/church/community, whatever it may be, that are not only wrong, but offensive. Sexual orientation is not a "mental disorder". If you want to go that route, we could just as easily argue that any sexual attraction and activity beyond simple procreation, is a "mental disorder". By that metric, any kinks are also mental disorders. So is the desire to give or receive oral sex (unnatural! Penises don't go there!), and really you could say that any sexual position that isn't "natural" is the result of mental disorder.

It's really time for society to grow up, meaning people like you, and realize that sexual orientation isn't a choice and it's not a mental illness. What people choose to do with their bodies and their sex life that isn't harmful to themselves or others isn't related to mental illness, but to the sex drive that every person has. Just like any other facet of our mental makeup, there are varying degrees of sexuality. Some people like a lot, some like little to none. Some people are attracted to men, some to women, some to both. Just because a man is attracted to men in the same way that women are, it doesn't mean he is ill. What makes a man ill and a women not ill for being sexually attracted to men? It's simple brain chemistry- hormones, chemical transmitters and receptors, much of it set down in the womb before a person is even born.

Again, it is offensive to me, a straight man, and every LGTB person and their allies for you to categorize them as having a mental disorder. Very quickly society will have no place for your outdated ideas, intolerances and prejudices, so it would behoove you and others like you to adjust sooner, rather than later.

Callate:
I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Xyrg'kkk'l are all culturally bisexual, or that elves have much higher rates of bisexuality, or whatever.

You know, I'd never thought about this before, but that might actually make sense. The elves part, that is. I haven't the vaguest clue what a Xyrg'kkk'l is, but I assume you meant that as a general term for whatever name people come up with for alien species.

I mean, male elves are generally depicted as more feminine and beautiful than their human counterparts, so a race where gender is less distinct might genuinely give less of a shit about gender. Furthermore, elves are generally depicted in fantasy as long-lived or ageless, so biological urges to procreate would be a lot less necessary.

I may have just put more thought into elf-sex than I ever should, but there you go. Your post made my brain do things.

OT: Jim makes me smile. The people he responded to make me frown. Jim wins. Logic.

I think my favorite part was the part where I watched this on my Kindle so it was a tad glitchy and I heard key words repeat rather perfectly mix with annoying scretches that I could mistake as being purposefully placed.

I will never get this experience again, I'm sure, but it was perfect.

Well done Jim, telling off those ignorant closet dwelling idiots.

Reaction to this one should bring hilarity.

The one thing this thread has produced that makes me lol, lord gremlins inbox gets allot more mail, still waiting to see him respond.

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

The lady protests to much me thinks. = O

What? How does... why do people even...

...You know what. If you are reading this, and you think being gay or bisexual is wrong, never ever speak to me or come near me. You are a terrible person for suggesting that people should not be able to make their own choices.

I will be playing a gay Shepard. You're just going to have to live with that.

SwimmingRock:

Callate:
I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Xyrg'kkk'l are all culturally bisexual, or that elves have much higher rates of bisexuality, or whatever.

You know, I'd never thought about this before, but that might actually make sense. The elves part, that is. I haven't the vaguest clue what a Xyrg'kkk'l is, but I assume you meant that as a general term for whatever name people come up with for alien species.

I mean, male elves are generally depicted as more feminine and beautiful than their human counterparts, so a race where gender is less distinct might genuinely give less of a shit about gender. Furthermore, elves are generally depicted in fantasy as long-lived or ageless, so biological urges to procreate would be a lot less necessary.

I may have just put more thought into elf-sex than I ever should, but there you go.

In my D&D circle, the running joke is that all elves are gay and only reproduce when they accidentally fall into female elves.

dtocs:
The one thing this thread has produced that makes me lol, lord gremlins inbox gets allot more mail, still waiting to see him respond.

I think that was a post intended to troll and that it was very successful... I hope it was...

I'm glad to see the biting quality I've come to expect return in this episode. The last episode offered great satire, but the point was strained and made so obvious that it grew stale.

Tanakh:
Fun vid, thanks Jim. Still think a gay shepard is (for the most part) retconning, and still think retconning should be avoided as much as possible; but yeah, after last week's thread i say let Shepard be queer and proud of it, that pedophile = gay stuff conviced me that it was actually a neccesary option in ME 3.

It's retconning in a way that brings him back to the way he was intended to be though. ME1 and 2 both have lesbian/gay romance scenes in them, they were just cut, the rumor being because the facial model for maleshep didn't want his face connected to homosexuality.

Dear Lord. I agree with you Jim, but your counter-arguments are just as weak as the arguments you are trying to refute. No pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality (although there are gay pedophiles), but both are sexual activities that some find deviant and therefore immoral. The morality of homosexuality is a topic that has been debated for decades in the highest (and lowest) echelons of public discourse, and your bold-faced declarations about the matter come off as naive.

Also, you used the "so?" argument twice. Since you are so fond of it, let me ask YOU - so? What do you care what some homophobes write on the internet? It doesn't affect YOUR experience.

OT: Personally I think that ALL romance options are useless, shoehorned gimmicks. All the romances in Bioware games feel tacked on just because it's something that the designers think the players want. Of course I just ignore the romances, but I feel like the creative man-hours spent on them could be better utilized somewhere else.

Hmmm... I didn't know this was a problem in games. I thought the last vid was funny and left it at that.

Now on my first play through of these games, I tend to go straight and with the woman I find most attractive (not just looks, but personality). Then on a later play through after I already know each character, I get it on with every character I can. You have a relationship bar/meter/gauge? You will make you love me. Second play through is a whore. That's what happened in Dragon Age... I thought that was part of the fun...

Indignator:
Dear Lord. I agree with you Jim, but your counter-arguments are just as weak as the arguments you are trying to refute. No pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality (although there are gay pedophiles), but both are sexual activities that some find deviant and therefore immoral. The morality of homosexuality is a topic that has been debated for decades in the highest (and lowest) echelons of public discourse, and your bold-faced declarations about the matter come off as naive.

What.

You think two consenting men getting their freak on, is of the same level of social discourse as a man forcing himself on an innocent child?

Ouch.

My brain.

Okay, who said last week's Jimquisition was "too subtle"?

Also, I find it hilarious that Jim told everyone to grow up while holding a big, purple dildo.

Lastly, gamers arguing about entitlement are the biggest hypocrites on the face of the Earth.

Jim, you are forever my hero after this video. Fancy sharing that bat?

It is the year 2012, people. You're not taking some big moral stand by getting bent out of shape over a gay romance option in a video game, you're being a homophobic bigot. It's been said before, I know, but homosexual options have been trying to be put in the game since the first one but were cut, not due to them being homosexual in nature but due to time. Also, if you don't want Shepard to be gay, YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE HIM GAY. You can play him as straight as an arrow, but if you want him to be homosexual now you have the CHOICE to do so. Freedom to choose was the intent from moment one. As for "Liara is a monogendered alien so she doesn't count as a lesbian option," allow me to introduce to you the concept of 'if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.' Liara looks female, sounds female and acts female (except for the threats of fileting people with her mind), so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say she's female.

Finally, I can't belive I'm having to say this, if you were to say, nay to even THINK that pedophilia should be an option if homosexuality is an option, GET THE HELL OFF MY PLANET. I do not want to be in or on the same state, country or continent as you, I do not want to breathe the same air as you, I DO NOT WANT TO BE ON THE SAME PLANET AS YOU DISTURBED FREAKS. Clean out your desk, give me your letter of resignation, get into this space shuttle and GTFO.

Tanakh:
Fun vid, thanks Jim. Still think a gay shepard is (for the most part) retconning, and still think retconning should be avoided as much as possible; but yeah, after last week's thread i say let Shepard be queer and proud of it, that pedophile = gay stuff conviced me that it was actually a neccesary option in ME 3.

How can gay Shepard be retconning when you create your own Shepard? If I went and played Mass Effect 1 right now I could make a gay Shepard if I wanted.

SwimmingRock:

I mean, male elves are generally depicted as more feminine and beautiful than their human counterparts, so a race where gender is less distinct might genuinely give less of a shit about gender.

Wait, there are male elves?!? I thought Zevran was just a very handsome woman!

...But seriously, is the entirety of this topic really going to be people commenting on how one guy is uneducated for thinking homosexuality is a mental illness? I think we can just roll our eyes, give him a pat on the head, and send him on his way... .And steal his time machine. But that's a side point.

Jim, great points as usual, and I'd like to say on the topic of last weeks... I didn't watch it. I went in, saw the warning's, paused after less than a minute, read the first few comments, and decided "Nothing to do here." As Jim's points said repeatedly: it's that easy to avoid if the stuff bothers you... And I'll happily admit that I'm sometimes not comfortable in situations involving homosexuals, but I'm also not comfortable in situations involving large dogs, coffee, or mexican food. All personal tastes.

...And I did wind up having my male character bed Zevran, so make of that what you will.

That said, maybe there's a problem with giving achievements and such for the homosexual options. Because unlocking achievements is part of gameplay for a lot of people, and I seem to recall getting one for fucking Zevran.

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