Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

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Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Age of consent exists in only one animal species too.

EDITED for reasons that become clear later in the forum, lol.

Anyone get the feeling Jim trolls (the actual definition of the word, mind--not the internet slang) hot topics for page views?

goliath6711:

Kitsuna10060:
and why are people getting butthurt over OPTIONAL CONTENT!!!!! -.- seriously, grow the fuck up, no ones forcing anyone to make your character gay, so shut up about it, cause ya know IT'S JUST A GAME

You realize that is the only saving grace here. I see this exactly as I saw Garrus and Tali suddenly becoming options in Mass Effect 2. Something completely stupid and pointless that I can completely ignore and put out of my mind. But what if I couldn't? What if this was put into a game like Uncharted or Gears of War or Resident Evil?

If you're going to include something like this, you'd better make sure you do it to add some weight and not throw it in "just because". It's just like throwing in an interracial relationship just to say you wanted one and not putting any thought as to why these people would want to be together.

how much weight can any relation ship add to a story like this? far as I'm concerned any 'optional lovers' side stuff is 'tacked on' since my attempt to hook up with Morgan (which failed cause she wasn't into women) and subsequent hooking up with Alastar in DA:O had zero effect on anything cept a hand full of lines.

so unless they make it start mattering to the over all plot, (which they won't in all likely hood) people need to shut the fuck up about options they don't even have to use, after all, don't hear me railing against the sub machine gun for being useless compared to the assault rifle, cause -.- its kinda the same fucking thing in terms of meaningless shit to bitch about.

Daaaamn... that Miranda and Femshep vid is hot 0_o.

MatParker116:
It was in Mass Effect 1 & 2 at one point:

Really have no idea why it was cut.

Damn, that Miranda and femshep vid is hot 0_o. Maybe because it's the closest I've ever seen to Yvonne Strahovski (which Miranda is admittedly modeled after) being in a soft-core lesbian sex scene :P

To go back on topic, I honestly don't understand why people get offended at this. I have no interested in seeing Kaidan and Male Shep make out, so I just didn't click on the link for example. It's easy enough to ignore, don't affect me in anyway and that's pretty much the bottom line.

Therumancer:

Saying that homosexuals are somehow elevated above other sexual deviants is inherantly wrong, they are EXACTLY the same thing.

Alright. Somebody needs to ban this guy.

Equating homosexuality with bestiality, pedophilia is HATE SPEECH.

This is no different than saying than claiming Jewish people are all untrustworthy, money grubbing, shylocks, or that those with African Ancestry are of inherently lower IQ, or all muslims are terrorists, and all atheists have no morals.

Get rid of this bigot.

You know, I really didn't have any problems with Bioware making (Male)Shepard homosexual/bisexual. I'm just wondering why they decided to do it on the last game of the series is all. Why not from the start? Dragon Age Origins had two bi-sexual love interests and two hetero-sexual ones, and hell even though I'm straight(and more or less play as myself in games like this) I had a lot of fun in pursuing Zevran as a Male Grey Warden and Leliana as a Female Grey Warden if only to get to know the characters better. Why not just come out with it right off the bat if they were going to anyway is all I'm saying.

I am going to say off the hop that I completely support the Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual and all the other ones and there rights to be the person they want to be. Homophobia infuriates me. Please don't flame me.

HOWEVER (And this is not a gay bashing however, quite the opposite)

I think bioware is going about the problem of a lack of gay relationship options in the wrong way. When I play Mass Effect as opposed to MoH and the likes I want a deep and engaging story. So in my opinion having the support characters radically change their personality based on choices you make kinda takes away there identities. Sexual Orientation is a fundamental part of a person, it effects choices and personalities.

You know how writing female characters can be challenging? You can't just change the gender of a character and expect them to be believable. There still gunna act like guys. Jacob is straight. Its obvious he is straight because he was written straight.

So if you want to include gay characters and romance options in your game (which I fully support), WRITE GAY CHARACTERS! Give the gay community a little more credit then that.

So I kind of agree with Jim I kind of don't. It is not as simple an issue as Jim makes it out to be. I do not think there should be gay options in Mass Effect because there are no gay characters in Mass Effect, which is its own issue by itself.

Eruanno:
What? How does... why do people even...

...You know what. If you are reading this, and you think being gay or bisexual is wrong, never ever speak to me or come near me. You are a terrible person for suggesting that people should not be able to make their own choices.

I will be playing a gay Shepard. You're just going to have to live with that.

it is really funny watching as most of the american gamers heavily protects gay people and exaggerate the situation up to the extremes.

i don't know what is the problem of those users on mass effect related forums, but watching this hype is really funny and at the same time very awkward.

ok, i am not a person who like prejudices, but all that hype and the holy guardian approaching toward gay people makes the situation questionable.

do every gamer turned to gay people and therefore try to defend themselves, or the gamers suddenly become heavily sensetive against freedoms?
if the latter, i wish to see those gamers in other incidents as well, not just for protecting gay rights.

i didn't read rest of the topic, but i know people probably defended gay rights and heavily heavily denigrated "the people who has bias toward gays".
because this is the new trend in gaming community, and bioware are milking those people.

i wish gamers were united for making good games quality rpgs like planescape torment, mask of the betrayer or alpha protocol,
not just for protecting gay rights in mass effect franchises.
because it became silly...

Callate:
Yeah, by and large I agree. (And last week's entry required clarification for some people? Really? REALLY?!)

Would like to mention a couple of things, though.

It appears that human bisexuality, at least among men, isn't all that common. The studies and surveys cited by Wikipedia rate it as roughly between 2 and 6 percent.

I don't actually know the specifics of how Bioware intends to handle gay or bisexual relationships in ME3, nor, of course, do I have any idea how they will handle the issue in the future. But it has to be said that having every significant human male character you interact with be bisexual to give options is just lazy writing. (Or every female, for that matter, though it stretches credibility slightly less.) I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Xyrg'kkk'l are all culturally bisexual, or that elves have much higher rates of bisexuality, or whatever. I'm even willing to believe that one or two human characters (including the player) are bisexual. But until bisexuality becomes a requirement for entry into the Alliance military, storytelling and character should have a priority over being able to re-use dialogue and textures for sex scenes.

For that matter, if we really want to be inclusive, "we need homosexual options for the PC" shouldn't just mean a couple of people who swing both ways; it's perfectly reasonable, and as far as I know untouched in Bioware's oeuvre, that some NPCs just be homosexual. It would actually be more interesting to my mind to have your strangely magnetic PC be shot down once in a while because your engineering officer just doesn't swing that way.

Other than that, as long as my companions pay attention when I say "no, not interested, thanks", I'm happy to applaud Bioware taking their excellent stories in whatever direction their writers see fit to take them.

Only I'm not going to be playing them because Origin is the devil. Oh well...

I do actually agree with that point.

Did I mind that Ander hit on my male character when I was playing my first playthrought with my burly Male Hawke warrior?

Not at all. I turned him down, which cost me some point with him (which is logical), but by the end Ander was a steadfast ally and a friend. I don't care that you like cocks instead of pussy, you're the best healer I got, I want you watching my back. More the better if you enjoy the view.

But then on my second playthrought, I'm playing as a sexy female hawke rogue... and he's hitting on me again.

Wait. What? I thought you were gay!

I understand why they did it... there was a lot of complaint from people back in DA1 that the only homosexual option were Lilianna and that crow guy (can't remember his name) and that both of them were actually 'bi-sexual', not truly gay.

I understand that it can be frustrating to not be able to romance a character you like because the writers decided he didn't swing the way you wanted. Especially since it does seem to sideline the gay option much more often than the straight option.

Really, I get it.

And it's not even like I'm mad or bothered at it. If every single romanceable character in ME3 is Bi-sexual like they were in DA2, I'm still going to enjoy the game.

But yeah, that doesn't change the fact that it is lazy writing and pandering. But considering that videogame are about wish fulfillment, pandering isn't exactly a bad thing.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Thumbs exist in only one animal species too.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

okokok..... Monkeys. Ya? Monkeys.

SuperRobot64:

KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life:
I kinda felt like making a gay Shepard in Mass Effect 1. Mostly because I was trying to do the Kaidan and Garrus achievements, partly because Ashley's a racist and Liara was boring.

My only problem with the gay Shepard is that he's suddenly here now, but wasn't an option from the start. Now the character I was going to have be gay is straight with the loony chick, and even if I was gay, I wouldn't break up with her.

Maybe he wasn't there from the start because none of the squadmates were gay.
Don't romance anyone in Mass 1 & 2 and then have a gay romance in 3.

Fappy:
Did Jim just deep-throat a dildo?

Also, who the fuck is that black guy in the video nailing male Shepard?

It's Cortez the shuttle pilot...

An easy thing for them to do would have been to make Kaidan and Ashley "bisexual", as in able to be romanced by both. Everything was ready to go with gay Kaidan, actually, then they flip-flopped and pandered to homophobes.

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

This! This is all that ever needs to be said! Homosexuality is not unnatural, it is not the product of some mental illness, it is not wrong. If we could just get this information to all the incomprehensibly unreasonable people who somehow got the idea that you should opposite it, we could end this debate once and for all. Jesus H. Christ, I mean, have people no sense at all?

easternflame:

mike1921:

easternflame:

OP: I don't really think Bioware are open and mature to be quite honest, let me give you 2 clear examples. First, you can go Lesbian in Mass Effect 1 and 2 but not gay. Also, the demo

So yeah, open and mature, I don't think so Jim.

It is not about biggotry, it about the inconsistency with the story and character. Remember in mass effect one where you had to kill Wrex (or convince him) because he wanted to save the facility for the survival of the species? He would have the utmost respect for the queen! why am I the only one to see this?!

Peoples' ideals don't always line up perfectly with their personalities. He could deep down respect the female Krogan and still want to be generally a dick to her. Just because he wants increased fertility so the species can breed doesn't mean he has entirely respectful interactions with female Krogan. It's not an assumption you can make and I see no reason this connection would be made.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Thumbs exist in only one animal species too.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

okokok..... Monkeys. Ya? Monkeys.

Or Raccoons.

Or Possums.

Or Squirrels.

Social progressive...and stuff. Very amusing video, saddening you had to make it though.

flippedthebitch:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Thumbs exist in only one animal species too.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

okokok..... Monkeys. Ya? Monkeys.

Not to mention certain other placental mammals, marsupials, reptiles, and amphibians.

mike1921:

easternflame:

mike1921:

It is not about biggotry, it about the inconsistency with the story and character. Remember in mass effect one where you had to kill Wrex (or convince him) because he wanted to save the facility for the survival of the species? He would have the utmost respect for the queen! why am I the only one to see this?!

Peoples' ideals don't always line up perfectly with their personalities. He could deep down respect the female Krogan and still want to be generally a dick to her. Just because he wants increased fertility so the species can breed doesn't mean he has entirely respectful interactions with female Krogan. It's not an assumption you can make and I see no reason this connection would be made.

You really think that's what the line reflects? Then explain to me this, if he had no other interaction with females before, and obviously not with other females from the other species' then why would he say that line? It makes no sense! He would A) not refer to her as a woman. And B) Would not know what to say in a situation like that.

So much negativity and so many angsty teens arguing with soundbites they've heard on tv.

How about I post Tali's face and derail things for a while?

:3

I expected this kind of behavior towards fellow humans based on sexuality in my debate class since i am in Texas. But this came out of nowhere. In my debate class homosexual marriage got compared to necrophilia, and pedophilia and i expected it and smacked it down accordingly. But on this forum? shame escapists. SHAME!

I didn't watch last weeks video because I am incredibly squeamish about homosexuality and... didn't want to hear him blab out some homoerotic fan fiction...

However... the option to be gay in the game... why is that a bloody problem? What the fuck?

I'd never pick the option to be gay... ever... its part of the hardrive which will not be touched by my CPU... it will just be there... as an option... for those who want it...

I'm ashamed that it is the case people have to bullshit about their reasoning... just who the hell complained that paedophiles weren't represented and should be represented if homosexuality is????????? Just say you don't like gays... just say it... Just say that you think being gay is wrong and that you are of the same mindset as these two guys:

imageimage

2 guys from the 11th Century... just say that and be honest... stop lying.

I'm squeamish about gay people. If a really really camp guy is standing next to me... I will move away in some form of fear >.> However if people wanna by gay... let them be gay. People want to marry someone of the same sex... let 'em. If people want the option to be gay in a videogame... allow them to be gay (unless you really really need to ship the game out lest you go bankrupt).

Who the hell seriously has the mind of that nerd that Jim was quoting throughout the video? This lecture was pointed towards morons. I'm not poking fun, I stand by that statement by definition. Being homophobic is childish, and any argument that states that Shepard can't be gay...seriously? You can't disprove such a thing. You can't. I almost think there is no point to this episode at all, but apparently there are people who seriously found this video somewhat educational. Good grief.

Tarkand:

Callate:
Yeah, by and large I agree. (And last week's entry required clarification for some people? Really? REALLY?!)

Would like to mention a couple of things, though.

It appears that human bisexuality, at least among men, isn't all that common. The studies and surveys cited by Wikipedia rate it as roughly between 2 and 6 percent.

I don't actually know the specifics of how Bioware intends to handle gay or bisexual relationships in ME3, nor, of course, do I have any idea how they will handle the issue in the future. But it has to be said that having every significant human male character you interact with be bisexual to give options is just lazy writing. (Or every female, for that matter, though it stretches credibility slightly less.) I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Xyrg'kkk'l are all culturally bisexual, or that elves have much higher rates of bisexuality, or whatever. I'm even willing to believe that one or two human characters (including the player) are bisexual. But until bisexuality becomes a requirement for entry into the Alliance military, storytelling and character should have a priority over being able to re-use dialogue and textures for sex scenes.

For that matter, if we really want to be inclusive, "we need homosexual options for the PC" shouldn't just mean a couple of people who swing both ways; it's perfectly reasonable, and as far as I know untouched in Bioware's oeuvre, that some NPCs just be homosexual. It would actually be more interesting to my mind to have your strangely magnetic PC be shot down once in a while because your engineering officer just doesn't swing that way.

Other than that, as long as my companions pay attention when I say "no, not interested, thanks", I'm happy to applaud Bioware taking their excellent stories in whatever direction their writers see fit to take them.

Only I'm not going to be playing them because Origin is the devil. Oh well...

I do actually agree with that point.

Did I mind that Ander hit on my male character when I was playing my first playthrought with my burly Male Hawke warrior?

Not at all. I turned him down, which cost me some point with him (which is logical), but by the end Ander was a steadfast ally and a friend. I don't care that you like cocks instead of pussy, you're the best healer I got, I want you watching my back. More the better if you enjoy the view.

But then on my second playthrought, I'm playing as a sexy female hawke rogue... and he's hitting on me again.

Wait. What? I thought you were gay!

I understand why they did it... there was a lot of complaint from people back in DA1 that the only homosexual option were Lilianna and that crow guy (can't remember his name) and that both of them were actually 'bi-sexual', not truly gay.

I understand that it can be frustrating to not be able to romance a character you like because the writers decided he didn't swing the way you wanted. Especially since it does seem to sideline the gay option much more often than the straight option.

Really, I get it.

And it's not even like I'm mad or bothered at it. If every single romanceable character in ME3 is Bi-sexual like they were in DA2, I'm still going to enjoy the game.

But yeah, that doesn't change the fact that it is lazy writing and pandering. But considering that videogame are about wish fulfillment, pandering isn't exactly a bad thing.

Well, see this is part of my point. The thing is that they intended this for Dragon Age, however as they pointed out to Destructoid, the writers didn't intend it for Mass Effect. Two entirely differant products where the writers decided to go in a differant direction.

Things like Dragon Age show they aren't going to avoid the issue when it fits their image of the characters, game and property. That in no way obligates them to write it into everything they create however.

It's like saying that in "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" they should have put a gay male into the main cast since they had heterosexuals, and a lesbian, simply so as not to exclude any gay male viewers. Inserting token characters based on politically correct demands never ends well.

As far as Anders goes in paticular, you have to remember he started in "Awakenings" (expansion for Origins) and his comments there definatly implied he liked the ladies, though his apperance and earring (the side it's on) implied otherwise. Him turning out to be bi- was a reasonable character revelation.

To be honest if your going to pick, I suppose it could be pointed out that everyone is hetero or bi-, I don't think they have had a flat out exclusive gay character yet. Leliana and Isabella go both ways, Anders and Zevran go both ways. But that's a seperate issue from whether a gay male should be in Mass Effect 3 for purposes of appeasement.

captainfluoxetine:

jboking:

Lord_Gremlin:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.

Define what it is that makes homosexuality a mental illness. Define why, if homosexuality is a mental illness, heterosexuality can't be seen as a mental illness as well.

Heterosexuality makes babies. Homosexuality doesn't.

Frankly it IS, from an evolutionary point of view, wrong. Thats not wrong in a moral sense, but wrong in a continuation of the species sense.

I can fully understand why some consider it a mental illness, arguably an inherited or developed one.

My argument would be, so what? If it makes someone happy and does not inflict harm on them or others then whats the problem?

It actually isn't a mental illness from an evolutionary standpoint. A trait not being passed on or not being conducive to passing on does not mean that those traits constitute a mental illness, it means that they weren't conducive to reproducing. Also, concerning that homosexual couples in the modern day do find ways of reproducing, I'd say it doesn't hinder their reproductive capabilities. Their ability to work within their environment to overcome their natural flaws is a trait that ought to be passed on, from an evolutionary standpoint.

Also, Breeders, as I have heard them called, actually are the cause of one of the biggest issues of our time, overpopulation. An increase in homosexual couples who do not wish to reproduce would be the solution to this problem. This means that homosexuality would be our species saving grace. Our balancing act.

Really though, claiming that homosexuality is a mental illness is a much bigger claim. One that needs to be backed up by hard science.

Therumancer:
I raised questions like those that are into scat, extreme BDSM, or other assorted things, many of which probably have heterosexuals involved in numbers globally that outnumber the entire population of homosexuals of both genders. If you start saying you HAVE to do this, which is what this comes down to, because Bioware made it pretty clear they didn't want to, it opens the door for any group that wants to make similar demands to come forward and do the same exact thing.

...., the thing that has made this an issue is the massive protests to FORCE them to put this kind of thing into the game, simply because they chose to do so before with other games.

You do know that Bioware wrote these choices into ME2? There are scenes on Youtube, cut from ME2, that amply demonstrate that. Now that they've tested the market with Dragon Age 2 and the world hasn't ended they probably feel safer including these themes.

And how in your deluded little mind (Now that "gayness" is "allowed") would they include bestiality, BDSM, scat or pedophilia into a PG/M rated computer game? Are they going to include dialogue options such as:

"Hey Garret, want to come shit on my face while I jerk off"

or

"Yeoman Kelly go cuff yourself to my table and assume the position."?

This issue is MUCH bigger than homosexuality,

No it isn't. It starts with sexuality and ends with sexuality and your obvious problems with anything that deviates from your hetero-normative world view.

and down the road if you decide to make complaints about extraneous characters or politics ruining something... anything, what your saying here could come back to haunt you. Being stuck in a position of trying to explain how forced inclusion in something else is a problem, when your saying it's okay with homosexuality isn't going to be easy to argue your way out of as once you start saying it's okay for one group it's hard to say it about others.

What are you trying to say here? That because we say that homosexuality is okay we have to say everything up to pedophilia is okay?

This is where your world view becomes truly disgusting. If you cannot separate sex acts between two (or more) consenting adults, (No matter how disgusting you might find them) and RAPE then you obviously have issues with mental clarity.

This is silly. Don't really know why people care about this so much. All's I know is that when I play through all three games again, I'm definitely gonna make a bisexual Shepard. Just sounds neat to me.

Well, while I expected the Escapist's resident Blackshirt to exude his usual meandering spiel about how the pernicious influence of left wing (bare in mind he has a pretty damn risible interpretation of what qualifies as left/centre/right) ideology is responsible for anything and everything that's wrong with modern society, (no seriously, I fucking challange you to go through his posts and find one where he doesn't fucking drag political alingment into the discussion) I'm really surprised this is garnering as much attention as it has. It's pretty simple, you don't want a gay Shep then don't play as one, it has literally no impact upon you're playthrough, it is an optional path, I fail to see the issue, christ and people are calling gays entitled.

Therumancer:

Tarkand:

Callate:
Yeah, by and large I agree. (And last week's entry required clarification for some people? Really? REALLY?!)

Would like to mention a couple of things, though.

It appears that human bisexuality, at least among men, isn't all that common. The studies and surveys cited by Wikipedia rate it as roughly between 2 and 6 percent.

I don't actually know the specifics of how Bioware intends to handle gay or bisexual relationships in ME3, nor, of course, do I have any idea how they will handle the issue in the future. But it has to be said that having every significant human male character you interact with be bisexual to give options is just lazy writing. (Or every female, for that matter, though it stretches credibility slightly less.) I'm perfectly willing to believe that the Xyrg'kkk'l are all culturally bisexual, or that elves have much higher rates of bisexuality, or whatever. I'm even willing to believe that one or two human characters (including the player) are bisexual. But until bisexuality becomes a requirement for entry into the Alliance military, storytelling and character should have a priority over being able to re-use dialogue and textures for sex scenes.

For that matter, if we really want to be inclusive, "we need homosexual options for the PC" shouldn't just mean a couple of people who swing both ways; it's perfectly reasonable, and as far as I know untouched in Bioware's oeuvre, that some NPCs just be homosexual. It would actually be more interesting to my mind to have your strangely magnetic PC be shot down once in a while because your engineering officer just doesn't swing that way.

Other than that, as long as my companions pay attention when I say "no, not interested, thanks", I'm happy to applaud Bioware taking their excellent stories in whatever direction their writers see fit to take them.

Only I'm not going to be playing them because Origin is the devil. Oh well...

I do actually agree with that point.

Did I mind that Ander hit on my male character when I was playing my first playthrought with my burly Male Hawke warrior?

Not at all. I turned him down, which cost me some point with him (which is logical), but by the end Ander was a steadfast ally and a friend. I don't care that you like cocks instead of pussy, you're the best healer I got, I want you watching my back. More the better if you enjoy the view.

But then on my second playthrought, I'm playing as a sexy female hawke rogue... and he's hitting on me again.

Wait. What? I thought you were gay!

I understand why they did it... there was a lot of complaint from people back in DA1 that the only homosexual option were Lilianna and that crow guy (can't remember his name) and that both of them were actually 'bi-sexual', not truly gay.

I understand that it can be frustrating to not be able to romance a character you like because the writers decided he didn't swing the way you wanted. Especially since it does seem to sideline the gay option much more often than the straight option.

Really, I get it.

And it's not even like I'm mad or bothered at it. If every single romanceable character in ME3 is Bi-sexual like they were in DA2, I'm still going to enjoy the game.

But yeah, that doesn't change the fact that it is lazy writing and pandering. But considering that videogame are about wish fulfillment, pandering isn't exactly a bad thing.

Well, see this is part of my point. The thing is that they intended this for Dragon Age, however as they pointed out to Destructoid, the writers didn't intend it for Mass Effect. Two entirely differant products where the writers decided to go in a differant direction.

Things like Dragon Age show they aren't going to avoid the issue when it fits their image of the characters, game and property. That in no way obligates them to write it into everything they create however.

It's like saying that in "Buffy The Vampire Slayer" they should have put a gay male into the main cast since they had heterosexuals, and a lesbian, simply so as not to exclude any gay male viewers. Inserting token characters based on politically correct demands never ends well.

As far as Anders goes in paticular, you have to remember he started in "Awakenings" (expansion for Origins) and his comments there definatly implied he liked the ladies, though his apperance and earring (the side it's on) implied otherwise. Him turning out to be bi- was a reasonable character revelation.

To be honest if your going to pick, I suppose it could be pointed out that everyone is hetero or bi-, I don't think they have had a flat out exclusive gay character yet. Leliana and Isabella go both ways, Anders and Zevran go both ways. But that's a seperate issue from whether a gay male should be in Mass Effect 3 for purposes of appeasement.

I didn't know about Ander starting in Awakening, never bought that DLC.

I ended up not romancing him with my female character and went with Fenris instead (and learned in another playthrough that he too swings both way... he apparently didn't get the occasion to hit on my original char because since my male hawke was a 2 handed fighter, I never even bothered to use Fenris and hardly had any dialogue with him at all) because to me, Ander was gay and it didn't make any sense for him to end up in a relationship with a female.

As you can imagine, further playthrough of DA2 ended up muddling the water and it made the whole cast seems much less 'real' than I had first believe after my original playthrough. And that was a shame.

Lono Shrugged:
Great as usual but he totally missed out on the entitlement argument. Considering how many tits and asses get jammed in our face in most games, homosexual dudes must have it pretty rough.
Then again there is Gears of war....

My favorite thing about Jim I gotta say is how consistant and well thought out his opinions are. (even if i sometimes disagree I never fault where he is coming from) He never seems to contradict himself proving a point and thats the reason I would rather have more respect for him than some of the other people who do opinion pieces on this site.

Gears of War? Ick. Those guys are about as attractive as a piece of burnt toast taped onto a tank.
Coming from an actual gay guy.
And yeah it's funny that in the RARE SITUATION where there's male fanservice, you notice it.

flippedthebitch:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Thumbs exist in only one animal species too.

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

okokok..... Monkeys. Ya? Monkeys.

I was clearly referring to the useful kind--the kind only found in a handful of species.

In your rush to starwman you missed the point just about as hard as one possibly could. It should have been fairly obvious I suggesting any argument centered around "but other animals don't" is inane.

If we are going to go ahead and use the "unnatural" defense, I suppose the following should be removed:

courts and law
broad sexual equality
age of consent
currency
the education system (schools)
clothing
democracy;
government
etc.
etc.

It's just a flat out pointless argument. I'm reminded of a pretty funny bit a stand up comedian did:

Anti-homosexuality activist - "Animals don't have gays." [Ignore the fact that we are animals and that other animals are gay, just for the sake of making fun of this person, lol.]
Comedian - "You wanna judge what is and isn't normal based off what animals do? Maybe next time I see your wife I'll drop down on all fours and fuck her leg."

It's a bad argument. Don't do it, people.

gyroscopeboy:

galaith100:
Why would you not want Shepard to fuck guys, it only make him more pimp.

Ill just leave this here

"(as if) they're not tough, they FUCK MEN...thats HARDLY gay" - Steve Hughes

Pimp as fuck bro ;)

GRRRAAAAGH NINJA'D!

And Jim, for the first time on any forum, anywhere, you've made it possible for me to use this picture with absolutely no irony, or sarcasm.

image

Thank Whatever-Higher-Power-You-Believe-In, for Jim.

Grey Day for Elcia:

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Thumbs exist in only one animal species too.

Are you sure you want to make that assumption? Are you sure you don't want to maybe check that fact before you use it? Because I think you're hurting the giant panda's feelings with that comment. Not to mention most primates, possums and opossums, koalas, polydactyl cats, this one species of frog in South America. You get my drift.

wintercoat:

Grey Day for Elcia:

Alrocsmash:
Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

People need to grow up.

That's a very poor defense. Thumbs exist in only one animal species too.

Are you sure you want to make that assumption? Are you sure you don't want to maybe check that fact before you use it? Because I think you're hurting the giant panda's feelings with that comment. Not to mention most primates, possums and opossums, koalas, polydactyl cats, this one species of frog in South America. You get my drift.

Go ahead and check 309 before jumping on that sinking ship.

I like how there are folk out there who can accept that there exists a universe where there are single gendered, blue people who do freaky things with their eyes during sex, walking cockroaches, and giant ancient squids bent on universal janitorial services every couple millions of years....but freak the fuck out at the sight of a gay person.

...Gay people exist too =\

That was the stuff of legends Mr. Sterling.

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