The Big Picture: Not Okay

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Volf:

flying_whimsy:
This is probably the most pissed off I've ever heard movie bob sound; I don't blame him, either, as I've said the exact same thing on more than one occasion over the last few years. I remember calling some friends out on throwing the word rape around more casually than I was comfortable with and they looked at me like I grew a second head.

Seriously, nerd culture based sexism is something I would seriously like to see go away. Forever.

using the word rape to mean lose doesn't equate to sexism

Even it that is true its rude and goes beyond what could be called acceptable competitive behaviour.

Volf:

flying_whimsy:
This is probably the most pissed off I've ever heard movie bob sound; I don't blame him, either, as I've said the exact same thing on more than one occasion over the last few years. I remember calling some friends out on throwing the word rape around more casually than I was comfortable with and they looked at me like I grew a second head.

Seriously, nerd culture based sexism is something I would seriously like to see go away. Forever.

using the word rape to mean lose doesn't equate to sexism

No, but it does devalue the concept of rape as one of the most horrifying things a person can do to another human being, and certainly doesn't help deal with widespread rape culture.

Rape Culture 101. Educate yourself.

Abandon4093:
Like any of that actually needed to be addressed.

1 asshole =/= even a small portion of people who play games. His opinion of gaming-culture, which is a nonsense phrase to begin with, means exactly the same. The only reason that douche got any attention is because he was on some shite TV show.

People like you, responding to this type of behaviour as if it's actually some sort of real issue and not a few lone nuts being retardly backwards are what give the stereotype of 'sexist gamers' credence. Because it gives the impression it's a serious enough issue for it to be addressed.

News flash......... it's not.

And BTW, 'rape' is not a sexist phrase. What is sexist is your assumption that that phrase is in someway, only demeaning to women. You didn't overtly state that, but I don't really see any reason for you to have brought it up if that wasn't your point.

"I'm raping you!" When used in the context of a competition is in no way sexually explicit. It simply means one side/person is dominating the other side/person. If you read any more into it than that, you've got hangups.

It is trivializing one of the most traumatic experiences a person can foist on another human being to a mere "LOLOL I'M WINNING." If you don't see any problem in that, then you're ignorant as hell.

NinjaDeathSlap:
This was the best episode in a while. Pretty much everything that needs saying about nerd culture is here. Just replace 'women' with any other subject matter and its pretty much 100% interchangeable.

Although, in defense of the 'Why are we even talking about this?' argument, I don't think that necessarily means people don't want to admit that these problems exist, more just 'Why is it my responsibility to tell these assholes to grow up? Why can't I just be free to not be associated with them?'

With due respect, if you don't take responsibility, and I don't take responsibility, then no one will, and they will never change.

John Funk:

Abandon4093:
Like any of that actually needed to be addressed.

1 asshole =/= even a small portion of people who play games. His opinion of gaming-culture, which is a nonsense phrase to begin with, means exactly the same. The only reason that douche got any attention is because he was on some shite TV show.

People like you, responding to this type of behaviour as if it's actually some sort of real issue and not a few lone nuts being retardly backwards are what give the stereotype of 'sexist gamers' credence. Because it gives the impression it's a serious enough issue for it to be addressed.

News flash......... it's not.

And BTW, 'rape' is not a sexist phrase. What is sexist is your assumption that that phrase is in someway, only demeaning to women. You didn't overtly state that, but I don't really see any reason for you to have brought it up if that wasn't your point.

"I'm raping you!" When used in the context of a competition is in no way sexually explicit. It simply means one side/person is dominating the other side/person. If you read any more into it than that, you've got hangups.

It is trivializing one of the most traumatic experiences a person can foist on another human being to a mere "LOLOL I'M WINNING." If you don't see any problem in that, then you're ignorant as hell.

I assume you mean the 'raping' part.

In that case when someone says "we're murdering you" or "I crippled your ass" (which are phrases I've heard just as much as 'raping' when playing fighting games, sports games and shooters against mates) we should reprimand them for being ignorant as hell because they trivialised murder and being crippled. Both things I'd argue are worse than rape.

It's not a trivialisation, it's got nothing to do with the actual act of rape. It just draws on the connotation of dominance that word evokes.

I really wish we didn't have to bubble wrap our words incase they bounce off the wrong person.

8-Bit_Jack:

Okysho:
I agree, rock on bob! Seriously! I can't believe there are people trying to justify this... I haven't seen the clip in quesiton myself, but what the hell is this guy trying to justify?

Love the ending statement there too bob! This is why I watch your show.

Don't congratulate him for calling out a guy if you don't know what he did. It makes you sound like a giant idiot.

I have typed and retyped a post for this thread several times, but i seem to be incapable of doing so without resorting to angry gibbering, so I'll instead say that i mostly agree with bob for once, and leave it at that

Don't assume I don't know what happened because I made a forum post congratulating a guy for a bringing attention to a much needed issue within the gaming culture. It makes you sound like a giant idiot.

I haven't seen the clip, that doesn't mean I don't know what happened. The escapist isn't the only one who reports these things.

Arseholes are arseholes. Sexism and racsism is everywhere. Whether they play games, politics, in the police army or whom ever. The fact the person is a geek shouldnt matter.

John Funk:

Volf:

flying_whimsy:
This is probably the most pissed off I've ever heard movie bob sound; I don't blame him, either, as I've said the exact same thing on more than one occasion over the last few years. I remember calling some friends out on throwing the word rape around more casually than I was comfortable with and they looked at me like I grew a second head.

Seriously, nerd culture based sexism is something I would seriously like to see go away. Forever.

using the word rape to mean lose doesn't equate to sexism

No, but it does devalue the concept of rape as one of the most horrifying things a person can do to another human being, and certainly doesn't help deal with widespread rape culture.

Rape Culture 101. Educate yourself.

excerpt from article:

A rape culture is a complex of beliefs that encourages male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. It is a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent. In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm.

In a rape culture both men and women assume that sexual violence is a fact of life, inevitable as death or taxes. This violence, however, is neither biologically nor divinely ordained. Much of what we accept as inevitable is in fact the expression of values and attitudes that can change.

-1,000 points for the implication that sexual violence/aggression is something that only women suffer from. Or that society subconsciously encourages sexually aggressive males but not females.

Real life isn't so cut and dry. And there are two sides to every coin.

Hear! Hear! Well spoken Bruce!

er... I mean Bob.

And thank you to Windu23 for linking an interesting article on the topic.

Windu23:
I feel the need to point to this article again to better illustrate that point, because I'm just not as well versed in the finer details as others.

Edit: having read the article, I can't help thinking that the author is being disingenuous. He makes several statements comparing the respective developers and communities. Without actual statements from the Publishers (I should have liked to see any numbers showing that Blizzard's involvement in SC tournaments was lucrative) or serious assessments of their relationship with the communities, they sound like willful assertions. He uses the word 'insular' when I rather suspect that 'bunkered' would be a better descriptor. 'Insular' has neutral connotations, whereas someone built the bunker.

Jimquisition also engages in this form of journalism. Am I not supposed to question the author? Did C'thulu establish his eternal dominance when I was not paying attention?
(All hail the Dark Lord!)

Susan Arendt:
I think some folks in this thread aren't fully aware of what Aris did. This went beyond trash talking, it went beyond friendly competition. He held a camera on a girl and sexually harassed her, and when she told him to stop, he said she had to put up with it because he was her coach and it was in the rules that she had to do anything he told her to.

Trash talking your buddies is great, it's part of the fun, and nobody is suggesting it should go away. But making someone feel worthless and afraid, because you find it fun? There's no defending that.

I was about to type in my response, but you put it way better than I could. Thank you.

OT, but gah, I accidentally hit the report button on you when I was checking out your badges. I'm so sorry! D:

I been around the internet a more than decent amount of childhood destroying time.
I haven't really seen much of ANY of these things, I mean occasionally yeah, you get some crack-pot going nuts, but no more than... well any other community that I see.

I agree it's not OK, but trying to pick out the idiots of the world is damn difficult, and they're idiots - how do you expect to fix them? Hate them to death? Sadly - YES - they do have the free-speech to say such things, and just you watch them abuse that right for all they're worth. Sexual harassment like this I can understand does indeed cause harm.
But if it's just casual discussion they mention it - where discussion is calm, there's very little you can do. If it's their view it's their view - it probably got so extreme for some really stupid reason, but it's still there. If we can fix a few of the bad-eggs and hit them with a newspaper until they're better then fine, but it's not like we can really fix up every guy can we?

Still - I approve of this. Hate is always a bad thing.

This is common in activities/establishments/cultures that views themselves as fraternal or male dominated. The same can be seen at Gyms (Boxing and Fighting ones more often), Shooting Ranges and other places where men feel they can be "liberated". The common thought process behind the jackasses that perpetrate the behavior is simple other men agree with them because they are also men. they do it to posture/pose and generally get attention.

Crying about it in most situations only makes them feel more empowered for their own stupidity. Telling them they're not cool only gives them more of the attention their bolstering so obviously proves they crave.

I agree it is not synonymous with the Fighting Game crowd nor any particular niche genre save possibly the obvious porn sims. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the gamers that use such colorful language have the same charm and beauty as the subject you're lambasting though. So in reality there is little reason to single them out as their behavior IRL probably does that enough for them whenever they choose to slither out of their caves.

anyway TLDR?

This is probably many of the folks on this board only exposure to a supposed predominately male hobby so they're unaware of how rampant it (Harassment/misogyny) is in many others. Get more exposure... Or you know... Don't.

Abandon4093:

John Funk:

Volf:
using the word rape to mean lose doesn't equate to sexism

No, but it does devalue the concept of rape as one of the most horrifying things a person can do to another human being, and certainly doesn't help deal with widespread rape culture.

Rape Culture 101. Educate yourself.

excerpt from article:

A rape culture is a complex of beliefs that encourages male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. It is a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent. In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm.

In a rape culture both men and women assume that sexual violence is a fact of life, inevitable as death or taxes. This violence, however, is neither biologically nor divinely ordained. Much of what we accept as inevitable is in fact the expression of values and attitudes that can change.

-1,000 points for the implication that sexual violence/aggression is something that only women suffer from. Or that society subconsciously encourages sexually aggressive males but not females.

Real life isn't so cut and dry. And there are two sides to every coin.

Reading comprehension, friend. "Encourages male sexual aggression," and "supports violence against women" are two different things. Did you read down to the part about 1 in 30 men being raped over the course of their lives and how it's considered an integral part of our criminal justice system? Pretty interesting if they're saying that only women suffer from it. However, women are OVERWHELMINGLY more vulnerable to sexual aggression, so yes, it does make sense to focus on them. "What about teh menz?" isn't always the answer.

And society does encourage sexually aggressive men and not women. Not subconsciously, either. Look up "slut-shaming."

Abandon4093:

John Funk:

Abandon4093:
Like any of that actually needed to be addressed.

1 asshole =/= even a small portion of people who play games. His opinion of gaming-culture, which is a nonsense phrase to begin with, means exactly the same. The only reason that douche got any attention is because he was on some shite TV show.

People like you, responding to this type of behaviour as if it's actually some sort of real issue and not a few lone nuts being retardly backwards are what give the stereotype of 'sexist gamers' credence. Because it gives the impression it's a serious enough issue for it to be addressed.

News flash......... it's not.

And BTW, 'rape' is not a sexist phrase. What is sexist is your assumption that that phrase is in someway, only demeaning to women. You didn't overtly state that, but I don't really see any reason for you to have brought it up if that wasn't your point.

"I'm raping you!" When used in the context of a competition is in no way sexually explicit. It simply means one side/person is dominating the other side/person. If you read any more into it than that, you've got hangups.

It is trivializing one of the most traumatic experiences a person can foist on another human being to a mere "LOLOL I'M WINNING." If you don't see any problem in that, then you're ignorant as hell.

I assume you mean the 'raping' part.

In that case when someone says "we're murdering you" or "I crippled your ass" (which are phrases I've heard just as much as 'raping' when playing fighting games, sports games and shooters against mates) we should reprimand them for being ignorant as hell because they trivialised murder and being crippled. Both things I'd argue are worse than rape.

It's not a trivialisation, it's got nothing to do with the actual act of rape. It just draws on the connotation of dominance that word evokes.

I really wish we didn't have to bubble wrap our words incase they bounce off the wrong person.

Again, refer to "Rape Culture 101."

Mae Aloril:

NinjaDeathSlap:
This was the best episode in a while. Pretty much everything that needs saying about nerd culture is here. Just replace 'women' with any other subject matter and its pretty much 100% interchangeable.

Although, in defense of the 'Why are we even talking about this?' argument, I don't think that necessarily means people don't want to admit that these problems exist, more just 'Why is it my responsibility to tell these assholes to grow up? Why can't I just be free to not be associated with them?'

With due respect, if you don't take responsibility, and I don't take responsibility, then no one will, and they will never change.

But they'll probably die sad and alone... So who gives a fuck?

If you're going to be a dumbass manchild chances are good eventually it will bite you in the ass. Me telling someone to stop being stupid is unlikely to have much effect. Ignoring them and allowing them to rot (assuming as a society we don't empower the behavior by associating with it much) is the easier option. And the one with most long lasting effects. Unless we're going to do something more effective then just call them assholes...

Sexual harassment is an important part of the fighting game culture? Did this ever actually happen?

Alloflifedecays:
Snip

Can you please not use the phrase "beta male", please. Everytime I hear it, a little bit of my hope in humanity dies a little

John Funk:

Abandon4093:

John Funk:

No, but it does devalue the concept of rape as one of the most horrifying things a person can do to another human being, and certainly doesn't help deal with widespread rape culture.

Rape Culture 101. Educate yourself.

excerpt from article:

A rape culture is a complex of beliefs that encourages male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. It is a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent. In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm.

In a rape culture both men and women assume that sexual violence is a fact of life, inevitable as death or taxes. This violence, however, is neither biologically nor divinely ordained. Much of what we accept as inevitable is in fact the expression of values and attitudes that can change.

-1,000 points for the implication that sexual violence/aggression is something that only women suffer from. Or that society subconsciously encourages sexually aggressive males but not females.

Real life isn't so cut and dry. And there are two sides to every coin.

Reading comprehension, friend. "Encourages male sexual aggression," and "supports violence against women" are two different things. Did you read down to the part about 1 in 30 men being raped over the course of their lives and how it's considered an integral part of our criminal justice system? Pretty interesting if they're saying that only women suffer from it. However, women are OVERWHELMINGLY more vulnerable to sexual aggression, so yes, it does make sense to focus on them. "What about teh menz?" isn't always the answer.

And society does encourage sexually aggressive men and not women. Not subconsciously, either. Look up "slut-shaming."

It's still a completely null point. We don't condone violence against women, far from it. As a culture we're much more accepting of women being violent to men than vies-versa.

Culturally we are far more likely to condone sexual violence if the woman is the perpetrator. Just look up that bullshit that happened with 'the view' or some other garbage day time chat show. When they brought up the story about that guy having his penis cut off and 3/4 of the panel burst out into fits of laughter and saying her probably deserved it, because he was a guy. They were then forced to do an apology, if that's what you could call it. Can you imagine that with the roles reversed? If a chatshow with male panellists had laughed at a women having her genitalia mutilated. They'd have been fired and probably had legal action brought against them faster than you could blink. I'm not bringing that up to whine about how women get preferential treatment etc, but you can't bring up cultural opinions about sexual violence and then ignore things like double standards.

That isn't an isolated case either.

Just look at that experiment.

Are you really going to say that we culturally support violence against women? Because that's just bullshit.

And on the harmless fetishisation side of things, females being dominant is ever more present in both pop-culture and the bedroom.

So no, I didn't read down to that part because frankly it's more of the same tripe that always get brought up in conversations like this.

"MOAAR WOMANZ GET WRAPED THERFOR EET MATTERS MUUR!"

Making up a concept such as rape culture and then focusing on it's effects on one gender/sex is so unbelievably hypocritical I can scarcely believe I'm having to point it out.

Women AND men are both the target of sexual violence and assault, to focus on one more than the other is tantamount to saying that one matters more than the other.

Not to mention I doubt the figures on the percentage of women that have been raped in comparison to the percentage of men that have been raped are even close to being accurate. What is it, like an estimated 1 in 6 women report rape or sexual abuse. I'd wager the ratio is even more alarming with men. Because there is an even greater social stigma attached to that, especially if you identify as a heterosexual male and happen to have been raped by another male.

And as far as I've seen female promiscuity hasn't been being demonised in general society for a long time. Yes there still are unbelievably backwards people out there that do things like 'slut shaming'. But I really don't think they can be considered representative of the average persons sensibilities.

I know it's certainly no-where near as accepted as male promiscuity, that's just another one of those unfortunate double standards. But it's becoming more and more accepted with each passing year.

And if you'd ask the average guy, I bet they'd admit to wanting the women to be the more sexually aggressive. I can say from a personal point of view that the more forward a woman is when it comes to sex, the better.

I'm pretty much going to put that 'rape culture' BS in the same category as Andrea Dworkins and her theory that all sex is rape because there's penetration.

Abandon4093:

John Funk:

It is trivializing one of the most traumatic experiences a person can foist on another human being to a mere "LOLOL I'M WINNING." If you don't see any problem in that, then you're ignorant as hell.

I assume you mean the 'raping' part.

In that case when someone says "we're murdering you" or "I crippled your ass" (which are phrases I've heard just as much as 'raping' when playing fighting games, sports games and shooters against mates) we should reprimand them for being ignorant as hell because they trivialised murder and being crippled. Both things I'd argue are worse than rape.

It's not a trivialisation, it's got nothing to do with the actual act of rape. It just draws on the connotation of dominance that word evokes.

I really wish we didn't have to bubble wrap our words incase they bounce off the wrong person.

Again, refer to "Rape Culture 101."

No no no.

You can't just bat that away.

Is saying "murder", "cripple" or any other word being used as a hyperbolic synonym for 'dominate', in the context of competition the same as saying "rape"?

If not, you'd better give me an actual reason. Not some quasi-feminist ramblings about our big bad culture being pro-raping women (because apparently raping men doesn't count) with a list of bias supposedly proving that.

lizabeth19:

Alloflifedecays:
Snip

Can you please not use the phrase "beta male", please. Everytime I hear it, a little bit of my hope in humanity dies a little

Alloflifedecays used the term incorrectly.

Despite your revulsion, I will have you know that I am a Beta Male, and quite proud of it.
Kindly reserve your cringing for memes that serve no function.

Capcha thinks I'm being presumptuous: hobby-horse

Reasonable episode, Bob. Fairly 'first lecture in womens' studies 101' (or whatever numbering system your local university uses), but an entirely sensible set of points brought about nonetheless.

It also serves to remind me that we should take Thomas Jefferson with a grain of salt. I may not agree with a thing you say, and if it's hate speech there is no sense in which I will defend your right to abuse me or anyone else with it.

Here's hoping we get a 'fun' episode as you call them next week.

Wow, the verbal gymnastics that are going on in this thread to justify shitty, sexist, neanderthal-like behaviour are nothing short of Olympic worthy.

Sadly I left my bag of torches at the vets office.

Well said Bob. These things do need to be talked about. Ignoring it wont solve anything. I was attending a convention last year that also had a BlazBlue tournament. Sadly there was only males participating in the tournament, but there was a good mix of races and I thankfully didnt hear any bigotry being spouted, just the usual chest thumping. So it was an enjoyable experience in that sense.

mandalorian2298:

sapphireofthesea:

mandalorian2298:
Disclaimer: The first sentence or the post that follows it is not meant to be baiting. I am a professor of philosophy and this is a sincere statement of my feelings.

Some of the views expressed in this video hurt me on a deep emotional level. If it was just one man's views then I wouldn't give it much thought since mistakes happen and it's often very hard to see, admit and correct one's own mistake. However, the delusion in question seems to have spread over large portions of humanity, including some of our best and brightest (Movie Bob being an example for both), and I am starting to feel like a the last sane guy in the asylum.

The mistake I am talking about is:

Unlike saying proven objective truths (for example "Randomly attacking people on the street will not make you popular among the police officers."), expressing purely subjective opinions does not obligate other people to agree with you (for example, I believe that the answer to most of philosophical question can be found in one or more episodes of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', but I do not think that the fact Stanford didn't include that show in their curriculum makes Stanford's philosophy program inadequate.)

So far, I am sure that most of you are on board with me. However, for reasons that are entirely mysterious to me, most people believe that, if they wish it REALLY hard, their subjective opinions will MAGICALLY BECOME OBJECTIVE TRUTHS! Aalakazam!

For the betterment of the human race, I present you with a short list of things that DO NOT transmogrify your opinions into objective truths:

1. Shouting.
2. The fact that YOU really believe it to be true, despite the lack of conclusive evidence (unless you are being played by Kevin Costner).
3. The fact that you find the opposing opinion offensive does not make you right, it makes you small-minded (or else every racist, homophobe or fanatic of any kind would be a moral authority by virtue of insanity).
4. Equating the act of expressing an opinion that you disagree with or using an expression that you dislike (but which in itself is not meant as an actual threat against the life or well-being of another person) with an act of aggression does not make you extra sensitive; it makes you insane. (this seems to be stupidity du jour these days. As a method of reality check, I invite all of you 'words can hurt just as bad' people to go to find a rape victim and say to him/her: "What happened to you is terrible. It is just as bad as using 'rape' as a casual synonym for defeat.")

People do not need your permission to have or to express an opinion. If you think that they are wrong - challenge them. If you know them to be logically incorrect - prove it. If you can't but you are still bothered that they are allowed to freely speak their mind -

THEN
GROW
THE
*CENSORED FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW THIS WORD EXISTS*
UP!!!

EDITED on 3.7.2012. 9.14h
5. The fact that many people share your opinion does not prove your opinion to an objective truth (if you disagree, then please prove me wrong. Gather a herd of people who also don't believe me and win the lottery 10 times in a row by making everyone share your belief that you are going to win. :)

Mr. Psychology professor. I am aware that this was meant for the non-science crowd. However, being a scientist myself and in the interest of further enforcing the validity of your argument, please provide some references for the points you have made, otherwise you are at risk of finding your own statements fall victim to your line of logic.

I personally find your above, unsupported, statement flawed, without reinforcement, and ignorant of the possibly of collective moralities playing a part in supporting a right or wrong ideal. I am no expert but I am aware of the contention in psychology surrounding the idea of morality. I would love to give references myself but it is late and it is not my field of study so I have no grounding to make an informed search of the literature.

First of all, I am not a psychology professor, I am a philosophy professor. The only reason that I have mentioned that in my post has been to explain why I care deeply about people making the mistake that I described in my post. The validity of my objection should be judged solely on it's coherency and the quality of my reasoning. I do not believe that my academic title, by itself, makes my reasoning more or less sound. For the same reason, I see no need to make a reference to other people's work in order to strengthen my case. Non quis, sed quid. (it doesn't matter who said something, it only matters what they said)

As for collective moralities, I believe that, while it is true that many groups of people share certain moral beliefs or whole moral systems, I do not believe that an opinion, moral or otherwise, becomes more valid simply because more people believe in it. Just because something IS does not prove that it OUGHT to be (Hume's Law). The fact that many people believe in something does not prove their belief to be either correct or moral (the moral system shared by the majority of Germans during Third Reich is a commonly quoted example).

In fact, that whole "many people sharing an opinion make that opinion true, will make a nice rule 5 for my original post:

5. The fact that many people share your opinion does not prove your opinion to an objective truth (if you disagree, then please prove me wrong. Gather a herd of people who also don't believe me and win the lottery 10 times in a row by making everyone share your belief that you are going to win. :)

My issue was less against your argument and more that your argument is unsupported. As best I am aware, even philosophy requires that positions be backed up by some 'evidence', in the case of philosophy I know it to be the opinion of other noted Philosophors.
So please find some referenecs to support your position otherwise your distinction of being a philosophy professor (in support of your position being informed) becomes only as valid as any of the other posters here.

The well informed inform, the Scientific refer.

John Funk:

Volf:

flying_whimsy:
This is probably the most pissed off I've ever heard movie bob sound; I don't blame him, either, as I've said the exact same thing on more than one occasion over the last few years. I remember calling some friends out on throwing the word rape around more casually than I was comfortable with and they looked at me like I grew a second head.

Seriously, nerd culture based sexism is something I would seriously like to see go away. Forever.

using the word rape to mean lose doesn't equate to sexism

No, but it does devalue the concept of rape as one of the most horrifying things a person can do to another human being, and certainly doesn't help deal with widespread rape culture.

Rape Culture 101. Educate yourself.

The theory of rape culture always seemed kind of sketchy to me. That author seriously thinks games with rape in them encourage a society where rape is not taken seriously? I'd love to see what evidence she has to support that but I'm guessing it's nothing.

John Funk:
"What about teh menz?" isn't always the answer.

So you don't think people should bring up rape against males in a discussion about rape in general? Good to know.

John Funk:

Abandon4093:

John Funk:

It is trivializing one of the most traumatic experiences a person can foist on another human being to a mere "LOLOL I'M WINNING." If you don't see any problem in that, then you're ignorant as hell.

I assume you mean the 'raping' part.

In that case when someone says "we're murdering you" or "I crippled your ass" (which are phrases I've heard just as much as 'raping' when playing fighting games, sports games and shooters against mates) we should reprimand them for being ignorant as hell because they trivialised murder and being crippled. Both things I'd argue are worse than rape.

It's not a trivialisation, it's got nothing to do with the actual act of rape. It just draws on the connotation of dominance that word evokes.

I really wish we didn't have to bubble wrap our words incase they bounce off the wrong person.

Again, refer to "Rape Culture 101."

Nothing in that article refers to how the use of rape in trash talk trivializes it.

How often have you heard "my parents are going to murder me because of my bad grades". Is murder trivialized? No. Far from it.

You can talk about how it makes people uncomfortable and is immature and you'd be right but the idea that it trivializes rape is debatable.

Random berk:
Sexual harassment is an important part of the fighting game culture? Did this ever actually happen?

I doubt it. I'm guessing this guy just thinks you can't have trash talk without sexual harassment.

Father Time:

Random berk:
Sexual harassment is an important part of the fighting game culture? Did this ever actually happen?

I doubt it. I'm guessing this guy just thinks you can't have trash talk without sexual harassment.

I wish this sort of view was only found in competitive gaming. It's been a growing problem in sports that "racial harrassment is an important part of sports" and apparently it is impossible to coach a black man without using the words "you lazy, thick, nigger". Still, people will try to defend these ideosyncrasies in culture and that is why it can't be tolerated, because if you do tolerate it and just hand out slaps on the wrist, they'll keep on doing it because "who cares, amirite?"

Well said Bob.

I never really understood their logic in the first place. These terms are inherent to fighting games more than they are to other genres or other professional competitions? Yea....maybe because the fighting game community tends to be full of more sadistic assholes than others. Why is it that boxers and UFC fighters can be respectful and shake hands at the end of a match, no matter how bloodied up one of them is at the others' hands?

These are the kind of things that are truly holding back our medium in the eyes of society.

And this is why I don't get involved in competitive multiplayer.

There's a difference between being genuinely racist/homophobic to the extent that any race you don't like/homosexuals sends you into a flying rage, and using the terms "faggot" and "nigger" as friendly insults. I try to not mention 4chan as much as possible here to avoid retribution from my brothers, but come on, only a few of you are truly homophobic and even fewer are truly racist! It depends on how it's used, I mean, RequestFag, a drawfag-there it is, "-fag" used as a friendly insult-is supposedly a woman, but hell, look at her name! Then you have the terms such as "mah nigga!" which is to show that you agree completely with someone, and is in no way racist. Using these as complete insults towards the people that fulfill the negative stereotypes is a different thing, but I won't go into that.

Using "rape" as a term for "horribly murderized" is... a weird one. I use it, my friends use it, lots of people use it! Hell, the main reason I like this picture so much.
image
Sure, I've trolled omegle with the "question" "rape is funny, deal with it." But that is one thing I DO NOT agree, rape is horrible in every possible way. Using rape as in "aw shit the Patriarch raped me with my own pipe bombs!" is alright, in my opinion.

Electrogecko:
Well said Bob.

I never really understood their logic in the first place. These terms are inherent to fighting games more than they are to other genres or other professional competitions? Yea....maybe because the fighting game community tends to be full of more sadistic assholes than others. Why is it that boxers and UFC fighters can be respectful and shake hands at the end of a match, no matter how bloodied up one of them is at the others' hands?

These are the kind of things that are truly holding back our medium in the eyes of society.

To be good at martial sports or arts you have to be able to control yourself
It is pain issue, those who cannot control themselves, looses adequacy with first received damage, and without adequate reaction to opponents actions you become easy target
Cases when professional martial athletes go nuts are either marketing tricks, or totally on purpose

You don't need any self-control to mash buttons

Thank you!
Well said.

Father Time:

John Funk:
"What about teh menz?" isn't always the answer.

So you don't think people should bring up rape against males in a discussion about rape in general? Good to know.

John Funk:

Abandon4093:

I assume you mean the 'raping' part.

In that case when someone says "we're murdering you" or "I crippled your ass" (which are phrases I've heard just as much as 'raping' when playing fighting games, sports games and shooters against mates) we should reprimand them for being ignorant as hell because they trivialised murder and being crippled. Both things I'd argue are worse than rape.

It's not a trivialisation, it's got nothing to do with the actual act of rape. It just draws on the connotation of dominance that word evokes.

I really wish we didn't have to bubble wrap our words incase they bounce off the wrong person.

Again, refer to "Rape Culture 101."

Nothing in that article refers to how the use of rape in trash talk trivializes it.

How often have you heard "my parents are going to murder me because of my bad grades". Is murder trivialized? No. Far from it.

You can talk about how it makes people uncomfortable and is immature and you'd be right but the idea that it trivializes rape is debatable.

Although I'm only annecdotal, I'm a good example of what you're saying. I use abhorrent language all of the time for a variety of reasons, with the key among all of them being that, unless I intend to offend, I am not trivializing anything by using intense language.

I am one of the most anti-rape people that I know, and freely admit that I would murder or maim someone that raped or molested (forcibly) a family member or friend. It is one of the most serious things to me, and I pay a lot of attention to news related to the law and how they relate to women.

On the other hand, I also pay a lot of attention to this news to watch for cases where men are punished by insane women who lie about being molested, because I'm a male and want to watch out, you know.

Unrelated note, are you the same Father Time from GamePolitics? If so, I totally remember you! I had this username, in the unlikely event that you remember some of my posts.

Double post. Damn internet.

mandalorian2298:
Disclaimer: The first sentence or the post that follows it is not meant to be baiting. I am a professor of philosophy and this is a sincere statement of my feelings.

Some of the views expressed in this video hurt me on a deep emotional level. If it was just one man's views then I wouldn't give it much thought since mistakes happen and it's often very hard to see, admit and correct one's own mistake. However, the delusion in question seems to have spread over large portions of humanity, including some of our best and brightest (Movie Bob being an example for both), and I am starting to feel like a the last sane guy in the asylum.

The mistake I am talking about is:

Unlike saying proven objective truths (for example "Randomly attacking people on the street will not make you popular among the police officers."), expressing purely subjective opinions does not obligate other people to agree with you (for example, I believe that the answer to most of philosophical question can be found in one or more episodes of 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer', but I do not think that the fact Stanford didn't include that show in their curriculum makes Stanford's philosophy program inadequate.)

So far, I am sure that most of you are on board with me. However, for reasons that are entirely mysterious to me, most people believe that, if they wish it REALLY hard, their subjective opinions will MAGICALLY BECOME OBJECTIVE TRUTHS! Aalakazam!

For the betterment of the human race, I present you with a short list of things that DO NOT transmogrify your opinions into objective truths:

1. Shouting.
2. The fact that YOU really believe it to be true, despite the lack of conclusive evidence (unless you are being played by Kevin Costner).
3. The fact that you find the opposing opinion offensive does not make you right, it makes you small-minded (or else every racist, homophobe or fanatic of any kind would be a moral authority by virtue of insanity).
4. Equating the act of expressing an opinion that you disagree with or using an expression that you dislike (but which in itself is not meant as an actual threat against the life or well-being of another person) with an act of aggression does not make you extra sensitive; it makes you insane. (this seems to be stupidity du jour these days. As a method of reality check, I invite all of you 'words can hurt just as bad' people to go to find a rape victim and say to him/her: "What happened to you is terrible. It is just as bad as using 'rape' as a casual synonym for defeat.")

People do not need your permission to have or to express an opinion. If you think that they are wrong - challenge them. If you know them to be logically incorrect - prove it. If you can't but you are still bothered that they are allowed to freely speak their mind -

THEN
GROW
THE
*CENSORED FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW THIS WORD EXISTS*
UP!!!

ADDED on 3.7.2012. 9.18h

5. The fact that many people share your opinion does not prove your opinion to an objective truth (if you disagree, then please prove me wrong. Gather a herd of people who also don't believe me and win the lottery 10 times in a row by making everyone share your belief that you are going to win. :)

Lol dude. Where do I even start? OK. Just to warm up I think you should know Moviebob often reminds his viewers (and frankly he does this more than necessary so you should really have known regardless of me telling you) that although he doesn't put a cute little disclaimer before all his videos, yes, everything that comes out of his mouth is an opinion because a) this isn't fucking debate club and b) this is the Internet, where nothing is fact and the fact I have to explain this to you (a so-called "professor of philosophy" [lol]) just shows the kind of decadent society we live in where even educated people aren't aware of basic social protocol.

OK. Next is this. WTF dude!? You are trying to disrepute "SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS" (lol) with more "SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS". Have you hit your head or something? Are you high on shrooms? Are you trollololing me?

Scratch this. You are no professor. You are waaaaaay too dumb to have actually read a whole book in your life. I'm guessing you spent your parents money on weed and beer morelike.

On top of that

Equating the act of expressing an opinion that you disagree with or using an expression that you dislike (but which in itself is not meant as an actual threat against the life or well-being of another person) with an act of aggression does not make you extra sensitive; it makes you insane. (this seems to be stupidity du jour these days. As a method of reality check, I invite all of you 'words can hurt just as bad' people to go to find a rape victim and say to him/her: "What happened to you is terrible. It is just as bad as using 'rape' as a casual synonym for defeat.")

Way to strawman. I'm speaking your lingo here. Appreciate it. Did Moviebob say commiting rape is the same as saying rape casually? I didn't realize he said that. Thank you, professor. Your amazing intellect has saved us all.

And seriously now, Moviebob's views upset you. And you are a philosophy professor (lol). Maybe you aren't the best to be telling people to.

GROW
THE
*CENSORED FOR THE SAKE OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW THIS WORD EXISTS*
UP!!!

Schopenhauer's views should have hurt you "on a deep emotional level". Ayn Rand's views should have hurt you "on a deep emotional level". Hobbes's views should have hurt you "on a deep emotional level". Fucking Hitler's views should have hurt you "on a deep emotional level". Moviebob saying it's not OK to call people names which are based on sexist oppression, especially when they ask you not to; that shouldn't be hurting a PROFESSOR OF PHILOSOPHY "on a deep emotional level". LOL

secretsantaone:

Shjade:

Neaco:

because when people are in direct competition of a violent nature, the important thing is being polite.

Playing a game, even a game that depicts violence, isn't a violent competition. Guys talking serious shit to one another in the middle of, say, a boxing match, or on the line in football, or something like that - sure, yeah, pretty much anything goes. 'Cause I'm sure as hell not going to try to get between them and ask them to speak nicely to each other.

Playing a videogame is a completely different situation. It's not much to ask people to behave in a more civil fashion there. Will it happen? Probably not.

I can see you've never played a competitive fighting game.

Have I ever played a fighting game in a tournament? No. (Edit: Actually, I take it back: I did play in a Mortal Kombat back when I was, oh, maybe 10 or so. As you might imagine, racial epithets were all the rage amongst the middle school crowd participating in that particular event with our parents supervising. That totally counts, right?)

Have I dominated a Guilty Gear XX Accent Core machine at the arcade for a two hour stretch? Yes. I've also watched groups going back and forth on Capcom vs. SNK, MVC 2, Melty Blood, SF3 3rd Strike, Soul Calibur 2 and 3, a couple other flavors of Guilty Gear XX, some King of Fighters game (way too many editions of that series for me to tell them apart since I don't play it), and so on and so on. Sometimes these gatherings get hectic. Most of the time it was pretty laid back with mostly "light" trash talk and very little on the racial/"heavy" side of things.

In case you're not getting the point: I can see you have no idea what you're talking about but are willing to make observations out of ignorance.

It's only violent if you make it violent. Like I said a couple pages ago, it's an individual thing: some folks are more crude, others aren't. It isn't inherent to the games.

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