The Big Picture: Not Okay

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
 

totally agree.

that guy is a complete moron. (no bias if you are looking at my avatar pic.... i could care less about his starcraft statement)

Daystar Clarion:

PsychedelicDiamond:
Woah... i'm not really familiar with the fighting game community but... is sexism really such a big problem there? That's disturbing. Now, i never really got to see any sort of misoginy in any gaming community (probably because i only frequent sites with such a great and tolerant community such as The Escapist... aww) but if that's an issue, well, it really shouldn't be. I have no idea why anyone should have any sort of aversion to women, it doesn't make sense and we should be smarter than that.

You'd be surprised.

I play a lot of UMVC3, and my name is Ashley, a predominately female name in 'Merica.

The amount of crap I get from guys who think I'm a girl is astounding, especially when I whoop their arses.

OT: Hey Bob, whose awesome? You're awesome.

Wait, wait. Since when was Ashley a boy's name?

No offense or anything :3

Darth_Dude:

Daystar Clarion:

PsychedelicDiamond:
Woah... i'm not really familiar with the fighting game community but... is sexism really such a big problem there? That's disturbing. Now, i never really got to see any sort of misoginy in any gaming community (probably because i only frequent sites with such a great and tolerant community such as The Escapist... aww) but if that's an issue, well, it really shouldn't be. I have no idea why anyone should have any sort of aversion to women, it doesn't make sense and we should be smarter than that.

You'd be surprised.

I play a lot of UMVC3, and my name is Ashley, a predominately female name in 'Merica.

The amount of crap I get from guys who think I'm a girl is astounding, especially when I whoop their arses.

OT: Hey Bob, whose awesome? You're awesome.

Wait, wait. Since when was Ashley a boy's name?

No offense or anything :3

Outside of the Americas, Ashley is more commonly a male's name than a female's.

It's an old Anglo Saxon name, meaning: from the Ash Tree.

Wonderful episode, and I pretty much agree with it's entirety but on the free speech thing, as soon as there legal ramifications for any kind speech, it is no longer free. Free speech should in fact protect him from LEGAL judgement, however, receiving SOCIAL criticism for hateful speech is of course fine, and hateful speech should be, and deserves to be challenged, but by people, not the law.

The only thing I don't understand is how using rape as a metaphor is wrong. Should pretty much all metaphors that emphasize an unlikeable condition be off limits? Must we always speak in banal, literal speech with regards to any unpleasantry?

E.g.
"They played you like a fool."

Is this wrong for its reference to people of inferior intellect?

"He was owned."

Is this unacceptable for its reference to slavery, a horrible actuality (despite its obvious metaphorical use)?

"The opponent utterly destroyed him."

Destruction of self... the imagery brought up with a literal interpretation is death of that person, i.e. his destruction. Is this equally wrong a statement?

The list goes on and on, and it includes "You were raped"

which is not literal in the slightest. It is a metaphor meant to stress a certain point, which it does just fine. Though a victim of actual rape has suffered greatly (and for example I believe a rapist deserves death for his actions), it is the raped person's fault if he cannot comprehend the obvious metaphorical use. It is also his fault if he overreacts to the use of the word rape. In other words, sticks and stones -- which holds even truer when the words weren't meant to hurt in the first place.

I have detected a certain confusion, I call it. So it is, as we know, obviously wrong to be racist. But people automatically apply that sensation of automatic wrongness to almost any insult based on a bad experience on unfairly given trait of humanity (e.g. raped, retarded, poor, etc.). However, these things cannot be wrong for the same reason as racism and its kin! Racism is wrong, because its use declares a certain race's inferiority, which is a falsehood. On the other hand, the state of having been raped, born retarded, or born into poverty are FACTUALLY BAD. What I'm trying to say is the same reasons do not apply to these insults as they do to racist insults. And they actually work in a literal sense -- since they are factually bad, they work to express certain bad states in an effective and politically correct fashion. For example, if someone does something silly, you can emphasize it by calling him a metaphorical retard, which is a factual condition that is characterized as having inferior mental faculties in comparison to at the least the population average. So it works. On the other hand, if someone did something generally seen as bad, and you call him "Insert race," you are positing that race somehow embodies that badness. This position is a falsehood, misleading, and therefore unfair and bad.

As someone who considers himself a part of the fighting game community, I was honestly pissed off at hearing Aris' "defense" of his attitude, as some outdated boys' club mentality. These aren't the days of dark, testosterone-filled arcades. As a senior and (formerly) respected member of the community, you have to show a little bit of class, especially on a big stage like Cross Assault was. Props to Shoryuken.com, being the biggest central hub of the FGC for responding as they did and so quickly. If there is a positive side to the incident, it meant that these gender issues were brought right to the forefront of the gaming community as a whole, and the FGC in particular, to the point where they can no longer be ignored, and MUST be addressed.

Kind of makes the whole Mike Ross/Jago incident seem like a really petty thing to get mad over, doesn't it?

I in no way condone the harassment of women, and I don't think it is or should be a part of gaming culture. However, this whole 'OMG Rape' thing is admittedly annoying in how childish it is.

When you and your pals are playing 'Insert generic brown FPS' and someone says, "Man, this wasn't any fun spawn camping the other team, I hate rape-games". Everyone in the chat knows exactly what that person means. Everyone knows this is no way harassing or belittling women, particularly since they aren't even talking about women what so ever. This has nothing to do with FPSs or gaming, either. A "Rape" is usually the description for an overwhelming victory at anything. You know what else is a description for an overwhelming victory? A murder. Anyone looking at this objectively could see there is a theme going here, and it has absolutely nothing to do with males trying to assert their dominance over women nor is it any form of sexual harassment. I would argue that using the word 'murder' is equally as offensive, considering that is as much a troubling and horrific crime as the former. But that's the point, the victory is being described as a horrific act rather then a run-of-the-mill game, and there are very few horrific things that can instantly convey the same results. Is this a good thing? hardly, but you have to be reaching pretty far to think that anyone who says, "Man, they were murdered out there" is (or is trying to be) insensitive to everyone with murdered family members. I think the same goes for rape, and I based this mostly on the words of level headed women who's opinions I greatly respect.

Something a very cool girl once told me when I asked her how she could stand to play Halo over XBL:
When you hear a distant group of people talking about something you find personally offensive, then walk over to them and make the situation about yourself; arguing that they must have been talking about you all along, that's not being a victim. That's being an obnoxious person wanting to be a victim, and is itself insensitive and insulting to everyone who actually is a victim of real harassment.

Don't get me wrong, she has been harassed (sexually and otherwise) over XBL to, but she knows the significant distinction to being 'sexually assaulted' and 'hearing guys say unpleasant things when they talk amongst themselves'.

Apparently the sad part is that in the moment when it was streamed, the live chat was actually agreeing with him. They supported him. It wasn't until after the fact when she threw the match and was unhappy with how she was treated that they looked back at the chat and realized that they were supporting is grown man in his degrading this girl because she was a girl.

He was making comments like how if she or another girl lost a match they would have to come back wearing a miniskirt to show off their legs, and the guys in the chat were talking about checking out her legs and wanting to have sex with her.

When she walked out people in the chat were pissed that she would respond the way she did and said things like, "He was just having fun." THEN they said, "If she had a problem with how she was treated she should have said something." She did. She walked out and later on threw a match because of how she was treated. That says a lot. Then again, they also called her childish for walking out and throwing the match.

There is probably a group of them who still think she was wrong.

I think what we need to ask ourselves is, is it necessary for the first amendment to include protection for hate speech, to protect any other kind of speech/press? In the broader picture, yes it is, because the social values behind our speech can only be determined by the people, not the government. And the supreme court, regardless of political persuasion, has always defended hate in both speech and press (internet counts as press).

The next question to ask is, does hate speech effectively silence issues of violence against women? It can, most certainly; media power is concentrated in a handful of conglomerate corporations in the world, and they're okay with giving a platform to Glenn Beck, Nancy Grace, etc. But that's a fault of the government, for falling to corporate greed and giving them too much power: the FCC has raised the cap on the number of broadcasting stations one company may own, beyond acceptable limits. It's ridiculous, really, how MSNBC will sound off on our moral outrage at what the conservative right say on Fox; yet they never acknowledge it's because they have the power to do so, because it would indicate a need to take away excessive broadcasting power from the other powerhouses, including NBC.

Alloflifedecays:
So glad to see this brought up. The sexism a lot of girls in nerd culture face is horrific - mostly because it's still pretty dominated by socially awkward beta males who've built up a seething resentment towards the women who never talked to them. But yeah, the childish, churlish, socially reactionary "boys' club" mentality needs stomping out hard.

Anyone else find it ironic that someone's complaining about sexism and propping up the beta/alpha male bullshit that enforces gender roles?

 Pages PREV 1 . . . 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here