The Big Picture: Not Okay

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Neaco:

mechanixis:

I say old chap:
Remember people, be politically correct and watch your language. Because that is what gaming should be about.

Captain, scanners are coming up with high liberal hubris.
Great mother of the respectocracy!

You know, for most of us, "don't be an asshole" isn't some kind of huge imposition.

because when people are in direct competition of a violent nature, the important thing is being polite.

Playing a game, even a game that depicts violence, isn't a violent competition. Guys talking serious shit to one another in the middle of, say, a boxing match, or on the line in football, or something like that - sure, yeah, pretty much anything goes. 'Cause I'm sure as hell not going to try to get between them and ask them to speak nicely to each other.

Playing a videogame is a completely different situation. It's not much to ask people to behave in a more civil fashion there. Will it happen? Probably not.

I am confused. You said we're winning. What are we winning? How, and by who's standards. It sure seems like for every Jack Thompson slapdown, there's another 10 popup to carry on the anti-gamer cause. Then there was sopa, and acta, and pipa, and etc. Who's winning what now? And then there's the media where games caused the death's in Norway. yeah.

And regarding this guy. Who is this person again? Why are games on tv? And wasn't there any editing involved? Or is this another one of those terrible reality tv shows designed to show off the worst of humanity for ratings?

Panorama:
Can i start with BOOM!!

Thank you bob, it might just draw you some more traffic, probably less then pc gaming is dead but still probably quite hefty. I feel i agree with pretty much everything and have nothing to add.

I think the PC gaming is dead stuff was mostly people mis interpreting the title and heading straight to the comments. While Bob says some pretty stupid and discriminatory stuff he has the moral high ground here and he is completely correct. When he is right he is a damn good man to get behind.

longboardfan:
I am confused. You said we're winning. What are we winning? How, and by who's standards. It sure seems like for every Jack Thompson slapdown, there's another 10 popup to carry on the anti-gamer cause. Then there was sopa, and acta, and pipa, and etc. Who's winning what now? And then there's the media where games caused the death's in Norway. yeah.

And regarding this guy. Who is this person again? Why are games on tv? And wasn't there any editing involved? Or is this another one of those terrible reality tv shows designed to show off the worst of humanity for ratings?

SOPA was anti internet not anti gaming as were the others. We are winning because the courts are siding with sense rather than those ridiculous clowns.

Shjade:

Neaco:

mechanixis:

You know, for most of us, "don't be an asshole" isn't some kind of huge imposition.

because when people are in direct competition of a violent nature, the important thing is being polite.

Playing a game, even a game that depicts violence, isn't a violent competition. Guys talking serious shit to one another in the middle of, say, a boxing match, or on the line in football, or something like that - sure, yeah, pretty much anything goes. 'Cause I'm sure as hell not going to try to get between them and ask them to speak nicely to each other.

Playing a videogame is a completely different situation. It's not much to ask people to behave in a more civil fashion there. Will it happen? Probably not.

Not even that. Just because you are in competition doesnt mean you have a right to forego respect and decency. Its not any better on a pitch, in a ring or with a controller in your hand than it is any where else. Its also poor sportsmanship and it degrades the respectability of the sport.

Akio91:

Lilani:

Akio91:
A few things. First off, Aris is a piece of shit who shouldn't be defended. Second off, TRASH TALK IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF NOT ONLY THE FIGHTING GAME COMMUNITY, BUT OF COMPETITIVE GAMING AS A WHOLE! I'm sure the woman involved knew that going in. Third, Aris is a piece of shit who shouldn't be defended.

Lol what? How old are you? Are you trying to troll or something?

I'm 20 years old, and have been a part of the Fighting Game Community since I was 12. We've ALWAYS talked shit to each other. Yes, sometimes is goes too far, but we shut each other up in combat, and didn't let people White Knight for us (which is exactly what's happening here). It's comments like yours that show just how little anyone who's commenting on this actually knows.

Just a reminder, I agree with Bob and Aris is a piece of shit.

You can stop saying "Aris is a piece of shit," I kinda get the message.

The way you talk about it, it sounded like you're defending the use of slurs. I get there's a difference between trash talk and slurs, but come on. I'm sure she did know there was trash talking going in, but I'm sure she also didn't expect the trash talking to single her out as a female and thus inferior. Is it also alright to call black people the N-word? Is it alright to call hispanics spics? Last I checked Bob, wasn't saying all trash talk is bad. He said sexual harassment and going completely out of your way to single out someone and make someone feel uncomfortable, inferior, or like a total piece of shit was bad.

Susan Arendt:
I think some folks in this thread aren't fully aware of what Aris did. This went beyond trash talking, it went beyond friendly competition. He held a camera on a girl and sexually harassed her, and when she told him to stop, he said she had to put up with it because he was her coach and it was in the rules that she had to do anything he told her to.

Trash talking your buddies is great, it's part of the fun, and nobody is suggesting it should go away. But making someone feel worthless and afraid, because you find it fun? There's no defending that.

That's the point I've been trying to make, and that's why I felt Bob went a little too far with this video.

Perfect example: I play fighters will almost exclusively African-American (like all fighters, mirite? xD), so we throw around the "dreaded N-word" pretty casually. Occasionally some white kids game with us, and we don't get mad when they use the word, since we're in a relaxed environment where all kinds of trash talk is accepted. That, and, that word doesn't bother us at all.

Once again, Aris is a piece of shit who shouldn't be defended in the slightest.

Like any of that actually needed to be addressed.

1 asshole =/= even a small portion of people who play games. His opinion of gaming-culture, which is a nonsense phrase to begin with, means exactly the same. The only reason that douche got any attention is because he was on some shite TV show.

People like you, responding to this type of behaviour as if it's actually some sort of real issue and not a few lone nuts being retardly backwards are what give the stereotype of 'sexist gamers' credence. Because it gives the impression it's a serious enough issue for it to be addressed.

News flash......... it's not.

And BTW, 'rape' is not a sexist phrase. What is sexist is your assumption that that phrase is in someway, only demeaning to women. You didn't overtly state that, but I don't really see any reason for you to have brought it up if that wasn't your point.

"I'm raping you!" When used in the context of a competition is in no way sexually explicit. It simply means one side/person is dominating the other side/person. If you read any more into it than that, you've got hangups.

Lilani:

Akio91:

Lilani:

Lol what? How old are you? Are you trying to troll or something?

I'm 20 years old, and have been a part of the Fighting Game Community since I was 12. We've ALWAYS talked shit to each other. Yes, sometimes is goes too far, but we shut each other up in combat, and didn't let people White Knight for us (which is exactly what's happening here). It's comments like yours that show just how little anyone who's commenting on this actually knows.

Just a reminder, I agree with Bob and Aris is a piece of shit.

You can stop saying "Aris is a piece of shit," I kinda get the message.

The way you talk about it, it sounded like you're defending the use of slurs. I get there's a difference between trash talk and slurs, but come on. I'm sure she did know there was trash talking going in, but I'm sure she also didn't expect the trash talking to single her out as a female and thus inferior. Is it also alright to call black people the N-word? Is it alright to call hispanics spics? Last I checked Bob, wasn't saying all trash talk is bad. He said sexual harassment and going completely out of your way to single out someone and make someone feel uncomfortable, inferior, or like a total piece of shit was bad.

I'm mad that we posted this at the same time. xD

And yes, I do defend the use of slurs depending on the environment. Just look at my last post.

"verbal violence"

...

smh

...

God, we are such a weak, pathetic people. When we are overrun and our civilization collapses, we will deserve it.

Disinfection via sunlight is indeed the only way to cleanse these weird, sweaty Fauxspergers creeps. I wonder how long before the medium becomes free of this particular taint..

MovieBob:
Not Okay

Bob takes on nerd sexism.

Watch Video

Welcome to the Age of Distraction. We no longer have to confront issues, because there are plenty of other things we can do.

Time was, if there was a problem like this, it was a showstopper. Everyone was surrounded by the issue and bombarded with the issue until it was dealt with. It was a boulder in the path that demanded removal. Now? Hell, it's the internet. There's not just one or two tubes to clog with your stupid boulder, it's a whole series of them.

The cause for this phenomenon? We've extended middle school into the adult world. We have so many ways to dodge responsibility that we never learn it. Let me share something from my middle school band classes:

- Student plays a passage badly, because they didn't practice.
- Student blames the instrument or the music for the mistake, and not lack of effort.
- Next time, student plays it softer (or just fakes it) to hide the mistake.
- Mistake gets worse due to timid playing, and gets harder to fix due to repetition.
- Student tries even harder to hide the mistake.
- Mistake gets worse due to... etc.

Now, from a middle schooler? Hey, that's normal. At this age, they're discovering that you, as an adult, are imperfect. They're focusing on your mistakes to distract themselves from their own. And failing to confront the mistake makes it worse, but that's where we come in and teach them...

...except, as a culture, we don't. And this same behavior shows up in the Man-Children of grown-up gaming (and elsewhere).

If the dog shits on the carpet, you don't just cover it with a paper towel and declare, "Mission accomplished!" You confront the problem, correct the problem, and then work to prevent the problem in the future. And you recognize that the dog will not do this himself, either.

Akio91:
I'm mad that we posted this at the same time. xD

And yes, I do defend the use of slurs depending on the environment. Just look at my last post.

If that's the kind of behavior you will stand up for, then please, don't try to act like you're above Aris or have better standards than he does. Because you don't. Embrace what you do for what it is--bullying. Bullies dehumanize and explicitly try to hurt people for fun, and that's what slurs are. And if that's what you want the fighting community to consist of, then don't insult the rest of us by sugar coating it or acting like it's not as bad as we think. Because it is as bad as we think, and you will deserve every bit of criticism you get.

I thought this was a rather poor episode.

When I first saw the title it seemed like Bob was going to talk about what form sexism took in nerd culture, what it looked like and why, etc.

Instead he told us that sexism was wrong. That is both so condescending and lazy to produce a video on that I can't imagine how he could justify it. Bob does this for his living and this is what he came up with?

Look it is a laudable sentiment which most of us would agree but it seems pointless to say sexism is bad because the vast majority of individuals on this forum would (hopefully) already know it and if they don't Bob has said nothing to make people change their minds at all.

Honestly this seems like well meaning fourteen year old stuff. It would be like having an episode telling me that "Blacks are people too!" in that it doesn't really do any real deep thinking on the issue.

ablac:

Panorama:
Can i start with BOOM!!

Thank you bob, it might just draw you some more traffic, probably less then pc gaming is dead but still probably quite hefty. I feel i agree with pretty much everything and have nothing to add.

I think the PC gaming is dead stuff was mostly people mis interpreting the title and heading straight to the comments. While Bob says some pretty stupid and discriminatory stuff he has the moral high ground here and he is completely correct. When he is right he is a damn good man to get behind.

oh yeah is correct, i wasn't agruing that, it was just i remember the pc gaming being dead was very popular (not always in positive way), yeah it was interesting and i wasn't aware of this happening till he pointed it out. Plus woot 333 posts half the devil, and my locker number at work.

Callate:
But where I get nervous is where Bob seems to be saying that there is no private place for attitudes or ideas that the general public finds offensive, only the public sphere where it comes right out of the gate to get immediately pelted with fruit for its intrinsic wrongness.

I don't remember Bob saying anything like that. I remember him saying something like this, but I believe the reason he took umbrage with it was because the claim behind it was that the Internet and the gaming community are these "last private places," which is total bullshit. They aren't private. They are public, and there are women there. You want to make a man cave and talk with your man friends about how you want the girl at the corner store to show her tits? Fine. Whatever. Be pigs amongst yourselves. But when you start treating real women like that, then it's gone too far.

Lilani:

Akio91:
I'm mad that we posted this at the same time. xD

And yes, I do defend the use of slurs depending on the environment. Just look at my last post.

If that's the kind of behavior you will stand up for, then please, don't try to act like you're above Aris or have better standards than he does. Because you don't. Embrace what you do for what it is--bullying. Bullies dehumanize and explicitly try to hurt people for fun, and that's what slurs are. And if that's what you want the fighting community to consist of, then don't insult the rest of us by sugar coating it or acting like it's not as bad as we think. Because it is as bad as we think, and you will deserve every bit of criticism you get.

I'm gonna assume you didn't read my post like I said. *shrug* Your loss. Stay mad.

Akio91:

Lilani:

Akio91:
I'm mad that we posted this at the same time. xD

And yes, I do defend the use of slurs depending on the environment. Just look at my last post.

If that's the kind of behavior you will stand up for, then please, don't try to act like you're above Aris or have better standards than he does. Because you don't. Embrace what you do for what it is--bullying. Bullies dehumanize and explicitly try to hurt people for fun, and that's what slurs are. And if that's what you want the fighting community to consist of, then don't insult the rest of us by sugar coating it or acting like it's not as bad as we think. Because it is as bad as we think, and you will deserve every bit of criticism you get.

I'm gonna assume you didn't read my post like I said. *shrug* Your loss. Stay mad.

Then tell me what parts I missed. I got "Aris is a piece of shit" and that you agree with Bob, but somehow that leaves room for defending slurs which doesn't make sense in my book.

What the spluttering fuck was that coach on about?
"Asking for fighting games to be without sexual harrassment is like asking for basketball to lack a basket ball."
Yeah, sure. I agree, it is utterly impossible to operate a gamepad without first honking a woman's tits. Next they'll be expecting people to play chess without the banjo solos. It can't be done!

Well-said, Bob. The sooner we loose these anti-_________ feelings in the game community, the better...

mandalorian2298:
Disclaimer: The first sentence or the post that follows it is not meant to be baiting. I am a professor of philosophy and this is a sincere statement of my feelings.

Credentialing also does not turn statements into objective truths. Now, if your experience as a philosophy professor somehow came into the realm of this topic, I wouldn't consider this to be "credentialing," but in this case... it just seems to be something meant to add illusory weight to what you've said.

However, for reasons that are entirely mysterious to me, most people believe that, if they wish it REALLY hard, their subjective opinions will MAGICALLY BECOME OBJECTIVE TRUTHS! Aalakazam!

I'm not seeing this. I'm seeing a belief that you're apparently expressing as though it were an objective truth... but it's not, is it? That's not how you mean it, though, and I understand that.

You're expressing your belief in definite terms, because we (as intelligent beings) can already work out the idea that it's "your opinion." So you don't feel compelled to put fifteen "IMHO" or "YMMV" disclaimers in each sentence. "That's your opinion" is such a useless statement that pollutes far too many discussions (In my humble opinion; your mileage may vary!).

As for your list:

The first two are pretty basic and general. They apply to everyone, but you haven't demonstrated their specific bearing to the task at hand. Introducing unrelated premises and proving them right in order to prove the original, unrelated premise? Surely you, as a philosophy scholar, are familiar with ideas like "non sequitur" and "strawman argument." This kind of rides the line between them...

3. The fact that you find the opposing opinion offensive does not make you right, it makes you small-minded (or else every racist, homophobe or fanatic of any kind would be a moral authority by virtue of insanity).

The stance is that doing things deliberately to be offensive is "not okay." There is no "objective" measure for "okay," so arguing that it's not an objective truth is a fruitless line of discussion. Are you saying that it's okay for someone to be deliberately offensive, but it's not okay for the offended to then retaliate?

4. Equating the act of expressing an opinion that you disagree with or using an expression that you dislike (but which in itself is not meant as an actual threat against the life or well-being of another person) with an act of aggression does not make you extra sensitive; it makes you insane. (this seems to be stupidity du jour these days. As a method of reality check, I invite all of you 'words can hurt just as bad' people to go to find a rape victim and say to him/her: "What happened to you is terrible. It is just as bad as using 'rape' as a casual synonym for defeat.")

(EXAMPLE) "You are a retarded shitwit with thin, greasy hair, and you should be raped into a coma," would not be an example of "an expression you dislike." It's an example of something I could say to someone to offend and hurt them. That moves it beyond the bounds of simple "free speech," and into the more complicated realm of other people's freedoms.

But you decide to go into the problem of degrees. Words don't hurt as much as rape, therefore no one can say words hurt? Fine. Rape doesn't hurt as much as being skinned alive, so no one can say rape hurts, right? The general idea is that words can hurt a lot more than people think they can, not that words "hurt as much as rape." Strawman again.

(Also, I doubt the objective truth of your seemingly-overstated qualifications. As with any discussion, if you're not willing to provide evidence to back up a claim, it's really not admissible as any kind of support.)

Lilani:

Akio91:

Lilani:

If that's the kind of behavior you will stand up for, then please, don't try to act like you're above Aris or have better standards than he does. Because you don't. Embrace what you do for what it is--bullying. Bullies dehumanize and explicitly try to hurt people for fun, and that's what slurs are. And if that's what you want the fighting community to consist of, then don't insult the rest of us by sugar coating it or acting like it's not as bad as we think. Because it is as bad as we think, and you will deserve every bit of criticism you get.

I'm gonna assume you didn't read my post like I said. *shrug* Your loss. Stay mad.

Then tell me what parts I missed. I got "Aris is a piece of shit" and that you agree with Bob, but somehow that leaves room for defending slurs which doesn't make sense in my book.

I replied to someone else at the same time you replied to me.

Perfect example: I play fighters will almost exclusively African-American (like all fighters, mirite? xD), so we throw around the "dreaded N-word" pretty casually. Occasionally some white kids game with us, and we don't get mad when they use the word, since we're in a relaxed environment where all kinds of trash talk is accepted. That, and, that word doesn't bother us at all.

And before you get your gender-neutral undergarments in a tizzy, I'm black.

Shjade:

Neaco:

because when people are in direct competition of a violent nature, the important thing is being polite.

Playing a game, even a game that depicts violence, isn't a violent competition. Guys talking serious shit to one another in the middle of, say, a boxing match, or on the line in football, or something like that - sure, yeah, pretty much anything goes. 'Cause I'm sure as hell not going to try to get between them and ask them to speak nicely to each other.

Playing a videogame is a completely different situation. It's not much to ask people to behave in a more civil fashion there. Will it happen? Probably not.

I can see you've never played a competitive fighting game.

Lilani:

Akio91:
I'm mad that we posted this at the same time. xD

And yes, I do defend the use of slurs depending on the environment. Just look at my last post.

If that's the kind of behavior you will stand up for, then please, don't try to act like you're above Aris or have better standards than he does. Because you don't. Embrace what you do for what it is--bullying. Bullies dehumanize and explicitly try to hurt people for fun, and that's what slurs are. And if that's what you want the fighting community to consist of, then don't insult the rest of us by sugar coating it or acting like it's not as bad as we think. Because it is as bad as we think, and you will deserve every bit of criticism you get.

The fighting game community is one of the most diverse gaming communities in existence, just watch a stream sometime. You'll see black guys, Asian guys, white guys, fat guys, skinny guys, buff guys etc. All of them talk shit to each other, and they talk shit right back. There's a reason the people on the stream chat are referred to as 'stream monsters'. The thing is everyone knows that's just how it is, so no one really gets offended by it.

The problem is Aris went way too far. Firstly, he was her coach, so he didn't even need to shit talk to her. Secondly, it went way beyond acceptable levels.

After a woman loses a round, you can say 'Go back to washing dishes' / 'Go back to turning tricks, it's all you're good at' or something like that. That's banter, you pick up on something and make a joke about it. What you can't do is keep the camera on her legs and make lecherous comments for no reason. That's sexual harassment.

Bob! BOB! BOBBB!

*wild applause*

Akio91:

Lilani:

Akio91:

I'm gonna assume you didn't read my post like I said. *shrug* Your loss. Stay mad.

Then tell me what parts I missed. I got "Aris is a piece of shit" and that you agree with Bob, but somehow that leaves room for defending slurs which doesn't make sense in my book.

I replied to someone else at the same time you replied to me.

Perfect example: I play fighters will almost exclusively African-American (like all fighters, mirite? xD), so we throw around the "dreaded N-word" pretty casually. Occasionally some white kids game with us, and we don't get mad when they use the word, since we're in a relaxed environment where all kinds of trash talk is accepted. That, and, that word doesn't bother us at all.

And before you get your gender-neutral undergarments in a tizzy, I'm black.

Well of course, I thought it sort of went without being said that if nobody minds the words that are being thrown around, then there is no problem. I mean why would there? I was specifically talking about when words are being used that are hurtful AND unwelcome. Sorry about the confusion.

I say old chap:
3) Connecting one to two via three, I would argue that you can push a liberal agenda, try to brow-beat the intolerant, publicly shame them, but this will only cause more reaction online, a greater show of what you hate. This is because the mockers can be anonymous and get away with it. If you argue against sexism, there will still be sexism, as inexcusable as it is.

Here's the thing: The point of shame, as a weapon of social-change, is not about changing people's minds by making them ashamed of themselves - most people, by the time they reach adulthood, don't fundamentally change. The point is to render their viewpoint so shameful in the eyes of the culture at large that it is progressively less likely to take hold in others as time goes on.

To put it another way; you don't change the world by making the man ashamed of himself, you change the world by making the son ashamed of the father.

Lilani:

Well of course, I thought it sort of went without being said that if nobody minds the words that are being thrown around, then there is no problem. I mean why would there? I was specifically talking about when words are being used that are hurtful AND unwelcome. Sorry about the confusion.

Okay. That's why I kept stressing the part about Aris. He need his ass whopped in the worst way, and he's ruining casual trash talk for everyone.

MovieBob:

I say old chap:
3) Connecting one to two via three, I would argue that you can push a liberal agenda, try to brow-beat the intolerant, publicly shame them, but this will only cause more reaction online, a greater show of what you hate. This is because the mockers can be anonymous and get away with it. If you argue against sexism, there will still be sexism, as inexcusable as it is.

Here's the thing: The point of shame, as a weapon of social-change, is not about changing people's minds by making them ashamed of themselves - most people, by the time they reach adulthood, don't fundamentally change. The point is to render their viewpoint so shameful in the eyes of the culture at large that it is progressively less likely to take hold in others as time goes on.

To put it another way; you don't change the world by making the man ashamed of himself, you change the world by making the son ashamed of the father.

That's a myth. People are capable of learning and self-improvement well into old age. It's true that their brains are a little less plastic, but that potential never completely goes away. It doesn't mean older people are a lost cause.

Edit: Oh, hey, Bob. I just wanted to add that your videos are the reason I still visit The Escapist. Stay classy.

You also haven't heard his more immediate justification for what he did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdYEYzv2E5A

It's sad that I feel I have to say this but: Your freedom ends where it infringes on someone else's.

ReiverCorrupter:

Well, depending upon your sexual proclivities it might be considered a utopian future. Especially if there is an ample supply of spandex.

Touché, good sir.

Smilomaniac:

Copenhagen. But it goes for any western city with a +million inhabitants.

You still haven't explained your method of time travel nor your century of origin.

It's not a doctrine or cult mentality, just a bunch of bad advice and typical of a home dictated by a dominant mother or society built on "gender equality". In my case it was the latter.

Oh, I see. This isn't some dystopian future, it's some sort of broad brushing based on your own experiences, which may or may not be hyperbolic. I stand corrected. I assumed you came from some place of validity. Clearly, I was in error.

Smilomaniac:

Zachary Amaranth:

Did you enjoy knocking down that strawman? It seemed therapeutic.

Thing is though, no one is denying that there's a problem with sexism or discrimination. The problem is that the focus is on women and their problems only. Sadly, it's probably the only way for most to take it seriously.

Thing is, no-one is denying that men ever get discriminated against, but that doesn't mean that it's as prevalent or that pointing out rampant sexism swinging the other way is somehow ignoring that it exists.

longboardfan:
I am confused. You said we're winning. What are we winning? How, and by who's standards. It sure seems like for every Jack Thompson slapdown, there's another 10 popup to carry on the anti-gamer cause. Then there was sopa, and acta, and pipa, and etc. Who's winning what now? And then there's the media where games caused the death's in Norway. yeah.

Uhhh, we won this thing not-so-casually referred to as a Landmark Supreme Court case where video games were guaranteed the same First Amendemnt rights as all other forms of expressive media. Did you miss that? It wasn't even a split decision - it was 7-2 in favor.

http://ti.me/wDn1uK

That's WINNING.

I'd say the reason that we don't talk about it has more to do with the fact that the majority of the people in our community that spew such bullshit are the adolescent or pre-adolescent gamers than anything else. There isn't really any constructive/productive way to talk to these kids about it.

I wish more people were as on the ball about everything as Bob and seriously, wtf is wrong with this world? How do people like Aris even exist?

The sentiments expressed in this video are all very admirable and I agree that sexism is a bad thing, but the hypocrisy present in it coming from someone who constantly objectifies women in his movie reviews really angers me.

Seriously, if you make big 'ooh aren't I progressive' statements like this it's probably best not to continually reduce actresses to a pair of boobs or a pretty face.

Okysho:
I agree, rock on bob! Seriously! I can't believe there are people trying to justify this... I haven't seen the clip in quesiton myself, but what the hell is this guy trying to justify?

Love the ending statement there too bob! This is why I watch your show.

Don't congratulate him for calling out a guy if you don't know what he did. It makes you sound like a giant idiot.

I have typed and retyped a post for this thread several times, but i seem to be incapable of doing so without resorting to angry gibbering, so I'll instead say that i mostly agree with bob for once, and leave it at that

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