Zero Punctuation: Syndicate

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I feel that "Peter Molineux Month" is coming soon

The sad fact is, half the people supporting this game are going to be the people who remember the original fondly and, through nostalgia coloured glasses (Yes nostalgia is a colour) will pick this up AND THEN realize it's a piece of shit. Making EA think it was popular and make a sequel!

Next up, Dungeon keeper, but instead of being evil and building your own devious dungeon you play the good guys, and it's a first person open world RPG, cause, you know, Skyrim's popular.

Qitz:

Antonio Torrente:

It's a shame that its developer StarBreeze laid off its some employees after finishing the development of this game.

Anyway, can you think of another old IP that big game companies could use and might suffer the same fate as Syndicate?

Wasn't Xcom being "re-made" as an FPS shoot as well? Coming from a Strategy game. It seems pretty much any game that had guns will be re-made into an FPS.

The FPS XCOM game has been delayed actually, the current timeline has the proper strategy re-imagining XCOM: Enemy Unknown coming out before it.

Ah, the FPS era claims yet another victim.

I must say, the only reason I am even somewhat interested in this game is because it is made by Starbreeze and from my experience they have always been good at making games based on existing franchises, like Chronicles Of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay.

"A syndicate ran by Brian Cox doing his best Rip Torn impression".
I laughed my ass off.

Hack the planet!

I wish I could get upset, but gamers are getting what we deserve because of what other gamers (or their parents) spend money on.

If gamers and kiddie gamers stopped throwing money at first person shooters that are nothing but graphics engines with games stapled on, we could have some damn variety.

Hmm. Random thoughts.

When Fallout gets remade into a shooter, it's accepted with blind fan glee, accolades and awards (to some small amount of polarizing controversy).

When X-COM gets remade into a shooter, it's rebuked by a chorus of hate so strong that it forced 2k to give Firaxis the task of making a much more awesome looking game.

When Syndicate gets remade into a shooter, it's accompanied by another chorus of hate, said hate is ignored, and nobody is surprised when it turns out to be a bland forgettable mess that virtually nobody likes or wants.

What a shock.

Now we just have to see how the X-COM games turn out.

I'm just waiting for RTS season to come around again and have all FPss of now re-made as RTSs...

Well as EA holds the 'syndicate' name we won't ever get a proper remake. Still waiting on dungeon keeper. Needs to be a time limit if the titles aren't developed.

Turning a game that would be something different in todays gaming (and cheaper to produce), and instead turning it into another generic FPS, omg.

Mr.Tea:

Andy of Comix Inc:

...ah well. Every review for this game I see makes me slightly less mad that it got banned in Australia. Speaking of which.... Yaaahtzeee wheree'd you get yoour cooppy from? Sneaky bugger.

Probably at GAMETRADERS ROBINA, just like SSBB.

Gametraders Robina shut down. It no longer exists. As I rudely found out when I visited Robina during a Queensland holiday to find it deserted and in the process of being constructed into what I can only assume is a Starbucks. =_=

6SteW6:
The sad fact is, half the people supporting this game are going to be the people who remember the original fondly and, through nostalgia coloured glasses (Yes nostalgia is a colour) will pick this up AND THEN realize it's a piece of shit. Making EA think it was popular and make a sequel!

Next up, Dungeon keeper, but instead of being evil and building your own devious dungeon you play the good guys, and it's a first person open world RPG, cause, you know, Skyrim's popular.

Ummmmm No .... Just No. I love the old Syndicate. I wouldn't support this piece of pandering crap if they were giving it away. Not to mention the fact of its being released by Electronic Arses.

Andy of Comix Inc:

Mr.Tea:

Andy of Comix Inc:

...ah well. Every review for this game I see makes me slightly less mad that it got banned in Australia. Speaking of which.... Yaaahtzeee wheree'd you get yoour cooppy from? Sneaky bugger.

Probably at GAMETRADERS ROBINA, just like SSBB.

Gametraders Robina shut down. It no longer exists. As I rudely found out when I visited Robina during a Queensland holiday to find it deserted and in the process of being constructed into what I can only assume is a Starbucks. =_=

You've still got more gametraders stores than us over in Western Australia! We've only got the one in Centro Galleria in Morley

OT: The more I see game remakes into FPS, the more I dread the day when they decide to make MLP into an FPS

Sooooo... another generic modern shooter that fails to have any type of gameplay or story to have it compete with the big FPS franchises like CoD and Battlefield that has a brand recognition that reaches fanbases that don't exist or will want to ostracize and protest the game as loudly as possible, ensuring a minimal, if no profit.

If it wasn't for Battlefield and BioWare, I'm sure EA would have drowned in its own drool from all of the retarded decisions its been making regarding these reboots.

Renegrade:
I like the part around five minutes where he describes the two groups who might be interested in this title.

It's spot on. I'm part of the latter "setting the publisher's office on fire" group. I expect a re-imaging of a game to improve it, flesh it out, etc. Not dumb it down.

The people in the former "too young to remember it" group won't give a damn about any of that, so EA might as well just give it another name that doesn't involve any licensing issues.

I'm glad the X-Com shooter got pushed back and (hopefully) replaced with a more appropriate remake. If they go ahead with the shooter in the long run, they should ditch all the X-Com references. A clean slate would give them more creative freedom in the shooter, and avoid angering those of us who remember the old strategic game. Heck, if it works out under it's own franchise, that's another franchise for gamers to enjoy, and the publisher to sell.

Why can't more re-imagings be like Battlezone (1998) or Battlezone II? (problems with bugs and forward compatibility aside)

Sad and true. But if you think about it, there wasn't any reason to expect anything else. Since the PC exclusive is dead, and it'd be nigh on impossible to replicate old school Syndicate's gameplay on the home console, another bloody FPS is about all they could do with the property.

Besides, it's not like the transition to FPS didn't work for Fallout, right? It's just too bad EA didn't follow Fallout's example of maintaining the depth and complexity of the original.

just to hear €A makes me want to kill someone. its so obvious that this game will suck as a shooter. i dint had any interest in it at all.
damn, already mass effect 3 with its bad ending makes me wonder if it was €As idea so they can cash in.
anyway, i will not get any €A title anymore. ME3 was the last game with their logo on.

Antari:

6SteW6:
The sad fact is, half the people supporting this game are going to be the people who remember the original fondly and, through nostalgia coloured glasses (Yes nostalgia is a colour) will pick this up AND THEN realize it's a piece of shit. Making EA think it was popular and make a sequel!

Next up, Dungeon keeper, but instead of being evil and building your own devious dungeon you play the good guys, and it's a first person open world RPG, cause, you know, Skyrim's popular.

Ummmmm No .... Just No. I love the old Syndicate. I wouldn't support this piece of pandering crap if they were giving it away. Not to mention the fact of its being released by Electronic Arses.

Ummmmm Yeah......so good you are not the half I was talking about, congrats! The sad fact remains though, there are a bunch of folks who will see the Syndicate brand, fondly remember Syndicate, pick it up out of nostalgic glee and then only realise it's crap. Not all gamers do their homework you know.

DanDeFool:

Renegrade:
I like the part around five minutes where he describes the two groups who might be interested in this title.

It's spot on. I'm part of the latter "setting the publisher's office on fire" group. I expect a re-imaging of a game to improve it, flesh it out, etc. Not dumb it down.

The people in the former "too young to remember it" group won't give a damn about any of that, so EA might as well just give it another name that doesn't involve any licensing issues.

I'm glad the X-Com shooter got pushed back and (hopefully) replaced with a more appropriate remake. If they go ahead with the shooter in the long run, they should ditch all the X-Com references. A clean slate would give them more creative freedom in the shooter, and avoid angering those of us who remember the old strategic game. Heck, if it works out under it's own franchise, that's another franchise for gamers to enjoy, and the publisher to sell.

Why can't more re-imagings be like Battlezone (1998) or Battlezone II? (problems with bugs and forward compatibility aside)

Sad and true. But if you think about it, there wasn't any reason to expect anything else. Since the PC exclusive is dead, and it'd be nigh on impossible to replicate old school Syndicate's gameplay on the home console, another bloody FPS is about all they could do with the property.

Besides, it's not like the transition to FPS didn't work for Fallout, right? It's just too bad EA didn't follow Fallout's example of maintaining the depth and complexity of the original.

To be honest, Fallout is still on my "to play" list. I heard horrible reports of bugs in an otherwise cool game, so I held off to give 'em time to patch, and um, the procrastination sort of got out of control. I wasn't aware they dumbed it down though :(

I'm actually hoping to see a revival of sorts in the PC scene with things like Steam. Obviously we're not going to see "AAA" titles anytime soon, but I can see up and coming studios releasing PC-exclusive games, especially if they can twig on to things like Steam and "not charging $79.95 for what's basically Quake 1 with higher res textures and a few mods thrown in for free".

If a developer could price something cheaply, and make a good effort that doesn't involve an art department that's better funded than most movie studios, I think we could see a resurgence in quality, complex gaming on the PC side, while leaving the playable-movie big-budget, lowest-common-denominator crud on the consoles.

In fact, I noticed that Carrier Command is getting a remake, and so far from the brief clips they've shown, it looks like a spiffied up version of the original, rather than a dumbed down FPS. The mantas and walruses (is that how you say that? walrus? walruses? walrii?) go under full AI control when you're not operating them, instead of just a very limited autopilot... If they distribute properly, for a reasonable price, and it even vaguely lives up to expectation, it could do very well. Especially if people would stop pirating everything that's made out of bits.

I wonder if we could start a grass-roots movement for this purpose?

Anyhow..I just hope they learn about forward compatibility this time -- it's not impossible, I still play around with a DirectX 3 game (that I wrote in the mid-late nineties) on a Win7/64 system. Even though somehow Star Trek Armada, which is what, DX7+? won't run on anything past Win98.

Atmos Duality:
Hmm. Random thoughts.

When Fallout gets remade into a shooter, it's accepted with blind fan glee, accolades and awards (to some small amount of polarizing controversy).

When X-COM gets remade into a shooter, it's rebuked by a chorus of hate so strong that it forced 2k to give Firaxis the task of making a much more awesome looking game.

When Syndicate gets remade into a shooter, it's accompanied by another chorus of hate, said hate is ignored, and nobody is surprised when it turns out to be a bland forgettable mess that virtually nobody likes or wants.

What a shock.

Now we just have to see how the X-COM games turn out.

I was wondering about that myself actually. Why is it that everyone is up in arms about Syndicate, when Fallout 3, went in the opposite direction. When I first heard about VATS and all this FPS nonsense, I was plenty butthurt in the outset. Fallout Tactics being one of my favourite games, turned into an FPS game, I wanted to see blood.

I guess they just got off easier because Fallout turned out to be a pretty good game, and Syndicate was just as you said, a bland forgettable mess. Unfortunate timing as well, since Deus Ex actually managed to live up to some expectations, and is also kind of a modern entry of a classic, that just does the cyberpunk action/FPS that much better.

I don't even want to look up news about X-com. I just hope that this FPS remake will die off eventually, and they'll make remakes at least closer to the genre of the games they were originally. I'm going to get the new Jagged Alliance when the price drops a bit, fingers crossed they at least kept the atmosphere in that.

The original syndicate was a strange game for me. One day I was looking at the PC games on my shelf and it was there (I was in my early teens at the time so you gotta figure around 10-11 years ago).

Now you might say to yourself "so?" but my point is I don't know how it got there. If my parents put it there they never told me. I never purchased it. I sure as heck don't have friends who just leave me unopened games in big cardboard boxes.

I remember reading the box and thinking "This sounds so neat!" and wanting to give it a run. Except the problem was it wouldn't run on my computer.

I don't know what the minimum requirements were but for whatever reason I couldn't figure out how to get it to install and run on my XP. It's been so long I can't really remember what I tried or if it was just that Derpy eggshell PC I had for a bit that was only good at bluescreening.

But regardless, this is the only game to have ever spontaneously appeared on my shelves. I have never figured out how I got it and now that this reminded me of it I want to ask my parents and see if they even remember. Doubtful since its been over a decade since it happened.

Man...just googling it brings back some odd memories. It's from 93, that seems to explain what my problems might have been.

JohnnyDelRay:
I don't even want to look up news about X-com. I just hope that this FPS remake will die off eventually, and they'll make remakes at least closer to the genre of the games they were originally. I'm going to get the new Jagged Alliance when the price drops a bit, fingers crossed they at least kept the atmosphere in that.

Already are for Xcom and I'm cautiously optimistic :).

Firaxis is making it I believe.

doggie015:
You've still got more gametraders stores than us over in Western Australia! We've only got the one in Centro Galleria in Morley

OT: The more I see game remakes into FPS, the more I dread the day when they decide to make MLP into an FPS

We don't have any here in Tasmania. Hell, we only have one Starbucks I think. WHAT KIND OF BACKWARDS STATE IS THIS D:<

Also, MLP is already a fighting game so stop dreading and start counting the days. Doomsday clock at 5 minutes to midnight... death by ponies... :(

*Message at end*

I actualy work at Mcdonalds...

It seem that EA's good decisions regarding Syndicate were all peripheral to the actual game such as hyping the Big-name musicians and writer and forgetting that they might have to put something imaginative into the actual game.

I think they missed out by ditching the original Syndicate's mindless automatons controlled by corporation chips. In this mode as a Coporation Executive you'd be floating above a zone controlling FOUR agents not one. Yes in first person mode you could really only control one agent at a time but you could switch between them while the rest could be controlled by AI that you manage with the Adrenaline/Perception/Intelligence drugs from the original game.

DanDeFool:

Renegrade:
I like the part around five minutes where he describes the two groups who might be interested in this title.

It's spot on. I'm part of the latter "setting the publisher's office on fire" group. I expect a re-imaging of a game to improve it, flesh it out, etc. Not dumb it down.

The people in the former "too young to remember it" group won't give a damn about any of that, so EA might as well just give it another name that doesn't involve any licensing issues.

I'm glad the X-Com shooter got pushed back and (hopefully) replaced with a more appropriate remake. If they go ahead with the shooter in the long run, they should ditch all the X-Com references. A clean slate would give them more creative freedom in the shooter, and avoid angering those of us who remember the old strategic game. Heck, if it works out under it's own franchise, that's another franchise for gamers to enjoy, and the publisher to sell.

Why can't more re-imagings be like Battlezone (1998) or Battlezone II? (problems with bugs and forward compatibility aside)

Sad and true. But if you think about it, there wasn't any reason to expect anything else. Since the PC exclusive is dead, and it'd be nigh on impossible to replicate old school Syndicate's gameplay on the home console, another bloody FPS is about all they could do with the property.

Besides, it's not like the transition to FPS didn't work for Fallout, right? [b]It's just too bad EA didn't follow Fallout's example of maintaining the depth and complexity of the original.[b]

If you were in front of me I would punch you right now. Fallout 3 was about a freaking teenager 'saving' the wasteland (aka 50 people and a cow in some ruins) by making a water purifier downstream that doesn't actually change anything. Freaking vampires, fvcked up lore. . no choices/consequences or good characters or anything good from the originals. And the writing. . oh god. [intelligence] So you fight the good fight with your voice? I repeat exactly what you said so I'm smart?

targren:

ViewFinder:
The end summed these reboots up quite nicely.

You mean the part of about the target audience being the ones who would either not know about the original, or just not have been the ones who liked it?

Mostly that part, yes.

I've wondered that myself. Do these marketroids honestly expect nostalgia to carry them through beyond the first sucker with a web show getting tricked, then making enough noise to warn his contemporaries of the scam?

I'm seriously curious. Do they actually promote this sort of "thinking" to the soulless hordes going for marketing degrees?

I'm not entirely sure what you are getting at, English not being my first language and all that, but I suppose yes, some could think that way.

Love the London riots reference :)

The ending words is exactly what I've been wondering all this time (same with the xcom shooter). Who is responsible for this clearly stupid decision?

JohnnyDelRay:
[quote="Atmos Duality" post="6.354214.14070066"]
I was wondering about that myself actually. Why is it that everyone is up in arms about Syndicate, when Fallout 3, went in the opposite direction. When I first heard about VATS and all this FPS nonsense, I was plenty butthurt in the outset. Fallout Tactics being one of my favourite games, turned into an FPS game, I wanted to see blood.

I guess they just got off easier because Fallout turned out to be a pretty good game, and Syndicate was just as you said, a bland forgettable mess. Unfortunate timing as well, since Deus Ex actually managed to live up to some expectations, and is also kind of a modern entry of a classic, that just does the cyberpunk action/FPS that much better.

I don't even want to look up news about X-com. I just hope that this FPS remake will die off eventually, and they'll make remakes at least closer to the genre of the games they were originally. I'm going to get the new Jagged Alliance when the price drops a bit, fingers crossed they at least kept the atmosphere in that.

Probably because Fallout clearly isn't an FPS, but an RPG. An RPG that is in First person and where you shoot things yes, but that is not really the definition of an FPS now is it?
The change in perspective didn't really fundamentally change why people played fallout that much.
I can't believe I've read this several times in this thread already, since the situations are so clearly different. Some people may not like where Fallout 3 went, but it was clearly made with Fallout in mind. Fallout tactics is more the odd-man out in this universe.

Atmos Duality:
Hmm. Random thoughts.

When Fallout gets remade into a shooter, it's accepted with blind fan glee, accolades and awards (to some small amount of polarizing controversy).

When X-COM gets remade into a shooter, it's rebuked by a chorus of hate so strong that it forced 2k to give Firaxis the task of making a much more awesome looking game.

When Syndicate gets remade into a shooter, it's accompanied by another chorus of hate, said hate is ignored, and nobody is surprised when it turns out to be a bland forgettable mess that virtually nobody likes or wants.

What a shock.

Now we just have to see how the X-COM games turn out.

Fallout didn't manage the transition to first person without flak.
In fact, it weathered a shitstorm before it got released.
It managed to stick to its roots and was good enough to endear most of Fallout 1 and 2's fanbase.
Besides, it's not a generic FPS; it's still an RPG, only with guns and in first person perspective.

Syndicate gets shit because people expected it to be another it to be another victim of FPSitis.
And they were right.
All that made Sydicate good was completely scrapped.

And X-COM is getting shit because the game looks like yet another victim of FPSitis.

Why developers take old and loved games and then rape them is beyond me.
"Hey guys, let's make a sequel to Freelancer! And let's remove the space stuff and make it an FPS!"

The Ending is so true. :D

Denamic:

Fallout didn't manage the transition to first person without flak.
In fact, it weathered a shitstorm before it got released.
It managed to stick to its roots and was good enough to endear most of Fallout 1 and 2's fanbase.
Besides, it's not a generic FPS; it's still an RPG, only with guns and in first person perspective.

See, I never played the old Fallout titles, apart from a multiplayer spawn of Fallout Tactics at a LAN. I never had that pre-existing bias, so perhaps I just dodged a great deal of that flak by happenstance, because it wasn't NEARLY as intense as the rage and bile slung at Syndicate and X-COM.

Ironically, I was filled with rancor AFTER I played Fallout 3, not before.
Honestly, I never bought the "It's an RPG with guns, not a shooter" argument at all, though that goes beyond the scope of this topic just a bit.

kingmob:

Probably because Fallout clearly isn't an FPS, but an RPG. An RPG that is in First person and where you shoot things yes, but that is not really the definition of an FPS now is it?
The change in perspective didn't really fundamentally change why people played fallout that much.

Fact is, most conflict is going to involve firearms, and you fight/act from the first person perspective. That's the definition of first-person-shooter. Now, whether you think FO3 is mostly a shooter or not, well, that's subjective (barely; it's nearly impossible to avoid the shooter elements without going out of your way, and VATS was implemented in a rather clunky manner towards that end).

However, it's safe to assume that Fallout 3 will at least appeal to shooter fans, which is good-enough for the sake of this topic and my point of discussion.

Denamic:
Syndicate gets shit because people expected it to be another it to be another victim of FPSitis.
And they were right.
All that made Sydicate good was completely scrapped.

And X-COM is getting shit because the game looks like yet another victim of FPSitis.

Why developers take old and loved games and then rape them is beyond me.

It's the PUBLISHER who makes that decision. They're the people who buy up and own the actual Intellectual Property in the game business world, and they decide what sort of game gets made.

"Hey guys, let's make a sequel to Freelancer! And let's remove the space stuff and make it an FPS!"

The sad thing? As sarcastic and silly as that's meant to sound, I could honestly see someone pitching that idea at a shareholder meeting without a hint of irony.

DOUBLE POST: For Readability. Don't hate.

JohnnyDelRay:

I guess they just got off easier because Fallout turned out to be a pretty good game, and Syndicate was just as you said, a bland forgettable mess. Unfortunate timing as well, since Deus Ex actually managed to live up to some expectations, and is also kind of a modern entry of a classic, that just does the cyberpunk action/FPS that much better.

While DX:HR isn't without its faults, it's mostly a great game and well-received.
And I'm pretty sure that EA intended their Syndicate project to coincide with the boost in popularity DX:HR was going to bring to the cyberpunk genre. It was probably a gamble, but a good one.

If anything, this would be around the safest time to launch Syndicate (or any other cyberpunk shooter); they're not competing with the Christmas Blitz (CoD4.4, Skyrim, etc), yet the demand for cyberpunk is likely still there.

I don't even want to look up news about X-com. I just hope that this FPS remake will die off eventually, and they'll make remakes at least closer to the genre of the games they were originally. I'm going to get the new Jagged Alliance when the price drops a bit, fingers crossed they at least kept the atmosphere in that.

I'm guessing it won't die off. But looking on the bright side, the Squad-based tactics X-COM game getting made looks EXACTLY like what a modern imagining of an X-COM should. Modernized graphics, cleaner presentation, yet it's keeping the core elements alive, rather than discarding them entirely like how Syndicate did.

Of course, the X-COM shooter is still green-lit, but being pushed back to make way for the fore-mentioned tactics game first. Do with that what you will.

Incidentally, Firaxis released a new video for the tactics game called "Deep Dive". There's an article with the video right here on The Escapist.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.353287-XCom-Deep-Dive-Reveals-Deep-Tactics-and-Snazzy-Eye-Candy#14020012

Journey next plz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Leviano:
Love the London riots reference :)

What? Where? When? I'M CONFUSED RAARGH!!

(Seriously, I couldn't find anywhere. Some direction would be appreciated)

People still buy EA games?
color me surprised

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