Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

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I agree with Yahtzee's point about the bigger picture, I just don't want to buy anything from BioWare again.

GamesB2:
So you call people out for not having reasons,

No, these were my words:

DrVornoff:
Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.

I didn't say they had "no reason" just that the most vocal whiners haven't presented any good ones that actually refute the points they're bitching about. There's a huge fucking difference.

Maybe if they were taken seriously when they first posted their three paragraph long reasons and the writers of these kind of articles had realised that we'd rather they address our counter arguments rather than collectively agreeing with each other, reiterating the same points that don't directly address people's problems with the ending and then pretty much telling everyone to 'Suck it up', then they wouldn't have become bored of it and resorted to simply pointing out when yet another writer falls into the category of 'Games are art, your arguments are invalid'.

That assumes that you were one of the ones making a decent argument and then moving on with his/her life. At this point, how should I know if you were one of them? I don't know you from Adam.

Here's the thing, if you're one of the people who said, "I didn't like the ending and here's why. It's a shame, but nothing to do now but move on," then the words of people like Yahtzee and Shamus Young don't apply to you. If on the other hand you're not one of those people, then don't assume that your argument is perfect and it's everyone else's fault and that they're too ignorant to understand.

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DrVornoff:

And at what point did, say for example, Yahtzee say that the ending was well-written? I don't remember him saying any such thing. So then what is the "it" to which he is not privy?

True, he did not say it was well written. It is also true that it's a matter of opinion. However, how can someone excuse bad execution and lies? While it is true that some game devs can't quite hold true to everything, it's a bit of a different thing when this little detail concerns ending a series such as this.

And most of them suck. Or come across as whining. Or are poorly supported. Or are just infuriatingly arrogant. The thing is, people who don't like the ending have been so damn vocal about it for so many damn days that it's impossible to not hear their reasons for being upset. That doesn't mean I have to agree with them 100%.

They suck? A matter of opinion. Same goes for whining. Now at the badly supported point, I can see that. However, is this because you simply didn't agree with it or was the post like "Endings suck, bye"? Arrogant kinda goes under matter of opinion depending on what you saw.

I think it makes sense so many people are vocal about this. It's a game that a lot of people have been looking forward too and frankly didn't like what they saw for reasons that have been said elsewhere. Then of course other chime in arguing against? Is it really that big of a deal?

On the last bit there we can both agree. You don't have to agree with me, I don't have to agree with you. Best thing about conversations eh?

Besides, look at the number of people who just post, "Point? Missing it," or something similarly snarky and then fucking off to do whatever it is they do. Am I supposed to take them seriously? Am I supposed to believe that they really have some kind of lucid, intelligent argument if I just opened my mind up to their brattiness and saw the tormented soul within?

True, those who just say "X" without supporting it with "Y" are not helping any. However, I could argue that they might have posted this long explanation elsewhere, and simply feel like copy-pasting into another ME3 thread yet again. Does that always fit? Hell no, but disregarding ALL arguments just because of those isn't helping anyone, on both sides.

The problem Yahtzee is that your sounding off without understanding the issue. The spirit of Mass Effect is supposed to be upbeat, the point is that these cycles are NOT unchangable. You can avert the Krogan cycle by having the right people in charge (like Wrex and his girl) and even broker peace between the Geth and The Quarians to end that cycle.

The ending of the game does not fit with the theme of Mass Effect at all, invalidating 90% of what your saying.

The rest is simply invalidated by the fact that the ending of Mass Effect was created entirely to make money, as opposed to end the story. EA/Bioware decided it wanted to draw this out into a franchise and created an ending that effectively does as little as possible (since it could all also be in Shepard's mind) to make that as easy as possible. They also set the ending up to be as monetized as possible, I am actually apalled that no reviewers have noticed that to get all the variations on the ending you need to buy DLC to obtain more war assets when they release it, play the multiplayer which is monetized with an "I win" button in the form of buying weapon packs for cast, or invest in their planned apps to have alternative ways of raising galactic readiness.

It's important to note that Bioware also planned this as a triology way back with "Mass Effect 1" and said flat out they had the storyline already written and planned, and were not making this up as they went along. The planned/leaked $3 ending app made it clear that the developers were writing the ending towards the end of the development process, which definatly seems to imply that they canned the original ending given their new plans to further monetize the series. This is before you get into Bioware itself saying that the ending would answer all the questions, and not simply be an A B or C type desician/resolution when that is exactly what they did. Given Bioware's own statements, the leaked interviews saying that they intentionally planned to not give all the answers and were lying, is why there is a complaint against them going to the FTC, and also apparently a civil lawsuit in the works that is already being filed.... for fraud and false advertising, not just because the ending sucked. Bioware very much WAS involved in lying to it's customer base and was caught red handed this time.

tehweave:
He's right you know. This is the ending they wanted, it's the ending we got. Deal with it.

I expected Shepherd to die and lo and behold, he did. The relays were destroyed. Alright. What's the problem? I don't see one. It's the inevitable ending that was going to happen. It concluded. I'm actually pretty okay with it. It isn't perfect but it's at least finished. Done. Concluded. Is that the big problem?

You should take a look here.

The sad part is, that's not all, but the vid does show some of the biggest problems with the ending.

DrVornoff:

Gigatoast:
Well you certainly haven't been looking very hard for explainations, there's one at the top of this page and probably about a hundred others on this site alone.

Or maybe I don't find the explanations to be all that good. It is possible to read an argument and still not buy into it.

There's VOLUMES written about the ending, short ones, long ones, simple ones, exaustive ones, humorous ones, over-zealous ones, and they don't all say the exact same thing. If you are capable of understanding then there's someone out there that you can understand and identify with. If you just don't feel like understanding then you shouldn't try to wheigh in on something that's none of your business.

DrVornoff:

Also, the majority of the "retake" crowd don't hate Bioware or even the game itself, just the ending. So yes, I'm pretty confidant this can be considered you "not getting it".

Maybe I'm just sick of hearing it. I have no problem with people who just plain didn't like the ending. What I have a problem with is the people who won't shut the fuck up about it and move on with their lives. The people who insist that the ending must be completely redone to appease them (though thankfully those are becoming fewer in number). The people who react to anyone with an opinion other than their own with, "You don't get it. Also you're an asshole."

So your problem is with people talking about it at all? This is just like the brony wars, you can ignore them, if you argue with them about it then you're just keeping the discussion from moving to something else. You're just tired of people being passionate about something? Well tough s**t, you can't just say "I'm not interested in what you're talking about so stop talking about it." you're the one who got yourself involved.

Also, the "retake" crowd hasn't deminished in size, they've actually grown since people have started finishing the game for themselves. BSN isn't exactly slowing down on the issue, and I've seen several 'defectors' who recently beat the game and joined up with the retakers. The community's just become less vocal since getting confirmation Bioware's going to do something. If that something is just more deflective PR bulls**t you can bet your ass this rage is going to continue.

tehweave:
He's right you know. This is the ending they wanted, it's the ending we got. Deal with it.

I expected Shepherd to die and lo and behold, he did. The relays were destroyed. Alright. What's the problem? I don't see one. It's the inevitable ending that was going to happen. It concluded. I'm actually pretty okay with it. It isn't perfect but it's at least finished. Done. Concluded. Is that the big problem?

How about the problem that everyone who was on Earth at the time, you know the Asari, Quarians, Turians, Krogans, Salarians, all those people, are now stuck there and have no way to get back home? Because that's a big one. What happened afterwards? Why was Joker and the rest of my crew flying away? Where did they land? Who are the old man and young boy at the end talking about "The Shepard"?

You see, so little explanation in a poorly executed ending.

tautologico:
I get the disappointment and how the ending not being so good affects the overall quality of the experience, but I still think Mass Effect is something special as a series, and ME3 in particular. So what I'm saying is that I don't think the ending ruins the whole series. Actually, ME3 has the most difficult choices to make, with more far-reaching consequences than anything on the series before.

It's also the first time a game trilogy tells a single story sticking to a continuity based on the player's character, instead of a general canon continuity that is fixed. I still think that's pretty good.

It really is special, it's 3 games, 89 hours and 50 minutes of brilliantly constructed story and gameplay that syncs.

Unfortunately the last 3 minutes leave a very bad taste in your mouth.

Which wouldn't be so bad, but as you might see all over the place, there were people, including me, that wanted to restart Mass Effect 1 with a wildly different character then go through all three games to see how everything ends up.

I no longer want to, and, surprisingly, a hell of a lot of other people no longer want to either.

This is what makes the ending viably series destroying, the great thing about 1 and 2 were that once I was done, I wanted more, I wanted to experience other things, and 95% of ME3 does this too, while exploring the internet before finishing it I saw and heard of things happening, wildly different that what happened to me and sometimes I was amazed how much I didn't realise could've happened.

Now, I have no motivation to see those differences, when an ending goes so nuclear that it ruins the past 99% of the experience, something is seriously wrong.

Taunta:

Fr]anc[is:
So EA gets to fuck with the writer's (btw, the head writer for ME1 was gone for ME3) story, but the fans don't?

The point is that it's Bioware's (not EA's) story, and not the fans' story. You're allowed to have your opinion of the story, you're even allowed to write fanfiction that changes the ending if you're displeased with it, but he's addressing anyone who feels entitled to a different ending. It's figuratively like reading a book, and then after finishing it crumpling it up and throwing it back at the author, yelling "No! You got it all wrong! Do it again!"

It's the author's story. They are entitled to end it with whatever message they want. Now if you don't feel entitled to a different ending, but you feel like the current one was poorly mishandled, that's an entirely different story.

I am very much aware of what the point that's been made by everyone and their grandmother about ME3 is. MY point is that Bioware isn't just one guy doing his own thing. Remember Tali's recruitment mission? That whole dark energy thing was supposed to go somewhere that makes the larval reaper seem less retarded. But the 'author' in your analogy is gone, EA waltzed in and changed things, put different guys in charge, and then probably butchered THEIR work to sell later as DLC. It's already been tampered with, someone already came in and made changes. And yes, if the book was crap I would throw it back telling them to do it again. They don't have to of course, which everyone who makes that tired point fails to mention. But I'm not just going to pat them on the head and give them a cookie like a condescending grandmother and say good job. We don't want our ending, we just want one that doesn't fucking suck.

Limecake:

Listen, I have empathy for my fellow gamer for most things. But not this.

This whole ME3 ending thing was blown way way out of proportion. I can understand you are upset and saddened by the ending but that's where my empathy ends.

You can be dissatisfied with a game, you can be pissed all your questions weren't answered, you can be upset with bioware and even boycott future games. But you aren't entitled to tell the developers what to do.

If you don't like how they do business/make games/talk to customers/make videos/listen to music than you are fully within your right to not support them don't buy their products, don't visit their forums and don't hang onto their every word like it's a promise.

but don't buy their game and then complain you don't like it and they need to change it, it's asinine. I have a copy of alone in the dark but you don't see me petitioning Atari to take out the driving sections and replace it with something better.

not to mention the whole 'retake mass effect' movement couldn't be any more disorganized, other than 'we want a new ending' everyone involved seems to have a different idea of what should happen.

can we just move on now?

Smertnik:
I love how every time someone speaks against this whole retake ME3 nonsense people just dismiss everything with 'Meh, s/he just doesn't get it'

because obviously the hatred for Mass Effect 3's ending must be unanimous across all gamer culture.

Here is why I have a problem with what you are saying; I was personally disappointed with the ending of ME3, although this is the first time I have expressed that on the internet, so I am not one of these so called whiny fans. (I would like to believe in the Indoctrination Theory, but I'm not sure Bioware can be that subtle.) The vast majority of people who disliked the ending don't actually believe that they control it, and should get to decide what happens, as various people on this site who shall remain nameless keep telling us. We are simply disappointed and are telling the creation of the content that we personally didn't like it. This is an entirely acceptable thing to do in any form of creative medium. The backlash against the ending has been mind blowing, but perhaps this should tell Bioware something.

We are not expressing our entitlement to have Bioware do what we want with the series, we are simply telling them that we didn't enjoy it. If they subsequently choose to alter the ending in some way, then they are doing that to fix what we didn't like. This, again, is entirely reasonable.

tl;dr People are giving Bioware legitimate feedback, what they choose to do with that is their business, and it shouldn't be seen as people thinking they own the content themselves.

I hope a lot of us consumers learn not to trust bioware again, this whole experience has been souring.

And if the big lesson from the ending is "you dont always get what you want", then I hope people take notice of this lesson and apply it to all related things.

Bioware isnt selling enough games, "well tough you dont always get what you want

Internet Reviewers arent getting enough hits on their pages or videos "well tough you dont get what you want"

I hope people that read this get the not so subtle hints.

Ticonderoga117:
True, he did not say it was well written. It is also true that it's a matter of opinion. However, how can someone excuse bad execution and lies? While it is true that some game devs can't quite hold true to everything, it's a bit of a different thing when this little detail concerns ending a series such as this.

I don't recall him excusing anything.

And here's the way I see it: if the ME3 ending is the worst thing to happen to you this month, you're doing loads better than me.

I think it makes sense so many people are vocal about this. It's a game that a lot of people have been looking forward too and frankly didn't like what they saw for reasons that have been said elsewhere. Then of course other chime in arguing against? Is it really that big of a deal?

The fact that it's getting in the way of having a conversation about anything else is starting to grate a bit. I feel the same way whenever any topic erupts that monopolizes the discourse for more than a couple of days.

True, those who just say "X" without supporting it with "Y" are not helping any. However, I could argue that they might have posted this long explanation elsewhere, and simply feel like copy-pasting into another ME3 thread yet again. Does that always fit? Hell no, but disregarding ALL arguments just because of those isn't helping anyone, on both sides.

I'm of the opinion that if you're going to open your mouth, you must be prepared to back up what you're saying. That's why I'm replying to you now. I put my opinion out there, and I am now being called on to explain myself. In other words, if some person can't be fucked to back up their words, I can't be fucked to give them anything more than a scoff.

bioware spent the best part of 3 games telling you that you were creating your shepards journey. but at the end they take that away it its completely their product.

it may sound obvious but its why alot of people were so disapointed.

ME3 was my favourite game of 32 years of gaming. not i dont give a rats ass if they change the ending or give it an epilogue

Somebody Send this to Movie Bob. This is (more or less) the appropriate way to respond to shit like this. I say more or less, because he make comments like "Idiot fans" and "Cock heads." This being Yahtzee though, I assume that was added for comedic effect since the rest of the article isn't in that vein.

The difference between this and Bob's response is Yahtzee is being perfectly reasonable about this. He doesn't like what people are doing and explains why. He even, almost, convinced me. He's not throwing a fit. He's not attacking people (except, again, at the very end, and that feels intentional). He's just stating his opinion and why.

Someone tell me why Yahtzee is the only "Journalist" being sensible about this. The fuck is the the world coming to?

Fr]anc[is:

Taunta:

Fr]anc[is:
So EA gets to fuck with the writer's (btw, the head writer for ME1 was gone for ME3) story, but the fans don't?

The point is that it's Bioware's (not EA's) story, and not the fans' story. You're allowed to have your opinion of the story, you're even allowed to write fanfiction that changes the ending if you're displeased with it, but he's addressing anyone who feels entitled to a different ending. It's figuratively like reading a book, and then after finishing it crumpling it up and throwing it back at the author, yelling "No! You got it all wrong! Do it again!"

It's the author's story. They are entitled to end it with whatever message they want. Now if you don't feel entitled to a different ending, but you feel like the current one was poorly mishandled, that's an entirely different story.

I am very much aware of what the point that's been made by everyone and their grandmother about ME3 is. MY point is that Bioware isn't just one guy doing his own thing. Remember Tali's recruitment mission? That whole dark energy thing was supposed to go somewhere that makes the larval reaper seem less retarded. But the 'author' in your analogy is gone, EA waltzed in and changed things, put different guys in charge, and then probably butchered THEIR work to sell later as DLC. It's already been tampered with, someone already came in and made changes. And yes, if the book was crap I would throw it back telling them to do it again. They don't have to of course, which everyone who makes that tired point fails to mention. But I'm not just going to pat them on the head and give them a cookie like a condescending grandmother and say good job. We don't want our story, we just want one that doesn't fucking suck.

You just want one that "doesn't fucking suck", presenting one as an objective term.

First of all, whether or not it "fucking sucks" is your opinion. So when you say you just want a story that doesn't suck, you mean that you want one that is tailored to your interests. A story made to appeal to you. And that's not how writing works. You may not like it, but the writers aren't writing to please you.

And yes, there are multiple writers on a team. I'm aware of how these things work. I am referring to them as a conglomerate "artist", assuming that they communicate with each other and work on the same wavelength.

And sure, you'd throw the book back at the artist and tell them to do it again, but you'd still be wrong for doing it. What you fail to grasp is that there is a very large difference between wishing they would change it, and demanding. Critics who give constructive criticism are doing it because it is their job to do so, not because they have some sense of entitlement as fans. Yes, Bioware still has the option of listening to you, but that still doesn't make you look any better for demanding it. Why does only one party require choice?

"fuck bioware and don't buy from them anymore."

This was the third or so post I saw on here, and several more like sentiments after, and this is why they need to consider their fans.

I get what Yahtzee is saying, and he is saying it better than any other rabid critic I have heard from, but the key issue is I don't want Bioware to stop making games. They make good games. But if people invest 150+ hours into a series (and seriously to the people saying 300+ hours, how the hell are you doing that?) they want to feel it was worth while. I generally enjoy the journey more than the destination, but even so a bad ending can leave a sour taste in your mouth. It makes it hard to go back to that well since last time it tasted horrible.

What I would prefer to see is gaming companies takinga step from movies and get test audiences to view the ending and tweak as needed. I haven't gotten ME3 yet, but I still plan to when the price drops. I haev heard the rest of the game is great. I do hope Bioware learns frmo this and works better at all aspect of the games and gives us a quality product.

DrVornoff:
That assumes that you were one of the ones making a decent argument and then moving on with his/her life. At this point, how should I know if you were one of them? I don't know you from Adam.

Here's the thing, if you're one of the people who said, "I didn't like the ending and here's why. It's a shame, but nothing to do now but move on," then the words of people like Yahtzee and Shamus Young don't apply to you. If on the other hand you're not one of those people, then don't assume that your argument is perfect and it's everyone else's fault and that they're too ignorant to understand.

Why should I say 'It's a shame, nothing to do now but move on', someone doesn't have a decent argument unless they accept that what they're arguing for will never change anything, they just accept inevitability?

People don't sit there and spend a good amount of their time writing out a constructed argument that takes everything into consideration, points out flaws, discusses what could've been done better/what was done worst, just to say 'Oh but it doesn't matter, such is life'.

That's completely backwards logic.

Have you read the post about the most recent Mass Effect book?

If not, go read it, you can see how passionate the fans are, the amount of plot holes and inconsistencies with the series and fans dedicated their time to list every single one.

And then they were promised that the book would be revised for future editions.

Mass Effects ending was bad.

Many endings out there are bad.

When you have a fan base this dedicated, a series, this good, then you piss it away in the last 10 minutes, damn right you're going to get a backlash, that ending should never have existed, it's an affront to all the time the developers but in and all the time the fans put in.

As you may tell, I had very high hopes for the Mass Effect franchise.

tautologico:
I don't think any of these people writing about the controversy is saying you don't have a right to not like the ending, to complain about it, to never buy Bioware games again, etc. No one is telling you what to think about the game or the ending.

The problem is that some fans feel that Bioware "owes" them a better ending or some such, and try to demand a new ending from them. This is what most journalists are talking against, not the fact of not liking the ending.

...except for that fact that BioWare PROMISED things they things they didn't keep.

There is nothing wrong with people feeling that a company "owes" them something if they sold them a product based on false pretences. If a seller showed up on your doorstep offering to sell you a product, you purchase it and it doesn't live up to the expectations, you are actually legally entitled to either a refund or a new product (unless you in some way are responsible yourself).

It's admittingly a bit harder to translate this to an entertainment product, bnut the principle is the same, and I'd be surprised if it was impossible to win a court case on this if you have actual evidence (advertisements, developer interviews) that they sold you a product under false pretences.

As usually happens (though not every time) I think Yahtzee has hit the nail on the head. Of course we can't change the sequel-and-DLC machine over at EA. The reapers have to be done and apparently the mass relays are done too. Instead all they really have to do is explain two categories of things.

First: how did the mass relays, which the last DLC for ME2 told us would destroy the solar system they were in if they blew up, not destroy that huge-ass fleet near Earth, the planet Earth itself and nearly every other inhabited planet in the galaxy? Second: what the fuck did happen to everybody else in the game? If DLC or a pretty major patch fixes these two things then I will retract my objection the ending.

boag:
I hope a lot of us consumers learn not to trust bioware again, this whole experience has been souring.

And if the big lesson from the ending is "you dont always get what you want", then I hope people take notice of this lesson and apply it to all related things.

Bioware isnt selling enough games, "well tough you dont always get what you want

Internet Reviewers arent getting enough hits on their pages or videos "well tough you dont get what you want"

I hope people that read this get the not so subtle hints.

Indeed.

I'm keeping the games I already have, of course, but as far as any future BioWare products are concerned I'm "officially" doing my very first boycott. I won't be surprised if I lose out on an awesome experience when I choose not to play Dragon Age 3, but that's just how thing will have to be.

Zagzag:

Here is why I have a problem with what you are saying; I was personally disappointed with the ending of ME3, although this is the first time I have expressed that on the internet, so I am not one of these so called whiny fans. (I would like to believe in the Indoctrination Theory, but I'm not sure Bioware can be that subtle.) The vast majority of people who disliked the ending don't actually believe that they control it, and should get to decide what happens, as various people on this site who shall remain nameless keep telling us. We are simply disappointed and are telling the creation of the content that we personally didn't like it. This is an entirely acceptable thing to do in any form of creative medium. The backlash against the ending has been mind blowing, but perhaps this should tell Bioware something.

again, there is nothing wrong with being vocal about not liking something. I never claimed you aren't allowed to be upset about the game or you aren't allowed to not like the ending. Telling Bioware you aren't satisfied with the ending to their trilogy is a perfectly normal reaction to something.

We are not expressing our entitlement to have Bioware do what we want with the series, we are simply telling them that we didn't enjoy it. If they subsequently choose to alter the ending in some way, then they are doing that to fix what we didn't like. This, again, is entirely reasonable.

yes this is entirely reasonable, you can be happy they choose to fix the ending. You can choose to not buy any more Bioware games. This is all fine I have absolutely no issue with people being dissatisfied/upset with a product. But you also can't be upset if Bioware chooses to leave the ending as is.

Because this is where the problem lies, I have no problem with people being upset with ME3's ending. But in no way shape or form is Bioware obligated to change anything. They spent the millions of dollars and years of developement time to create the Mass Effect Trilogy, [i] they [i] own it.

You are free to inform Bioware that you aren't happy with their ending, if they change it because they want to, then congratulations you get the new ending you were hoping for. However something tells me if Bioware were to leave the ending as is the fans wouldn't just shrug their shoulders and say "well at least we told them we weren't happy"

again, you can be unhappy with the series, you can be happy at the thought of getting a new ending. But you can not be upset if Bioware decides to not alter their art because of fan outrage.

EDIT: Maybe I'm just far more forgiving because I always thought the journey (and not the end result) was the most satisfying part of the games. It's why I could play Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2 multiple times even though I know I wouldn't get any answers to important questions (like the genophage)

Gigatoast:

DrVornoff:
General theme of this thread: Nobody understands me!!

It's kind of sad how anyone who has an opinion on the ME3 ending that isn't, "Fuck Bioware!" is accused of "not getting it." Though when it comes to explaining what exactly "it" is, none of the whiners have come up with a single lucid point that would refute any of the opinions they so staunchly object to, if they even try at all.

Well you certainly haven't been looking very hard for explainations, there's one at the top of this page and probably about a hundred others on this site alone.

Also, the majority of the "retake" crowd don't hate Bioware or even the game itself, just the ending. So yes, I'm pretty confidant this can be considered you "not getting it".

And it is very easy for those of us who believe in

to turn around and say that those who think the ending needs to be "retaken" from the people who made it are the ones who "don't get it."

image
TOUCHE!

(... the circle goes on and on!)

Gigatoast:
There's VOLUMES written about the ending, short ones, long ones, simple ones, exaustive ones, humorous ones, over-zealous ones, and they don't all say the exact same thing. If you are capable of understanding then there's someone out there that you can understand and identify with. If you just don't feel like understanding then you shouldn't try to wheigh in on something that's none of your business.

There are reasonable people who have explained their feelings well enough. The histrionic crybabies? Not so much.

So your problem is with people talking about it at all? This is just like the brony wars, you can ignore them, if you argue with them about it then you're just keeping the discussion from moving to something else. You're just tired of people being passionate about something? Well tough s**t, you can't just say "I'm not interested in what you're talking about so stop talking about it." you're the one who got yourself involved.

Maybe I'm tired of a bunch of spoiled children running unchecked because hey! You didn't like the ending either! Maybe I'm tired of seeing the people who tell them to calm down and act civil being dismissed as "not getting it."

Also, the "retake" crowd hasn't deminished in size, they've actually grown since people have started finishing the game for themselves.

Gold star for them.

If that something is just more deflective PR bulls**t you can bet your ass this rage is going to continue.

In which case I will probably stop associating with gamers because I would like to talk about things other than Mass Effect and some hipster's vague anti-corporate ethos or whatever.

GamesB2:
Why should I say 'It's a shame, nothing to do now but move on', someone doesn't have a decent argument unless they accept that what they're arguing for will never change anything, they just accept inevitability?

People don't sit there and spend a good amount of their time writing out a constructed argument that takes everything into consideration, points out flaws, discusses what could've been done better/what was done worst, just to say 'Oh but it doesn't matter, such is life'.

That's completely backwards logic.

Oh, here we fucking go again. It's not about giving up and taking crap. It's about realizing that if your happiness is dependent on a video game, it's time to reevaluate your life. Express yourself, go ahead. Don't want to buy from BioWare anymore? Don't. That's all your business, not mine. But show some basic restraint for god's sake. Try to express yourself with a modicum of dignity.

I wasn't terribly keen on Dragon Age 2's ending. Do you know what I did? I got up, went outside, and felt better later. I still had fun with the game and that was all that really mattered after all.

If you want some kind of addendum to ME3's ending granting more closure, go ahead and ask for it. Like an adult. And if you don't get it, move on. Stop buying Bioware titles if it's that important to you. Just don't come back to remind the entire internet about it every 10 minutes.

DrVornoff:

I don't recall him excusing anything.

And here's the way I see it: if the ME3 ending is the worst thing to happen to you this month, you're doing loads better than me.

I believe he did with the "art" angle, but eh. I wish this was the worst thing to happen to me this month. However, this isn't a private personal issue. This is something I can support openly because it comes off as being blindsided by a tank. While the game was not perfect, we enjoyed the hell out of it still until the end, which we believe couldn't come out of the same people who made the rest of the game.

The fact that it's getting in the way of having a conversation about anything else is starting to grate a bit. I feel the same way whenever any topic erupts that monopolizes the discourse for more than a couple of days.

Yeah, but unless the Space Pope lands from outer space, something of similar magnitude happens, or Bioware stops being silent about this and addresses the issue in a more concrete manner, this isn't going anyway for the time being. It sucks but that's what it is. Also doesn't help when people like MovieBob and Colin Moriarty from IGN decide to pour gasoline on a fire.

I'm of the opinion that if you're going to open your mouth, you must be prepared to back up what you're saying. That's why I'm replying to you now. I put my opinion out there, and I am now being called on to explain myself. In other words, if some person can't be fucked to back up their words, I can't be fucked to give them anything more than a scoff.

Like I said, I agree on this pretty much.

Limecake:
You are free to inform Bioware that you aren't happy with their ending, if they change it because they want to, then congratulations you get the new ending you were hoping for. However something tells me if Bioware were to leave the ending as is the fans wouldn't just shrug their shoulders and say "well at least we told them we weren't happy"

again, you can be unhappy with the series, you can be happy at the thought of getting a new ending. But you can not be upset if Bioware decides to not alter their art because of fan outrage.

If and when Bioware specifically say that they are not going to change the ending in any way, or add anything to it, then I will leave it alone, and be happy with what I have got. I do suspect that I am in the minority on this one though.
I really hope that the indoctrination theory turns out to be true though, although it probably won't, knowing Bioware. If it does, then the huge amount of backlash would make this one of the greates achievements in gaming history.

TsunamiWombat:

If the internet had existed back in the 60s, the ending to 2001 wouldn't have lasted more than a month. Back then, loads of people were confused, annoyed, or even downright angry with the way the film ended. But because making films back then required very little input from the audience, there was nothing they could do to alter it. If the internet had been around, you can damn well bet that millions of sci-fi fans would have used it to petition Kubrick to make a less crappy, pretentious ending, and to end the film in a real way. And one of the greatest legacies of one of the most important works of science-fiction would have been chucked out in the rubbish, simply to serve the needs of an irate fanbase.

Slightly different, that film was based on a book, which also ended in a stupid and pretentious way if i'm not mistaken.

The film and the book were written at the same time. The book was actually published after the film came out. And the book was slightly less pretentious in that it actually explained what happened at the end, even if that explanation pretty much turned out to be "LOL trippy aliens".

The vast majority of people who saw the film when it came out hadn't read the book, by virtue of the fact that it hadn't been released yet. Even today, far far more people have seen the film and read the book.

And the point still stands. If petitions like this are going to become the norm, then you can wave goodbye to any chance of developers wanting to challenge their audiences expectations. Because as soon as the audience comes across something they can't instantly understand, they're going to start whining about how it's too weird, and they want something that doesn't screw with their mind as much. As a big fan of mind-screws, I think it would be a tremendous shame if fiction became weighed down by the expectations of fans who are, truth be told, often times too thick to work out when something is presented in any form other than crystal clear exposition.

I love Neon Genesis, and I love the way it ends on a total mind bender of religious symbolism. I love Donnie Darko, and the way in which it is never clear if the story is really about time travel, or just the warped delusions of a mentally disturbed kid. Or similarly, Primer, and the way that once you've seen the ending, you have to rethink and rebuild the entirety of the film's story in your head in order for it to make sense. Or with the clasic game Second Sight, where the game's story drastically plays with your assumptions about the chronology of the game's events.

It's not just me, there are millions of readers, viewers and gamers out there who enjoy abstract, mind-screwy elements blended in with our fiction. And petitions like this are dangerous, because they risk bringing stories like this down to the level of the lowest, loudest denominator. People are thick. I know it sounds elitist, but it's true. The majority of the fiction-enjoying public isn't smart enough to enjoy anything more complicated than a badly written romance or lame comedy. Hence the disturbing popularity of Twilight, Transformers, and any number of british Soap-Operas. I would rather not give that same demographic the power to change fiction that I enjoy, simply because it didn't live up to their expectations.

DrVornoff:
Oh, here we fucking go again. It's not about giving up and taking crap. It's about realizing that if your happiness is dependent on a video game, it's time to reevaluate your life. Express yourself, go ahead. Don't want to buy from BioWare anymore? Don't. That's all your business, not mine. But show some basic restraint for god's sake. Try to express yourself with a modicum of dignity.

I wasn't terribly keen on Dragon Age 2's ending. Do you know what I did? I got up, went outside, and felt better later. I still had fun with the game and that was all that really mattered after all.

If you want some kind of addendum to ME3's ending granting more closure, go ahead and ask for it. Like an adult. And if you don't get it, move on. Stop buying Bioware titles if it's that important to you. Just don't come back to remind the entire internet about it every 10 minutes.

I like the way you miss addressing my points once again, make ridiculous assumptions, take it to an absurd level, make derogative comments towards your own assumptions, move off topic, then fail to address the second half of my post.

Please, for the good of everyone with a decent argument, remove yourself from the internet.

Don't bother replying, I'd rather not read your painfully construed arguments anymore.

Ticonderoga117:
I believe he did with the "art" angle, but eh.

It came across more to me as saying, "Sometimes things just screw up." The ending was a mistake, but that doesn't justify some of the absurdity we've witnessed in the aftermath.

While the game was not perfect, we enjoyed the hell out of it still until the end, which we believe couldn't come out of the same people who made the rest of the game.

Does the ending change the good times you had? My perspective on it is that if you enjoyed everything up until the last 10 minutes, you still came out of the equation looking pretty good.

GamesB2:
Please, for the good of everyone with a decent argument, remove yourself from the internet.

Thank you for proving me right. A pleasure doing business with you.

Sandytimeman:

SonOfVoorhees:

Sandytimeman:
Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2.

Freedom has a price. It was both disappointing and awesome. Would have hated a "Wow we beat the reapers and everyone is happy" ending. I guess they didn't want a generic Paragon/Renegade ending. But seems everyone did. I sold my copy and have zero interest in any new ending.

But you didn't get freedom, you actually just fucked the galaxy over and killed everyone.

Obviously not everyone, if there still can be an old man telling his kid about Shepard presumably long after the end of the game.

And for everyone who likes to think Mass Effect was upbeat, I'm surprised so many of them completely fail to maintain that attitude in the post-Relay era. "It's all about fighting the odds and overcoming! Oh, but the destruction of the Relays kills everyone, ever, and there's no way around it."

Taunta:
You just want one that "doesn't fucking suck", presenting one as an objective term.

First of all, whether or not it "fucking sucks" is your opinion. So when you say you just want a story that doesn't suck, you mean that you want one that is tailored to your interests. A story made to appeal to you. And that's not how writing works. You may not like it, but the writers aren't writing to please you.

And yes, there are multiple writers on a team. I'm aware of how these things work. I am referring to them as a conglomerate "artist", assuming that they communicate with each other and work on the same wavelength.

And sure, you'd throw the book back at the artist and tell them to do it again, but you'd still be wrong for doing it. What you fail to grasp is that there is a very large difference between wishing they would change it, and demanding. Critics who give constructive criticism are doing it because it is their job to do so, not because they have some sense of entitlement as fans. Yes, Bioware still has the option of listening to you, but that still doesn't make you look any better for demanding it. Why does only one party require choice?

There is a difference between an ending tailor made for everyone, and one that is simply consistent with the rest of the game and lore. My personal story would have involved killing Miranda the first time she opened her smug mouth and carrying around her skull as an example to the rest. But that's not reasonable to expect, and I believe its also not reasonable for a glowing space fetus to fall from the sky and present us with the Endingtron 3000 he borrowed from Deus Ex.

And they kinda are writing to please me and all the other people buying the game. They didn't do this for their own fun. And how are they going to know their work sucks if the only people allowed to speak are paid off by Daddy EA? Demanding is the only tool we have. It's insulting that you want to take it away.

trollpwner:
I mean, can you imagine if someone complained like this about the ending of another game?

It's been said before, but: wasn't that exactly what happened with Fallout 3? :)

This is where the comparisons and allegories fail: video games are much more malleable and subject to gradual change than any other medium. Just because BioWare is within its rights to rest on its collective laurels and do nothing in response to criticism doesn't mean that's the best course of action - if they're capable of doing something, anything, to make the ending less of a Gainax situation, why shouldn't they? Fans aren't demanding to write a new ending themselves, they're asking for BioWare to reconsider the finished product.

My thoughts as a non Mass Effect player who's been following the controversy, because I'm sexy and wonderful and you all care about my opinions:

1) The ending was a hastily-written piece of crap.
2) That isn't the first time fiction has had an ending that's a hastily-written piece of crap. I can understand the anger but much of the reaction is a bit over the top.
3) Whatever Bioware does, it will just make at least half the angry people even angrier, even if it appeases some of the remainder. Were I them, I'd just leave the ending as is and chalk it up to a learning experience.
4) MovieBob is a screaming fanboy every bit like the worst of the screaming "CHANGE THE ENDING" fanboys, just in the other direction. I used to watch his stuff somewhat regularly and with a grain of salt, but this just made me realize that the salt was getting bigger and bigger with each video he released, and it's ultimately not worth wasting my time watching.

Yahtzee Croshaw:
I've been given to understand that Bioware are talking about changing the ending under the massive pressure from the idiot fanbase, and I hope like hell they're just talking about doing something like that, an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.

Because it would set a horrible precedent if they're serious about actually changing the ending in line with some kind of democratically agreed upon alternative, rather than merely expanding or adding to it.

It may interest you to know, if you didn't already, that the film Little Shop of Horrors originally had Seymour and Audrey I getting killed. Yes, in the original cut, the plant Audrey II wins and takes over the world. It's still that way in the off-Broadway musical on which the film is based.

Test audiences, however, tore the filmmakers a new one over the ending. So they went back and changed it to the ending you're more familiar with.

Point being: Radically changing an ending at audience insistence is not unheard of.

Rocktel:
I agree with Yahtzee's point about the bigger picture, I just don't want to buy anything from BioWare again.

He's jumping to conclusions. He didn't take into account relevant data about Mass Effect 3 development that resulted in that ending to be able to see the correct big picture.

ewhac:
Point being: Radically changing an ending at audience insistence is not unheard of.

And if Mass Effect 3 had a test audience, it sure as hell wouldn't be release with that ending.

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