The Big Picture: Mutants and Masses

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bahumat42:

Well if thats the message you wanted them to get your going to be disappointed. What people should of done was paid attention and seen what was going on, people knew these things were coming and smart people boycotted it (ala totalbiscuit) i would include myself in that but honestly i just hate how those games play and refused to play them again. The reason why thats not the message the industry will get is becaus theres no unison in your camp

some people want a happy ending
some people want free shit to clear things up
other people are demanding their money back

with the massive spread of opinions no real singular message can be got accross other than "unhappy people are getting angry".

What people should have done (and as a fact probably wont ever do) was not buy the actual thing, thats our right, thats proving what is good and isn't.

Short of the game not working once that money is paid their responsibilities to you have ended.

I disagree, your correct in terms of things like the Day #1 DLC, and how they were dumbing down the game into a shooter. As far as the quality of the ending, them not keeping their promises, and the exact fashion in which it was monetized? No, I don't think people could have seen that coming which is why there is this kind of backlash. I follow this kind of thing fairly intently, and to be honest I didn't know exactly how that war asset thing was going to work or how they were going to get you to pay for the ending. What's more, having listened to the developers I was expecting a much differant ending that actually accomplished what they set out. I was fulyl prepard not to worship the ending, but I did not expect an ending that was going be that craptastic and piss this many people off. While I do not think the ending is as bad as many other people do, it is pretty terrible.

I DID know they were planning on turning "Mass Effect" into a franchise, but I did not feel that this nessicarly meant having to sell out the ending here. There is no reason why they had to do an ending like this to optimized franchise potential, in order to have a franchise. Mass Effect could have a complete storyline and happy/appropriate conclusion to the trilogy, and still see other games produced in the same universe.

The voices are united and quite clear on EA/Bioware going too far, and that this will not be tolerated. The division over the ending isn't quite that extreme. In general the free stuff/happy ending crowd overlap, the basic demand being that EA/Bioware expand/fix the game and provide the DLC for free as opposed to making people pay more for them to fix the ending due to their screw up. Demanding a refund is also reasonable as an alternative to this, and really I think half the problem with the game industry right now is that you can't return software you wind up being unhappy with like other products.

You ARE correct that the response could be better, but this is the first time we've seen this kind of a backlash, and the game industry to run full tilt into a wall. It's not like fans are coordinated and have any kind of consumer advocacy. Truthfully though, if the industry manages to keep slotting people off with it's greed, you probably will see the fans gradually become more organized in this kind of thing. You can't expect a lot from the first rally of it's kind on this scale. Simply the fact that it happened is in of itself a powerful message.

Taunta:

Blatherscythe:
Even in his own Game-Overthinker show he stated he has not played the games, nor does he know what the endings are. THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM BOB! You lack context and investment and can easily stand on your damn soapbox and act as a superior spewing pretentious dribble.

So Bob, shut up, play the games, see the endings and then voice your opinion, otherwise your input is worthless on the matter.

You're missing the point. Whether or not he would like the ending doesn't matter. It's not about liking the ending, it's about crossing that boundary between creator and audience and feeling like you DESERVE a new ending.

That's what the entire segment about TMNT is about. He knows he's probably not gonna like the new treatment of it, but is he going to fly into a rage because this is not the movie that he is entitled to? No. The artist isn't here to please you.

There is a line between being displeased with the ending and feeling like you deserve something else.

The reason people hate ME3's ending is due to the ABC nature of the choice and the fact that the ending doesn't take any of your choices into consideration when the whole damn series makes a big deal about player choice.

In the previous game the ending was entirely in your control, how the suicide mission turned out depended on how much time you invested in the game. I don't mind Fallout 3's original ending because the purifier going critical was out of my control and I had to make a quick choice, I wasen't told to go collect the united forces of the factions to take back the purifier, the event was already made to play out. However bittersweet it was the epilouge wasen't vague artsy bullshit, it told me how my actions effected the wasteland and whether I was a prick or not. ME3 gives a vague, unsatisfiying epilouge that just served to confuse the hell out of people.

But one of the biggest reasons people dislike the ending is the stupidity behind it. The catalyst itself is an asspull. It uses insane troll logic to justify the horrors it subjects organic life to. After you've made your choice the mass relays blow up, which, as we saw in the Arrival DLC, destroys a solar system. Even if it didn't destroy the known universe all the fleets are stranded on Earth, so I guess they just starve to death.

ME3 gives no closure, an arbitrary ABC choice and takes a butcher knife to accepted canon.

Just take a look at this video to see why the ending sucks and should be changed.

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

Bob is talking out of his ass about a situation he knows nothing about.

Fwee:

stickmangrit:

are you in any way familliar with the indoctrination theory? i won't bore you with the details, but it's got quite a bit of evidence behind it and pretty much posits that BioWare and EA's plan was to
SELL US THE F^&*ING ENDING AS DLC.

and if this is true, what kind of precedent does that set? and where does that put folks like Bob who are valiantly flocking to defend the developers and publishers in theire experiment to see how incomplete a game they can sell for $60 before the fans burn down the headquarters?

I saw the entire lineup of releases this winter as one giant DLC content ransom. I saw titles that pretty much doubled it's original price with the amount of withheld features. And I responded the only way I knew would be effective:
I didn't buy any games. I didn't buy any DLC. If companies want to try to sell me half a game at full price then good luck to them. But they never forced me to give them money. And they never had a legal contract with a satisfaction guarantee. At least Amazon tried to offer money back on ME3 so upset fans could get most of their money back.
Sometimes something you love gets turned into shit, and it's usually done so by upper management trying to get more money. Don't buy any DLC. Don't buy new games. Rent, trade, borrow, steal, or pirate. Until the companies sell you what you want for a reasonable price they'll only laugh while they screw you.

well that's kindof the essential good that the whole TBME movement's done. if nothing else the desperate spinning and "wait and see what's in store" bullshit coming from BioWare simply adds creedence to the indoctrination DLC scenario, except now they're scared. they know if they prove this theory right by coming out with $10-20 DLC following the main thrust of the theory, establishing beyond doubt that they shipped an unfinished product rather than delay, and are now trying to sell us the rest of it, then what we're seeing now from the fandom is nothing compared to the shitstorm that will follow. we might actually get that DLC free out of BioWare wanting to remain a legitimate company.

Blatherscythe:

Taunta:

Blatherscythe:
Even in his own Game-Overthinker show he stated he has not played the games, nor does he know what the endings are. THAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM BOB! You lack context and investment and can easily stand on your damn soapbox and act as a superior spewing pretentious dribble.

So Bob, shut up, play the games, see the endings and then voice your opinion, otherwise your input is worthless on the matter.

You're missing the point. Whether or not he would like the ending doesn't matter. It's not about liking the ending, it's about crossing that boundary between creator and audience and feeling like you DESERVE a new ending.

That's what the entire segment about TMNT is about. He knows he's probably not gonna like the new treatment of it, but is he going to fly into a rage because this is not the movie that he is entitled to? No. The artist isn't here to please you.

There is a line between being displeased with the ending and feeling like you deserve something else.

The reason people hate ME3's ending is due to the ABC nature of the choice and the fact that the ending doesn't take any of your choices into consideration when the whole damn series makes a big deal about player choice.

In the previous game the ending was entirely in your control, how the suicide mission turned out depended on how much time you invested in the game. I don't mind Fallout 3's original ending because the purifier going critical was out of my control and I had to make a quick choice, I wasen't told to go collect the united forces of the factions to take back the purifier, the event was already made to play out. However bittersweet it was the epilouge wasen't vague artsy bullshit, it told me how my actions effected the wasteland and whether I was a prick or not. ME3 gives a vague, unsatisfiying epilouge that just served to confuse the hell out of people.

But one of the biggest reasons people dislike the ending is the stupidity behind it. The catalyst itself is an asspull. It uses insane troll logic to justify the horrors it subjects organic life to. After you've made your choice the mass relays blow up, which, as we saw in the Arrival DLC, destroys a solar system. Even if it didn't destroy the known universe all the fleets are stranded on Earth, so I guess they just starve to death.

ME3 gives no closure, an arbitrary ABC choice and takes a butcher knife to accepted canon.

Just take a look at this video to see why the ending sucks and should be changed.

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

Bob is talking out of his ass about a situation he knows nothing about.

Sigh. You should read my first post again. I know why people hate the ending. Everyone knows why people hate the ending. The issue is still not whether or not you should hate the ending.

You don't need knowledge of the ME3 canon to have an opinion on the idea that people think they deserve an ending that they like. If anything, his opinion is more valid because he's not emotionally invested in the franchise and he has an objective view of it.

REALLY BOB, REALLY? *Cough* Going Green Part 2 *cough*

lacktheknack:

Frank_Sinatra_:
Bad move Bob, very, very, very, very bad move.

It's apparent that you really haven't researched into the whole Mass Effect 3 debacle, so be prepared to hear that the Mass Effect series is a special case, BioWare didn't deliver on ANY of their promises, and they pretty much slapped their own IP in the face in the last 5 minutes of their game.

Remember: BioWare has stated that their fans are equal creators in the story along with their actual writing staff.

I've researched it as much as I care to (which is more than normal), and this is what I've come up with:

All the reasoned debate about the ME3 ending:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

I'm sure there's things about "special case", half baked "NO PROMISES DELIVERED" anger, and hyperbole to go all around as well as "THEY KILLED THE IP" (it was supposed to end here, you know), but it was all drowned in the screaming.

So yes, excuse me if I'm flippant about the whole thing and don't take you guys seriously.

May I direct your attention towards [link="http://jmstevenson.wordpress.com/2012/03/22/all-that-matters-is-the-ending-part-2-mass-effect-3/"]this?</link?

I'm not trying to change your opinion, I'm not trying to argue with you. I just like to show that there are legitimate reasons people are unhappy and it's more than just people going "AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA".

As a lifelong turtles fan (some of my earliest memories are Turtles related), I can still readily acknowledge that this franchise has made some serious missteps (The Next Mutation, The Christmas Special, TMNT III, et al) and thus I cannot find myself getting angry at this idea. For all we know, this is where Platinum Dunes turns around and starts making GOOD movies about our childhood icons.

The only thing that seriously troubles me is that Michael Bay proclaimed the new Turtles to be "tough, edgy, funny and completely lovable" which I'm willing to bet is exactly what he told producers about Skids and Mudflap.

If nothing else, I'm pleased that Moviebob cleansed all the bile from his system over twitter, I kind of dreaded clicking on this video because I expected to see five minutes of Bob attacking a straw man. I'm pleased that didn't happen.

I don't feel like my point of view is being well represented in the conversation. For starters,

I like BioWare, I would even go so far as to say I LOVE BioWare. If I had one wish it would be for a place on the BioWare writing staff. Well, that or to be married to Felicia Day... but I digress. The point is I love their work, hell, that's WHY I'd like to see the ending changed. I know they can do better. 95% of Mass Effect 3 PROVES they can do better. They have some of the best story writers in the industry under one roof and a fleshed out well realized universe for them to work with. If they want to retcon the ending I have no doubt that the potential exists for them to make one for the ages.

That brings me to the issue of entitlement. BioWare doesn't HAVE to change the ending. More power to them if they do but they don't really owe me a satisfying ending. It's the same way I feel that they don't OWE me the From the Ashes content. The bare bones ME3 that I had on my first playthrough was a complete experience and for what its worth I got my money's worth, shit ending and all.

For some perspective, lets also remember the Green Lantern protest group Hal's Emerald Action Team which was WAY more ridiculous than Retake Mass Effect (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/3536-Going-Green-Part-II for a refresher) ultimately managed to get what they wanted and the result actually ended up making the Green Lantern mythos slightly less ridiculous.

I can't be alone in thinking like this, can I? If I understand correctly BioWare's working on a new ending and who knows what will come of that? Maybe it'll be a slimy burst of fan service, maybe it'll be one for the ages or maybe it'll just be the same thing with a yellow explosion.

Lots of really badly prosecuted arguments there, Bob. "...if these are the worst disappointments in your life..." Oh, come on. They may not be the worst, but they still suck - and unlike the others, I have to *pay* for this one. This has less to do with fan ownership and more to do with dishonesty.

Very few people claimed that Lucas had no 'right' to do what he did, or that he should remake the prequels in the fans' own image.
But then Lucas didn't promise that he would not make a three-choice, nub-ending where your previous decisions have no impact, and then do *exactly* that. This is not 'fan backlash'. This is consumer outrage. We were promised features, many of us paid money because of that promise, and it was not there.

Artistic choice is fine, false advertising and reaping the financial benefits thereof are not OK.
The fact that the ME3 endings also defied all logic and betrayed the themes of the series to date is offensive, but in the end, just disappointing. Lying about inclusion of features is not just disappointing, it's possibly illegal. Bioware needed to keep their mouths shut if they were uncertain about delivering on their promises.

Patronized by somebody who knows nothing about what's going on and is more then happy to feed into the gamer stereotype about being entitled and bratty. God forbid me as a consumer has the right to hold a company to some sort of standard.

370999:
So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.

Is anyone really that surprised? This IS Movie Bob we are talking about here.

I don't think I OWN ME3, I think that the last five minutes of the game ruined the entire thing. I dont want a happy ending, all I want is somebody to explain what the fuck went on. Rule number one of literary writing is you dont fucking introduce a godlike character in the last five minutes! That isnt a twist, that is shitty writing! How can Bioware go from stellar writing to shit in five minutes? And they wont even get a definite answer. that is why there is so much stuff going on. They spent weeks offering noncommittal replies which gave everyone more time to organize and get involved. If they had said that that is the ending and left it at that most of the outcry would go away. Make a decision and stick to it.

This is one of the few times I disagree with Bob. Also the FTC complaint was because Bioware ADVERTISED many separate and distinct endings and we only got 3 different color explosions.

1. Bitching and whining about bitching and whining accomplishes nothing except cause more bitching and whining. Want to stop the cycle? Ignore it.

2. The FTC complaint was not about the quality of the ending, and more to do with statements made not even a month prior to ME3's release that the ending would be extremely varied and not be a A, B, or C ending (which it was), and that decisions made during the series would have a profound impact on the ending (which it doesn't). Is it enough to actually warrant filing a complaint? Sure. Filing a complaint means nothing. I'm sure the FTC gets more frivolous complaints then this. Is it actually false advertising? Well, that's for the FTC to decide.

3. I am for an ending change (or even clarification on the current one). I haven't really raged about it, but I fully support anyone that does. However, I fully support BioWare's decision on whatever they decide to do. Sorry, but this isn't the work of some guy in garage that puts it out on the net as freeware. While video games can be art, the moment it is put for sale, it is also a product. Since it's art, BioWare has all the right in the world to make the ending however they want. However, since it's a product, the consumer has all the right in the world to bitch about it and ask for it to change. Since it is art, BioWare can be free to completely ignore the consumer, say it is what it is, deal. The consumer then has all the right in the world to take their business elsewhere.

Long story short, in the end, BioWare is a business. This situation will resolve itself, one way or another.

4. Fan bitching does accomplish things. How many movies have been made with alternate endings in the DVD release because fans disliked the ending? I mean, they completely re-edited Highlander 2 to remove any references to (stupid) aliens because of fan bitching. Hell, I shouldn't have to even point out Hal Jordan. Yes, it was the writer's decision to do it, but I'm sure the hell he had the fan's input in mind when he decided to bring him back.

5. What if the ending was rushed? I'm sure Bob can rattle of a shortlist of movies/comics/books ect. that were torpedoed not by bad writing decisions, but because their corporate overlords (in this case, EA) demanded a finished product, and the artists couldn't truly get give the attention they wanted to? Oh sure, they'll swear up and down that's the way it was supposed to be when it happens, but 5, 10, 20 years down the road (when danger of being sued has tapered off to acceptable levels), they come out and say, "Yeah, we were told to finish it or else, so that's the ending that got put in."

Now, there's no proof that this is what happened to Mass Effect 3 (just EA's douchebaggery level making it a distinct possibility), but if it is, the consumer backlash might provide something that I'm sure movie writers would love. The opportunity to actually get the damn ending they wanted made.

If -that's- the case, I think it's absolutely fine that BioWare changes the ending.

Art is nothing without the viewer/player/beholder. After all, that's why it's said that art is in the eye of the beholder. If you simply look at a painting or a drawing or a film, it is nothing but moving images and colors and sounds. It is the viewer who gives meaning to those scenes, and the words, and who determines the emotions portrayed.

Simply put, art is nothing without the person seeing it.

Brilliantly written, Bob. I wish you had tackled the ME thing with all your mighty - I for one think it'd be a worthy use of you funny Scout voice powerful JFK-like angry accent. Those people don't realize that their pitiful flailing will be used against them by producers the next time a dev proposes anything that isn't perfectly by the book.

As for TMNT, I don't understand how your disappointment at Bay should go any further than 'shit, Bay is involved with this'. That should be your cue to tune out and assume the worst. Plus, the version of TMNT that got famous is a silly dumbing down of the original gritty anyway.

The Gentleman:
I have said it before and I will say it again: What was so bad about the ME3 ending?

Lack of closure and elements that conflict with those already established in the rest of the game and series overall. They were so many parts of the ending that could be picked apart by saying "Wait, did I disprove that before?" and then having such a vague epilogue that doesn't really give you reasons for why a lot of the stuff you're seeing is happening.

Disregarding the fact there is no option to refuse, it's really weird that nobody pulled the writer of it over it to say "The ending doesn't fit with the rest of the game". Then again, hearing the rumors about the ending generated by one of the writers, it sounds a lot like Casey Hudson didn't talk about the planned ending much.

So wait...does this mean we shouldn't send Michael Bay a cupcake either? What about a muffin basket? I think its too early to really hate the TMNT movie yet and honestly I didn't know what Krang's race were known as until this episode of Big Picture. It would be cool if the Ooze was from space and Krang was the main bad guy in the movie but I think it would be better if Marvel bought the TMNT rights and we had a Daredevil cameo in the next TMNT movie or vice-versa.

As for Mass Effect 3, are people really still bitching about the ending 3 weeks later? Silent Hill Downpour, Ninja Gaiden 3 and, a slew of other games have come out since. I haven't been given any flak for buying Kid Icarus on day one for God's sake! I liked the demo for Mass Effect 3, I liked Mass Effect 2 and, I know I'll like the full version of Mass Effect 3. Is it really worth bitching about the last 5 minutes of the game when the other dozens of hours are that great? There wasn't this much hate and bile for Final Fantasy XIII even though it was the polar opposite (hours upon hours of tedious garbage followed by Grand Pulse)

Clive Howlitzer:

370999:
So once again Bob doesn't understand the difference between games and movies. And misrepresents the retake ME movement. Standard stuff from him them.

Is anyone really that surprised? This IS Movie Bob we are talking about here.

Doesn't understand the difference between games and movies, how about doesn't understand games to start with?

I like Bob when he simply gives insight about films or other pop culture but when he tries his holier than thou pattern schtick,see the mindnumbingly awful episode of the big picture where he discusses PC gaming,a topic he clearly has no understanding in, then he comes of as a complete fool

We have a right as consumers to bitch and moan about a shit or,even better,a unfinished product.
You said it yourself,you haven't played the games and havent witnessed THAT ending
You dropped the ball here Bob.plain and simple.

And because this blog easily covers all of the topics i have to say on the subject and i feel being an annoying cunt
Ill just leave this here
http://doycetesterman.com/index.php/2012/03/mass-effect-tolkein-and-your-bullshit-artistic-process/

neoontime:
REALLY BOB, REALLY? *Cough* Going Green Part 2 *cough*

Oh yeah, I had a Twitter debate/argument with Grey Carter (one of the critical miss guys) and pretty much ending with HEAT because, if nothing else, that's the closest thing that Bob has covered to Retake Mass Effect. And I don't remember him saying it was a bad thing. HEAT is to comics as Retake Mass Effect is to games. It's hard to support one without supporting the other as they practically stand for the same things.

Stalydan:

The Gentleman:
I have said it before and I will say it again: What was so bad about the ME3 ending?

Lack of closure and elements that conflict with those already established in the rest of the game and series overall. They were so many parts of the ending that could be picked apart by saying "Wait, did I disprove that before?" and then having such a vague epilogue that doesn't really give you reasons for why a lot of the stuff you're seeing is happening.

But that alone isn't really deserving of the insane amount of rage generated by this. Sure, it's got a broad and somewhat undefined ending, but, as it was clear well before the game was shipped, there are more Mass Effect games coming. Covering every [surviving] companion's ending would be much more clunky and expository in a way that doesn't add to the narrative or story whatsoever.

Did you ever watch the end of Children of Man? The ending is about as vague and as non-conclusive you can get for a movie with a rich lore and narrative behind it, but it worked because it relied on the audience to fill in the details (was he dead? What was the ship? What happened to the rest of the world, etc.).

Stalydan:
Disregarding the fact there is no option to refuse, it's really weird that nobody pulled the writer of it over it to say "The ending doesn't fit with the rest of the game". Then again, hearing the rumors about the ending generated by one of the writers, it sounds a lot like Casey Hudson didn't talk about the planned ending much.

Shepard's end is documented and there is no way that she is going to refuse and completely walk away from three options, each of which would end the cycle of the reapers. It may not be the ending you wanted, but it was fairly clear throughout the game, in my opinion, that the Crucible was going to be that kind of McGuffan.

The question that results always when you complain about an ending is this: how would you have ended it? It's one thing to complain, but how do you end a narrative arch where the entire last game is a third act? You realize the moment that you hit that first dream that Shepard is not walking away from this one, so how do you end her life in a way that brings closure to her story (not necessarily the story of the galaxy as a whole)?

galaith100:
I find it so ironic that Bob's generation is complaining about change in TMNT when their version was watered down, butchered, and badly animated. And the TMNT movie was tied to the 2003 cartoon (the better one), not the other movies.

Pretty much this. And Mass Effect is a terrible series due to being produced by a Bioware ravaged by EA, rather than by one working with Sega or by an independent one. #LiberateBioware

I am speechless...kudos to Movie Bob, but holy cow, it's like he laid it all out and then everyone on the Escapist (and that facebook thingy) went ahead and decided to carry out a live demonstration of crazed, maniacal fans at work.

Wow.

(And Yes I'm a huge Mass Effect Fan. Couldn't care so much for the turtles though, being, well, over age 13 and all).

TornadoADV:
Patronized by somebody who knows nothing about what's going on and is more then happy to feed into the gamer stereotype about being entitled and bratty. God forbid me as a consumer has the right to hold a company to some sort of standard.

Well that is at least an attempt at a less silly arguement than than "Retake ME" try to present.

If it is a case of breach of contract then you go something semi reasonable, but it would require you to apply the same passion to all breaches of contract since the medium should be irrelevant.

Personally, I think Bob is in the right.

Yes, BioWare said that they were going to make a dramatic, climatic, and finishing conclusion to the franchise.

Yes, they said that the fans were equal participants in the story's conclusion.

No, the ending did not live up to the hype, at all.

YES, I think all of you are being whiny bitches about it.

Get over it, people. I thought the ending was horrible, yes, but am I going to say that Mass Effect was ruined? No. Up until the last... say... twenty or so minutes, the entire trilogy is a deep exploration of humanity's venture into the stars, diplomatic relationships with vastly different alien races each with culture and moral standings causing inevitable conflicts, the conglomeration of several different and varying backstories into one big, diverse, and blood-bound squad, and the fact of the matter that you have to decide what is 'Best for the Galaxy' without going 'Too Far'.

The ending sucked. Get over it. I still think Mass Effect is one of the greatest sci-fi trilogies ever. It juat had its Prequel Trilogy moment at the ending.

The Gentleman:
Shepard's end is documented and there is no way that she is going to refuse and completely walk away from three options, each of which would end the cycle of the reapers.

This was quite a narrow big picture wasn't it?

Simply equating the ME3 ending fuss (yes some people are taking this to ridiculous lengths) to a possible, slightly weird change to a nostalgic tv show (few fans actually knew about the comics).

First of all. There is no audience in gaming. There are only players. People actively engaged in the story of the game. When the game slaps you on the wrists and tells you 'NO! That's not how I want it to go' players will feel railroaded and connived because they are basically moving along a puppet set to a specific track.

This is why MANY point and click adventures failed. Why can't I use the tree branch instead of the stick for this puzzle? Because the game says so.

Same with the ME3 ending. Why are there only 3 options? Where are the 17 different endings (it should be illegal to change 3 seconds of footage and call it another ending)? What happened to the "Your ending will be unique and not just an A, B or C decision" that the dev team stated in numerous interviews?

Now about the turtles. That sort of rage is less reasonable. No one paid money for the movie yet, no one has spent the better part of 50 hours playing the previous two games and there really is nothing invested in the TMNT movie.

If they make them aliens. They make them aliens. I'll complain about it if the movie is good, but I'll leave entertained, if it sucks I'll have great fun watching many reviews mocking it and will have only lost 9$. If you end a 3 game series (150$ in total and 68 hours of gameplay) with an A, B, C decision which goes counter to what was promised by the dev team, leaves many plotholes and basically tells you to BUY DLC for the real ending.

People will be pissed.

Two completely different things, both in value, time invested, medium and type of rage. One is based on pure speculation, the other is based on the fact that when people spent 50$ on the last instalment of a trilogy they basically got told "Thanks for the money, give us some more if you want it to stop sucking".

Why did no one get pissed at Human Revolutions A,B,C ending? Because no one was promised or told differently and expectations were lower because of the possible reboot virus infection (which still did a number on HR, but you could ignore the pockmarks). ME fans were promised something. They did not get what was promised. Only to be exploited at a later date for more money.

I think the Turtles thing doesn't really measure up to that.

Well said Bob! Fanboys who have the nerve to state that IP being handled in way they don't approve of has ruined their life need to get a grip. If they can see crap like this a problem then they clearly have no real problems in life, people who do have real problems don't have time to waste on crap like this and as bill would say real issues don't get discussed because of this horse shit. just grow up, gaming will never be taken as srs business if gamers are being misrepresented by a vocal minority that throws an online tantrum every time they don't get their way. Having a bitch about a bad game is one thing, demanding developers to change products is on the lvl of a toddler throwing a tantrum in the supermarket.

Gigatoast:

Lunar Templar:

Gigatoast:
Can we just establish a new rule here? If you have no idea why fans are upset then you have no right to criticize them for being upset.

If anyone here understood that then this wouldn't even be an issue.

not true
i've been read into the major reasons this thing is happening, and i still think 'the retake' thing has gone to far.

You sure? The 'retakers' aren't really as absurdly over-zealous and disrespectful as you might think. We have legitimate reasons and most of us are very polite to Bioware and their staff.

yeah, to Bioware, cause they're the ones that can 'fix' the thing, every one else, 'if you don't agree, you are wrong'

but, more importantly. yeah, i know the reasons
they lied about
'choice' mattering (sorry i snicker at this, and think, 'well that life, get used to it' every time)
and number of endings,
and how the endings would play out
and 'closure' (which only really matters if they DON'T continue ME with Shepard).

still don't care, and still not on your side. why?
Child's Play. i can not forgive the use of a charity for something this fucking selfish, and i have even LESS forgiveness for the pieces of crap demanding money back from said charity cause it 'wont buy them a new ending'. its a shitty ending to a god damn video game, WORSE has happened in terms of us getting fucked over by devs and publishers, and this is what gets every body up in arms? an ending?!

what about the games we where promised, contributed to then had yanked away, or the ones we want being effectively held hostage by virtue of 'if this shit, no one asked for or really wanted doesn't sell well, we won't make the one you DO want', don't hear people getting pissed off for a full month over bullshit like that. no ... its an ENDING >.< ...

Klitch:

The Gentleman:
Shepard's end is documented and there is no way that she is going to refuse and completely walk away from three options, each of which would end the cycle of the reapers.

I love it when Bob speaks my mind a million times more eloquently than I ever could do.

I'm more inclined to think Bio ware is in the wrong on this one even if it is because they are acting as childish as the fans. Sticking their heads in the sand won't make their games any better and it's a shame to see this fine company go this way. The amount of what people had problems with that is attributed to EA's influence I don't know. I'm also inclined to think any of influence EA had on the project was probably bad.

This Video is one I agree with on the game as a whole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBETU-uOGh8
This is the response to Colin Moriarty's response to "gamer entitlement"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz8_j-ebfaI
This is appeal to ridicule right, but whatever I still think it's valid.

On to the other topic, the Teenage Alien Turtles will probably just be ignored in the future and done over again anyway. It's Michael Bay so it's going to be bad but sell well for no apparent reason.

penguindude42:

galaith100:
I find it so ironic that Bob's generation is complaining about change in TMNT when their version was watered down, butchered, and badly animated. And the TMNT movie was tied to the 2003 cartoon (the better one), not the other movies.

Pretty much this. And Mass Effect is a terrible series due to being produced by a Bioware ravaged by EA, rather than by one working with Sega or by an independent one. #LiberateBioware

You mean Microsoft Studios. It's like EA or Activision, except there are no attachments to the money it throws at your face.

Draech:

TornadoADV:
Patronized by somebody who knows nothing about what's going on and is more then happy to feed into the gamer stereotype about being entitled and bratty. God forbid me as a consumer has the right to hold a company to some sort of standard.

Well that is at least an attempt at a less silly arguement than than "Retake ME" try to present.

If it is a case of breach of contract then you go something semi reasonable, but it would require you to apply the same passion to all breaches of contract since the medium should be irrelevant.

I find that it is (or that I do). But I have rarely gotten something that I thought was good or was told was good and then it turned out not to be so. I think ME3 exposes a larger issue of how video games are released, by the very fact that everybody says that 99% of the game is awesome, but the important 1% (You know, the ending) is completely and utterly incomprehensible shit that destroys not only the character mythos but invalidates the player's involvement in the series.

How can a game get perfect scores and nobody except those that reviewed after release date mentions this? Because it exposes a conflict of interest between game reviewers and game companies.

MovieBob:
Mutants and Masses

MovieBob goes into detail about the difference between artists and fans.

Watch Video

So,you just want us to shut up and take it? NO. Just no. I'll voice my opinion if I want,thank you very much. I just didn't expect you of all people,to say something so stupid,so arrogant. You ever heard of Sherlock Holmes? He died once. He's better now,but the reasoning behind the reappearance? The fans. I like and respect you,Bob,but you haven't played the games,and well,know next to nothing (broad claim,I know,but you haven't proved otherwise) about Mass Effect. You can do better,Bob. If you can persuade me that One More Day isn't as bad as people say it is,then....yeah.

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