The Big Picture: Shell Shock

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT
 

DVS BSTrD:
You won't call him Dr. Eggman for the same reason we won't call that ending Mass Effect.

...What?! I grew up in a Nintendo house during the 90's and still think Dr. Eggman is a stupid name.

---

I knew the comics were different but I never actually read any of them. Most of my info from them comes from cracked anyway and my mind was a little bit blown when I read about the Shredder arc. Honestly all I'd like to see from the movie is a good film-adaptation of Bebop and Rocksteady but I don't know if those characters were big in the last iteration of the show. It would also be cool to see a Shredder who doesn't remind me of a duck (sorry but in the movies his mask/helm looked like something out of Duck-Tales to me).

My mind is a little blown by the Mr. Freeze thing though: I watched the Adam West show as a kid and don't remember ever seeing the guy.

3 things:

-Thank you Bob for explaining the "Everyone's Raphael" art - that bugged the hell out of me when I was a kid.

-I admit I was (and still am to some extent) part of the rage against the "alien" origins, largely due to my growing up with 80's cartoon. But having heard the director's explanation that it coincides with the comics and is actual canon to some degree, I honestly feel bad about being pissed with them: I thought they were changing it because the studio simply didn't care what they made and were using this debacle as a way bring in new people not already familiar with the Turtles (and get free publicity). Am I still skeptical about this being good? Sure, but not as much as before.

-Suggestion Bob - since everyone is talking about "Eggman" now, I think it might be interesting to segway into Sonic next. And here's something weird that I think warrants discussion: I was thumbing through an Archies Sonic comic at a supermarket and came to a part at the end where Robotnik was apparently killed and a storeroom filled with HUNDREDS of Robotnik clones, each with their own design, activates the redesigned Robotnik we know as Eggman in current versions. My one question at least for now - was this strictly the comic's way of introducing Eggman to American audiences and retconning Robotnik, or are there really several clones that Sonic will have to deal with at some point?

DVS BSTrD:

Dr. Witticism:

DVS BSTrD:
Hey Bob I got a proposal for you: We'll admit we weren't into the underground comics first when YOU admit you had ZERO understanding of "that other thing mentioned" in last week's episode. Deal?

You won't call him Dr. Eggman for the same reason we won't call that ending Mass Effect.

Holy shit. It took a lot of courage for him to post last week's video on here, regardless of whether or not you agree with his opinion. Do we now have to make non-Mass Effect threads into Mass Effect threads as well, now? Please just stop already. Go create a separate thread like all the other ME3 threads. There are so many already; we don't need people to hijack non-ME3 threads now.

Plus, the two examples aren't in any way similar. ME3's ending was made by the same people, based on the same universe, and incorporated the same characters and elements from the first two. There are no other versions of Mass Effect. There are no preceding comics or other Mass Effect things from other mediums or times. That's it.

I think you're confusing courage with hypocrisy, or did I miss the part in Going Green where he DIDN'T applaud Jeff John's "caving into" fan pressure and ret-conning Hall Jordan's transformation into Parallax?

And as for "preceding" material for Mass Effect? Try the preceding games, novels or even the rest of ME3 excluding the last 10 minutes. It's not that the story was transplanted from another medium or given to different creators, but that, like with changing Robotnik's name to Eggman, they made it into something that it wasn't.

Just a point of order here: The Kyle Rayner "Green Lantern" lasted a DECADE, and while HEAT probably claims a certain amount of credit for the retcon, it was Geoff Johns - a fan who worked his way up to be an official DC Wrtier - who CHOSE to bring Hal back.

Hazy992:

Axolotl:
Wait a minute a here, there's one thing I don't understand:

Are there really a significant number of people who care about TMNT?

What year were you born? No I'm being serious because TMNT was the shit in the 80's and 90's.

I know it was popular then, I just can't grasp why anyone cares about it now. I mean I get caring about today's pop culture stuff and I get caring about the great works of the past but I just cannot understand why people give a damn about the pop trash of the past. Hell I can sort of get why people might want to go back and experience/revisit the franchise from back when it was something, but why care what they do with it now? It's time has passed, that Hollywood is making a film of it should merely highlight their own idiocy and artistic bankruptcy. But somehow there are people who care, I just don't get that. Why? Why care now?

Axolotl:

Hazy992:

Axolotl:
Wait a minute a here, there's one thing I don't understand:

Are there really a significant number of people who care about TMNT?

What year were you born? No I'm being serious because TMNT was the shit in the 80's and 90's.

I know it was popular then, I just can't grasp why anyone cares about it now. I mean I get caring about today's pop culture stuff and I get caring about the great works of the past but I just cannot understand why people give a damn about the pop trash of the past. Hell I can sort of get why people might want to go back and experience/revisit the franchise from back when it was something, but why care what they do with it now? It's time has passed, that Hollywood is making a film of it should merely highlight their own idiocy and artistic bankruptcy. But somehow there are people who care, I just don't get that. Why? Why care now?

I dunno they just do. If it was a big part of their childhood memories then they're bound to remember it arent they?

Dr Robotnik's actually always been called Eggman D=

In the Japanese release, he was literally called Eggman, they changed it to "Dr Ovi Robotnik" for the European and American release to avoid a lawsuit from the Beatles (the name comes from the song "I am the Walrus"). It's a combination of Latin and (I think) Polish, and literally translates into English as "Egg Man". Fun fact, that!

Though, I will agree that Robotnik is a much cooler name. Why they changed it in the newer stuff to match the Japanese versions is a mystery. Though, the newer stuff is a mystery in itself, I guess.

(*sigh* when recreational time travel is finally invented, I think I'm going to spend all my holidays in the 90s...)

MovieBob:

DVS BSTrD:

Dr. Witticism:

Holy shit. It took a lot of courage for him to post last week's video on here, regardless of whether or not you agree with his opinion. Do we now have to make non-Mass Effect threads into Mass Effect threads as well, now? Please just stop already. Go create a separate thread like all the other ME3 threads. There are so many already; we don't need people to hijack non-ME3 threads now.

Plus, the two examples aren't in any way similar. ME3's ending was made by the same people, based on the same universe, and incorporated the same characters and elements from the first two. There are no other versions of Mass Effect. There are no preceding comics or other Mass Effect things from other mediums or times. That's it.

I think you're confusing courage with hypocrisy, or did I miss the part in Going Green where he DIDN'T applaud Jeff John's "caving into" fan pressure and ret-conning Hall Jordan's transformation into Parallax?

And as for "preceding" material for Mass Effect? Try the preceding games, novels or even the rest of ME3 excluding the last 10 minutes. It's not that the story was transplanted from another medium or given to different creators, but that, like with changing Robotnik's name to Eggman, they made it into something that it wasn't.

Just a point of order here: The Kyle Rayner "Green Lantern" lasted a DECADE, and while HEAT probably claims a certain amount of credit for the retcon, it was Geoff Johns - a fan who worked his way up to be an official DC Wrtier - who CHOSE to bring Hal back.

Don't tell us we set back gaming ten years when OUR favorite stories and characters get trampled on and the "official" creators CHOSE to address OUR grievances quicker than Valve time. This isn't a transformation story ark we could've had some decent justification or explanation. This is a NON-conclusion born of a NON-choice the director "says" he put in just to be controversial. It doesn't fit with the way Mass Effect tells it's story at all. It's made all the more personal by the fact that we had been repeatedly told that the choices WE had made in the game would effect the story's outcome, That's NOT what we got Bob. It's not that we got a unhappy ending like Hal did (Hal had a Good reason to turn evil), we didn't get a WORTHY ending. Hell have you even heard of the Indoctrination theory? The very PREMISE of that is that Shepard was brainwashed into submitting to them, and the the final choice is actually a hallucination. FANS WOULD RATHER BELIEVE SHEPARD FAILED THAN ACCEPT THE ENDING BIOWARE GAVE THEM. And the fact Bioware caved so quickly implies that they had already planned for this. In other words, deliberately withholding the REAL conclusion to the Mass Effect story just to milk the fans. Along with all the other crap Bioware pulled with this game, can you understand why we would be a liiiiiiiiiiiitle upset by this?

Although how exactly would you do Krang in live action?

I'd say it's the combination of:

-A recognizable brand that has an established fan base or the potential to create a new one.

-Nostalgia being a very powerful influence on emotion and judgment.

-The allure of film, specifically live-action, making something that can never actually happen seem possible.

Speaking of properties you did not know were based on comics...

image

The incredibly dark and fucked-up version that was more horror than comedy.

image

The movie and the comic are pretty similar, except about the intentions of the main character. In the movie, he's damned himself to be a bad person, but in the comic he's more concerned with the Catholic notion of sin and redemption as he lights candles and confesses for every person he kills.

After last week, I think it was smart to go with the TMNT topic and not "the other topic." Heaven knows I'm still sore about it.

I think part of the problem with TMNT is Michael Bay's track record with Transformers. The success (box office wise) of that franchise means that Bay can go ahead with the same kind of formula as Transformers. The title change may have triggered a pre-emptive reaction because now all us nostalgia-tinged grown-ups are expecting TMNT to go the same route. With the first movies, we did okay (until, you know, the third one... or the second one, in my opinion). Now we're all afraid that Michael Bay will "Bay it up."

There's a few more points that I could make about fan influence on "art" based on what you've said in the video, but we're going to let that dog lie (though obviously other commenters aren't so restrained).

Huh, I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't care about Micheal Bay's live action turtle rendition cause even as a kid I knew the old movies sucked. Of course, I never saw really saw any of the old series.

DVS BSTrD:

MovieBob:

DVS BSTrD:
I think you're confusing courage with hypocrisy, or did I miss the part in Going Green where he DIDN'T applaud Jeff John's "caving into" fan pressure and ret-conning Hall Jordan's transformation into Parallax?

And as for "preceding" material for Mass Effect? Try the preceding games, novels or even the rest of ME3 excluding the last 10 minutes. It's not that the story was transplanted from another medium or given to different creators, but that, like with changing Robotnik's name to Eggman, they made it into something that it wasn't.

Just a point of order here: The Kyle Rayner "Green Lantern" lasted a DECADE, and while HEAT probably claims a certain amount of credit for the retcon, it was Geoff Johns - a fan who worked his way up to be an official DC Wrtier - who CHOSE to bring Hal back.

Don't tell us we set back gaming ten years when OUR favorite stories and characters get trampled on and the "official" creators CHOSE to address OUR grievances quicker than Valve time. This isn't a transformation story ark we could've had some decent justification or explanation. This is a NON-conclusion born of a NON-choice the director "says" he put in just to be controversial. It doesn't fit with the way Mass Effect tells it's story at all. It's made all the more personal by the fact that we had been repeatedly told that the choices WE had made in the game would effect the story's outcome, That's NOT what we got Bob. It's not that we got a unhappy ending like Hal did (Hal had a Good reason to turn evil), we didn't get a WORTHY ending. Hell have you even heard of the Indoctrination theory? The very PREMISE of that is that Shepard was brainwashed into submitting to them, and the the final choice is actually a hallucination. FANS WOULD RATHER BELIEVE SHEPARD FAILED THAN ACCEPT THE ENDING BIOWARE GAVE THEM. And the fact Bioware caved so quickly implies that they had already planned for this. In other words, deliberately withholding the REAL conclusion to the Mass Effect story just to milk the fans. Along with all the other crap Bioware pulled with this game, can you understand why we would be a liiiiiiiiiiiitle upset by this?

Ugh, great. Now it's a conspiracy theory. I hate it when people think they know what others are thinking based on specious arguments and unsubstantiated conclusions.

The only thing that pisses me off is that they're making them aliens, not turtles mutated by ooze (even if the ooze was extraterrestrial). Honestly I don't care about other things, I always view movies like alternate comic lines like Marvel's Ultimates or something like Age Of Apocalypse. I don't care if they mess with a lot of things because when it comes to comics their backgrounds can be so convoluted and heavily retconned that there is no right way to do it. Add to that the easiest way to do it is an origin story and I don't care about that. I just look at comic book movies like a non-canon miniseries.

Come to think of it, how many non-sequel superhero movies have there been that weren't origins stories? X-Men is the only one I can think of and that was framed around Rogue's origin and Wolverine's entrance into the X-Men. Maybe some of the older ones that I've not seen but all of the post Raimi's Spiderman movies have been origin stories.

Im a huge fan of the 1990 film...probably just nostalga but it had a certain gritty realism

*sigh* YES...I know Im talking about gritty realism in regards to TMNT

didnt like the 2007 movie though....

I read the archie comic book tmnt, and had no idea what was going on.

I was into the comic at roughly the same time that I was into the show as a kid. This is not because I was hip or into underground comics on the whole or anything like that; my dad just happened to own the first volume and I noticed it on the shelf. I remember it as being pretty good. Was a bit too young to "get" the camp/over the top elements were meant to not be taken seriously, though.

Daverson:
Dr Robotnik's actually always been called Eggman D=

In the Japanese release, he was literally called Eggman, they changed it to "Dr Ovi Robotnik" for the European and American release to avoid a lawsuit from the Beatles (the name comes from the song "I am the Walrus"). It's a combination of Latin and (I think) Polish, and literally translates into English as "Egg Man". Fun fact, that!

While it's true that the original Japanese name is Eggman, Robotnik doesn't mean Eggman. It means "worker" in Polish.

I think it's important to remember that the examples you've used in the Batman-verse were mostly villain related changes that were made gradually over time. The core origin story for Batman never really changed. (I'm not sure but I believe originally Batman didn't have a concrete origin so to speak, this was added in later to give him more depth). Though my main point here is they took some unpopular characters, redesigned them and stuck them back into the comics/TV show. These revised characters ended up being much better than their original counterparts.

I'm well aware of the alien involvement in the TMNT series. The main point is the aliens mostly remained in the background with regards to direct contact with the turtles. A lot of this backlash does stem form Micheal Bay's involvement. His track record with the Transformers franchise just makes anything he says sound like an absolutely terrible idea. For Micheal Bay to announce straight up that the Ninja Turtles will have alien origins, while changing the name to remove Teenage and Mutant from the title immediately tells us that this re-boot is going to drastically change the origin story of the main characters.

"I will never ever call this person Eggman"
I love you, Bob.

I'm not concerned that Michael Bay is going to rape any "canonical" or "nostalgic" version of the Ninja Turtles. I've seen adaptations of older franchises that "get" the point of the original without sacrificing their own vision for market appeal.

I'm concerned that Michael Bay is going rape the Ninja Turtles in the same grotesque manner he and his cronies rape every franchise they touch: with abysmally bad writing, an over-reliance on blunt-force trauma "humor/comic relief", nauseating cinematography or the most hyperactive editing in the business. (combine elements as appropriate)

And worst of all: They make a mint so they can keep doing it. That's the real sin.

personally I would like to see a re-do of the 90's version but with *puts up flame shield* venus added in from that short lived live action version I liked her :P

also i call him both eggman and Dr Robotnik I usually use eggman in text but call him Dr Robotnik when actually talking because its easier to type eggman also it drives a friend who is a rabid sonic fan nuts (he never played the classic games only the new crap fest stuff after he saw the anime so he hates the use of the older name mahahahaha also he drives me nuts as i played the classics and grew up on the cartoon)

Scott Warren:
i was into the original underground comic first.....and then the rpg. so yeah i'm old.

Scratch that, reverse it, and that's me. I also am old. You ever read the Mark Martin specials? That got me into GnatRat and parody comics in general.

What a great RPG it was though, although the first edition (which I had) was almost crippled by an arcane skills system that turned away a lot of potential players. We played the HELL out of the Road Hogs expansion.

first rpg series my group consistantly played was the paldium games series starting with TMNT in early 1986 we couldnt get our hands on the comics where i lived despite trying. the old rpg was illustrated with things from the comics.

what im about to say isnt meant to offend anyone who loved the animated series. but the moment that appeared we didnt touch the rpg anymore the turtles went from cool,edgy and violent to a kids cartoon. haha i still remember sitting down to watch the first ep with my group.. "whats this shit? why do they have different colours? probably so kids can tell the difference. you guys want to swap to AD&D now? yep"

I first saw them as role playing game in my first year at high school. Some guy I ended up sitting next to was reading them and I wondered what the hell it was.

Now I know there are comics I might go out and find them. Reading The Walking Dead now too after seeing the TV series.

Hey what about the newish TMNT movie, you forgot to mention that one, my memory of it is a bit schewed by time but I vaguely remembering it to be Good enough to have fun over.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0453556/

But... Dr Eggman is the character's ORIGIONAL NAME!!!

We need to stick to canon, always! Robotnick was origionally a typo by some idiot translator with no time left to spare!

Just kidding, I have no idea if any of that is true but I'm sure I had someone going right there. They definitely called him Dr Eggman in the Japanese games, but that's probably just because English is "cool" and the game designers didn't think about how stupid it would sound to us English speakers.

I for one hope they change everything about this movie, make them no longer teenage, mutant or turtles. Make it geriatric cyborg ninja walruses, then no one will care, actually I think that ship has already sailed. Why do people keep giving Michael Bay money to make movies?

SoopaSte123:

Also, I cringe every time someone says "Dr. Eggman". Ughhhh...

It's the name he was given by Sonic Team back in 1991, deal with it. :P Robotnik is an invention of Sega of America when writing the English manual.

Having flicked through 4 pages of comments, I think I will highlight some things...

1) Bob does admit to having little understanding about the ME games, he just did on his OTHER webseries at screwattack.com. Googling 'Crass Effect' should link you to his vid.

2) Robotnik vs. Eggman is two opposing lores that were forced to combine with the internet, also on Moviebob's other webseries at screwattack.com, the videos are to do with Sonic the Hedgehog.

3) Alien Origin, nice deflection you didn't raise this point up at all. However, I have no objection to the TMNT being mutated by an alien ooze. That is fine, BUT

When you make the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles into aliens you negate virtually the entire title. Since they are aliens and we don't know how they normally age, we cannot say for certain they are tenage, it is just assument. They are no longre mutants, as that is how the actually look, and the same goes for the Turtles as well. So we are left with ... 'Ninjas'. Nice one Michael, well done.

What I would like to see Michael is how you are going to force into the movie the American Armed Forces and their arsenal, a goofy human character to relate to (who I think most people would like to beat to death with his goofy grin) and Robots.

...
...

I fear that Shia laGoof will find Four aliens with inexplicable Ninja skills. They have been sent to Earth due to a war on their Homeworld spilling over onto this one (Another war should blend right in). They are fighting another alien that is making robots who are like Ninja. He heads up the FOOT Corporation (FOOT being an acronym ending with 'Technology')

The evil CEO is nicknamed 'the Shredder', due to his ruthless taking over of other companies, who is creating two super-robots Project named Rocksteady and Be-bop respectively. The robots go on violent rampage 'forcing' the Army to swoop in and save the day while the Turtles (in the 25 mins they are actually in the movie) confront Shredder in his super secret office that looks like something from medieval Japan. Ninjas fight, Shredder flees.

April O'Neill coining the nickname 'Shredder' will be a down and out beautiful weather girl wanting her first big scoop, who will be about as ditzy as a perceived Playboy Bunny, with body to match.

...

MovieBob's other series (in case you actually read all of this) is Game Overthinker, and it is very well done... though the direction he took it in is ... different.

Storm Dragon:
Something that always bugged me about the Turtles: They are marketed primarily towards children, and thus aren't allowed to use intentionally lethal violence, but Leonardo and Raphael use katanas and sais, weapons that have a slight tendency towards lethality.

That's why in the cartoons, they never actually used their weapons outside what Naruto fans call "Plot-No-Jutsu".

They punched and kicked instead.

OT: Whatever Bay does with TMNT will be awful. This much is certain.

But do the world a favor Bob... don't ever talk about games. Ever. For the remainder of your days on this Earth. Because it is quite clear you have no clue what you are saying. Period. Your hypocrisy, arrogance, and general lack of tact are staggering.

I can live with you saying that "people who watched the Expendables shouldn't be allowed to vote" or "People who saw Fast Five are morons", because movies are your job. But not games.

Scott Warren:
i was into the original underground comic first.....and then the rpg. so yeah i'm old.

Me too.
That RPG was awsome; one of the Palladium games if I recall correctly. I Think I played more Palladium than D&D between TMNT, Fantasy, and Rifts.

However, as a fan of the original comics, I feel we got pretty good fan service with that recent cartoon series (I especially liked the episode where the different generations all got introduced to each other) so I too would like to see what would happen at this point if they made a movie based on the goofy old cartoon. Otherwise it would probably just be a remake of the original movie.

The thing is, they wouldn't really be making it for kids at this point would they?

octafish:

Scott Warren:
i was into the original underground comic first.....and then the rpg. so yeah i'm old.

Scratch that, reverse it, and that's me. I also am old. You ever read the Mark Martin specials? That got me into GnatRat and parody comics in general.

What a great RPG it was though, although the first edition (which I had) was almost crippled by an arcane skills system that turned away a lot of potential players. We played the HELL out of the Road Hogs expansion.

cerebus was my first indy, then love and rockets and the turtles.....road hogs was awesome but nothing beat mutants in avalon. all those books though, gonna have to go dig em out. the character designs were bad ass. That animal farm in reverse adventure and the evil bears from the source book...awesome stuff....and then you could get the other palladium books and make god characters....super powered akido weasels and all that. good stuff. However i can see that I'm not the market for the film....and the turtles were stolen from me by a dumbass cartoon like two decades ago so no big loss....anybody ever go to their words and pictures museum back in the day?? good times.

I kinda wish more people were in to the excellent 2003 series- I just prefer the franchise when there's only one Michelangelo, and not four different flavours of him.
I mean, I grew up with the 80's series too, and I'll still watch episodes every now and then, when the mood takes me- but I don't think it's the right direction for TMNT.

EDIT: I have a question, though- why does the third movie get so much hatred from the fanbase? More importantly, why does it get *more* hatred than the second movie? I firmly believe that "Ninja Rap" was the low point of the entire TMNT multiverse.

EDIT2: But, then, opinions are a thing too.

In my opinion the franchise has to be reinvented and adjusted to the current audience to be successful. If it doesn't it will have the same problems as John Carter: only fans will care and the movie will flop big times!

vxicepickxv:
Once again, when you show your knowledge on a subject that's interesting, it makes for a rather enlightening episode.

What knowledge? This is something one could cobble up together from wikipedia in five minutes, followed by Bob's usual condescending rant about how "you kids" are just wrong, how fans and fanboys don't get it like his "professional" view does.

He even throws in a backhanded "oh, you kids, concentrating on that OTHER thing that totally doesn't matter", despite spending a good portion of the last episode talking about how people are brutes, uncivilized idiots drooling at the mouth because of it.

 Pages PREV 1 2 3 4 5 NEXT

Reply to Thread

Log in or Register to Comment
Have an account? Login below:
With Facebook:Login With Facebook
or
Username:  
Password:  
  
Not registered? To sign up for an account with The Escapist:
Register With Facebook
Register With Facebook
or
Register for a free account here