Kids Today

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Kids Today

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Ye gods, someone who thinks my generation isn't a bunch of fucking idiots. That's so refreshing that the fact that it is so refreshing makes me want to cry.

It reminds me a little bit of last year's unfortunately flawed but more unfortunately misunderstood Sucker Punch in that both are exceptionally energetic rule-breaker movies made by filmmakers whose enthusiasm and ambitions may ultimately outstrip their technical discipline.

I was thinking more:

When fetish porn and rape fantasies get a competent director.

Don't let your wife write the movie just because you're a director.

The physics of cartoons, the humor of physics.

Lost in Translation was tolerated and praised because we didn't spend several million on it.

The worst way to present anime to Western audiences since Tekken: Blood Vengeance.

Characterize owls before you characterize a woman's diary, they at least make sense.

Myrmecodon:

It reminds me a little bit of last year's unfortunately flawed but more unfortunately misunderstood Sucker Punch in that both are exceptionally energetic rule-breaker movies made by filmmakers whose enthusiasm and ambitions may ultimately outstrip their technical discipline.

I was thinking more:

When fetish porn and rape fantasies get a competent director.

Don't let your wife write the movie just because you're a director.

The physics of cartoons, the humor of physics.

Lost in Translation was tolerated and praised because we didn't spend several million on it.

The worst way to present anime to Western audiences since Tekken: Blood Vengeance.

Characterize owls before you characterize a woman's diary, they at least make sense.

I don't get it. I think your post is too deep for me.

It reminds me a little bit of last year's unfortunately flawed but more unfortunately misunderstood Sucker Punch in that both are exceptionally energetic rule-breaker movies made by filmmakers whose enthusiasm and ambitions may ultimately outstrip their technical discipline.

Actually I thought it was very simple to understand... that it was shit...

Thanks for the heads-up, Bob. I usually don't care much about films so I always feel like a cheat when I skip to the good ones because of you. (Then again they usually don't open here in Brazil anyway.)

Captcha is asking me to describe the brand 'banksy'. Banksy is a brand? If he's sold out, I think we can abandon all hope. Whatever, give me a new one, captcha.

So we are generation Y? Okay. Good to know. Wait. What do we call the next generation after generation Z?

Anyway, the movie looks neat. I really don't like slasher movies, but this one doesn't look like it's completely like that so I'll wait and see. I'll probably see it one way or another even if I don't see it in theaters.

Thanks Bob.

I actually swore at the screen when he said he likes generation Y more than nineties kids. More on topic, this does actually sound kinda awesome

The only difference between kids of today, and kids of yesterday is how informed they are.

This actually sounds like an entertaining film. And it certainly is refreshing to see someone going with the point of view that kids today AREN'T all rapist homophobic antisocial bastards.

Namewithheld:
Ye gods, someone who thinks my generation isn't a bunch of fucking idiots. That's so refreshing that the fact that it is so refreshing makes me want to cry.

@ Namewithheld: Teenagers are almost always hated by their elders in pretty much every generation. Part of the reason is that teenagers are pretty much universally and trans-culturally hormonal and melodramatic and therefore annoying to anyone who isn't hormonal and melodramatic throughout all generations. However in the past century they've started to get more and more of their own slice of the media so the annoyance is increased exponentially.

OT: I've got to say that I disagree wholeheartedly with Kahn on two essential points:

1) People are not sponges, and intelligence is not measured by how quickly you absorb information. Intelligence is measured by what you DO with the information you absorb. Intelligence is the synthetic recombination of absorbed ideas into novel ideas. It is creative. This is why computers have great abilities to store and recall information but suck at thinking. This is why AI is still a largely theoretical idea that has been exceptionally hard to create. People who are great at absorbing things at high speeds aren't necessarily going to be any better at thinking. In fact, the recombination of ideas (i.e. creative thinking) usually requires slow, linear and attentive focus. So if anything, the fact that teenagers these days are being conditioned to quickly absorb information might actually inhibit their ability to think slowly and critically. While the greater competence with technology and the greater flow of ideas brought about by the internet are good things, the fact that people aren't being trained to think slowly and critically is exceptionally bad.

2)Kahn seems to buy into the fallacy of progressivisim wholeheartedly:

Joseph Kahn:
You are the least racist, least sexist, least homophobic, least everything ... you f***ing love a black president. You are the most progressive people ever on the history of the planet.

Values change over time, but this doesn't mean that they are moving toward the greater Good in some sort of Hegelian Zeitgeist. The values that Kahn mentions are all values of tolerance. While there are definitely a lot of strong positive effects of tolerance as a value system (i.e. it allows everyone to coexist more peacefully in a democratic society), it can go too far. Once you realize the fallacious nature of historical progressivism, you come to realize that a progressive tendency towards tolerance/moral permissiveness can ultimately lead to things that we would currently reject. (Though things like bestiality and pedophilia will in all likelihood still be rejected on the grounds that neither animals nor children can give consent.)

Ultimately tolerance has been promoted as a value system because it acts as a lubricant for a democratic society. This does not make it the ultimate good (primarily because there is no such thing). If we are to be Nietzscheans, we must engage in a transvaluation of values. When we trace back the genealogy and telic cause of the virtue 'tolerance', we find that it serves the overall functionality of society by disvaluing the values of the individual; hence that it sublimates individual will to the collective "will" (in a broader, non-psychological sense) of society. Is this a good thing? Well, it serves the ends of peace as well as the consequentialist obsession with eudaimonism. But I, for one, value the will and autonomy of the individual over the fluid function of society and the hedonistic considerations of utopia-seeking ideologues. War, conflict and suffering are prices I am willing to pay for the kind of intellectual, cultural and artistic greatness that can only be produced by the strong independent will of the 'higher man' (which, unlike Nietzsche, I believe also includes women). As Nietzsche put it, compromise is "the virtue that makes small".

MovieBob:
I don't know that I share Kahn's boundless enthusiasm for the prospects of Generation Y

Okay, I'm going a bit off-topic, but "Generation Y"? Are we still using that to talk about kids in school? I was called a Generation Y kid when I went to school back in the nineties. People not even born then are starting to look for colleges or have kids of their own. I kinda assumed we were at Z. Y'know, the first generation who never saw a world without cellphones or internet?

And I hope that, however unlikely, whoever thought it would be a good idea to start the whole "Generation LETTER" thing on X is going to be alive to see the inevitable Generation Z-2 or whatever crap we'll come up with.

Slightly more on topic; It is nice to see someone who's not falling into the trap of complaining about whatever generation that came after the one they're from. It's never very sexy.

Sounds like an interesting movie, and I certainly find his take on Columbine and similar situations interesting. Does anyone have any idea what the book he is referencing might be?

Hey Bob, you say at the end of every article you're a critic and filmmaker. I never heard of any film you made. Where can I watch them?

Or do you count videos on Youtbe and Escapist films?

MovieBob:

You may not want to get out of this Detention.

For some reason this movie reminds me of this bad terminator knockoff I saw in the 90s. About a gang of "school" kids and what I presumed to be ex-military robots used in place of teachers. Ended about as well as you can imagine. Can't remember the name of it or if I got the plot right, I drift in and out of movies that do a poor job of holding my attention.

N.B. Its a good thing you mentioned Dane Cook last, my attention started to drift when I read his name.

ReiverCorrupter:
hate to snip but..

How do I give this person "internetz" and where do I acquire more for the same purpose?

Pretty much ninja'd my response to the article, except that you managed to make it eloquent.

"I'll take a movie that's perhaps trying too hard to be different over all the others that try too hard to be the same." - Moviebob, Kids Today

I agree with you Mr. Chipman, well, to a point. I am weary of filmmakers, however, who try to be different "for the sake of it." I've followed your work for awhile and have noticed a trend to praise artists, or at the very least to readily acknowledge talent, when the output seems to be doing something new or different.

On the surface this is a great outlook; we need to appreciate the flawed attempts to work outside the given boundaries of a medium. But, at the same time, you need also appreciate what the "normal" or "commercial" films do right as well. Otherwise your bias is fairly blatant and, from a critical standpoint, your neutrality is diminished or erased entirely.

My general point here is simply to say that I feel you push the obscurity factor a little too far. Sometimes a film that is trying to be different does it in ways that are just bad, or they fail outright.

In the end, this may all come down to the fact that you see a little good in Sucker Punch, and I, on the other hand, think it was a terrible, terrible film.

Great article nonetheless!

Oh, and a side note:

Anoni Mus:
Hey Bob, you say at the end of every article you're a critic and filmmaker. I never heard of any film you made. Where can I watch them?

Or do you count videos on Youtbe and Escapist films?

Go here Anoni: gameoverthinker.blogspot.ca

Yeah, American teenagers are WAY more educated and cultured than their 90's counterparts. That's why they consistently test among third world countries in nearly every subject imaginable.

I don't hate the kids today. I hate their parents for raising them on the frenetic, nonsensical, incoherent, stream-of consciousness, kitsch garbage that this guy has spent his entire career manufacturing. The fact that their kids are vapid, shallow, uneducated slobs with all the culture of a petri dish is an unfortunately coincidence.

PhiMed:
Yeah, American teenagers are WAY more educated and cultured than their 90's counterparts. That's why they consistently test among third world countries in nearly every subject imaginable.

I don't hate the kids today. I hate their parents for raising them on the frenetic, nonsensical, incoherent, stream-of consciousness, kitsch garbage that this guy has spent his entire career manufacturing. The fact that their kids are vapid, shallow, uneducated slobs with all the culture of a petri dish is an unfortunately coincidence.

Hear fucking hear!!

I can't believe people the amount of nonsensical bullshit coming from this dude. Ya know why I want a zombie apocalypse? This d bag and all the hipsters like him will be the first eaten.

This film might be worth a look.

However this notion that the MEs are more educated, more informed or more anything is completely baseless.

Heres the problem. Because the MEs have such access to such information They are much more prone to scanning it and retaining little or nothing of it. Why bother? You can just look it up again if you need to.

The second thing is the reliance on the Internet. Because we all know just how reliable information is from the internet, right?

So. I wont preclude the possible quality of a film maker who seemingly only knows how to talk out his ass. If I did that, I prolly would not have played any of the fable games, but I did, and I was pleasantly surprised. Hoping this might do the same.

Sounds interesting.

Sucker punch is still a bad movie, I understood it perfectly well as did most of its audience. Its no where near as deep or intellectual as it trys to make out.

008Zulu:

MovieBob:

You may not want to get out of this Detention.

For some reason this movie reminds me of this bad terminator knockoff I saw in the 90s. About a gang of "school" kids and what I presumed to be ex-military robots used in place of teachers. Ended about as well as you can imagine. Can't remember the name of it or if I got the plot right, I drift in and out of movies that do a poor job of holding my attention.

N.B. Its a good thing you mentioned Dane Cook last, my attention started to drift when I read his name.

class of 1999.

Batsamaritan:
class of 1999.

Oh, right. How close was I on the plot?

Batsamaritan:
Sucker punch is still a bad movie, I understood it perfectly well as did most of its audience. Its no where near as deep or intellectual as it tries to make out.

Personally it confused me. Not the plot of the movie,

but how it was executed That's not deep, that's needlessly confusing. I get the "how", just not the "why".

Oh no! Whiny Emo Supermodels are stuck in a mental institution! I'm so emotionally invested!

PhiMed:
The fact that their kids are vapid, shallow, uneducated slobs with all the culture of a petri dish is an unfortunately coincidence.

Thank you. Thank you so much.
I'm sorry but this is an affront to both myself as a product of the current generation and my parents. I've been raised to have wide interests and to think critically.
I read the news. I have an interest in history. I try to expand my cultural and intellectual pursuits regularly.

I am not vapid or shallow and I resent that my generation is being written of as such.
We are kids, and we have just as much of a mix of intelligence and idiocy as the last generation.

Robert Ewing:
The only difference between kids of today, and kids of yesterday is how informed they are.

as long as its the length of a twitter update. how many times have we all seen "TL/DR" as someones comment.

3quency:

PhiMed:
The fact that their kids are vapid, shallow, uneducated slobs with all the culture of a petri dish is an unfortunately coincidence.

Thank you. Thank you so much.
I'm sorry but this is an affront to both myself as a product of the current generation and my parents. I've been raised to have wide interests and to think critically.
I read the news. I have an interest in history. I try to expand my cultural and intellectual pursuits regularly.

I am not vapid or shallow and I resent that my generation is being written of as such.
We are kids, and we have just as much of a mix of intelligence and idiocy as the last generation.

frankly its people like you that give me hope for this generation

Apparently this guy doesn't get around much. Or ever use the internet. The ME3 business is a perfect example of how wrong he is.

since apparently this is new to some of you: People are pretty much the same wherever you go and whatever time period they are from (forward or back), this is one of the fundamentals of human nature and has always and will always be the case.

Whatever generation you are, you were exactly as annoying to the previous generations as this one is to you.

You should know this by now.

And also, twitter is largely used by adults with jobs (and so less time to post long comments). Teens only make up like 25% of twitter, so its actually the older generations that are to blame for that.

Dane cook isn't in it all that much, AND it resembles Sucker Punch in any way?!

Maybe I'll pass after all...

edit:

ReiverCorrupter:

Namewithheld:
Ye gods, someone who thinks my generation isn't a bunch of fucking idiots. That's so refreshing that the fact that it is so refreshing makes me want to cry.

@ Namewithheld: Teenagers are almost always hated by their elders in pretty much every generation. Part of the reason is that teenagers are pretty much universally and trans-culturally hormonal and melodramatic and therefore annoying to anyone who isn't hormonal and melodramatic throughout all generations. However in the past century they've started to get more and more of their own slice of the media so the annoyance is increased exponentially.

OT: I've got to say that I disagree wholeheartedly with Kahn on two essential points:

1) People are not sponges, and intelligence is not measured by how quickly you absorb information. Intelligence is measured by what you DO with the information you absorb. Intelligence is the synthetic recombination of absorbed ideas into novel ideas. It is creative. This is why computers have great abilities to store and recall information but suck at thinking. This is why AI is still a largely theoretical idea that has been exceptionally hard to create. People who are great at absorbing things at high speeds aren't necessarily going to be any better at thinking. In fact, the recombination of ideas (i.e. creative thinking) usually requires slow, linear and attentive focus. So if anything, the fact that teenagers these days are being conditioned to quickly absorb information might actually inhibit their ability to think slowly and critically. While the greater competence with technology and the greater flow of ideas brought about by the internet are good things, the fact that people aren't being trained to think slowly and critically is exceptionally bad.

2)Kahn seems to buy into the fallacy of progressivisim wholeheartedly:

Joseph Kahn:
You are the least racist, least sexist, least homophobic, least everything ... you f***ing love a black president. You are the most progressive people ever on the history of the planet.

Values change over time, but this doesn't mean that they are moving toward the greater Good in some sort of Hegelian Zeitgeist. The values that Kahn mentions are all values of tolerance. While there are definitely a lot of strong positive effects of tolerance as a value system (i.e. it allows everyone to coexist more peacefully in a democratic society), it can go too far. Once you realize the fallacious nature of historical progressivism, you come to realize that a progressive tendency towards tolerance/moral permissiveness can ultimately lead to things that we would currently reject. (Though things like bestiality and pedophilia will in all likelihood still be rejected on the grounds that neither animals nor children can give consent.)

Ultimately tolerance has been promoted as a value system because it acts as a lubricant for a democratic society. This does not make it the ultimate good (primarily because there is no such thing). If we are to be Nietzscheans, we must engage in a transvaluation of values. When we trace back the genealogy and telic cause of the virtue 'tolerance', we find that it serves the overall functionality of society by disvaluing the values of the individual; hence that it sublimates individual will to the collective "will" (in a broader, non-psychological sense) of society. Is this a good thing? Well, it serves the ends of peace as well as the consequentialist obsession with eudaimonism. But I, for one, value the will and autonomy of the individual over the fluid function of society and the hedonistic considerations of utopia-seeking ideologues. War, conflict and suffering are prices I am willing to pay for the kind of intellectual, cultural and artistic greatness that can only be produced by the strong independent will of the 'higher man' (which, unlike Nietzsche, I believe also includes women). As Nietzsche put it, compromise is "the virtue that makes small".

I like this post... I like it all over. I am going to quote it without snips so people will be like "What's this about?" and read it.

008Zulu:

Batsamaritan:
class of 1999.

Oh, right. How close was I on the plot?

pretty dead on. Personally I liked it, it had a troma-esque quality to it thats endearing, certainly after a few beers.

also check out class of 1984. A VERY early michael j fox movie about juvenile delinquents of which the former movie is sort of a sequel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRTwc68O6b8

3quency:

PhiMed:
The fact that their kids are vapid, shallow, uneducated slobs with all the culture of a petri dish is an unfortunately coincidence.

Thank you. Thank you so much.
I'm sorry but this is an affront to both myself as a product of the current generation and my parents. I've been raised to have wide interests and to think critically.
I read the news. I have an interest in history. I try to expand my cultural and intellectual pursuits regularly.

I am not vapid or shallow and I resent that my generation is being written of as such.
We are kids, and we have just as much of a mix of intelligence and idiocy as the last generation.

I have to say that the majority of your generation, or perhaps even the lagely vocal and visible of your generation belie what you say about yourself here. Not that they are the norm, or even the majority, per se.
I knew I was annoying to older people, because I could see it, so I tried to restrict my adult-oriented contact. The problem with many youths coming up in this world now is that it seems that there are either NO moral compass or at the very least a hugely skewed one... If they irritate someone, they laugh and don't care. Really? This is widely and awsomely intelligent? Not intelligence as I've known and/or defined it.
Youtube/Facebook/Twitter/Tumblr/Pinterest are making everything available in snippet sized bits so there's no NEED to really read an article, just watch the video...don't bother reading the book, watch the movie. This not a FAULT of your generation, but they certainly make use of it to excess.
I'm 36 tomorrow, and I've grown up a lot since 1993. I've watched almost 20 years of people (children, teens adults) and the trend of all of them is dumber. The requirements of parents for their children (generally) seems lower than it did ten years ago... and that was lower than the previous decade and so on, ad nauseum.
It just makes me sick and a bit sad to see things like what this director says, personally I feel let down and sad that the current youth generation is so detatched from what makes life worth living. Yet that's objectively selfish of me, I suppose.

Phlakes:
Apparently this guy doesn't get around much. Or ever use the internet. The ME3 business is a perfect example of how wrong he is.

No kidding. Has this guy ever read Youtube comments? Or even browsed Twitter or Facebook? And I'm saying this as an active Facebook and Youtube user who is part of this generation.

Phlakes:
Apparently this guy doesn't get around much. Or ever use the internet. The ME3 business is a perfect example of how wrong he is.

"this guy" being Bob, or Joseph Kahn?

Anyway, to otherwise completely ignore the rest of this thread: Holy crap Kahn has done a lot of music videos!
Muse - "Knights of Cydonia", Blink 182 - "Always", Garbage - "Cherry Lips", Wu-Tang Clan - "Gravel Pit", Korn - "A.D.I.D.A.S.", Jamiroquai - "Feels Just Like It Should" to name a few.
Quite an array of styles, and music genres.

I'm so gonna see this movie when it comes to my country.

Or I'll import the sh*t out of the DVD later.

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